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Cross-posted from the Home Zone: I determined the higher pitched "buzzing" from my heat pump head unit is the motor(s) for the louvers. I'm not sure why they have to activate so much...maybe i need to adjust the setting for them to be just, like... "regular open all the way" and not "automatic"? But the last couple days (so basically half the time I've had it) it's been making a tick/clicking sound from the fan. Hard to hear, but best video I can get on my crummy phone's camera: https://i.imgur.com/eVIU1li.mp4 It makes that noise the ENTIRE time the fan is on, so, that's, like...basically all the time the unit is working. That seems like a not normal noise, but I'm 100% sure if I call the installers back they'll just tell me, "Well of COURSE it's going to make some noise!" But that's definitely not a normal amount, right? I've been in places with heat pumps and none made a constant clicking like that. One poster thinks both sounds aren't normal: His Divine Shadow posted:I got what visually looks to be an identical unit in my shop, it's probably not the same but a mitsubishi anyway. I'll get a video when I get home today of the "buzzing" / louver motor and people can determine if that's also too loud. I just want to make sure when I contact the installer I have at least a little bit of "backup" when I say it's louder than a head unit should be.
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Apr 7, 2023 12:59
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I'll try and record a video of mine when it's running
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Apr 7, 2023 14:02
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Phone didn't want to upload it to imgur so I had to use youtube. I've never really touched the settings, just set it to maintain a base temp. I fiddled with the controls and tried to get the vanes to move and the fan to run as hard as it could. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFhCM71Y4_4 Too bad the fan blowing into the microphone made a lot of noise, but at some points I manage to clear the air stream and you can hear pretty well the noise level of the machine and it's basically never this loud, just because I tried to make it loud. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 7, 2023 |
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Apr 7, 2023 14:27
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DrBouvenstein posted:Cross-posted from the Home Zone: Sounds to be like it could be a bad bearing in a fan.
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Apr 7, 2023 17:25
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Thanks, you've convinced me it's not a normal sound. Send an email to the installer w/ the video clip, hopefully I can get them out here cause it is louder in person than on the video, too.
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Apr 7, 2023 18:01
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If its the dampers there is often an option on the thermostat/remote for those for no damper movement. If you can find this it may help narrow down where the noise is coming from.
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Apr 7, 2023 23:12
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So I had a new boiler put in. It works but sometimes the control relay chatters loudly. After installation it didn't do it when the guy was here installing and testing, but after he left it started. I can duplicate sometimes by letting it heat and then turning the thermostat down so it cuts out and starts to chatter, but it's not every time. The electrician is coming back to check it but I wanted to be prepared to discuss the issue. I have a nest first gen thermostat and the internet says I may need an isolation relay. I checked boiler paperwork and the manual and they do sell one, and it has a different contact for the thermostat. Alternatively I can dump the Nest and get a different non-smart one. Any thoughts?
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Apr 8, 2023 05:31
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Yes, put in an iso relay. The nest is trying to draw power through the relay without closing it. Or, run a c wire.if you have another conductor in the stat cable.
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Apr 8, 2023 13:13
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MRC48B posted:Yes, put in an iso relay. The nest is trying to draw power through the relay without closing it. I have a c wire already to the Nest. Does that change the equation? The guy is here now looking at it btw, hasn't said anything yet.
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Apr 8, 2023 14:22
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Throw the nest in the trash where it belongs. It sounds like one of the SSRs is failing. If that's not what's happening right here it's what will eventually happen, and possibly in a way that damages your equipment.
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Apr 8, 2023 14:27
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Motronic posted:Throw the nest in the trash where it belongs. that's fair, I've had the nest for probably 5 years. The HVAC guy installed a regular boring battery thermostat for now. I can order the relay and put the Nest back in, but if you have suggestion on a wifi thermostat (I have a C wire and can get a relay if needed) .
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Apr 8, 2023 14:36
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Super-NintendoUser posted:that's fair, I've had the nest for probably 5 years. The HVAC guy installed a regular boring battery thermostat for now. I can order the relay and put the Nest back in, but if you have suggestion on a wifi thermostat (I have a C wire and can get a relay if needed) . Ecobees never seem to cause the kind of chaos and damage nest thermostats pretty routinely do. If you must have a wifi thermostat, that would be the one I'd pick.
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Apr 8, 2023 14:44
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Motronic posted:Ecobees never seem to cause the kind of chaos and damage nest thermostats pretty routinely do. If you must have a wifi thermostat, that would be the one I'd pick. One of my friends works for Honeywell (he's the one that got me the boiler at cost), and is going to get me a basic honeywell wifi thermostat.
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Apr 8, 2023 15:10
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Super-NintendoUser posted:One of my friends works for Honeywell (he's the one that got me the boiler at cost), and is going to get me a basic honeywell wifi thermostat. Even better - I don't know what those can do but I at least trust an known insustrial/resi controls company to make proper controls. If it does whatever "smart" things you think you need awesome. I have z wave stats in my house, hooked up to my local only home automation. The only thing I use this for is setting back the heat at night, like I could do with a $40 programmable not at all wifi thermostat. Outside of vacation cabins, etc I'm not quite sure I understand the value proposition of connected thermostats.
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Apr 8, 2023 15:30
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So fun update. We installed a boring old cheap thermostat and let the boiler cycle for an hour and no buzz. Then an hour later the buzzing started. I already ordered the relay but I think I'll call the mfg and file a warranty claim for the main transformer and control relay: https://www.partstoyourdoor.com/peerless-50787-transformer-40va-johnson-y65t42-0-earlier-models-only
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Apr 8, 2023 18:35
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We had an HVAC guy out to do yearly maintenance, and he said it looks mostly okay except for a couple things: - Dual capacitor is a little rusty, and reading 39 (rated for 45) - Compressor amps are reading high at 9.1 (I believe he said they should be in a range of 4-7, the last inspection record I found from the POs from 2021 says it was at 7) He recommended replacing the capacitor and performing some sort of service on the compressor (I forget the specifics, he did mention some sort of oil) to help rejuvenate it a little. The unit is 11 years old. I know next to nothing about all this. Do these values seem out of range enough to warrant attention? Am I one hot day away from the unit imploding and an expensive service call, or is this just expected for a unit of this age and I should save the money towards a full replacement in the coming years? Thanks!
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Apr 9, 2023 15:07
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Dr. Eldarion posted:We had an HVAC guy out to do yearly maintenance, and he said it looks mostly okay except for a couple things: Cap replacements are cheap and easy to do so I don't see any reason not to do that. I keep spares on hand for my unit, just in case. Adding oil to the refrigerant line might help, but compressors pulling higher amps can be from a lot of things that oil may or may not help. Did he hook up gauges and check out your refrigerant levels while he was there? Would you mind sharing the prices he quoted you?
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Apr 9, 2023 16:48
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In other news, someone donated a truckload of Ecobee sensors to the local Habitat ReStore, and I bartered the guy down at the counter to selling me some for $4 each. So now I have temperature sensors in every room of my house, garage, and crawl space. 
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Apr 9, 2023 19:10
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SpartanIvy posted:Cap replacements are cheap and easy to do so I don't see any reason not to do that. I keep spares on hand for my unit, just in case. Yeah, he said the refrigerant levels were fine. Capacitor replacement was quoted at $340, condenser service was quoted at $290. + 10% off if I signed up for their "pro service plan" which would essentially pay for itself after this since it would include a free furnace service in the fall. These were set up as two different quotes for some reason though, so I don't know if it would end up cheaper doing them together. I'm not super confident that I wouldn't end up in the ER trying to change the capacitor myself, but it's possible my dad would be comfortable with it since he's done a ton of electrical work professionally.
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Apr 9, 2023 23:19
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Motronic posted:Even better - I don't know what those can do but I at least trust an known insustrial/resi controls company to make proper controls. If it does whatever "smart" things you think you need awesome. Do you have a Honeywell T6 Motronic? I was looking around for some basic ones that I can still integrate into HomeAssistant—I basically want to be able to set it back when I’m away and forgot to change it, and it would be nice to have an internal humidity sensor as well.
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Apr 9, 2023 23:40
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Hed posted:Do you have a Honeywell T6 Motronic? I was looking around for some basic ones that I can still integrate into HomeAssistant—I basically want to be able to set it back when I’m away and forgot to change it, and it would be nice to have an internal humidity sensor as well. I am using one of these upstairs on the AC only zone: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZIRV40K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I used to have one on the downstairs zone also. Both worked great in home assistant, until they didn't after a upgrade. So I got an old Radio Thermostat CT100 that I put downstairs then at least everything worked for that one. Now those bad old days of HA are long gone with Z-Wave JS and both work - I just left the CT100 downstairs because who cares....whatever works works but I have a spare Go Control one if it ever stops.
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Apr 10, 2023 00:12
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Capacitor replacement was quoted at $340 Cap at $340 while they were already there on a paid annual service call is highway robbery. I paid less than that in the depths of summer in southern california for a dedicated trip. It's easily DIY'd if you are willing to work carefully.
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Apr 10, 2023 00:31
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Yeah, he said the refrigerant levels were fine. $340 is insane for a capacitor replacement. The capacitor for my unit is $40. Installation takes maybe 20 minutes your first time doing it. Then 5 minutes every time after. Be careful with what your hands touch and be sure to discharge the old capacitor before removing it and you're golden. Seriously it's this easy for most units: 1. Cut power at the breaker 2. Undo a screw or two to access the compartment on the side that contains the capacitor 3. Take a few pictures of the old capacitor hooked up before doing anything, so you can easily reference where wires go in the future if needed 4. Take some pliers with rubber handles and short out the 3 sets of wire terminals on the capacitor (this will discharge any current in it) 5. Remove each wire one at a time with the pliers 6. Remove the old capacitor without touching the top terminals just in case 7. Install the new capacitor in it's place 8. Reattach wires one at a time, referencing your previous photos if needed 9. Double check the wires 10. Resecure the side panel covering the capacitor area 11. Turn breaker back on Here's a video of the process (and some more) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWH38Rg1iMI E: and if you need help finding out which capacitor to replace it with, look at the side of your existing capacitor, it will have all the data you need and you can buy the exact same one at SupplyHouse.com. As far as adding the oil, I'm not sure if that price is good or not, but if they're charging $340 for a cap replacement it makes me think it's not worth it. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 01:49
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Thanks for the advice! We called these guys because it's who the POs used for like a decade and had a huge folder of receipts for. Sounds like it might be worth shopping around. Will also look into the DIY approach.
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Apr 10, 2023 03:38
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Thanks for the advice! We called these guys because it's who the POs used for like a decade and had a huge folder of receipts for. Sounds like it might be worth shopping around. Will also look into the DIY approach. Look through the receipts for another capacitor replacement or other services. It's not nuts for them to charge the full hour and 100% markup on the cap for a dedicated "no start" troubleshooting call, but that's like $200-250. Once they're out doing the diagnostic for your annual service, which is also probably $150-$200, then they should sling the cap at the same 100% markup ($65-85) and a quarter labor, if not $0 labor. That's like $100-125 out the door. Now I'm no trade person but that all seems like fair pricing to me. Assuming you aren't using some $40 with filter service call in which case the whole point is to get them in your door to sell you stuff. I mean, maybe just telling them this seem steep I don't know what the old owners paid "but at my last place an annual service with surprise cap replacement was $X. Does that sound like something we could do?" could get you off the boat money fee schedule and onto the lifted pick up schedule. Even if you don't use them next year.
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Apr 10, 2023 04:24
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Motronic posted:Outside of vacation cabins, etc I'm not quite sure I understand the value proposition of connected thermostats. For me it's mostly so I can adjust the tstat without getting up to go to the wall.
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Apr 10, 2023 07:52
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Comrade Gritty posted:For me it's mostly so I can adjust the tstat without getting up to go to the wall. That's exactly the kind of use case I don't understand. All of this expense, complexity and new failure points so you don't have to stand up? Why are you even adjusting your stat so regularly to begin with? The last time I touched either of mine was when I was servicing the units. Otherwise it just runs it's set schedule.
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Apr 10, 2023 14:00
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H110Hawk posted:Look through the receipts for another capacitor replacement or other services. It's not nuts for them to charge the full hour and 100% markup on the cap for a dedicated "no start" troubleshooting call, but that's like $200-250. Once they're out doing the diagnostic for your annual service, which is also probably $150-$200, then they should sling the cap at the same 100% markup ($65-85) and a quarter labor, if not $0 labor. That's like $100-125 out the door. ... yeah the call was $49 so I guess  there!
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Apr 10, 2023 14:07
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Why does it need more oil? It's not like oil changes on residential air conditioners are a thing. It's a sealed system, so unless you had a major leak repaired I can't see why adding more oil would do anything. I've got a spare capacitor and contactor sitting on a shelf. It was $40 total in parts and they're both easily replaced wear items (that inevitably wear out on the hottest day of the year)
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Apr 10, 2023 16:17
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No idea on the oil. I don't remember all of what he said, but he said it's a treatment they do that can help bring the power usage down on older units. Either way, this is listed as a "watchlist item" on the sheet rather than something that's an "immediate concern" so I'm inclined to just let it go for now. Called around today for the capacitor and 3 places wouldn't even give me a rough price without paying to have them come out and do their own diagnosis first, even though I knew exactly what I wanted done. #4 seemed like a smaller outfit (though still rated well) and quoted me $130 for parts/labor which is definitely worth it for me to not risk shocking the hell out of myself. Thanks!
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Apr 11, 2023 21:35
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... the plot thickens. This guy comes out to do the replacement, and is out there for longer than I'd expect. Eventually, he comes back and shows me a couple things: 1) A video of them testing the capacitor and it showing on the instrument as fine, 44.6 / 45. 2) A video of them testing the "blower motor" (presumably, the AC fan motor) and it showing on the instrument as "bad". (the previous guy didn't mention anything related to this) So now I'm super confused. I didn't have any work done. We've had the AC on for the past hour to check it out, and it seems to be running with no issues. Is this just going to be a "use it normally until something definitively fails" thing?
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Apr 12, 2023 00:37
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Dr. Eldarion posted:2) A video of them testing the "blower motor" (presumably, the AC fan motor) and it showing on the instrument as "bad". (the previous guy didn't mention anything related to this) I don't know what this means. What did "the instrument" read in? Amps maybe? Because I can believe that a bad fan motor would be pulling too many amps and that would lead one to say it needs to be replaced. And just to be clear: you are having no problems at all right now? The unit works fine. This is all from a routine maintenance check?
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Apr 12, 2023 01:23
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I be way more willing to sling a part at a fan than oil into the system. But I would start with the cap regardless.
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Apr 12, 2023 01:27
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Not sure what the measurement was, the instrument was yellow and had some sort of scale with a series of LEDs on it. It only lit up the top, red LED that said "bad". I should have paid more attention but I was too busy being confused about the capacitor. I've been trying to Google for it, but can't find anything that looks like it. Definitely looked like a commercial product though, not something just hacked together or something. I know this is a worthless description and I feel dumb for not getting more information. Yes, there are no evident problems at the moment. All of this stemmed from a regular yearly maintenance. It was just on for an hour and a half without any issues. Starts up fine, runs fine, cools adequately, fan seems normal from what I can tell. Edit: if anything, the biggest takeaway for me from this is that I really need to start asking more questions and taking notes Dr. Eldarion fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 01:31
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Motronic posted:That's exactly the kind of use case I don't understand. All of this expense, complexity and new failure points so you don't have to stand up? The expense is like a one time $250 (well actually $500 for me since I have two whole systems), not nothing but pretty small in the scheme of things. I also have 2 tstats that cover 3 floors and it's really nice not to have to get back out of bed after I've settled in for the night or in the middle of a movie and climbing a flight of stairs just to adjust the tstat. I adjust my stat regularly because my wife and daughter have temperature regulation issues so the same temperature will feel hotter or colder to them depending on what their body is doing at the moment. If i set it to 70, today they may feel fine, tomorrow they may feel uncomfortably hot, and the next day they may feel uncomfortably cold.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:16
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Dr. Eldarion posted:Not sure what the measurement was, the instrument was yellow and had some sort of scale with a series of LEDs on it. It only lit up the top, red LED that said "bad". I should have paid more attention but I was too busy being confused about the capacitor. I've been trying to Google for it, but can't find anything that looks like it. Definitely looked like a commercial product though, not something just hacked together or something. I know this is a worthless description and I feel dumb for not getting more information. Was it like this?  Protip in the future, ask for a written/emailed invoice with info about the diagnosis. You can say you need to review it with family or whatever
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Apr 12, 2023 23:10
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YES! That's pretty much exactly what it was.
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Apr 12, 2023 23:46
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Dr. Eldarion posted:YES! That's pretty much exactly what it was. My only guess is they were actually testing the compressor, and something got lost in translation. So there's really only three things they could have tested: 1) Fan motor on top of the outdoor unit 2) Compressor within the outdoor unit 3) Fan motor within the inside "furnace" (this is what's typically called a blower motor). In the same order, if this part fails X happens: 1) Fan motor fails, compressor could overheat and burn out (this is not an instant thing, would happen repeatedly over time) 2) Compressor fails... nothing else gets damaged 3) Blower motor fails, you no longer have air blowing around, nothing else happens You could get the compressor replaced proactively, but there's not really any way to tell if the existing one has a week left or 5 years. At that point you'd likely be replacing the entire system, as I can't imagine the labor works out to replace just a compressor on a residential system. Did they give you a quote?
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Apr 12, 2023 23:57
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Having experienced condenser fan motor failures before, you're also likely to get the system into temperature/pressure lockout long before the compressor itself takes any damage. Replacing the condenser fan on most units I've had my hands on isn't trivial to the DIY-adverse, but is still a simple job to a pro or experienced DIYer. I wouldn't expect to pay much more than $500ish, heavily dependent upon what type of fan motor is required.
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Apr 13, 2023 00:20
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Thanks for pointing out the list of things it could be and the explanations, I'm hopelessly mechanically inept. (software guy) I'm looking back at the checklist the original guys gave me, and this seems relevant: "Inspect condenser motor/fan: amperage rated 2.8, actual 1.4". Would the "bad" reading from that megohmmeter possibly correspond to that? If this is the issue, would the AC still feel like it's working fine with this combination of symptoms? If I understand what you're saying correctly, it could be that it's just less effective which could cause other parts to prematurely fail? Oddly, the first people didn't actually highlight that as an area of concern. Is it possible they thought this was caused by / related to one of the other things they highlighted? (capacitor reading low, compressor amps reading high) I didn't get a quote from them on replacement, I wanted to try and figure out WTF was going on between the two differing reports first.
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Apr 13, 2023 01:15
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