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Beeftweeter posted:lol it does load i wonder what scripting language flash uses
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Mar 27, 2023 01:07
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FlapYoJacks posted:Yeah, the generally accepted best practice for UI is QT QML “gently caress it lets use android” is also a surprise option. especially if you have a GPU supporting android’s vulkan stuff
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Mar 27, 2023 01:11
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i wish buildroot had support for modern nvidia drivers
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Mar 27, 2023 01:12
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nudgenudgetilt posted:i wish buildroot had support for modern nvidia drivers It does? The NVIDIA driver package is updated on a fairly regular basis. edit: never mind. Its way out of date now lmfao. I think I found a new project!
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Mar 27, 2023 01:19
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yeah, i think it tops out with pascal cards right now
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Mar 27, 2023 01:26
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nudgenudgetilt posted:yeah, i think it tops out with pascal cards right now I’ll see what is going on right now. It’s probably a bunch of new dependencies or some poo poo that make it difficult to update the package. right up my alley.
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Mar 27, 2023 01:29
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At first glance, it looks like the 390 driver series was the last series to support x86 32bit. I'll submit a patch to update to the 590 series and drop 32bit support.
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Mar 27, 2023 01:43
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Here's a patch that updates the nvidia-driver package. Apply with 'patch -p1 <' like normal. There is a discussion about updating the NVIDIA drivers to the 500 series here. Seems like they want a split package for legacy support and nobody got around to it.
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Mar 27, 2023 02:36
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Beeftweeter posted:lol it does load 
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Mar 27, 2023 03:02
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lol!
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Mar 27, 2023 06:49
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FlapYoJacks posted:Here's a patch that updates the nvidia-driver package. Apply with 'patch -p1 <' like normal. 
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Mar 27, 2023 11:07
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FlapYoJacks posted:Here's a patch that updates the nvidia-driver package. Apply with 'patch -p1 <' like normal. you are such a rockstar
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Mar 27, 2023 12:58
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FlapYoJacks posted:Yeah, the generally accepted best practice for UI is QT QML Does qt still have massive license costs? I remember looking at it for a product once, and they wanted some crazy number like 20k/year for the privilege of using their software. Product ended up using a framebuffer and OpenGL, if I remember correctly. Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 13:01
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MrMoo posted:Embedded with a display is surprisingly an incredibly underserved market considering the number of tiny screens out there. I hate all the options. make a UI using curses (or a real forms framework) and use the tiny screen as an ANSI/xterm-256color terminal if you want something more attach the tiny screen to an X server and write something for X11, it’s low-overhead and has worked acceptably for decades at this point if you for some reason want to avoid X11 then just port MGR, it’s even lower-overhead quote:I want Electron in an embedded image with easy updates. Somehow after many years of existence this still isn’t a thing. what the gently caress no you don’t this attitude that one has to have a GPU and compositing and a loving JavaScript based UI framework to do UI is absolutely loving insane you could do decent UI on an 8MHz 68000 with a not-insane amount of effort, and by the time you get to a 16MHz 68030 and the most basic 2D graphics acceleration, even less effort gets you something buttery smooth for a reasonable user interface
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Mar 27, 2023 13:22
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from now on you can imagine a thousand word disclaimer on each of my posts acknowledging that running electron on an embedded device will not optimize the function (user experience * 1/(bom cost)). I don’t feel like copy pasting it so simply rotate it in your mind. there are companies out there, including mine, who are making their first embedded device that has a screen, having already shipped an electron app for a while. there’s a bunch of middleware implemented in browserjs using recent ish standards; there’s a bunch of ui flows (model? I don’t know the formalism) that are implemented in react or whatever that are separable from the view that you need to change to make it work on a small touchscreen. the business is neither interested in rewriting all that - either in another language or in a flavor of browser js that something like qt webview can do - and they are not interested in then maintaining an app that is that different. it’s sort of hard to blame them. under that framework, it’s sometimes legitimately a good idea if you can afford it to get a processor that can run electron acceptably. the ideal case for this situation, and what will happen eventually almost certainly, is that someone makes a project somewhat like electron (browser engine paired with either a very limited message passing interface to a node process or a very contained api for outside-the-browser-api interactions) that doesn’t involve vendoring all of loving chrome. someday, oh someday. in the meantime, you can get this poo poo to work, and the trade off you get for all that loving disk space is that it works surprisingly well on less resources than you’d think given that chrome wasn’t made for embedded devices
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Mar 27, 2023 13:38
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ultimately, I guess my point is: embedded development is a very big tent. it is “any programmable part that is not presented to the user as a general-purpose computer”. this often but not always intersects with cost or energy usage constraints. it always intersects with supply chain constraints both on the hardware side and the software side. sometimes your device is a dog collar with a gps antenna and a cell modem that needs to run weeks without recharging and have a $10 bom; sometimes it is a robot that in past decades would have an OEM windows pc with an fpga pcie card, has a bunch of $1000/unit actuators and runs on a bus bar and the cost of any kind of silicon falls right out. like most other kinds of non software engineering, embedded engineering is about optimizing an over constrained system in which some of the constraints are economic, and some of the constraints are social, and this does not always lead to implementations that are technically clean and minimalistic. anyway someone make me a good electron bbclass my giant monolithic do_compile is killing me
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Mar 27, 2023 13:46
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nothing can run electron acceptably.
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Mar 27, 2023 14:29
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lol i don't think you're gonna get anyone in here to say "its fine to run electron on an embedded device"
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Mar 27, 2023 15:16
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Beeftweeter posted:lol i don't think you're gonna get anyone in here to say "its fine to run electron on an embedded device" We don’t kink shame here.
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Mar 27, 2023 15:22
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Beeftweeter posted:lol i don't think you're gonna get anyone in here to say "its fine to run electron on an embedded device" Electron is fine if you have a bunch of RAM and you don’t care about performance. I’ve worked on industrial machines that used Yocto for traceability / version-control, but could easily run desktop Linux from a specs perspective. On those kinds of systems, electron is fine.
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Mar 27, 2023 15:58
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i think the easiest real defense of electron is that in 2023 you'll get a better ui going electron than any other option. not because of technology, but if you hire ui/ux people that's the tooling space they'll expect to work with and what will let them work the most effectively. ultimately the technology details are kind of irrelevant, as contrary to the point of yospos as that is.
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Mar 27, 2023 16:04
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Beeftweeter posted:lol i don't think you're gonna get anyone in here to say "its fine to run electron on an embedded device" FlapYoJacks posted:We don’t kink shame here.
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Mar 27, 2023 16:37
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everything is “fine”, you just need to sandbox/lock it down enough …says the sandbox seller
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Mar 27, 2023 16:38
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Can a digital signage device not be an embedded device? They and commercial TVs are all on embedded hardware for a particular purpose. Yocto and others like to push embedded-WebKit, which is actually not too bad and has GPU support explicitly: it’s funded by Comcast for set-top-boxes (STBs) . However that means custom clunky integration that has more friction than Electron. A lot of people just re-invent Electron even worse than the real thing. Go, Python, VBScript (loving BrightSign), have all been abused to such intent. Advances in technology have made support of WebKit or Blink pretty much moot at the hardware level for a lot of targets. People seem to forget 2007 and the iPhone running a full Safari process and friends. LG TVs run WebOS which is Linux X Qt5 X Embedded Blink. The security is poo poo and ability to track Blink updates very slow. They have been, like many others, stuck at Chrome 85-ish for the past 3 years as the Qt team had to rewrite everything to support the updated security models. Somehow in the majority of signage devices you cannot actually stream video, unlike all the media players which easily achieve it. They advertise support but it doesn’t work, and because the stack is so old you have to use some clunky proprietary API to download media onto the local speedy SD card storage which then suffers from high transaction rates as nothing is cached in memory even with 8GB rams in a TV. MrMoo fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 19:18
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electron is going to take us to mars you fools
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Mar 27, 2023 19:20
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Samsung still has a 👑 for making a fork of Eclipse that auto-updates when run. The literal only tool to target their hardware will auto-update to a version that has dropped support for **ALL** the TV hardware you can actually purchase.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:30
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Yocto provides standard recipes for Chromium and embedded-WebKit, the full desktop browser, and a bare renderer. Opposite ends of the spectrum. If anything Electron should be promoted for a lot of the security policy they implement: process separation and sandboxing, which far exceeds that what would expect of many embedded engineers.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:41
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MrMoo posted:Samsung still has a 👑 for making a fork of Eclipse that auto-updates when run. The literal only tool to target their hardware will auto-update to a version that has dropped support for **ALL** the TV hardware you can actually purchase. they're just trying to be nice and shield you from actually having to work with tizen
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Mar 27, 2023 19:43
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There’s an STB video streaming company that made a WebGL based HTML renderer and open sourced it. All because Chromium was too slow for Netflix style UI on an embedded device.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:45
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The_Franz posted:they're just trying to be nice and shield you from actually having to work with tizen If you think Tizen is bad, you can still buy Ultra-Wide 86” panels running Orsay, that is their previous OS. The only debug route for a HTML-only platform is a RS-232 serial port.  Someone made an open source version of devtools called Weinre and that can be used instead, as long as you have Chrome before v65 as Google broke keyboard input support in the console. I don’t know how anyone is using that hardware as we couldn’t get it to run with a static webpage for more than 5 hours without crashing. The goal was to replace LED clocks on the NYSE trade floor, and they couldn’t last a single trading session.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:52
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Poopernickel posted:Does qt still have massive license costs? I remember looking at it for a product once, and they wanted some crazy number like 20k/year for the privilege of using their software. Product ended up using a framebuffer and OpenGL, if I remember correctly. Yes, but if it's a commercial product, then $20,000/year should be nothing to your company for an easy-to-use, well-supported, well-documented, consistently and quickly updated, works with drat near every language UX framework. Then again, companies are cheap shits so 
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Mar 27, 2023 20:01
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i dare anyone in here working with Yocto to try to enable CONFIG_DEVMEM (specifically this, not others) in the linux-intel kernel being built gently caress me that was a trial to work out
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Apr 8, 2023 00:18
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I assume “bitbake linux-yocto -c menuconfig” is cheating
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Apr 8, 2023 01:01
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it's not, but just using fragment .cfgs won't work and you'll spend hours building it only to see devmem not set in /proc/config.gz when you boot it. 'least for linux-intel anyway, idk about linux-yocto or whatever other kernels there's some security "kernel_feature" or something that overrides changes to config_devmem (among others probably) in the kernel's metadata. took me a day to work that out then 2 more of futilely struggling with kernel config fragments before i learned about .scc files from a random listserv message Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 01:33
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MrMoo posted:an open source version of devtools called Weinre
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Apr 8, 2023 02:30
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Yocto's kernel config fragments are undocumented, undiscoverable garbage and they're also trash Keep your defconfig out-of-tree and just copy it in as a do_patch step. Edit it, save it, and replace your tracked copy. On embedded systems, this is also a good way to handle custom device trees. You can set it up with a bbappend. I'll admit to having a 🍆 for yocto, but their kernel config system is holy-poo poo bad from a user experience perspective. Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 02:37
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lol everytime I hear about Yocto woes I laugh and go back to Buildroot. Yeah, it has its warts, but at least I can change a Linux defconfig and apply fragments with ease.
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Apr 8, 2023 02:45
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Poopernickel posted:Yocto's kernel config fragments are undocumented, undiscoverable garbage and they're also trash Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 02:48
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gently caress me i decided on a whim to ask chatgpt about that issue and it got the almost-solution it took me 3 days to reach, in like 5 seconds 
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Apr 9, 2023 20:28
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Ciaphas posted:gently caress me i decided on a whim to ask chatgpt about that issue and it got the almost-solution it took me 3 days to reach, in like 5 seconds ChatGPT is amazing for things like this. 
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Apr 9, 2023 21:02
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