(Thread IKs:
Nenonen)
|
What should the presidential powers be in 2020? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| UNLIMITED!!!! URKKI 2.0!!!!!! |
|
3 | 23.08% |
| Sauli should be allowed to telecast to our homes whenever he pleases, but that should be the limit. |
|
2 | 15.38% |
| He should be limited to writing mildly worded letters to HBL and other provincial newspapers. |
|
2 | 15.38% |
| None. More power to Sanna & Katri & Maria & Li & Anna-Maja & Jenni! |
|
2 | 15.38% |
| Unlimited, but every decision must be subject to a plebiscite. |
|
0 | 0% |
| None, but the president's life must be video streamed 24 /7 for the duration of their term, with no censorship. |
|
4 | 30.77% |
| Total: | 13 votes | ||
|
Terminal autist posted:Hopefully we open a new adventure in the middle east soon and you will be Naww now we don't need to kiss American asses as much anymore to keep the NATO door open, can just sit and circle-fellatio with the other Nordics.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 12:04 |
|
|
Now that we are in, we can become bad boys at the back of the class like Turkey!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
Elukka posted:Before the war I'd have laughed at the idea that Finland could defeat a Russian invasion but now it seems laughable that they'd just trivially annex us. I mean I think the trees alone could hold them off for a month or so
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:38
|
|
|
Elukka posted:Before the war I'd have laughed at the idea that Finland could defeat a Russian invasion but now it seems laughable that they'd just trivially annex us. *draws a graph of NATO propaganda opinions over time* wel call this, the Elukka function
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:38
|
|
|
Sulla nyt ei oo mitään sanottavaa muitten propagandan nielemisestä, toveri Lollontee
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
lollontee posted:*draws a graph of NATO propaganda opinions over time* Can someone translate this to English, please.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
Hajotus Maximus posted:Can someone translate this to English, please. ruplamiehellä ei ollut pelkää teetä samovarissa
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
Catpain Slack posted:Sulla nyt ei oo mitään sanottavaa muitten propagandan nielemisestä, toveri Lollontee 
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
Triple A posted:ruplamiehellä ei ollut pelkää teetä samovarissa I'm only half joking. Or is it that there's nothing to be understood?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:52
|
|
|
Hajotus Maximus posted:I'm only half joking. Or is it that there's nothing to be understood? a mathematical function written on a cartesian plane, with different opinions over time plotten on it, what do you not get?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 19:55
|
|
|
lollontee posted:*draws a graph of NATO propaganda opinions over time* Comrade I think if you had spent the last year directly embedded in the Russian Army as a literal Russian soldier you would have a worse, not better view of their military capabilities
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:03
|
|
|
lollontee posted:a mathematical function written on a cartesian plane, with different opinions over time plotten on it, what do you not get? The NATO propaganda opinions part. Also tying it to what Elukka posted. Makes no sense.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:05
|
|
|
Hajotus Maximus posted:The NATO propaganda opinions part. Also tying it to what Elukka posted. Makes no sense. Elukalla ollu huonoja mielipiteitä aikasemmista NATO sodista
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:08
|
|
|
lollontee posted:Elukalla ollu huonoja mielipiteitä aikasemmista NATO sodista Well , that does actually explain the post, thanks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:14
|
|
|
hip heijaa ku ollaan NATOssa ja sitte voidaanki alottaa oikeen kunnon vittuilu tonne idän suuntaan. saadaan viä Hjallis ulkoministeriks niin tulee hilpeetä
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
Stop being asses.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:17
|
|
|
Ahem. Anyway, let's have some post-election discussions. https://twitter.com/EAaltola/status/1643281352400281606 So, did Greens ultimately alienate their base instead of being victims of tactical voting?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:51
|
|
|
No. 1 Callie Fan posted:So, did Greens ultimately alienate their base instead of being victims of tactical voting? Yes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:53
|
|
|
Why is that, I've been out the loop so to speak so.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 20:55
|
|
|
According to twitter it's because they're angry exterme-woke transfeminist identity politicians who destroy kaupunkiluonto (=Malmin lentokenttä), love cannabis and hate cars
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:28
|
|
|
Also they're too far left and also too far right, hope this clarifies things!
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:30
|
|
|
Elisa Aaltola was also close to kokoomuksen puisto-osasto In her views on economics, hence being salty about party being too leftist.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2023 22:58
|
|
|
No. 1 Callie Fan posted:Ahem. Anyway, let's have some post-election discussions. In a way. Greens voters are mostly the least politically literate section of the middle class. When you tell them that leftist politics is literally the only way to get any progress on combating climate chance their eyes will glaze over and they think about their taxes. You can also get wildly different and mutually exclusive views from them at conversations. You could say that Greens voters operate purely on vibes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 00:56
|
|
|
I think the pre-election interview Ohisalo had with Long Play is kinda telling. The interviewer keeps trying to get Ohisalo to tell the difference between the Greens and vassarit, and pretty much the only thing she keeps repeating is that there would be no one else carrying the torch of environmentalism and combating climate change if they weren't around - which I think is completely false. Tbh I do think that in the current political landscape, where the environment and climate change are at least somewhat important and agreed upon issues to everyone other than PS (I mean, kepu is ok with anything as long as the countryside gets paid), the Greens would do better electionwise if they returned towards the "kokoomuksen puisto-osasto" days. Then again, this is subject to change depending on how especially LA prioritizes issues under a different leadership. I guess one could say that the Greens have been too successful, that their original "core" has become accepted widely enough and deeply enough that it's not an issue that differentiates them from other parties that much anymore. And when there's not much difference elsewhere either, most people lack a reason to vote for them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 06:50
|
|
|
TheWeedNumber posted:Just got a few questions for ya if you don’t mind entertaining us for just a second sir or ma’am: which way to Helsinki from here and why do y’all need ABM? Like whose gonna nuke Finland b, they gonna nuke New York before they nuke y’all fam, on god no cap b. Peace god. Sir, you need to be on your best behavior now. (Voi vittu tätäkö tää NATO sit onkin, pilvessä heiluvia SEMPER FI DO OR DIE US MARINES HOORAH ukkeleita?)
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 07:01
|
|
|
At this point Greens can only grow by either eating votes from SDP/Vas or eating votes from Kokoomus, and I would prefer them to eat votes from Kokoomus.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 07:03
|
|
|
That's also why I cast my vote for Sini Musta Liike. We already have a welfare state and equal rights, there's no purpose in voting for social democracy anymore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 07:03
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:That's also why I cast my vote for Sini Musta Liike. We already have a welfare state and equal rights, there's no purpose in voting for social democracy anymore. Good for you. I doubt too many people cast their vote for a welfare state as such, but rather for different viewpoints on how that's best kept up, to what extent, and what the best path forward is. When almost every party agrees on broad strokes of environmental policy (there's a reason why even PS agrees on carbon neutrality but with a different target year), even if you're voting from an environmental point of view, you might vote for some other party if all the greens can come up with is "we're more environmentalist" - without that statement having a basis in reality. Then again, I might be biased, having voted for greens back in the day before being turned away by how lovely their actual environmental goals and policies were. And having worked in the field, where the greens being poo poo was even more apparent. I just don't see what the intersection of issues is that'd lead to anyone voting for the current greens rather than other parties. Maybe it exists, but in that case the party is really bad at actually advertising it. Forktoss posted:At this point Greens can only grow by either eating votes from SDP/Vas or eating votes from Kokoomus, and I would prefer them to eat votes from Kokoomus. This.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 07:29
|
|
|
Qtamo posted:I just don't see what the intersection of issues is that'd lead to anyone voting for the current greens rather than other parties. Maybe it exists, but in that case the party is really bad at actually advertising it. its just vibes and "i don't wanna vote for a party that are explicit socialists (or i think are explicit socialists) but i care about the environment"
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 08:06
|
|
|
Over the long run, this election was less a "total disaster" and more a regression to the mean for the Greens. The core constituency appears to make up about 8% of voters, or roughly the same as Vas (RKP included for scale to demonstrate that poll turnout isn't particularly impactful on the polls.) Now unlike Vas, which seems to be utterly and completely unable to appeal to anyone beyond their allotted 8%, the Greens occasionally poll and get votes at significantly higher rates than their core constituency. Where does that come from? Mostly from PS and SDP, it seems.  Greens to SDP is logical, but what makes a person shift from Greens to PS is curious. However, if Riikka Purra of all people has done just that, there certainly must be a set of voters whose preferences align in a way that shifting between the two makes sense. Polls sourced from here: https://yle.fi/a/3-10509309
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 08:12
|
|
|
Forktoss posted:At this point Greens can only grow by either eating votes from SDP/Vas or eating votes from Kokoomus, and I would prefer them to eat votes from Kokoomus. "The park section of Cock" seems like a vestige from the 90's. It is dumb, but American "identity politics" have permeated our popular culture, and the greens are seen, and they paint themselves, as the anti-thesis to the reactionary perseet. What segment of Finnish society would identify with green politics, aimed at stealing votes from Cock?
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 09:13
|
|
|
Rappaport posted:"The park section of Cock" seems like a vestige from the 90's. It is dumb, but American "identity politics" have permeated our popular culture, and the greens are seen, and they paint themselves, as the anti-thesis to the reactionary perseet. What segment of Finnish society would identify with green politics, aimed at stealing votes from Cock? Children of Cock-parents. Aren't quite as right as Cock, horrified about the environment, not racist or homophobic and lives in a city. Doesn't want to vote for Vas or SDP. I know several.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 09:21
|
|
|
Fated To Be Fat posted:In a way. Greens voters are mostly the least politically literate section of the middle class.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 09:25
|
|
|
Rappaport posted:"The park section of Cock" seems like a vestige from the 90's. It is dumb, but American "identity politics" have permeated our popular culture, and the greens are seen, and they paint themselves, as the anti-thesis to the reactionary perseet. What segment of Finnish society would identify with green politics, aimed at stealing votes from Cock? Educated high income people who do not want to vote for leftist income transfers but still wish to vote for a "moral" party, instead of the lawful evil Cock. I know several examples. Sort of like modern day indulgences, vote the greens and you get your eartly sins forgiven.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 09:27
|
|
|
Keisari posted:Children of Cock-parents. Aren't quite as right as Cock, horrified about the environment, not racist or homophobic and lives in a city. Doesn't want to vote for Vas or SDP. Usually have a profile photo of themselves holding a DSLR.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 09:36
|
|
|
I know loads of educated city folk who wouldn't touch Vas with a pitkä tikku, will almost always choose Kok over SDP if forced to pick, but see themselves as Greens. They want environmental and educational issues to be taken seriously but are just so completely entrenched in a sivistysporvari identity or whatever that even SDP feels foreign to them. Mostly well-ish meaning liberal centre-right type people who go where the most alluring pöhinä prändäys takes them.Jasper Tin Neck posted:Greens occasionally poll and get votes at significantly higher rates than their core constituency. Where does that come from? Mostly from PS and SDP, it seems. I don't know how much there is direct shift from PS to Vihr and back between 2015-2019. Kesk/PS/Kok are in government, so it just might be that Kesk and pre-split PS leak to SDP and Kok leaks to Vihr, and some voters vacillate between SDP and Vihr. In the lead-up to 2019, Kesk and Siniset haemorrhage voters to post-split PS opposition, and maybe Kok voters who were Vihr-curious during Sipilä start to hesitate come election day and go back to Kokoomus. On the grand scale less people vote Vihr when more people vote for PS and vice versa, but it's probably not the same people going back and forth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 09:44
|
|
|
Forktoss posted:Kok leaks to Vihr, and some voters vacillate between SDP and Vihr. As much as lefties like the idea of Greens as class enemies, the data doesn't show meaningful shifts from Kok to Green. Quite the opposite in fact.  Rather, both seem to be tied to the (mis)fortunes of SDP.   Swings between Kok and SDP used to be much stronger in the past.  Vacillating between SDP and Kok makes no sense if you can only move between left and right, but a lot of voters just don't seem to care about conventional political divisions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 10:04
|
|
|
Jasper Tin Neck posted:
"Do I get more money from strong unions or from tax cuts?" And/or does the voter have school aged children and is in most need of hyvinvointivaltio.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 12:02
|
|
|
Interesting, thanks. I hadn't realised Kok and Vihr käyräs are pretty identical 2015-2019 and then turn into mirror images in 2019-2023. Based on this you could say that vihr and kepu suffered similar fates - kepu got a big win in 2015 with right-leaning messaging and then scared away every remaining left-leaning voter by forming an actual right-wing government, vihr got a big win in 2019 with left-leaning messaging and then scared away every remaining right-leaning voter by going to an actual leftist government.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 12:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 12:04 |
|
|
lollontee posted:Elukalla ollu huonoja mielipiteitä aikasemmista NATO sodista Sekään nyt ei taida olla vaan NATO-propagandaa että Venäjän asevoimat ei ole ihan sillä tasolla kuin luultiin.
|
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2023 15:35
|
|
