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https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1643299195938299909?s=20 This is very bad for the nation, but this is also very good.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:18 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 12:57 |
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Have they started saying that persecuting Trump for what he did in the past is pointless because it was so long ago, but also persecute Hillary for her e-mails, yet? I've always "enjoyed" the cognitive dissonance of those two thoughts when they start spouting them back to back.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:25 |
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Randalor posted:Have they started saying that persecuting Trump for what he did in the past is pointless because it was so long ago, but also persecute Hillary for her e-mails, yet? I've always "enjoyed" the cognitive dissonance of those two thoughts when they start spouting them back to back. I think this has been a standard line since 2015, when whatever he did in the past was egregious enough that "well that's why he's such a good businessman" or "just boys being boys, product of his time, etc etc" wouldn't pass muster
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:27 |
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Oh, no, I meant at the protest today.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:28 |
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That doesn't work, hypocrisy is the point.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:33 |
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Randalor posted:Oh, no, I meant at the protest today. Oh, sorry I misread. Honestly I'd be surprised if they're going to be so veiled if opening up with picking fights like birds call in the morning is the mood of the day. His bad stuff was good because he got away with it which means he's strong, which is why holding him to account because it upsets the natural order of things of him getting away with it because he's strong! None of it is in good faith obviously but some of it can be too boring or droll.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:34 |
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Trump has officially surrendered and was posting on Truth social during his ride to court. https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1643305055435513883
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:35 |
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Yeah, one of the key realizations for me personally was exactly that. I used to spend a lot of time and energy learning right wing arguments and constructing counters that proved (to any reasonable person) that they were factually incorrect but at some point I discovered all that energy/time use was their actual goal. The credulousness of most Americans is a major tool in the fascist arsenal. It's their most effective one, really.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:36 |
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TheDisreputableDog posted:You are objectively, demonstrably wrong. White, blue-collar workers voted for Bill Clinton, and their lives continued to get worse. Thirteen percent of Trump voters also voted for Obama, without which the contest wouldn’t have even been close. Those people aren’t racist or motivated by race. "Racism is over because we elected a black president" isn't quite what you said here, but LOL that it's pretty close. Trump ran on an explicit platform of racism and racial grievance. He promised a literal Muslim Ban. He talked about the Mexican Menace. LOL that you think people can't be racist if they voted for Obama. Absolutely elementary school understanding of racism happening here. DarkCrawler posted:California is not wealthy because of government policies, Yes it absolutely is.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:37 |
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Epic High Five posted:If you think all the interventions and stuff started AFTER the USSR fell that's just an incorrect understanding of history, as they were a well-established duty of intelligence agencies even before Operation Paperclip made them all official national policy. Main Paineframe posted:Whether it's claiming that the system is somehow rigged in favor of fascism, or insisting that voters are too "pro-suffering" to support leftism, or claiming that voters are simply voting against their own interests...it all seems to boil down simply declaring leftism to be functionally impossible to attain (whether in America or worldwide), and absolving the left of its responsibility to convince other people to support leftist policies. “Pro-suffering” is not an absolute idea, I’m just using it as a label for the kind of human brain that values loyalty and tradition and hard work over curiosity and openness to experience. (It is very inflammatory and I don’t recommend ever telling anybody that they are “pro-suffering,” it’s more that they are distrustful of any gain or comfort that comes without being taken by force or secured via sacrifice.) Those are the traits that are, perhaps, “hard wired”. That “old ways are best” POV doesn’t have to align with any particular set of policy positions. Like, those kinds of people in the old USSR or modern China would be the ones most likely to call themselves devoted Communists, right? Because their society has been aligned around placing the Communist party’s stated values very highly in their social hierarchy. Just because somebody has an authoritarian mind doesn’t mean their positions are set in stone, or that these types of people can’t change through generations of experience. Like, in the antebellum south any white authoritarian supported slavery. Their equivalents now, for all their faults, find chattel slavery distasteful to the point of trying to erase it from our history. So it’s a years/decades long process of getting those people to a point where they will tolerate policies that provide enough social equity to eliminate poverty. So we make what incremental gains we can and try to move the Overton window. If you just say “screw all that” and have a revolution, those authoritarians - who, mind you, are massively disproportionately armed in this country -are completely unreformed and immediately look for some way to undermine that equity or, failing that, cause violence.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:42 |
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"consequences for my actions, consequences!! This is so surreal, this is unlike anything I have ever experienced before! MAGA! "
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:42 |
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Yeah, "they" being poor rural white Republicans, the topic of the conversation. I didn't think people were talking about well-off people when considering self-inflicted economic damage. What percentage of Obama-to-Trump voters were rural poor whites? DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 4, 2023 |
# ? Apr 4, 2023 18:43 |
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Mellow Seas posted:lol, how could I possibly believe that? You know me well enough to know I’m not that ignorant. I didn’t say “collapse”, I said “collapse into totalitarianism,” which it had fully done by WW2. (If you don’t think that’s accurate then I dunno what to tell you there.) What does "collapse into totalitarianism" mean though? The USSR definitely became more totalitarian, but I wouldn't call what it did in WW2 "collapse".
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:17 |
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In addition to the fuckery in Tennessee, things are going to get hosed in North Carolina too, looks like: https://twitter.com/_lucillesherman/status/1643313744720658433 As a South Carolinian living on the border it's nice to imagine I'm right next to a purple state sometimes til reality rips me back.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:23 |
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Fister Roboto posted:What does "collapse into totalitarianism" mean though? The USSR definitely became more totalitarian, but I wouldn't call what it did in WW2 "collapse". I guess I should have considered how strongly that word is associated with the 90s in this context
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:36 |
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Any Wisconsin news or is it too soon to tell?
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:44 |
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Here's two interesting studies that came out today. They determined that there are two defining qualities for Gen Z: - They hate milk. - They love saving for retirement. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/04/dining/milk-dairy-industry-gen-z.html quote:Got Milk? Not This Generation. Alarmed by dwindling sales to Gen Z, the dairy industry is going all out to get younger Americans on the milk train. Gen Z are saving far more for retirement and investing in the stock market than any other generation and are currently on track to be "the best prepared generation" for retirement in the U.S. 67% of Gen Zers that have a retirement plan offered are contributing to it and they are contributing an average of 20% of their income to retirement. The average person age 18-25 with a 401(k) has $33,000 invested already. quote:Saving for retirement in America makes 'dramatic' shift, new report reveals https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/saving-retirement-america-dramatic-shift-new-report https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/study-finds-gen-z-doing-an-extraordinary-job-saving-for-retirement
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:46 |
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The Wisconsin polls close at 8 central and we should get an initial surge of vote counts dropped then. Wisconsin doesn't allow counting absentee or early votes til election day. Milwaukee and Madison are usually the later in the night places to report. Although we'll be able to infer some stuff from initial counts on smaller counties. An interesting wrinkle is Dan Kelly beat out the judge from the Waukesha parade massacre case. She was very popular and won the vote by a decent margin in the Waukesha (WOW) area and then she lost by a ton everywhere else in the state. Will the favored candidate getting knocked out in the primary suppress the vote a bit? Who knows. I'm wary of putting too much confidence in the primary vote also. The republican spending has been very concentrated in the last few weeks. I don't think any of the Uihlen dollars started coming in until March.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:51 |
If Millenials/Gen Z have the ability to put money into retirement, I'm not sure why it would be surprising that they are. The other option is "work til you die" because the concept of social security is going to be dead unless a *massive* reinvestment plan is put into place within 20 years. Younger people don't have more faith in the markets, they just don't have any other choice if they ever want to retire.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:52 |
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CuddleCryptid posted:If Millenials/Gen Z have the ability to put money into retirement, I'm not sure why it would be surprising that they are. The other option is "work til you die" because the concept of social security is going to be dead unless a *massive* reinvestment plan is put into place within 20 years. Just for clarification: Social Security going "bankrupt" does not mean that the program is dead. Social Security is funded by current payroll taxes, so the benefits can never go to 0. What will happen is that Social Security will only pay out what it takes in, which is estimated to be between 71% and 77% of current benefits for several decades until the population curve balances out. A 23-29% cut in benefits for decades is a pretty big deal, but it is not the same as Social Security going away forever.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 19:58 |
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Artonos posted:The Wisconsin polls close at 8 central and we should get an initial surge of vote counts dropped then. Wisconsin doesn't allow counting absentee or early votes til election day. It sounds like a lot of people are stressing out over whether Milwaukee and Madison turnout are going to be high enough to overcome high turnout in GOP-favored areas. Heartburn fuel.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:02 |
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Yea, Social Security isn’t in any danger and the idea that it is was doomed was deliberate propaganda to get young people to not prioritize preserving it. Like Leon said the worse case is a big haircut to benefits, but when that day starts approaching they’re going to find the money. It’s a pretty big shortfall in the forecast but not an unmanageably huge shortfall. Also regarding the milk thing, “good luck” to the dairy industry, I think they’re screwed. They should try focusing on cheese probably, people still like that. In any case I really appreciate a runner named “Zapata”. As Kramer said, “it’s like an ice cream man named Cone!”
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:08 |
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just for clarification: That is accurate, and perhaps I should have said "can't be relied upon". You might get something out of it in 30 years but if you're looking to retire its not something you can actually lean on to keep your finances together like how some of the older generation treated it.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:09 |
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Randalor posted:Have they started saying that persecuting Trump for what he did in the past is pointless because it was so long ago, but also persecute Hillary for her e-mails, yet? I've always "enjoyed" the cognitive dissonance of those two thoughts when they start spouting them back to back. https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1643299195938299909
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:09 |
Mellow Seas posted:Yea, Social Security isn’t in any danger and the idea that it is was doomed was deliberate propaganda to get young people to not prioritize preserving it. Like Leon said the worse case is a big haircut to benefits, but when that day starts approaching they’re going to find the money. It’s a pretty big shortfall in the forecast but not an unmanageably huge shortfall. As our various wars and macroeconomic policy have taught us, money isn't real and anyone saying literally anything is unaffordable is just straight up lying.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:13 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Here's two interesting studies that came out today. They determined that there are two defining qualities for Gen Z: my completely anecdotal take based on my own situation is that the major increase in 401k savings rate is because a lot of younger people have given up on owning a home and are socking away what in the past would have been down payment money while they split renting a house with five other people.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:13 |
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... yes, that was literally the post before mine and the exact tweet I was responding to. They're talking about Hunter Biden and genders, I was asking if they had started brining up Hillery's E-mails yet.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:15 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just for clarification: In fairness, it doesn't help that Social Security itself sends out those loving "we're going bankrupt" mailers in their annual statements. I get that they're probably trying to scare voters into prioritizing funding SS better, but when you open a statement and out pops a little green piece of paper informing you that "by 2040, you will not be able to rely on social security for your retirement," etc etc, that doesn't read well to, well, anyone. They don't use the phrase "bankrupt" but they certainly do their best to support the narrative themselves.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:17 |
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i quick read the article, may have missed it, does it state the percentage of younger folks who have a savings/retirement plan that they can invest more in? also, im sure social security will be there for me, just it won't be enough to keep me from working till the day I die in a restaurants freezer
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:20 |
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JosefStalinator posted:As our various wars and macroeconomic policy have taught us, money isn't real and anyone saying literally anything is unaffordable is just straight up lying. The problem becomes if the U.S. ever gets to a point where it can't service its debt or becomes less attractive to be used as the global reserve currency. We're currently up to 12% of the budget every year being spent on just interest from debt. We're still paying interest on the wars from 20 years ago. The U.S. government could take over the federal reserve and force it to print enough money to cover all of our debts right away, but that would have the problems of causing massive inflation (and you've seen how even going 5-6% above the normal inflation target drives people crazy and hurts people) and making it very risky to hold U.S. dollars as a reserve currency. There isn't currently another viable currency to take our place, but that might not always be the case. China really likes to manipulate and float their currency, so it is somewhat unattractive for people to hold it for safety reasons, but if the U.S. just dropped the value of the dollar by 25% overnight, then those 7-10% changes on the Yuan backed by an $18 trillion GDP look a lot safer.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:21 |
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The problem becomes if the U.S. ever gets to a point where it can't service its debt or becomes less attractive to be used as the global reserve currency. We're currently up to 12% of the budget every year being spent on just interest from debt. You're right - I was just exaggerating for effect. My more serious point is we could raise taxes and shift spending around and maintain some level of fiscal responsibility as you outlined above and still pay for SS and most left wing priorities. But political will, institutional inertia, empire maintenance, etc.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:23 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The average person age 18-25 with a 401(k) has $33,000 invested already. This is "total household retirement savings" for Gen Z. How many Gen Z constitute their own household? Page 108 here: https://transamericainstitute.org/d...ment-report.pdf
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:24 |
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I just want to say drinking dairy milk is gross and I hope it dies out and I’m glad they’re freaking out over people not drinking it enough. It’s just wet white fluid and does a lot of harm to the environment. Oat milk all the way.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:24 |
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World Famous W posted:i quick read the article, may have missed it, does it state the percentage of younger folks who have a savings/retirement plan that they can invest more in? Somewhat curious if more money from the 20-somethings is making their way into IRA's simply because it's much less realistic for that to turn into a down payment on a house. Going by the younger programmers I'm working with, none of them are talking about buying a home which is a sharp contrast to when I was that age talking with my co-workers.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:25 |
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Ringo Star Get posted:I just want to say drinking dairy milk is gross and I hope it dies out and I’m glad they’re freaking out over people not drinking it enough. It’s just wet white fluid and does a lot of harm to the environment. Oat milk all the way. going to kill the world, but it's tasty
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:29 |
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I'd rather just drink water than either at this point tbh
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:29 |
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World Famous W posted:i quick read the article, may have missed it, does it state the percentage of younger folks who have a savings/retirement plan that they can invest more in? I don't see it in the article, but I found a link to the original study. It is 342 pages, but I'll take a browse to see if I can find anywhere that specifically breaks it down by Gen Z and as a percentage of the total population with 401(k)s available. https://transamericainstitute.org/d...look-report.pdf Edit: I believe it is 67% according to this: quote:Seventy-three percent of workers have access to a 401(k) or similar employee-funded retirement plan in the workplace. Generation X (77 percent) and Millennials (74 percent) are more likely to be offered an employee-funded plan than Generation Z (67 percent) and Baby Boomers (68 percent). Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 4, 2023 |
# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:30 |
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brugroffil posted:This is "total household retirement savings" for Gen Z. How many Gen Z constitute their own household? Page 108 here: https://transamericainstitute.org/d...ment-report.pdf I think household is only including the individuals and potential spouse, but that is a good point. They also say "workers between 18 and 25 already had $33,000," which doesn't seem like they would be counting parents.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:33 |
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I think household is only including the individuals and potential spouse, but that is a good point. They also say "workers between 18 and 25 already had $33,000," which doesn't seem like they would be counting parents. Right, so how hard does "18-25 yo and already constitutes an independent household" skew things? How many Gen Z are even in that category?
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:36 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 12:57 |
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brugroffil posted:Right, so how hard does "18-25 yo and already constitutes an independent household" skew things? How many Gen Z are even in that category? Very good point. That may be a significant filtering situation depending on how they determined household. I can't seem to see how they explicitly define it in the study, but I'll check in a bit when I have a chance to see if this is the case.
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# ? Apr 4, 2023 20:44 |