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Keyser_Soze posted:"competent fascist" in this scenario is cold, calculated and efficient not loud, inefficient and farty like Dumb Donnie I'd say Bill Barr is an example of someone who is this. He was Trump's most effective lackey. He actually had the intelligence, institutional knowledge, and efficacy to get his idea of president as a holy god-king through the hoops. But Trump undermined then stabbed him in the back like he does everyone else. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 17:29
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Morrow posted:Trump had no issues bullying children, he bullied everyone equally. DeSantis can only literally bully children so that's what he goes after. The main differences between the two's bullying are
Trump would steal candy from a baby, call a press conference to announce how amazingly he stole that baby's candy, then call the baby a dog and forever after insist the baby respected him so much that the baby gave him the candy as a bribe. DeSantis would look all over for the baby's mom, steal the candy when he was sure nobody would confront him, and then deny he did it while also openly eating the candy just so long as the baby's mom wasn't around to call him out to his face.
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Apr 8, 2023 17:30
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https://twitter.com/the_law_boy/status/1644524145773023232?s=46&t=6HOSYVrXffESMo0NlyR0Lg
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Apr 8, 2023 17:31
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Wistful of Dollars posted:https://twitter.com/the_law_boy/status/1644524145773023232?s=46&t=6HOSYVrXffESMo0NlyR0Lg One of the Judiciary's most humiliating and lawless moments? Canceling a drug? Sir, this is America. That poo poo ain't even making the 3rd volume of the humiliating and lawless moments anthology.
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Apr 8, 2023 17:35
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Quixzlizx posted:I'm not even trying to assume the inherent goodness in people, I meant that a grown man who focuses on bullying children comes off as weak and pathetic to anyone who isn't completely submerged in the cool zone. About 30-35% of the US population gets a thrill out of seeing the strong torment the weak.
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Apr 8, 2023 17:43
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Gyges posted:The issue is that both parties as they are now divvied up their their factional issues and priorities post Carter, and haven't really changed much since Clinton. The calcification of which groups and ideologies align with each party naturally led to position homogeneity of the parties. While the GOP is still an unholy alliance of Bible Trumpeters, Libertarians, Racists, Fascists, and the Chamber of Commerce, decades of alliance and proximity have lead all the groups to largely believe the same things. The end result is that instead of throwing sops and platitudes to disparate groups, they're throwing sops and platitudes to a single group. I wouldn't say that. There's still clearly different factions with different interests in the GOP. The problem is that they've all been convinced by right-wing media that the Democrats are literally pure evil, and therefore they all have no choice but to tolerate the extreme ideologies of their fellow Republicans. The "just cut my taxes and deregulate my business, I don't care about literally anything else" faction may not be on board with the extreme anti-abortion stuff, but Fox News has informed them that the Democrats are literally communists who plan to raise taxes through the roof and ban private business, so they feel they need to support the Dems' opposition no matter what. Even if the extreme anti-abortion types aren't on board with the racism and tax cuts, Fox has informed them that the Dems plan to make baby murder mandatory, so they have no choice but to support the other party no matter what. And so on. Quixzlizx posted:Does DeSantis making individual people (specifically kids) cry and suffer play well outside of dementia and lead-ridden boomers and other deplorables? I feel like a grown man bullying specific children as individuals still doesn't play that well, even for people who are fine with making an abstract class of people suffer. I don't even remember Trump doing that too often. DeSantis' supporters would say that he's not bullying the kids, he's rescuing them from woke brainwashing, and any tears and suffering are caused exclusively by the brainwashers.
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Apr 8, 2023 17:44
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is pepsi ok posted:"Competent fascist" was always the wrong framing for DeSantis. It should be something more like "guy who appeals to the MAGA base but is still friendly to/controlled by the Republican establishment." Yeah, in his case, it's more like the same Trumpian stuff without the showbiz, cheesy marketing and...hoopla. Except that most of the GOP base not only loves all that stupid poo poo, but is going to require it going forward. To the MAGA base, Trump's impeachments and arrest are POSITIVE things, a little bit like rappers getting dinged by cops or going to jail. Republican Street Cred, if you will. I still think that Desantis stands a decent chance of being the nominee, depending on the number of clowns in the primary, and that he can certainly win an election against Biden. No one is excited was excited about Joe Biden then, is now, or is going to be 2 years from now. I'd go as far as to say that Ron has a better chance in the general than Donald, but less of a chance in the primary, especially in a crowded field. A lot of people who are saying that Desantis has no chance may have been the same ones saying Trump would never sniff the nomination, let alone beat Hillary. Things can change fast and I don't think that old rules apply anymore.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:22
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Gumball Gumption posted:My whole point is that Trump isn't an outlier and was mostly unlucky and unfocused. As for “unfocused,” Trump is definitely terrible at doing anything “executive” or really anything that isn’t drawing attention to himself. And that limits his effectiveness. The open question is how much “being terrible at everything” is part of his political appeal.
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Apr 8, 2023 18:47
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Mellow Seas posted:The open question is how much “being terrible at everything” is part of his political appeal. Considering that's how the Tea Party nutcases and their successors got elected I'd say it's a key component 
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Apr 8, 2023 19:02
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Main Paineframe posted:I can't really think of any legal justification for the federal government to get involved. This poo poo is stupid and petty, but it's not a federal crime. Civil Rights violations. Seriously federalize their national guard and escort the ousted legislators back into the capitol.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:26
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I’ve been hearing the bolded poo poo for decades and yet the republicans have more power than ever before and are on track to have a competent fascist in the presidency (DeSantis) with the most ineffectual Dems in modern history. I agree. Look at the glacial pace of the DOJ Jan 6th stuff. Imagine the tables turned. The GOP would have had the trials of Democrat leadership within a month.
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Apr 8, 2023 19:31
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To be fair there was a trial of Trump within a month, it was just a political one (with a predetermined outcome - although that outcome wasn’t obvious until Jan 9-10 or so.)
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Apr 8, 2023 19:55
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VideoGameVet posted:Civil Rights violations. Seriously. Are there any standards for state elections or is it entirely up to state constitutions? Can a state just elect a dictator?
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Apr 8, 2023 20:13
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Mellow Seas posted:I don’t know if you can really call a candidate who lost the popular vote by 2% and won anyway “unlucky”. The flip side of that is he mostly lost due to being president during a once in a lifetime event. No pandemic and the election is wildly different. Either way the point is he mostly failed because of himself and circumstances, not strong opposition, and without strong opposition which can keep fascists out of power they're going to keep getting chances to seize it. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 20:24
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Yeah, and Trump can pin the pandemic on the whole Fauci Biolab conspiracy stuff now. “Things were great until that man made virus leaked from Fauci’s lab. Lock him up etc etc.”
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Apr 8, 2023 20:28
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Gumball Gumption posted:The flip side of that is he mostly lost due to being president during a once in a lifetime event. No pandemic and the election is wildly different. Either way the point is he mostly failed because of himself and circumstances, not strong opposition, and without strong opposition which can keep fascists out of power they're going to keep getting chances to seize it. You could make the argument that it only became a world-historic event because trump did so badly at containing it. There have been novel respiratory viruses emerging from China for like 20 years at this point. None of the other ones caught on like this.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:32
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Gumball Gumption posted:The flip side of that is he mostly lost due to being president during a once in a lifetime event. No pandemic and the election is wildly different. Either way the point is he mostly failed because of himself and circumstances, not strong opposition, and without strong opposition which can keep fascists out of power they're going to keep getting chances to seize it. Trump lost by the margins late 2019 polls against Biden predicted, in a year where right-wing strongmen the world over were taking advantage of covid to get a rally around the flag. People who call him a fascist are still talking up the relief checks he signed like they were his idea. The idea that Trump would have cruised to victory without covid feels as weirdly imaginary as the idea that Clinton would have lost even harder if she was running against Jeb. The wonder is that he was so incompetent he wasn't able to work covid more to his advantage like so many others.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:36
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I AM GRANDO posted:You could make the argument that it only became a world-historic event because trump did so badly at containing it. There have been novel respiratory viruses emerging from China for like 20 years at this point. None of the other ones caught on like this. Good point, imagine the nightmare if someone with Trump's disposition was able to do something and turn it into a win where the big strong fascist daddy actually really did protect people.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:37
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Gumball Gumption posted:The flip side of that is he mostly lost due to being president during a once in a lifetime event. No pandemic and the election is wildly different. I mean his handling of it kinda cemented what Trump is/was and there is not telling what the economy was going to be going into to spring/summer but we are doing counterfactuals that we can't possibly know the effect of. DeSantis COULD win the Presidency, sure but we also know that a stiff breeze causes him to meltdown pretty easily. he has never really faced a political challenge before either, so if any Republican even sniffs momentum, we don't know how he will react. I think we are susceptible to the same irrationality of the public, CNN and the mainstream media is setting up a DeSantis/Biden fight and we think DeSantis is strong because of said coverage. We see people talking about DeSantis, we assume that he has appeal and so on and so forth. I am not saying that the Democratic Party or Biden shouldn't think they are going to coast to victory but we are talking like we are doomed and I think in April of 2023 making these prognostications before the public is even paying attention is foolhardy and a way to entrench your own beliefs.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:40
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I AM GRANDO posted:You could make the argument that it only became a world-historic event because trump did so badly at containing it. There have been novel respiratory viruses emerging from China for like 20 years at this point. None of the other ones caught on like this. Crazy that 4 short years ago trump was president of the entire world. Time really flies
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Apr 8, 2023 20:45
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Killer robot posted:Trump lost by the margins late 2019 polls against Biden predicted, in a year where right-wing strongmen the world over were taking advantage of covid to get a rally around the flag.  I think Trump is the luckiest politician of the modern era, really. Nixon was pretty lucky, until he got caught going too far. Obviously Ford was extremely lucky to be president, but the circumstances that put him in office also made his time there pretty unproductive. e: Oh yeah, actually, now that I think about it, the guy who was only ever a candidate because of who his father was, who also lost the popular vote, and who temporarily gained near-ubiquitous popularity as the direct result of his own massive national security failure, that's probably the luckiest politician. (He was going to get saddled with that 2001 recession no matter what, though.) Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 21:07
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I AM GRANDO posted:You could make the argument that it only became a world-historic event because trump did so badly at containing it. There have been novel respiratory viruses emerging from China for like 20 years at this point. None of the other ones caught on like this. You could make that argument, if you ignored everything about how it spread like wildfire through Europe first. Trumps response, or lack thereof, definitely made everything much worse globally though
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Apr 8, 2023 21:10
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Keyser_Soze posted:"competent fascist" in this scenario is cold, calculated and efficient not loud, inefficient and farty like Dumb Donnie The thing is the loud inefficient farting is part of Trump's appeal. The Claremont Institute nazis want someone calculated and efficient but a substantial number of Republican voters want the guy who yells slurs loudest and don't really care about policy (obviously there are policy implications to picking the guy who yells slurs loudest, but it's secondary). Gumball Gumption posted:The flip side of that is he mostly lost due to being president during a once in a lifetime event. No pandemic and the election is wildly different. I suspect covid helped Trump. Other countries mostly reelected their leaders and the government transferred a huge amount of money to average people.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:23
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Failed Imagineer posted:You could make that argument, if you ignored everything about how it spread like wildfire through Europe first. Trumps response, or lack thereof, definitely made everything much worse globally though Didn’t the US play a role in containing SARS, bird flu, swine flu in collaboration with the WHO? I guess I don’t actually know.
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Apr 8, 2023 22:09
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Mendrian posted:Seriously. Article IV Section 4 says “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government…” And that’s it for your question.
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Apr 8, 2023 22:24
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I AM GRANDO posted:Didn’t the US play a role in containing SARS, bird flu, swine flu in collaboration with the WHO? I guess I don’t actually know. certainly did, and Trump did a real number on our support for the WHO
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Apr 8, 2023 22:46
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Google Jeb Bush posted:certainly did, and Trump did a real number on our support for the WHO And dismantled the programs that were put in place to look out for and get information on possible new pandemics.
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Apr 8, 2023 23:42
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its a bit of a scapegoat / easy figure head to attack and probably has no data to back it up, but I like to think the english speaking countries that have a Rupert Murdoch media machine (the US, UK, and AU) have had worse covid outcomes. like for whatever reason that piece of poo poo really really hated pandemic measures.
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Apr 9, 2023 00:21
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James Garfield posted:I suspect covid helped Trump. Other countries mostly reelected their leaders and the government transferred a huge amount of money to average people. I'm not sure I undrstand what you are saying here. Are you saying that Trump would have lost even worse than he did in the election if not for covid?
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Apr 9, 2023 00:29
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Zwabu posted:I'm not sure I undrstand what you are saying here. Are you saying that Trump would have lost even worse than he did in the election if not for covid? Trump would have lost even worse in the election if not for covid.
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Apr 9, 2023 00:38
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Morrow posted:Trump would have lost even worse in the election if not for covid. I guess I have to disagree. I feel like there's a significant number of voters who voted Biden or didn't turn out who would have happily voted Trump if the stock market was still riding high, no new war and he hadn't demonstrated a chaotic and corrupt nonresponse to Covid. Likely enough to win him the election IMO. Edit: And yes, instead of covid (IMO) hurting Trump he could have easily used it to shore up support and win crossover votes if he'd made even the weakest most token attempt to look like he was trying to do something instead of following his first and only instinct in all things, stoking division and hatred. Zwabu fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Apr 9, 2023 |
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Apr 9, 2023 00:49
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Blind Pineapple posted:Reminds me of the early 2000s when there was no shortage of Dems who said "marriage is between one man and one woman" because it was easier than taking a stand for a marginalized group. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. There was an awful lot of waffling. Kalit posted:While you’re not 100% wrong with this statement, there was no reason why it couldn’t have been “queer people are allowed to serve in the military”. It didn’t even need legislative support. Hell, I was a child when it was implemented and I still knew it was a bullshit policy. It stopped the witch-hunts. It wasn’t good, but it *was* better than what proceeded it.
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Apr 9, 2023 01:37
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Morrow posted:Trump would have lost even worse in the election if not for covid. Greater deaths in red districts. So no. He would have won without COVID.
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Apr 9, 2023 02:06
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VideoGameVet posted:Greater deaths in red districts. So no. He would have won without COVID. This is only the case now, post-vaccination, partly because Republicans are less likely to be vaccinated. The blue/red county COVID death divide flipped in 2021, so during the 2020 election way more people in Democratic counties died. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate What was happening during the election were Republican states getting hit harder, partly because they didn't have the waves that Democratic states already had, and also because restrictions were much more relaxed in Republican states. And these people came out to vote for a Republican who was partly responsible for their families' deaths in record numbers. I've long maintained that COVID actually helped Trump as it was able to create a divide between Rs and Ds and radicalize and rally conservatives even further. Republicans may have slept through 2020 otherwise while Democrats had plenty to be angry about then. I AM GRANDO posted:You could make the argument that it only became a world-historic event because trump did so badly at containing it. There have been novel respiratory viruses emerging from China for like 20 years at this point. None of the other ones caught on like this. While Trump did do one of the most terrible jobs of any world leader re COVID, you can't compare the other viruses to it. It was much more transmissible, did not have a death rate as high as the others (which would make transmission less likely), and about a third of people were asymptomatic. And yes, as it was pointed out, no country was able to truly contain COVID like they contained the other viruses. small butter fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Apr 9, 2023 |
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Apr 9, 2023 02:20
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small butter posted:
China, Vietnam, New Zealand and Australia would beg to differ.
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Apr 9, 2023 02:38
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the_steve posted:The "competent fascist" thing is just cope by people who are still desperate to convince themselves that Trump was some sort of wild outlier and fluke that could totally never happen again. trump isn't a "fascist": he has no idea what that word means or how it's to be accomplished: trump has no beliefs to direct him to be anything but trump. trump is a collection of broken personality traits that equals a fascist. trump's goal wasn't to destabilize the country to further the agenda of fascists: he just wanted to do crimes and have everyone kiss his rear end. him destroying faith in the media wasn't to help usher in the only legitimate elected officials being republicans: he just wanted to get back at the mean people saying he has a tiny dick. desantis fully believes that fascism is the best way to accomplish his goals. trump uses 70 years of being a spoiled rich failson and whiny bitch to inform his agenda and goals.
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Apr 9, 2023 02:52
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Oracle posted:China, Vietnam, New Zealand and Australia would beg to differ. No, because they were still able to contain COVID less than any of the other viruses from Asia over the past two decades. The original argument was comparing SARS, etc. to COVID and musing why we were able to contain those viruses but not COVID.
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Apr 9, 2023 03:21
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Zwabu posted:I'm not sure I undrstand what you are saying here. Are you saying that Trump would have lost even worse than he did in the election if not for covid? Pretty much. I think the kind of person who blames Trump for covid (e.g. me) was always going to vote for Democrats anyway. Republican states weren't getting hit as hard by covid (it changed in the winter 2020-21 wave), a lot of people were better off because CARES was really good, and the kind of person who would have voted Democratic because Democrats controlling the house was why CARES was good wasn't a swing voter either.
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Apr 9, 2023 03:28
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What demographics were the ones who swung against Trump the hardest? Also probably helps that even despite everything to be said about Biden in 2020, his campaign seemed to be actually trying or at least not actively self-sabotaging as much.
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Apr 9, 2023 05:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What demographics were the ones who swung against Trump the hardest? There's been a 10 point pro-dem swing in most races since the Dobbs ruling.
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Apr 9, 2023 09:00
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