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flatluigi posted:suspend is a neat mechanic and its interaction with cascade is cool imo
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Apr 9, 2023 20:36
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Paying zero mana is something cards do all the time. You can pay zero mana distinctly from not paying mana. Costs aren't defined by a nonzero absolute value. Otherwise we get into some poo poo with the 47 cards with activated abilities that cost 0, the 49 cards with a cost of 0 (distinct from no cost), and 0 loyalty abilities on planeswalkers. Magic lets you do a value of zero of something, and the game will follow from there. That's Marath's day zero X can't be zero errata, you could pay no mana and remove no counters to make a 0/0 creature, put zero +1/+1 counters on something, or deal zero damage. That's like what no one intended at all, and it wouldn't be the first or last time forgetting a clause completely hosed the design, but without the clause then gently caress it pay zero and remove zero counters. If Halo Forager can't target spells without a cost of zero by paying 0 for X, then either they forgot an x can't be zero clause like they did with Marath, or Black Lotus can't be cast, ever. Orange Fluffy Sheep fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 9, 2023 |
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Apr 9, 2023 20:50
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You can cast suspend cards with As foretold, I really don't get what was the problem.
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Apr 9, 2023 21:42
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YggdrasilTM posted:You can cast suspend cards with As foretold, I really don't get what was the problem. Halo Forager has a reflexive triggered ability, which only triggers if the previous thing, in this case paying X, happened. The desired card for this is Crashing Footfalls, which has no mana cost and thus a mana value of 0. So the optimal amount to pay for X is 0 mana. If you aren't an overly literal shithead (the optimal state for mtg rules) then the distinction between paying 0 and not paying anything is unclear. People were worried that paying 0 mana wouldn't register as paying X mana and the reflexive triggered ability wouldn't trigger.
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Apr 9, 2023 23:20
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lol that the guy who posted got salty that "randos" were replying to him instead of the WOTC rules manager so he locked replies? And then Todd Anderson tells him "what did you expect"
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Apr 9, 2023 23:21
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Halo Forager has a reflexive triggered ability, which only triggers if the previous thing, in this case paying X, happened. The desired card for this is Crashing Footfalls, which has no mana cost and thus a mana value of 0. So the optimal amount to pay for X is 0 mana. Still not getting. Why paying 0 mana should not be paying X mana?
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Apr 9, 2023 23:44
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Because paying zero mana transliterates in regular people's brains as "not paying any mana" which in turn might lead you to believe that the ability would not trigger, since you "didn't pay any amount of mana"
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Apr 9, 2023 23:56
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None is still an amount is my gut reaction but maybe I'm not regular Came up yesterday in a match sorta, had some creature at -2 power and apparently -2 wasn't enough to trigger whatever effect I wanted it to because the rules are biased against half of all possible numbers. Khanstant fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 00:11
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flatluigi posted:suspend is a neat mechanic and its interaction with cascade is cool imo I wish the magic thread would stop trying to win battles of opinion
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Apr 10, 2023 01:11
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Cascade rules when I go turn 2 bbe into molten rain. Cascade sucks when my opponent goes turn 2 shardless agent into rhinos.
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Apr 10, 2023 01:13
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precision posted:I wish the magic thread would stop trying to win battles of opinion jesus, dude, stop being so hostile to people who disagree with you
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Apr 10, 2023 01:14
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flatluigi posted:jesus, dude, stop being so hostile to people who disagree with you Magicthread.txt
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Apr 10, 2023 01:26
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Suspend and Cascade don't really interact though unless you have a card that gives spells you cast cascade 
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Apr 10, 2023 02:02
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:Suspend and Cascade don't really interact though unless you have a card that gives spells you cast cascade suspend cards with no direct casting cost have a mana value of zero, which means any cascade spell will be able to cascade into the suspend spell. This skips both the suspend cost and the delay of the suspend card to play it immediately for free, which enables a bunch of different combos. Here's an example of a modern deck that abuses the concept, which explains the interaction thoroughly: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/combo/793842-living-end
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Apr 10, 2023 02:15
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Spells without mana costs predate the suspend mechanic by two years 
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Apr 10, 2023 02:21
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I had a friend who was trying to make Restore Balance work in Modern. As Foretold, cascade spells and borderposts made up most of the rest of the deck. Since you need to successfully cascade into Restore Balance every time, you can't play any card with mana value less than 3 besides the titular card. Greater Gargadon was also a house in that deck.
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Apr 10, 2023 05:41
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Paying 0 was always a thing, I don't know what that guy expected. There's even a combo based around not paying 0 with Cephalid Shrine + Guile + spell based triggers like cascade/storm etc.
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Apr 10, 2023 05:43
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Khanstant posted:Came up yesterday in a match sorta, had some creature at -2 power and apparently -2 wasn't enough to trigger whatever effect I wanted it to because the rules are biased against half of all possible numbers. The rules work with negative numbers for power and toughness just fine, Fatal Pushing a Wild Huntmaster made it give -12/-12 to other creatures. Life too. It just doesn't deal negative amounts of damage, because that would be real weird depending on the damage, and most parts don't work with negatives because they'd require negative cardboard.
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Apr 10, 2023 12:42
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:The rules work with negative numbers for power and toughness just fine, Fatal Pushing a Wild Huntmaster made it give -12/-12 to other creatures. Life too. Sorta. Negative values can exist, but generally they're included in 0 quote:107.1b Most of the time, the Magic game uses only positive numbers and zero. You can’t choose a negative number, deal negative damage, gain negative life, and so on. However, it’s possible for a game value, such as a creature’s power, to be less than zero. If a calculation or comparison needs to use a negative value, it does so. If a calculation that would determine the result of an effect yields a negative number, zero is used instead, unless that effect doubles or sets to a specific value a player’s life total or the power and/or toughness of a creature or creature card.
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Apr 10, 2023 13:05
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Unhinged shows that half numbers are also part of MTG's set of valid numbers
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Apr 10, 2023 13:26
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dragon enthusiast posted:Unhinged shows that half numbers are also part of MTG's set of valid numbers I think all the un-set nonsense (or at least acorn stamped ones, including the old stuff) aren't subject to the rules, which is how Mark Rosewater is in officially charge of the rules for them; half numbers "work" but aren't technically supported by the Comprehensive Rules. I'm sure there's some bizarre interaction that would break. Boxman fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 10, 2023 |
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Apr 10, 2023 13:51
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Algid posted:Paying 0 was always a thing, I don't know what that guy expected. It’s not that paying zero isn’t a thing, it’s that it was a bit unclear how not paying anything works for a reflexive trigger that cares about if you paid mana.
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Apr 10, 2023 14:39
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dragon enthusiast posted:Unhinged shows that half numbers are also part of MTG's set of valid numbers Never trust silver borders, they will betray you! quote:107.1. The only numbers the Magic game uses are integers.
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Apr 10, 2023 15:03
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Apparently Rabiah did have one of the battles at some points during design. Boo! Can't believe we didnt get one
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Apr 10, 2023 18:00
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The Invasion of Rabiah would be a battle that loses all it's counters on entering, summoning a legendary Sheherezade and flavor text explaining there never was a story about Phyrexians invading so they ran into a never ending recursive narrative trap.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:00
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Goa Tse-tung posted:The Invasion of Rabiah would be a battle that loses all it's counters on entering, summoning a legendary Sheherezade and flavor text explaining there never was a story about Phyrexians invading so they ran into a never ending recursive narrative trap. The resolved Battle of Rabia should've had a City in a Bottle Effect: "Whenever one or more other nontoken permanents with a name originally printed in the March of the Machine expansion are on the battlefield, their controllers sacrifice them. Players can’t cast spells or play lands with a name originally printed in the March of the Machine expansion." Juzam Djinn and Serendib Efreet took care of the Phyrexians.
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Apr 10, 2023 20:11
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I've watched all of nizzahons set review now and it looks to be like black is super good and green is maybe not that great. Looks like battles will be pretty important and I think he underrated the green card that destroys fliers, battles, enchants and arts. I think there's enough of those that you always main deck at least one copy
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Apr 10, 2023 20:32
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fadam posted:It’s not that paying zero isn’t a thing, it’s that it was a bit unclear how not paying anything works for a reflexive trigger that cares about if you paid mana. Null Rod's flavor text will set you straight. You didn't pay anything! No, I paid nothing!
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Apr 10, 2023 23:23
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I got the itch to play again, built some EDH decks and joined a local group that never meets. Any suggestions on where to find a group in the Denver area? The trick is I've basically got no immune system for the next six months so I can't really meet at a bar or crowded LGS. Local gaming reddit only gave me that dead group. Meetup has one group that meets only once a month on the one day I can't go. Area Facebook groups seem dead. I'm bouncing off the walls at home trying to do something social here.
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Apr 11, 2023 00:17
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I got the itch to play again, built some EDH decks and joined a local group that never meets. Have you looked into untap.in to play over webcam? It's not as social as playing in person, but it might be better than nothing.
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Apr 11, 2023 03:01
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Yeah, spelltable or similar is likely your best bet
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Apr 11, 2023 10:36
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Are the experiences on those really social? Seeing the opponent and being able to talk might help but I don't know what the culture is on there. I found that the isolation of playing on Arena made me super salty, where I think I'm a pretty friendly and agreeable guy when playing in person.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:40
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Are the experiences on those really social? Seeing the opponent and being able to talk might help but I don't know what the culture is on there. It's just a tool, go find a community - there's lots of groups on Discord for various content creators that have spelltable rooms, eg Tolarian Community College
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Apr 11, 2023 17:22
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My experiences have been largely positive and pretty social too. I’d give it a try a couple times, just make sure to pick games with a power level that matches your deck.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:22
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I've had a lot of fun on untap but once I was playing Emiel the Blessed and got that rhino that skips combat phases on etb and a player just said I'm not dealing with that and bounced lol.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:37
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I was bored at work today and looked at the shelf we have for older Magic stuff that doesn't really move quickly. It isn't necessarily bad (we have some Modern Masters and Throne of Eldraine on it for example, but people are less likely to buy packs from those). Anyway we have a few of the Theme Booster packs that nobody likes because they're 35 cards with only one chance for a rare or mythic. They're cheap though, and I am building my first deck, so for the hell of it I figured I'd grab the one remaining Theme Booster Green from Kamigawa Neon Dynasty. It was five dollars after my employee discount, and I figured maybe there were one or two cards that would be at least halfway decent for me and even if I was getting them for a bit more than if I ordered singles, it would be less hassle than ordering singles at least. So I look through the cards and yeah there's some good stuff for my deck, a lot of trash I can't use, some stuff that's like a maybe, and then I get to the very last card in the box.  This was on our shelf for probably about a year, according to my coworkers, it's been there the whole time. So I got my money's worth and then some.
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Apr 12, 2023 04:24
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That's dope. Theme boosters really were trash though. I have a half dozen capenna ones at my store that I can't fuckin give away for free, nobody has ever wanted one
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Apr 12, 2023 05:02
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replacing them with jumpstart packs was such a good idea. you still get thematic packs but you can actually _do_ something with them
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Apr 12, 2023 05:06
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I loving love these "non-mtg players try to guess if a card is good or not" videos. give me all of them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FqGFDKou0E&hd=1
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Apr 12, 2023 06:30
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A new Japanese Puzzle and Dragons crossover is going on with mtg. Urza, Elspeth, and Teferi are the crossover characters.  Translations of images are below in the reddit thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/PuzzleAndDragons/comments/12jb4vo/jp_magic_the_gathering/
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Apr 12, 2023 09:36
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