(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:gently caress, this is going to get me to reinstall Elite Dangerous
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Apr 5, 2023 20:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00Zf2wEFD8
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Apr 6, 2023 11:27
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New ThoughtSlime video and I don't think I can really get behind their arguments this time, aka "Hey, let's derail the thread into a big debate about the ethics of shoplifting"
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Apr 6, 2023 19:13
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What is there to discuss about the ethics? Tactics is an evergreen topic though.
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Apr 6, 2023 19:18
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imo, as someone who used to work retail and someone who lives on an insanely thin budget, i literally can't bring myself to care about shoplifting unless youre so bad at it that you get caught then then i have to fill out paperwork or stay late or whatever. the highly individualized nature of each person's circumstance makes it near impossible to create a blanket moral code that covers every single circumstance from desperate mothers to bored, under-stimulated rich teens. just dont make my life harder by being bad at it
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Apr 6, 2023 20:52
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KingKalamari posted:New ThoughtSlime video and I don't think I can really get behind their arguments this time, aka "Hey, let's derail the thread into a big debate about the ethics of shoplifting" Should you shoplift in general? Probably not. Are there scenarios, like in a situation where you have a starving child dependent on you, where it's ethically justified to shoplift? Yes. Will the topic ever be sufficiently discussed, or is there a final answer? No.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:12
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shoplifting is fine, just don't get caught and make everyone's day harder gently caress wal-mart
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Apr 6, 2023 21:14
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I won't drag the topic down on my views on shoplifting but I will say the fact that Walmart tosses out tons of food and basically prevents people from diving it out of the dumpster is pathetic.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:35
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Stealing from corporations = good Stealing from people = bad Seems simple to me
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Apr 6, 2023 21:36
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Corporations are people
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Apr 6, 2023 21:49
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Jimbot posted:I won't drag the topic down on my views on shoplifting but I will say the fact that Walmart tosses out tons of food and basically prevents people from diving it out of the dumpster is pathetic. It's not just walmart, basically all grocery stores throw out mind-boggling quantities of non-spoiled food rather than giving it away (and as you mentioned in many cases, even take active steps to prevent dumpster diving) because there is a slippery-slope fear that if you give the consumer the idea that if they wait on buying a product long enough it will eventually just be given away, nobody will buy things anymore. For another example where the product isn't even time sensitive to something like spoilage, see the whole Funkopop thing from a few weeks back where they just dumped shitloads of their ugly plastic gremlins directly into landfill because they couldn't be sold instead of donating them, giving them away or running promotions with them, etc. The rational and efficient forces of the all-knowing market at their best. As to the ethics of shoplifting, the primary factor that mostly allows people to do it these days is self-checkout, which stores installed in the first place so they could cut down on labor costs. Basically at any time these companies crying a river over shoplifting could curtail the bulk of it by ripping those things out and paying for a 2-4 extra cashiers, but of course they want it both ways where all labor is offloaded onto the customer for free and the customers don't take advantage of systems where some modicum of trust and power is placed in them to allow them to scan and bag their own purchases. So you're not gonna find me shedding a single solitary tear over people scanning cheaper codes or dropping a few extra items into their bag they "forgot" to scan.
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Apr 6, 2023 21:57
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Thoughtslime's video is specifically not about stealing to survive
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Apr 6, 2023 22:01
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Yeah watched that earlier and TS came to all the same conclusions basically: 1. in general it's wrong to steal, as it hurts someone 2. however, corporations are also basically stealing wages etc so stealing from them is super negligible 3. the argument that "shoplifting makes corporations fire workers" is idiotic 4. the biggest thing: who cares? Obviously there's a lot more variables and nuance and he does a pretty thorough job of going through them, I def think it's worth a watch
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Apr 6, 2023 22:01
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Also I just found out recently in the SF Bay thread that certain grocery stores like Safeway put contract language in their leases and land deeds that if they close a grocery store, that same building cannot house another grocery store for 20 goddamn years, which can senselessly create long standing localized food deserts in places they pull out of, as is happening right now in North Beach. So yeah honestly gently caress these guys, as long as you're not a dick to the staff steal all the hams you want imo.
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Apr 6, 2023 22:09
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Five years for what you did, the rest because you tried to run, 24601
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Apr 6, 2023 22:20
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Minion Death Cult is a podcast that digs into the comments sections on Facebook and news articles to mine content and they've run into this a few times. It's kind of shocking that if you look most of the cranky older people on Facebook and across a shocking number of conservative sites...parrot the same points about day-to-day minor shoplifting. It's their fault for doing self-checkout which put people out of work/not hiring enough workers/gouging on prices/oh poor little Walmart. At least as long as there aren't any pictures to trigger the racism/millennial-hating parts of their brain and it's a general point.
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Apr 6, 2023 22:20
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Sydin posted:It's not just walmart, basically all grocery stores throw out mind-boggling quantities of non-spoiled food rather than giving it away (and as you mentioned in many cases, even take active steps to prevent dumpster diving) because there is a slippery-slope fear that if you give the consumer the idea that if they wait on buying a product long enough it will eventually just be given away, nobody will buy things anymore. For another example where the product isn't even time sensitive to something like spoilage, see the whole Funkopop thing from a few weeks back where they just dumped shitloads of their ugly plastic gremlins directly into landfill because they couldn't be sold instead of donating them, giving them away or running promotions with them, etc. The rational and efficient forces of the all-knowing market at their best. im pretty sure its bc if someone gets sick from the donated food it opens them up to a lawsuit (this is at least what i have been taught)(this does not mean its right lol)
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Apr 6, 2023 22:42
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one time i watched a guy take a cart full to the top with food to a self check out and then he put everything on the belt and then put it in bags without scanning anything and then walked off. it was bad rear end. but more importantly, it was very funny. i think he should be allowed to do that VVV this also lol fun hater fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Apr 6, 2023 |
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Apr 6, 2023 22:46
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The only reason not to shoplift is companies like Walmart who 100% know you are doing it and carefully totalling it up so when you hit $500.01 in shoplifted items they can hit you with a felony.
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Apr 6, 2023 22:51
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Stealing from corporations is self defense, doubly so if you work there
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Apr 6, 2023 22:58
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thats a really stupid way to gently caress up your life lol
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Apr 6, 2023 23:05
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See, the part that I think gets glossed over a little bit too much for my taste is the potential damage it does to low-level employees (And I'm not talking about the hit the company takes to its bottom line affecting employment because I agree that that's a bullshit explanation). Rather, consistent instances of shoplifting can be used as justification on the part of the company or management to either fire employees for not actively preventing it or to make them do more work as part of their duties to try and prevent shoplifting. That's why I advocate heists and scams over shoplifting from a moral standpoint: There is less risk of low level employees getting caught in the crossfire. (Note that this is all taken under the assumption that the shoplifting is not being done for someone to meet their basic necessities. If you're Jean Valjean then go ahead and steal that loaf of bread to feed your sister's starving child)
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Apr 6, 2023 23:06
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yeah in a lot of places they wait until whatever you have stolen adds up to a felony and then hit you with one as soon as it reaches that amount. however. mom and pop stores tend not to know about doing this so fire away.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:07
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KingKalamari posted:See, the part that I think gets glossed over a little bit too much for my taste is the potential damage it does to low-level employees (And I'm not talking about the hit the company takes to its bottom line affecting employment because I agree that that's a bullshit explanation). Rather, consistent instances of shoplifting can be used as justification on the part of the company or management to either fire employees for not actively preventing it or to make them do more work as part of their duties to try and prevent shoplifting. If a business wants an excuse to fire employees, it will find one, same with demanding workers do more.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:41
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yeah nearly every state can fire you for any reason lol. the inconvenience it causes to the workers is that someone being bad at shoplifting means i might have to interact with a cop or spend any amount of time with the person working loss prevention, who is always the most insane person on planet earth and then i have to stay late at the job i already hate and then we probably have some kind of stupid rear end team meeting we have to attend about the problem on a weekend. its that kind of poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:45
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KingKalamari posted:That's why I advocate heists and scams over shoplifting from a moral standpoint: There is less risk of low level employees getting caught in the crossfire. Am I missing something or is there a form of scamming/grifting that targets companies instead of individual donators feeling sorry for your made up dog with cancer.
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Apr 6, 2023 23:56
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mycot posted:Am I missing something or is there a form of scamming/grifting that targets companies instead of individual donators feeling sorry for your made up dog with cancer. theres a beef shortage rn and a part of the reason is bc tyson foods paid a guy almost a quarter of a million dollars to raise cattle for them and instead he just stole it lol
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Apr 7, 2023 00:00
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mycot posted:Am I missing something or is there a form of scamming/grifting that targets companies instead of individual donators feeling sorry for your made up dog with cancer. If the people you're taking money from call themselves "investors" then the scam might be good.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:02
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Oh I see most of the scamming I see is your typical "if you don't give 500 dollars this queer POC baby is going to be homeless" tearjerkers
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Apr 7, 2023 00:05
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fun hater posted:theres a beef shortage rn and a part of the reason is bc tyson foods paid a guy almost a quarter of a million dollars to raise cattle for them and instead he just stole it lol based
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Apr 7, 2023 00:07
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fun hater posted:theres a beef shortage rn and a part of the reason is bc tyson foods paid a guy almost a quarter of a million dollars to raise cattle for them and instead he just stole it lol This is praxis
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Apr 7, 2023 00:11
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It's one of those things where I'm cranky it happened because only one person benefits greatly ( the guy who stole the money ) and meat processors because now they can jack up the price of beef. And a ton of people are going to lose out because the meat processors have raised the price. It's not a *necessity* to have beef like other foods, but it's still bad that this happened for most people. I'm not sure how cattle ranchers will factor in the win/lose pile, as they will make more money selling their cattle... but they won't be selling until the fall.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:34
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fun hater posted:theres a beef shortage rn and a part of the reason is bc tyson foods paid a guy almost a quarter of a million dollars to raise cattle for them and instead he just stole it lol lmao fun hater posted:im pretty sure its bc if someone gets sick from the donated food it opens them up to a lawsuit (this is at least what i have been taught)(this does not mean its right lol) Yeah fair that's also part of it, and also the reason why expiration dates on stuff like meat and dairy are pretty aggressive: it's safer to just say things are bad before they actually are and chuck them than it is to hold onto product until the last possible second and risk selling something potentially rancid. Sydin fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 00:38
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Prices will always go up and capitalists will always require more work from workers while firing whoever they can because the profit motive requires these things. They’re not caused by anything other than the inherent qualities of capitalism.
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Apr 7, 2023 00:41
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Sydin posted:lmao At the very least, even totally spoiled foodstuff should be converted to fertilizer, rather than general trash. That's something they could move towards. Old Hungarian fruit stand operator I used to live next to told me to save any spoiled milk, dilute heavily with water, and feed it to my pepper plants. Dude knew what he was talking about. Nice and crisp, no blossom end rot. B33rChiller fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 00:55
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fun hater posted:im pretty sure its bc if someone gets sick from the donated food it opens them up to a lawsuit (this is at least what i have been taught)(this does not mean its right lol) The US passed the Bill Emerson Good Samaritan Food Donation Act, giving liability protections on good fath food donations to non-profit charities, in 1996, and they passed an addendum last year to strengthen and clarify that law. This hasn't been true for almost 30 years.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:14
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Garrand posted:The US passed the Bill Emerson Good Samaritan Food Donation Act, giving liability protections on good fath food donations to non-profit charities, in 1996, and they passed an addendum last year to strengthen and clarify that law. This hasn't been true for almost 30 years. lol welp, just greed all the way down.
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Apr 7, 2023 01:34
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Twincityhacker posted:The only reason not to shoplift is companies like Walmart who 100% know you are doing it and carefully totalling it up so when you hit $500.01 in shoplifted items they can hit you with a felony. Wait, how do they track that?
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Apr 7, 2023 03:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:Wait, how do they track that?
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Apr 7, 2023 04:51
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Pants Donkey posted:Big box stores have dedicated security for poo poo like that, so they just catch it on camera, make notes of your appearance, and typically shoplifters will be sloppy and leave empty boxes behind giving them a decent estimate. And once they suspect you’ve been shoplifting, they will alert the sales floor to keep an eye on you, making it even easier to figure out what you took. Though the point of alerting the sales floor is to send sales people at you every couple minutes to send a not-so-subtle message that you’re being watched. Because they’d still rather you not shoplift any further than deal with the hassle of losing $500+ of merch and then get the police involved. So if you’ve ever been harangued by retail employees asking if you need help, then chances are they think you’re a theft risk. or it's a place with commission. Sure pal I could use your help, get your numbers up and try to sell me the extended warranty on that SD card you're going to go run and get for me.
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Apr 7, 2023 05:53
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