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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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Al-Saqr posted:I want russian electronics to be a vacuum tube monstrosity named the 'Elektronikafuckyou 3000', to turn it on you have to switch 1918 flip switches in the correct order and that can only run Ascii tetris and every time you turn it on it plays the soviet anthem (which you must complete) and the latest politburo meeting notes. to turn it off you must scream. I legitimately want Russian electronics to be like the tech in the Netflix version of "Maniac", which is actually quite close to what you describe here
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Apr 4, 2023 21:58
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One of the larger reasons for Finland joining NATO is purely based on domestic politics. We just had elections and the conservative NCP won. They have been nato hawks for the longest and if Finland didn't join NATO during the last government, it would with this government. I think the then leading social democrat party SDP thought that they could take the edge of the impending conservative election victory and not lose as badly as they did when the NATO thing is done and dusted and could not be used as an election platform. It might have turned out to be the right choice as it is somewhat likely that the NCP will create a coalition government with either the far right Finns or SDP itself. As for the process of joining itself, there wasn't really much to talk about, no real discussion, no critique. It was wholly decided by both the politicians and the media that this would happen now or never. The leading Finnish newspaper HS did an editorial a *couple of days ago* that mourned that the process of joining NATO didn't include more discussion and argumentation about the pros and cons to give a veneer of objectivity on the issue when it didn't matter at all anymore. As for the nuclear bombs, it is illegal to bring in or produce nuclear weapons in the country. Of course laws can always be changed, but people here tend to have been averse to nuclear weapons since the cold war.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:02
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Frosted Flake posted:e: I am still pissed about winter warfare training in Norway, you are out of your goddamn mind if you want training cycles to do that in Finland. I was a FiSTer stationed in Alaska for 3 years. At ~-40°F the parachute on illum rounds freezes to the shell (for 105mm anyway). The rounds look like little meteors as they come streaking in before punching through the ice for some eagle to find in the spring. There was nothing in my sequence of 15 subsequent corrections to tell the gun bunnies to warm up the shells first. Organ Fiend posted:Russia's Starcraft 2 talent is woefully lacking. By capturing Finland, they also obtain Joona Sotola, aka Serral, considered to be one of the best if not the best SC2 player of all time. No GSL Code S wins makes a tough argument for "best".
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Apr 4, 2023 22:03
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Hazamuth posted:One of the larger reasons for Finland joining NATO is purely based on domestic politics. We just had elections and the conservative NCP won. They have been nato hawks for the longest and if Finland didn't join NATO during the last government, it would with this government. I think the then leading social democrat party SDP thought that they could take the edge of the impending conservative election victory and not lose as badly as they did when the NATO thing is done and dusted and could not be used as an election platform. It might have turned out to be the right choice as it is somewhat likely that the NCP will create a coalition government with either the far right Finns or SDP itself. there will be US installations outside of finnish jurisdiction on finnish soil within a decade, or at least the administrative process for establishing such will be well on its way. i promise you this. there has been no formal abstention in the process of joining - the finns have not placed conditions on the deployment of forces or specific military equipment on finnish territory. that means that there is space for the americans to push, and with the press and political elites as supine as they presently are, it will be very difficult to resist.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:05
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No party nor media has tried to argue for nuclear weapons on the Finnish soil as that is a lot harder sell than NATO.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:11
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Seymour Hersh bombed the Nordstream pipeline, hence how he knows everything about it! *taps head*
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Apr 4, 2023 22:13
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Frosted Flake posted:lol well as I learned ITT, Finland cant leave for a minimum of 20 yers so well done everyone They can leave after one year. You read the treaty article wrong. However, they can never leave.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:16
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Ardent Communist posted:i really think people should be looking at the winter war for how this one is going to go, even though Russia is no longer communist, because the parallels are too big to ignore. Finland and Ukraine are both fascist adjacent countries, on the border of Russia, that due to their size and economic strength, are entirely reliant on western support to have any chance. Both countries were given a chance to negotiate a more reasonable settlement that russia could live with, and decided that they would fight. and they did fight bravely and cause reverses to russia, but eventually the manpower and economic differences became too great to ignore and despite promises from western governments that aid would be coming and be enough to win the little aid they received ended up not being enough and they were forced to sign a settlement far worse than Russia's initial demands, even though they could have possibly negotiated a better settlement when they were having military successes. From what I understand Britain and France wanted to use an expeditionary force as aid for Finland as a pretext to take over Northern Sweden and deny it's mineral resources to Germany. Neutral Norway and Sweden refused to allow any such aid to pass through their borders, and Finland wasn't particularly vocal about demanding such aid either, maybe because they, along with Norway and Sweden saw what the true intentions were and were concerned of German response but I dunno if that's just hindsight and what I've read has been selective. In March 1940 Britain and France said that if Finland made a formal request they would come through Norway and Sweden despite their objections with a force of around 120 000 of which 30 000 would come to Finland itself, the rest were to "protect" logistics and lines of communications in Northern Sweden and Norway. The Finnish Army at that point was pretty much finished, the main defensive line had been penetrated and outflanked with no reserves and even small arms ammunition running dry. But Stalin wanted the war over and done with and decided not to look through what was probably a bluff by Britain and France.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:21
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Hazamuth posted:No party nor media has tried to argue for nuclear weapons on the Finnish soil as that is a lot harder sell than NATO. yes, exactly, there is not going to be an argument about it, it's just going to suddenly be a settled decision much like how NATO membership seems to have gone, incidentally V. Illych L. has issued a correction as of 22:26 on Apr 4, 2023 |
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Apr 4, 2023 22:23
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again, norway has had an explicit policy of not having permanent foreign bases since we joined in the post-war period, and now that these bases are appearing the government response is that these are not bases and that policy has not meaningfully changed. NATO exists primarily to serve the US, and the US line in the arctic has become much less tolerant of minor states' eccentric interests
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Apr 4, 2023 22:25
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I repeat, US nukes are in The Netherlands and despite the largest protests in Dutch history taking place over this very thing, there has never been any public debate or any vote. Official government policy is "what nukes?" and also "shut up about this top secret matter of national security". You are out of your goddamn mind if you think Finnish public opinion, or Finnish parliament's opinion matters or will ever matter from this point onwards. That's not how vassal states work.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:27
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V. Illych L. posted:yes, exactly, there is not going to be an argument about it, it's just going to suddenly be a settled decision Nah, there has always been a sizable number (but not a majority) of people who wanted into NATO even before Ukraine war, but there is no such movement for nuclear weapons. Dunno what else to tell you.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:28
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Hazamuth posted:Nah, there has always been a sizable number (but not a majority) of people who wanted into NATO even before Ukraine war, but there is no such movement for nuclear weapons. Dunno what else to tell you. right, so you disagree with HS and think that there was a robust public discourse around changing this long-standing policy after the russians invaded ukraine? was there an election where this was one of the issues at play, perhaps?
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Apr 4, 2023 22:29
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Some Guy TT posted:the funny thing is that while economic conditions for teachers are definitely worse than they were forty years ago it seems like the main thing actual teachers complain about is increasing disrespect for their profession from administrators and parents alike to the point that its not really possible to do their jobs anymore This is what happened to the Bulgarian military after joining NATO smdh
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Apr 4, 2023 22:30
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gently caress your parliament and gently caress your constitution, said the US president to the Greek prime minister. But I'm sure Finland will be different.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:30
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V. Illych L. posted:yes, exactly, there is not going to be an argument about it, it's just going to suddenly be a settled decision one of the great things about being a communist is having historical analysis being front and centre, so unlike liberals you can actually look at history and theorize about how things can go. it kills me that more people don't see that things that are bad for the workers or anti-democratic are quickly ratified, whilst things that have massive support from the population need eons and committee after committee to argue and muddle the waters and then actually we can't implement this because we can't get everyone onside. biggest examples that come to mind are canada's trudeau getting elected with a mandate to end first-past-the-post and them loving dogging it and muddling the waters between different alternatives to the point that the referendum for a change was only a decision between the current system and the worst possible alternative, which of course failed. and then we have joining NAFTA, where the majority of canadians voted for parties that opposed signing NAFTA, but the three way split gave the most votes to the PCs, so they could push through NAFTA (without a referendum). i guess it works if a lot of population are liberals, since apparently they have the memory of goldfish.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:32
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Hazamuth posted:No party nor media has tried to argue for nuclear weapons on the Finnish soil as that is a lot harder sell than NATO. You don't actually have to argue for that. If they have a base they can just put them there. What are you gonna do? At times there has been overwhelming public opposition in Germany against the US nukes they keep around. Didn't amount to anything.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:33
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Orange Devil posted:I repeat, US nukes are in The Netherlands and despite the largest protests in Dutch history taking place over this very thing, there has never been any public debate or any vote. Official government policy is "what nukes?" and also "shut up about this top secret matter of national security". Especially since nukes in Holland are marginally important whereas the USN's entire strategy from the 80's on was to send carriers on a suicide mission to deliver nukes to Saint Petersburg, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk, as well as Soviet bastions, all of which they can now do by basing those same nukes in Finland, and without losing several super carriers and tens of thousands of sailors. So when they ask Finland to use those airbases, the Finns are going to what? Put it to a vote?
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Apr 4, 2023 22:35
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WaryWarren posted:Finkelstein just went on Cumtown, as they say. Not Cumtown, but the Adam Friedland Show. never seen the show on yt before. hats off to nick for convincing adam to die on camera over and over
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Apr 4, 2023 22:36
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Hazamuth posted:No party nor media has tried to argue for nuclear weapons on the Finnish soil as that is a lot harder sell than NATO. the US is really good at respecting sovereignty so you drunk as weirdos are probably fine
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Apr 4, 2023 22:36
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Like do you need to be in the room to know what when NATO staff sit the Finnish politicians down and explain that several US carrier task forces are worth more to them than the feelings of Finish voters, and it would behoove the Finns to authorize this matter of critical importance to the alliance lest XYZ, they're just going to sign? lol you loving idiots, having your politicians bullied or bribed behind closed doors by the US is what everyone already in NATO was warning you about. They spent the entire Cold War trying to figure out how get nuclear aircraft into takeoff positions at the same longitude as Finland, do you really think they are going to let you wiggle out of this? Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 22:41 on Apr 4, 2023 |
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Apr 4, 2023 22:39
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frozenphil posted:I was a FiSTer A what?
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Apr 4, 2023 22:40
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Weka posted:A what? FOO but American.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:41
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its a pretend job where they give someone binos and tell them they are different
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Apr 4, 2023 22:42
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Cao Ni Ma posted:How realistic is it to send someone to dogfight another plane and have a bunch of jets just waiting somehow avoiding radar waiting to pounce at the poor unsuspecting UA pilot It's the oldest trick in the book.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:42
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A Bakers Cousin posted:its a pretend job where they give someone binos and tell them they are different Many are called few are chosen.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:43
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V. Illych L. posted:right, so you disagree with HS and think that there was a robust public discourse around changing this long-standing policy after the russians invaded ukraine? was there an election where this was one of the issues at play, perhaps? Of course I disagree with HS as it is very clearly positioned on the right and as mentioned, was trying to appear objective even after being very horny for nato. The Finnish mantra around NATO has been to keep the so called "NATO option" open after the end of the cold war. What it meant is that as long as we didn't feel threatened enough, we didn't have a reason to join as Russia was one of our larger trading partners and doing so would have hurt financially. So in that sense the decision didn't come out of the woodwork as it was something that was always going to happen if things were going to get scary enough. The lack of discourse around the subject was disappointing, but not completely unexpected. My first post about the issue was a bit colored by my own emotions on the issue as I am disappointed about the decision personally.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:46
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Orange Devil posted:gently caress your parliament and gently caress your constitution, said the US president to the Greek prime minister. But I'm sure Finland will be different. I hadn't heard this quote before so I looked it up and uhh it was from a year before the Apostasia of 1965 and the ensuing political turmoil leading to the junta. How involved was America in all of that?
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Apr 4, 2023 22:47
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Is Russia still a major trade partner of Finland?
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Apr 4, 2023 22:49
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Lol what do you think. Also read Killing Hope.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:49
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Hazamuth posted:- Russia was one of our larger trading partners A lot of that going around lately. It's so weird that the all of these countries are making moves as a result of this crisis that directly benefit US interests and not their own. Oh well, this war could never have been prevented and certainly can't be allowed to end. Weka posted:I hadn't heard this quote before so I looked it up and uhh it was from a year before the Apostasia of 1965 and the ensuing political turmoil leading to the junta. How involved was America in all of that? America arranged for a coup to overthrow the Orthodox-Socialist leader of Greece, knowing that the military junta that replaced him would trigger a Turkish invasion of Cyprus. They were aware of pretty much all of it, and diplomatic cables suggest that they tried to push this conflict along rather than avoid it. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 22:52 on Apr 4, 2023 |
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Apr 4, 2023 22:49
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Frosted Flake posted:Like do you need to be in the room to know what when NATO staff sit the Finnish politicians down and explain that several US carrier task forces are worth more to them than the feelings of Finish voters, and it would behoove the Finns to authorize this matter of critical importance to the alliance lest XYZ, they're just going to sign? Well we were already bullied into buying the F-35
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Apr 4, 2023 22:50
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Hazamuth posted:Of course I disagree with HS as it is very clearly positioned on the right and as mentioned, was trying to appear objective even after being very horny for nato. The Finnish mantra around NATO has been to keep the so called "NATO option" open after the end of the cold war. What it meant is that as long as we didn't feel threatened enough, we didn't have a reason to join as Russia was one of our larger trading partners and doing so would have hurt financially. So in that sense the decision didn't come out of the woodwork as it was something that was always going to happen if things were going to get scary enough. The lack of discourse around the subject was disappointing, but not completely unexpected. My first post about the issue was a bit colored by my own emotions on the issue as I am disappointed about the decision personally. this was my initial reading - the reason i got snippy in the quoted post is because when the decision was actually made there was no real discussion about it, and by the time there was an election it was fait accompli, and i felt that this was fairly straightforwardly presented in the previous post. this is not to say that it came out of nowhere; i'm sure that the bases also will not come out of nowhere, but similar to norway there will necessarily be some infrastructure laid down, advance munitions depots, exercises, et cetra, and these will be rolled over into permanent US bases outside of finnish jurisdiction. the point is that this decision will not be made in the public domain at all, it is simply going to be the americans, some NATO officials and the leaders of the major parties sitting down and agreeing that this has to happen, and then it will happen.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:50
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Frosted Flake posted:Especially since nukes in Holland are marginally important whereas the USN's entire strategy from the 80's on was to send carriers on a suicide mission to deliver nukes to Saint Petersburg, Murmansk and Arkhangelsk, as well as Soviet bastions, all of which they can now do by basing those same nukes in Finland, and without losing several super carriers and tens of thousands of sailors. Why would they bother with any of this when ICBM's exist though
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Apr 4, 2023 22:50
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https://twitter.com/uamemesforces/status/1642625381608857602?t=1O3L75YJvKL_EYMYsxgrZw&s=19
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Apr 4, 2023 22:51
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again, where norwegian public discourse is on this matter - to the extent that there is any public discourse on the matter outside of the left-wing press - remains at the semantic point as to whether these agreed-upon areas are technically bases as such. this has now been official policy and the deal has been signed and ratified. officially these places aren't supposed to have any nukes, but norwegian authorities have no substantive way of verifying this and so any assertion that this is a risk is deemed a conspiracy theory, outrageous paranoia from stupid lefties etc etc
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Apr 4, 2023 22:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/uamemesforces/status/1642625381608857602?t=1O3L75YJvKL_EYMYsxgrZw&s=19 kinda saying the quiet part loud here
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Apr 4, 2023 22:53
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V. Illych L. posted:this was my initial reading - the reason i got snippy in the quoted post is because when the decision was actually made there was no real discussion about it, and by the time there was an election it was fait accompli, and i felt that this was fairly straightforwardly presented in the previous post. this is not to say that it came out of nowhere; i'm sure that the bases also will not come out of nowhere, but similar to norway there will necessarily be some infrastructure laid down, advance munitions depots, exercises, et cetra, and these will be rolled over into permanent US bases outside of finnish jurisdiction. the point is that this decision will not be made in the public domain at all, it is simply going to be the americans, some NATO officials and the leaders of the major parties sitting down and agreeing that this has to happen, and then it will happen. https://www.hs.fi/sarjakuvat/jarla/car-2000009431309.html No translation needed.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:54
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Slavvy posted:Why would they bother with any of this when ICBM's exist though Well 1) the navy needed a strategic nuclear mission for their share of the Pentagon budget 2) The surface navy needed a strategic nuclear mission for their share of the navy budget 3) Carrier aviation needed a strategic nuclear mission for their share of the surface navy budget Therefore supercarriers needed to carry out strategic nuclear strikes, and therefore they had to run the gauntlet of the Norwegian and Barents Seas.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:54
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V. Illych L. posted:again, where norwegian public discourse is on this matter - to the extent that there is any public discourse on the matter outside of the left-wing press - remains at the semantic point as to whether these agreed-upon areas are technically bases as such. this has now been official policy and the deal has been signed and ratified. officially these places aren't supposed to have any nukes, but norwegian authorities have no substantive way of verifying this and so any assertion that this is a risk is deemed a conspiracy theory, outrageous paranoia from stupid lefties etc etc I'd like to commiserate as far as US bases in the Philippines being treated the same way.
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Apr 4, 2023 22:57
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