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What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

I keep thinking about London and Vancouver. When the decision was made to get rid of industry so we can have an economy based on real estate instead, did nobody think that people in the places where all of the productive economy went would buy up that real estate?

I guess the answer is that they didn't care, since they're the investors, developers and bankers involved. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. The City of London benefits from London becoming a giant real estate speculation bubble, since they profit more from speculation than production anyway.

e: Like to them, these are capital flows from Russia and China to their real estate markets, using their banks, brokerages, conducted in the currencies they speculate in etc. so Russian billionaires buying up London and Chinese Vancouver was an intended part of the whole thing, they see that is that money entering into their financial system at the top end instead of through the bottom (factories and boring stuff tied to production).

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

good news for Russia then since Taiwan is in China.

fits my needs
Jan 1, 2011

Grimey Drawer
yeah cant they just buy it through china or through intermediary countries like all the other stuff?

Futanari Damacy
Oct 30, 2021

by sebmojo
Making microchips is one of the hardest things you can do, it will be good when production is fully under China's auspice after reunification in a few years

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

fits my needs posted:

yeah cant they just buy it through china or through intermediary countries like all the other stuff?

Yeah, but at a certain point you want self sufficiency rather than have that be a potential future vulnerability. It probably isn’t going to affect the war directly because they aren’t going to be redesigning their systems ( or buying new microphones) but it is going to be more of a long-term trend.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

hey now, don't be so negative. mlp actually learned a new word, showing that even the dumbest among us has the capacity to grow intellectually

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

boutique probably is used to describe his military unit

fits my needs
Jan 1, 2011

Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1643247622998708235?s=20

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

fits my needs posted:

yeah cant they just buy it through china or through intermediary countries like all the other stuff?

That seems like the obvious answer for a lot of things, and it’s what we often see when someone takes apart Russian and Iranian unmanned aircraft, for example.

Other stuff, like warheads, makes a lot more sense to domestically mass produce due to costs, needs, and relative complexity of straw purchasing or smuggling explosives compared to simply making your own.

But a lot of cameras, prop engines, GPS, RAM, other components are easier to smuggle or straw purchases or buy similar counterfeits rather than standing up new domestic factories and workshops to do it.

tazjin
Jul 24, 2015


Danann posted:

This part of a redsails essay describes the Russian comprador just as well as the Western "non-communist left":

This website is full of depressing essays. Better not to read it in the pursuit of hedonism!

fits my needs
Jan 1, 2011

Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1643238325392748544?s=20

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Of course it’s hard to find domestically produced GPS in the country that uses GLOSNASS.


Money plz

Budget 2023: Battle looming between defence officials and lawmakers, experts say

“A battle is brewing between Canadian defence officials and federal decision-makers as the Trudeau government looks for ways to save billions of dollars over the next few years.”

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010

Frosted Flake posted:

I keep thinking about London and Vancouver. When the decision was made to get rid of industry so we can have an economy based on real estate instead, did nobody think that people in the places where all of the productive economy went would buy up that real estate?

I guess the answer is that they didn't care, since they're the investors, developers and bankers involved. Actually, that makes a lot of sense. The City of London benefits from London becoming a giant real estate speculation bubble, since they profit more from speculation than production anyway.

e: Like to them, these are capital flows from Russia and China to their real estate markets, using their banks, brokerages, conducted in the currencies they speculate in etc. so Russian billionaires buying up London and Chinese Vancouver was an intended part of the whole thing, they see that is that money entering into their financial system at the top end instead of through the bottom (factories and boring stuff tied to production).

lol the BC liberals were so corrupt multiple intelligence agencies called out van casinos for money laundering (allegedly)

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010

Frosted Flake posted:

Of course it’s hard to find domestically produced GPS in the country that uses GLOSNASS.

Money plz

Budget 2023: Battle looming between defence officials and lawmakers, experts say

“A battle is brewing between Canadian defence officials and federal decision-makers as the Trudeau government looks for ways to save billions of dollars over the next few years.”

don’t think Trudeau will need to worry about that at this rate when Torontos planned service cuts hit in 2024. liberals don’t realize that voters have the option of just staying home which they will if all the government can talk about is our blonde blue eyed heroes. why the hell should some Somali immigrant living in a crumbling building with poo poo transit care how many wunderwaffen the Ukies get

without getting into it the Toronto suburbs are where our elections are decided. like how PA matters for elections as it’s the only place that can flip

tazjin
Jul 24, 2015


Futanari Damacy posted:

Making microchips is one of the hardest things you can do, it will be good when production is fully under China's auspice after reunification in a few years

Taiwan (where the factories are located) isn't actually the crucial part here though. The crucial part is being able to build those factories, which requires lithography tech from ASML (in the Netherlands). That's the actual current bottleneck of this entire microchip situation.

China has been trying to do their own lithography for a while, but I haven't heard much about how that's going. Russia has experimental working lithography, even to fairly recent manufacturing sizes (I'll look up a recent article I read about it), but it has quite some ways to go to become something you can actually use in a factory. There's also a non-zero chance that the government might slurp that up for military use, and realise they need it for consumers far too late.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1643234512837525506

Someone tell me when the realignment is finished so I can see what it looks like.

fizzy
Dec 2, 2022

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I don't see why it'd be difficult fo Russia to make their own chips. They have plentiful supplies of both potatoes and oil.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

Lostconfused posted:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1643234512837525506

Someone tell me when the realignment is finished so I can see what it looks like.

but wait i thought this wasn't about surrounding Russia? And that Russia shouldn't care because it's a defensive alliance? Seems like Russia had a choice of NATO Ukraine, NATO Finland or NATO both and they correctly decided NATO Finland was the lesser evil (because lol)

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
China has been making some major breakthrough they got it down to 7nm with possibly 5nm in the not too near future.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

the extreme nature of the Finland escalation is really bad

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

euphronius posted:

the extreme nature of the Finland escalation is really bad

they're so loving dumb

i hope Russia fucks with them constantly

tazjin
Jul 24, 2015


Ardennes posted:

China has been making some major breakthrough they got it down to 7nm with possibly 5nm in the not too near future.

Is it under experimental conditions or can they actually build fabs with that already?

I found an article about the state of things in Russia, we have experimental 7nm prototypes but far from being usable: https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/10/2...hestvennyj.html

This article is a bit more pessimistic, expecting a usable version not before 2026-2028. I've seen more optimistic takes, too, but it depends at least in part on whether the government decides to throw a boatload of money at them or not. Having seen recent decisions of RFRIT, I think it's a coin toss.

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013

Lostconfused posted:

Someone tell me when the realignment is finished so I can see what it looks like.

Its already finnished.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

lol well as I learned ITT, Finland cant leave for a minimum of 20 yers so well done everyone

Enjoy your tours to exciting middle eastern locales

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

Frosted Flake posted:

lol well as I learned ITT, Finland cant leave for a minimum of 20 yers so well done everyone

Enjoy your tours to exciting middle eastern locales

i can't tell what's worse

that they don't know what they've signed up to

or that they do

lollontee
Nov 4, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Frosted Flake posted:

lol well as I learned ITT, Finland cant leave for a minimum of 20 yers so well done everyone

Enjoy your tours to exciting middle eastern locales

thanks

Cookie Cutter
Nov 29, 2020

Is there something else that's bothering you Mr. President?

The Finland thing for me has previously worked as a point to disqualify this idea that Putin is somehow dead set on world domination. It's right there, it's population is tiny, it wasn't in NATO, it has regions that feature in the starry eyed dreams of Russian nationalists, and it has the added bonus of not being the most fortified place on the continent full of ideologically hardened and well-equipped psychopaths - if we are in pure territory capture mode then surely it would be preferable to just march on Helsinki and take it with no effort, so why hasn't evil Putin done that yet?

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Cookie Cutter posted:

The Finland thing for me has previously worked as a point to disqualify this idea that Putin is somehow dead set on world domination. It's right there, it's population is tiny, it wasn't in NATO, it has regions that feature in the starry eyed dreams of Russian nationalists, and it has the added bonus of not being the most fortified place on the continent full of ideologically hardened and well-equipped psychopaths - if we are in pure territory capture mode then surely it would be preferable to just march on Helsinki and take it with no effort, so why hasn't evil Putin done that yet?

Lost the cores on it and has been too busy running fabrication missions on the Ukraine, now it might be too late.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

tazjin posted:

Is it under experimental conditions or can they actually build fabs with that already?

I found an article about the state of things in Russia, we have experimental 7nm prototypes but far from being usable: https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/10/2...hestvennyj.html

This article is a bit more pessimistic, expecting a usable version not before 2026-2028. I've seen more optimistic takes, too, but it depends at least in part on whether the government decides to throw a boatload of money at them or not. Having seen recent decisions of RFRIT, I think it's a coin toss.

It is still experimental but it has reached the point that there are samples out there. It is going to be a few years before the get a Fab fully up and running. The Russians are certainly farther behind and they actually do need significant state investment to catch up, we will see but perhaps this war will force the Kremlin to make investments they should have done 20 years ago.

The Russian state really isn’t strapped for cash, and most analysis has shown they are selling oil well above the cap if not slightly lower than market pricing.

As for the “realignment” Finland was already working pretty closely with NATO and unless warheads/permanent bases are put there I don’t think that much will change.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:23 on Apr 4, 2023

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

the finnish conventional military is actually no joke (yet, anyway - one expects that they will get NATO-normalised over the next couple of decades) and it would've been a tough call anyway. it may also genuinely have meant open war with the scandinavians - there would've been massive political demand for intervention, and that would've been an even bigger escalation risk than ukraine is

Z the IVth
Jan 28, 2009

The trouble with your "expendable machines"
Fun Shoe

tazjin posted:

Taiwan (where the factories are located) isn't actually the crucial part here though. The crucial part is being able to build those factories, which requires lithography tech from ASML (in the Netherlands). That's the actual current bottleneck of this entire microchip situation.

What's the secret sauce on the tech that makes it difficult to duplicate? Something so crucial would surely be crawling with industrial espionage.

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013

Cookie Cutter posted:

The Finland thing for me has previously worked as a point to disqualify this idea that Putin is somehow dead set on world domination. It's right there, it's population is tiny, it wasn't in NATO, it has regions that feature in the starry eyed dreams of Russian nationalists, and it has the added bonus of not being the most fortified place on the continent full of ideologically hardened and well-equipped psychopaths - if we are in pure territory capture mode then surely it would be preferable to just march on Helsinki and take it with no effort, so why hasn't evil Putin done that yet?

lol wtf? finland would not have been easy to take at all, would have a lot less to offer than ukraine does anyways

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Z the IVth posted:

What's the secret sauce on the tech that makes it difficult to duplicate? Something so crucial would surely be crawling with industrial espionage.

It seems just that the individual components of a UVL lithographic machine are just not easily duplicated. I think it is less the concept that is the issue but replicating the entire supply chain of what is a very complex instrument.

I mean if the Russians wanted to take Finland, they would not only need another round of mobilization but put Ukraine on freeze. Also, I don’t think the Russian public would be up for it. The situation in the Donbas has been going on for a while, Finland would be completely out of no-where.

That said, I don’t think it precludes a “missile crisis” at some point if the Finns start talking up having American warheads on their territory or missile defense batteries.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:28 on Apr 4, 2023

Cookie Cutter
Nov 29, 2020

Is there something else that's bothering you Mr. President?

OctaMurk posted:

lol wtf? finland would not have been easy to take at all, would have a lot less to offer than ukraine does anyways

If it's a wrong assessment then that's fair enough, live and learn

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Finland has one large town. just take that and it’s done.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

euphronius posted:

Finland has one large town. just take that and it’s done.

The Finns have a large reservist system and it would still take 150-200k worth of forces to overrun the Finns initially since you need troops for occupation duty.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

Seatbelts posted:

This rules; those people finally get access to clean water.
Also I love infrastructure

starting the I loving Love Infrastructure twitter and teepublic site

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

tazjin posted:

Is it under experimental conditions or can they actually build fabs with that already?

I found an article about the state of things in Russia, we have experimental 7nm prototypes but far from being usable: https://www.ixbt.com/news/2022/10/2...hestvennyj.html

This article is a bit more pessimistic, expecting a usable version not before 2026-2028. I've seen more optimistic takes, too, but it depends at least in part on whether the government decides to throw a boatload of money at them or not. Having seen recent decisions of RFRIT, I think it's a coin toss.

https://t.me/it_vatnik/1141?embed=1

The 5 year plan is to produce 28nm chips by 2028

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


euphronius posted:

Finland has one large town. just take that and it’s done.

i don't think EUIV is a good model for this conflict

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tazjin
Jul 24, 2015


Z the IVth posted:

What's the secret sauce on the tech that makes it difficult to duplicate? Something so crucial would surely be crawling with industrial espionage.

The TL;DR of what happened is that previously various companies could make lithography machines using less sophisticated tech (with constant incremental improvement), then ASML started investigating something called EUV (extreme ultraviolet lithography) which companies like Intel said is too risky and won't pay off. It needed years of complex scientific research and process tuning to produce any results, but eventually it did and they were orders of magnitude better than before. Intel doesn't make lithography equipment anymore.

They're the only ones that cracked that nut so they basically just have a global monopoly on it. They don't just sell their machines either, they sell them with operators to run them because that's also incredibly complex, so they're like a full-lifecycle company for these machines (imagine if Airbus/Boeing were selling planes with pilots included and gave you no access to the training materials).

Reverse-engineering all of this is extremely hard, especially the optics involved as even if you manage to approximately understand the correct shape of the mirrors etc., you might still not understand how it all fits together.

Russia and China are trying to reproduce this essentially. All other Western companies have, afaik, given up on trying to do that.

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