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honestly I know its irrational but I always end up replacing Chie in my party whenever she stole Yosuke's money that just seems hosed up!!
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Apr 11, 2023 00:52
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Oxxidation posted:ryuji ended up the same way, it's just his "jokes" had more lame slapstick and less overt sleaze Yeah but I love Ryuji, while I merely like Yosuke
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Apr 11, 2023 00:55
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The Kanji "jokes" are the only ones that really felt truly bad-natured to me. The other stuff usually isn't taken seriously by the rest of the cast.
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Apr 11, 2023 01:08
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SyntheticPolygon posted:This sounds lame narratively. Characters becoming worse people can be really interesting. They should explore that more imo. Oh, it'd be fine if they explored it, but they just let it happen and let it keep happening, which is the problem. The Namatame scene is good because the game actually treats it with the weight it deserves. NikkolasKing posted:What my mind always goes to when people are like "Yosuke is so awful to the girls." Chie also steals his money later on and there is no way to construe that as Yosuke doing anything wrong, Chie just took his money. Yosuke and Chie are a slapstick old married couple, and the game treats that as an understanding of sorts; that doesn't have anything to do with him making GBS threads on Kanji or creeping on the other girls, which explicitly gets called out as not cool.
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Apr 11, 2023 01:25
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Neeksy posted:It's this. Yeah in retrospect that's an easier way to explain it.
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Apr 11, 2023 01:44
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Sydin posted:The Namatame TV scene is great because it's a bunch of people who just saw a little girl die and are pretty convinced this guy in front of them is the culprit and will be getting off easy, so their emotions boil over and their worst traits come out, with the only way to talk the mob down being the player not also getting swept up in the emotional tidal wave and calmly working through the facts of the case to conclude Namatame can't be the killer. It is an insanely well done sequence from top to bottom and it boggles me people get mad about it. the correct answers are not intuitive at all even if you know somethings wrong other than that yeah great scene
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Apr 11, 2023 05:22
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babypolis posted:the correct answers are not intuitive at all even if you know somethings wrong Yeah, was this one of those time where something was lost in translation and the correct answers were more obvious in Japanese? Or are the correct choices kind of unclear no matter which language you play in?
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Apr 11, 2023 05:28
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 Got it on my second try, without using a guide. Once I knew something was wrong it wasn't too hard for me to suss out what the game expected of me.
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Apr 11, 2023 05:30
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Commander Keene posted:
I mean theres not a lot of options so you can figure it out but I could see someone getting there and being like huh that sure was a weird way to end the game
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Apr 11, 2023 05:33
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Ytlaya posted:The Kanji "jokes" are the only ones that really felt truly bad-natured to me. The other stuff usually isn't taken seriously by the rest of the cast. The only good part of it is that Kanji bites back. If he had stayed quiet and sad whenever Yosuke made a joke about it that would have just gotten depressing. Teddie trying to get the girls to get 'wardrobe malfunctions' gets real close, though.
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Apr 11, 2023 06:06
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Yosuke signing the girls up for a beauty pageant without their consent or even knowledge seemed kinda lovely to me. Really I think Yosuke was the worst possible person to take Teddie in, they seem to enable the worst aspects of each other. Though TBF I've known people like that IRL, they just didn't live together.
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Apr 11, 2023 06:17
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Yeah, was this one of those time where something was lost in translation and the correct answers were more obvious in Japanese? Or are the correct choices kind of unclear no matter which language you play in? The only one I'd argue is unintuitive is "Calm the hell down!", prior to that every correct answer is the only option available that casts doubt on Namatame being the killer.
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Apr 11, 2023 06:20
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Commander Keene posted:Yosuke signing the girls up for a beauty pageant without their consent or even knowledge seemed kinda lovely to me. Really I think Yosuke was the worst possible person to take Teddie in, they seem to enable the worst aspects of each other. Though TBF I've known people like that IRL, they just didn't live together. Probably only bad because they couldn't back out thanks to Kashiwagi, and Yosuke didn't realize that.
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Apr 11, 2023 06:28
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The moment Teddie gets a human body is the moment Yosuke's life starts going downhill and never recovers, for this I salute Ted.
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Apr 11, 2023 07:19
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I also enjoyed a small exchange later in the scene: Zenkichi - I think there's a jail in Osaka Sophie - Yes, we went to the city by accident on the way and I detected one Everyone - why didn't you say anything? Sophie - I did, but you were all busy puking and didn't hear me
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Apr 11, 2023 09:29
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Sophie is great
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Apr 11, 2023 13:31
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Sydin posted:The only one I'd argue is unintuitive is "Calm the hell down!", prior to that every correct answer is the only option available that casts doubt on Namatame being the killer. I distinctly remember thinking that choice must be wrong because I've been around arguments my whole life and screaming for people to calm down is always the wrong move. I just really wanted to shake everyone and remind them "did your Shadows tell the truth?" But that wasn't an option.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:07
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NikkolasKing posted:I distinctly remember thinking that choice must be wrong because I've been around arguments my whole life and screaming for people to calm down is always the wrong move. Both Persona 4G and Persona 5 R have quite a few "calm down" choices. And, based on the lack of S-Link points I got, was the right choice. Some writer believes it's a perfectly fine thing to say to lower the temperature. Edit: There's an S-Link in 5 with Maruki (?) where it's an option twice. Granted, in context he's just excited, not upset, but it stuck out. Prowler fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 14:30
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"Calm down" is also pretty much one of Yu's signature phrases so it's fitting it's the key to unlocking the Good Ending.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:33
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ApplesandOranges posted:The only good part of it is that Kanji bites back. If he had stayed quiet and sad whenever Yosuke made a joke about it that would have just gotten depressing.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:30
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The TV scene "calm the hell down!" works because it's clearly the protagonist losing his cool and shouting Yosuke down, which startles everyone enough that they're finally able to take a beat, which is what they needed more than any kind of sound argument. Every correct option in that tree is some measure of "slow down" and the one that actually cinches it is when you're finally allowed to say it empathetically. "Calm down" is usually a poo poo thing to say, but if any scene warrants it, it's that specific one.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:39
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Persona 5 Royal Thoughts, as I play through it the first time. (Played regular P5 a couple of times) Currently a day away from the Hawaii trip: - I really like the Yoshizawa arc so far. It shows that even though a palace was fixed (Kamoshida's), there's still serious issues present at Shujin and it doesn't solve everything for everyone. She's still under pressure, the admin is still coming down on her, students still gossip. Shujin's a tough place to be and Kamoshida was a symptom, not a cure. No spoilers, please, but her phone acting up constantly is very suspicious.  - Akechi. I'm not as big of a fan of him as other people, but Royal does a ton to help his character along. I like the jazz club invite/interaction with him. I know what's coming so certain things he says are very on the nose and I am a huge dumb-dumb for not seeing his twist before. His interactions with Sae ("stress is the enemy of beauty, you know") rule though. Gimme a mission where those two are trying to solve a crime together with all the banter. - I feel like he's important to the new stuff in Royal, but I haven't really been all that interested in visiting Maruki. Some of his dialogue is a little on the nose for what might be coming and my guard is up about what his character means in the future. Plus he's just kind of dull in a nice, inoffensive dad kind of way. Gimme Sojiro over Maruki. - Showtimes are fun. I've seen them a bunch and I still haven't gotten sick of them. Makoto / Fist of the North Star is awesome. - don't know how I feel about the Kichijoji addition. It's...fine enough? I guess? It lets me sell sooty gear. All this stuff could have been added to Central Street / The Underground Mall, and it wouldn't have made too much of a difference. I guess for vibes it's fine enough. The Mementos mission where an old guy goes around hassling people for attention was okay enough.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:51
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:The TV scene "calm the hell down!" works because it's clearly the protagonist losing his cool and shouting Yosuke down, which startles everyone enough that they're finally able to take a beat, which is what they needed more than any kind of sound argument. I also really like it from a characterization standpoint; all the MCs of Persona 3-5 are characterized a bit differently despite being silent protagonists, and P4's really leans into giving the player a lot of go with the flow/calm person options. There are very few options that involve him even implicitly raising his voice in a serious manner. It's not just his sudden shout, but that it's coming from someone who is normally the most calm and collected of the bunch.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:58
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One thing I immediately noticed about Maruki, and have no idea whether it was intentional on the part of the writers, is that he's a really bad therapist who mostly coasts on being an earnest, well-meaning adult in a setting where that's basically a superpower.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:59
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Captain Hotbutt posted:- I feel like he's important to the new stuff in Royal, but I haven't really been all that interested in visiting Maruki. Some of his dialogue is a little on the nose for what might be coming and my guard is up about what his character means in the future. Plus he's just kind of dull in a nice, inoffensive dad kind of way. Gimme Sojiro over Maruki. You might not want to, but get your link up with him as much as possible.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:30
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:One thing I immediately noticed about Maruki, and have no idea whether it was intentional on the part of the writers, is that he's a really bad therapist who mostly coasts on being an earnest, well-meaning adult in a setting where that's basically a superpower. Cognitive Psience research was his passion until Shido (of course it had to be Shido  ) took that away from him. Therapy was adjacent enough and he needed to pay the bills, but I don't recall seeing in the game if he was ever licensed.The funny thing is that Kobayakawa loving up again was indirectly responsible for the events in Royal by cheaping out and hiring a researcher to both teach in class and serve as the school counselor.
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Apr 11, 2023 17:31
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:One thing I immediately noticed about Maruki, and have no idea whether it was intentional on the part of the writers, is that he's a really bad therapist who mostly coasts on being an earnest, well-meaning adult in a setting where that's basically a superpower. He's too consistent and it's too in line with everything else about him for that to be an accident. I mean this is someone who only has sweet or salty snacks rather than spicy or sour. And of course his therapy not actually helping people get better is part of the point
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Apr 11, 2023 17:52
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Hm, both fair points. I may be unfairly comparing it to the other confidants who are also pretty bad at their jobs but being textually treated as beyond reproach, like Takemi's utter lack of doctor/patient ethics and Yoshida having zero actual policies beyond "youth have it rough" pablum.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:05
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NikkolasKing posted:I just really wanted to shake everyone and remind them "did your Shadows tell the truth?" But that wasn't an option. ...but they did tell the truth? The whole thing to unlock their personas was "accepting that the shadows represented a real part of themselves." The thing with Namatame is that it wasn't his shadow, it was the stuff shown on the TV (which is a reflection of the views of surrounding people, and not the shadow). What you see in the Heaven dungeon actually is his shadow (and truthfully exhibits the messiah complex stuff), but the stuff the party sees on the TV in the hospital room is not. neonchameleon posted:He's too consistent and it's too in line with everything else about him for that to be an accident. I mean this is someone who only has sweet or salty snacks rather than spicy or sour. And of course his therapy not actually helping people get better is part of the point Even if it's not actually the case, I think the game wants you to think that Maruki is good at therapy. It never really implies otherwise, and most of the Phantom Thieves are like "huh that was pretty good" after their sessions.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:12
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Hm, both fair points. I may be unfairly comparing it to the other confidants who are also pretty bad at their jobs but being textually treated as beyond reproach, like Takemi's utter lack of doctor/patient ethics and Yoshida having zero actual policies beyond "youth have it rough" pablum. Iwai is VERY good at selling fake guns and/or looking threatening.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:22
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Ytlaya posted:...but they did tell the truth? The whole thing to unlock their personas was "accepting that the shadows represented a real part of themselves." The thing with Namatame is that it wasn't his shadow, it was the stuff shown on the TV (which is a reflection of the views of surrounding people, and not the shadow). What you see in the Heaven dungeon actually is his shadow (and truthfully exhibits the messiah complex stuff), but the stuff the party sees on the TV in the hospital room is not. Do we need to spoiler this? I never got any impression what we saw on the TV is different from Shadows. That's always the first clue to our heroes that something is horribly wrong, with TV Yukiko talking about "wanting a hot stud." That's precisely what Shadow Yukiko says all the time, too. And Rise on the TV is also being all stripper-y, just like her Shadow self we meet in the TV World. And so-on and so-forth. Yukiko did not want a hot stud and Rise is not a stripper and Kanji is not super camp gay. I think it also goes without saying our heroes aren't a quarter as harsh and malicious as their Shadows are. Shadows are caricatures, a piece of who the character is blown up and exaggerated beyond all reality. They're an aspect of the truth but emphatically not the true self. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 18:25
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ApplesandOranges posted:Iwai is VERY good at selling fake guns and/or looking threatening. Yes, and Iwai is a top tier confidant because the game never misrepresents him! I'm just saying, a lot of them have a conflict between their intended reading and a reasonable reading, which can make the authorial intent a bit of a puzzle.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:28
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NikkolasKing posted:Do we need to spoiler this? Izanami explicitly says in the ending that the Midnight Channel was "the want to show, and the want to see." Basically, it's not just what you want to show, it's what the audience is looking for. The other best example of this is, ugh, the comment Rise makes before she gets kidnapped about the boobs of the hazy figure on the Midnight Channel being bigger than hers; it's what people were looking for, and they received it. The Investigation Team wants confirmation of Namatame's guilt, and they get it.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:34
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Captain Hotbutt posted:- Akechi. I'm not as big of a fan of him as other people, but Royal does a ton to help his character along. I like the jazz club invite/interaction with him. I know what's coming so certain things he says are very on the nose and I am a huge dumb-dumb for not seeing his twist before. His interactions with Sae ("stress is the enemy of beauty, you know") rule though. Gimme a mission where those two are trying to solve a crime together with all the banter. I love Akechi's dumb face when Sae says she'll only pay for conveyor belt sushi.  Zulily Zoetrope posted:Yes, and Iwai is a top tier confidant because the game never misrepresents him! I'm just saying, a lot of them have a conflict between their intended reading and a reasonable reading, which can make the authorial intent a bit of a puzzle. My favourite Iwai moment is him taking Joker to the Wilton buffet and having Joker tell him he wants wagyu steak, before giving him the snack pack gift at the end. "You little poo poo, you got some balls giving this to me!" +3 affection points., Shyrka fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Apr 11, 2023 |
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Apr 11, 2023 18:37
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The other thing I'll say is that the scene just makes a lot more sense if that isn't Namatame's actual Shadow, because there's no version of him in the TV World at that time to broadcast his thoughts.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:40
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spoilers p5r : i like that the principal hired both a sex criminal, and a guy who tried to literally take over the world. he was not good at his job
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Apr 11, 2023 18:43
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Arist posted:Izanami explicitly says in the ending that the Midnight Channel was "the want to show, and the want to see." Basically, it's not just what you want to show, it's what the audience is looking for. The other best example of this is, ugh, the comment Rise makes before she gets kidnapped about the boobs of the hazy figure on the Midnight Channel being bigger than hers; it's what people were looking for, and they received it. The Investigation Team wants confirmation of Namatame's guilt, and they get it. I remember her saying that and now I think on it, every time someone is seen on the TV, it's a blurry, shadowy image that only resolves into a solid figure later on. I guess after people projected onto it. But Namatame doesn't do that as far as I remember, we just se his Shadow flat-out. Arist posted:The other thing I'll say is that the scene just makes a lot more sense if that isn't Namatame's actual Shadow, because there's no version of him in the TV World at that time to broadcast his thoughts. True, good point. This is all besides the point, though. I was only trying to say "our heroes are stupid for believing what the TV Namatame said." I think your arguments make my point even better than I did.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:44
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Feels Villeneuve posted:spoilers p5r : i like that the principal hired both a sex criminal, and a guy who tried to literally take over the world. he was not good at his job he was trying to get a student council president to act as an investigator, he was flailing at all times. it was really cartoonishly silly how bad he was at everything.
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Apr 11, 2023 18:51
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Neeksy posted:he was trying to get a student council president to act as an investigator, he was flailing at all times. it was really cartoonishly silly how bad he was at everything. Persona 5 spoilers This always made me laugh. I don't trust my kids to reliably switch out the laundry and you decided to entrust basically your life to this childs investigation skills?
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Apr 11, 2023 19:01
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Hm, both fair points. I may be unfairly comparing it to the other confidants who are also pretty bad at their jobs but being textually treated as beyond reproach, like Takemi's utter lack of doctor/patient ethics and Yoshida having zero actual policies beyond "youth have it rough" pablum. In Yoshida's case it's that Persona 5 tries to tackle deep issues and doesn't actually have anything to say about what's wrong with society other than "there are bad people" and without anything actually to say Yoshida in specific has nothing really to say. 4 and 5 are both very conservative games. Ytlaya posted:Even if it's not actually the case, I think the game wants you to think that Maruki is good at therapy. It never really implies otherwise, and most of the Phantom Thieves are like "huh that was pretty good" after their sessions. You mean Yoshizawa wasn't a huge clue? And Maruki is good at making people feel good, not at practical improvement. Therapy done well is often hard.
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Apr 11, 2023 19:04
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