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Ender Lilies would have been a much better game if it didn't decide that every boss past mid-game had to be Radiant difficult. Just let me get on with the game, I don't care about Lord Shizzlewizzle the Bleak or why I need to perfectly dodge his attacks for 3 minutes.
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Apr 11, 2023 12:05
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Bug Squash posted:Ender Lilies would have been a much better game if it didn't decide that every boss past mid-game had to be Radiant difficult. Just let me get on with the game, I don't care about Lord Shizzlewizzle the Bleak or why I need to perfectly dodge his attacks for 3 minutes.
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Apr 11, 2023 12:55
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Ender lillies looks like freak poo poo
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Apr 11, 2023 13:44
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Ender lillies looks like freak poo poo  It's a kinda trite gothic adventure about a little girl trying to survive in a knockoff dark souls-bloodborne world by summoning ghosts? As far as I got into it the game doesn't get remotely weird about the main character, unless you think playing as a minor at all is sus (which is more of a you issue in that case)
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Apr 11, 2023 13:49
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Aesthetics-wise there's nothing much objectionable in Ender Lilies other than it being the wash-out dark pseudo medieval setting you've played through about a hundred times already.
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Apr 11, 2023 14:23
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Yeah, the game generally looks lovely, the tone is pretty bleak and the fallen glory architecture is all present and correct but the style it's realised in is beautiful in a way that's even distinct from fare like Hollow Knight if you look, their particular blend of darkness and colour has a characteristic bittersweetness to it that I think distinguishes it from basically any other setting of this kind. Also there's the music, which adds a few notes of whimsy to the funerary tone typical of souls-likes but then when things get clutch and someone hits their second phase, instead of getting more epic, it just gets sadder. The whole thing is a tonal slam dunk. The thing that I think puts the most subconscious pressure on me and others to keep comparing it to Hollow Knight is the rain. By far the most lastingly-impactful place in Hollow Knight is the City of Tears, it hits you with everything, the awe, the beauty, the melancholy, the piano, and the rain. Ender Lilies kind of has that kind of vibe extrapolated out to the whole setting, everywhere above ground is like this, and that combined with the brightness balance and most of the music being piano and the benches existing just wakes up the pattern recognition brain.
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Apr 11, 2023 15:00
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Fedule posted:By far the most lastingly-impactful place in Hollow Knight is the City of Tears, it hits you with everything, the awe, the beauty, the melancholy, the piano, and the rain. I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I present to the court defendant Deepnest. It's a very different kind of story-telling than the City of Tears, but Jesus Christ the Deepnest is easily on par with any Stephen King novel. It just makes your skin crawl. The "bottomless pits" are just squirming monstrosities. And it's loving dark in there, too!
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Apr 11, 2023 16:32
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Ender Lilies goes on sale on switch all the time, better grab it Bapanada
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Apr 11, 2023 16:38
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Ender lillies looks like freak poo poo Bro time for an internet break lol
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Apr 11, 2023 16:39
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Ender lillies looks like freak poo poo That's only because it makes your monitor very dark op
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Apr 11, 2023 16:40
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You just got Villeneuved, bro. Anyway game looks neat and also very much like a Hollow Knight ripoff, will try.
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Apr 11, 2023 16:54
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i don't think i'll play it, because Ender Lilies were a plant added in Extra Utilities 2, a minecraft mod, that grew extremely slowly as an alternate source of ender pearls. and that's what they are in my mind now
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Apr 11, 2023 16:59
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I'm considering thos lillies
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Apr 11, 2023 17:02
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Ender? I 'ardly know 'er! Jesus gently caress Team Cherry please finish Hollow Knight: Silksong soon 
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Apr 11, 2023 17:12
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guppy posted:I picked up Lone Fungus and I don't think it's especially Hollow Knight inspired. It's also not nearly as polished. I am, however, enjoying myself maybe 5-6 bosses in. IDK, your basic attack is in the same style as the knights, along with the ability to pogo, you have charms to customize loadouts, and you can at-will hold a button to use your magic to heal (magic of course refilled a bit by hitting enemies). It also has a secret Easter egg room with hollow-knight style beetle statues… I ultimately think conversations about what qualifies as what genre or subgenre or whatever as being pretty needlessly pedantic, but I would be stunned if the developer wasn’t inspired by hollow knight when designing the game.
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Apr 11, 2023 19:37
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I'd be remiss if I didn't crosspost this here from a discord server I am in comparing Hollow Knight disfavorably to Metroid Dread.
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Apr 11, 2023 20:17
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Alxprit posted:I'd be remiss if I didn't crosspost this here from a discord server I am in comparing Hollow Knight disfavorably to Metroid Dread. Most of the knight's abilities are optional or non-combat related, which both limits the design space of the combat and makes bosses a little more dull because of it. That being said, I feel like HK's combat feels better moment-to-moment in boss encounters, but I think this might also be because a few of Dread's bosses suffer from most of the difficulty being in finding "the trick" and then applying a relatively "odd" movement in conjunction with the "normal" shoot 'em up.
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Apr 11, 2023 20:36
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Hollow Knight boss fights are unparalleled, though some of the latter ones do rely too much on projectile vomit
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Apr 11, 2023 20:38
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Hollow Knight bosses are great, if and only if Team Cherry henceforth realise that they no longer need to have damage pillars coming out of the ground attacks, the form has been perfected, there is no more work to be done. If they don't stop then some Hollow Knight bosses start losing quality. Don't be mad at me, this is just the laws of physics at work.
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Apr 11, 2023 21:47
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also you dont necessarily face the HK bosses in any order, by design, so that's part of why they dont slowly rise in difficulty
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Apr 11, 2023 21:48
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Hollow Knight really does nonlinearity better than any other metroidvania. Every playthrough I have watched ends up taking a different path through.
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Apr 11, 2023 22:34
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Metroid Drek
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Apr 11, 2023 23:27
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Hollow Knight is the only game that has recreated the feeling of wonder and exploration that I got the first time playing Super Metroid as a kid. Nothing has ever had such strong  berries which also completely satisfied the longing nostalgia with something new.
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Apr 12, 2023 03:20
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The dark secret is that most metroidvanias are actually fairly linear and have a more or less enforced critical path. That's not necessarily bad in terms of play experience, but the freeform element is usually just smoke, mirrors, and backtracking. Hollow knight on the other hand really does open up once you get a few upgrades, and keeps opening. There really is nothing else like it in that respect.
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Apr 12, 2023 09:06
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The amazing thing about it is that there isn't a "main" route that you can deviate from if you really want to, the game just opens up and sets you loose once you have the mantis claw and any path is as viable as any other.
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Apr 12, 2023 11:22
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C-Euro posted:Ender? I 'ardly know 'er! Silksong has been finished for a long time. The game actually just sucks and they are hoping we all forget about it.
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Apr 12, 2023 11:34
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SirSamVimes posted:The amazing thing about it is that there isn't a "main" route that you can deviate from if you really want to, the game just opens up and sets you loose once you have the mantis claw and any path is as viable as any other. Making pals with the Mantis Lords is a great touch. Okay little buddy, you fought well, off you go!
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Apr 12, 2023 12:01
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SirSamVimes posted:The amazing thing about it is that there isn't a "main" route that you can deviate from if you really want to, the game just opens up and sets you loose once you have the mantis claw and any path is as viable as any other. In my first play through the Mantis Lords were one of the last bosses I faced! I had quite the reaction when I got the claw and realized how much easier a bunch of the game I’d already completed should have been
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Apr 12, 2023 13:28
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Rappaport posted:Making pals with the Mantis Lords is a great touch. Okay little buddy, you fought well, off you go! I really enjoy that the other mantises salute you instead of attacking afterward.
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Apr 12, 2023 16:33
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guppy posted:I really enjoy that the other mantises salute you instead of attacking afterward. Feels bad if you haven’t yet gotten their Hunter’s Journal entries though.
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Apr 12, 2023 16:44
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dividertabs posted:Feels bad if you haven’t yet gotten their Hunter’s Journal entries though. It's okay, the mantis tribe LOVES the thrill of combat. When you start beating up a civilian to fill out your entry, they're beside themselves with glee that the champ just rolled up to 1-v-1 them specifically. You're making their dreams come true!
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Apr 12, 2023 16:47
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I got the claw and left to go to the city. Forgot to explore the rest of mantis land till later.
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Apr 12, 2023 17:48
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Bug Squash posted:The dark secret is that most metroidvanias are actually fairly linear and have a more or less enforced critical path. That's not necessarily bad in terms of play experience, but the freeform element is usually just smoke, mirrors, and backtracking. Hollow knight on the other hand really does open up once you get a few upgrades, and keeps opening. There really is nothing else like it in that respect. For sure, or at least they are fairly linear until you have a certain degree of familiarity with the game. In Hollow Knight that non-linearity comes from smart world design rather than understanding gameplay tricks.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:16
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Just for fun I looked up my steam achievements to see the path I took on my first run and also how long certain things took me:
I know that I was playing in the period between the Soul Master and the Mantis Lords as I was getting achievements throughout those two weeks lol Also the time between getting the 100% completion achievement and beating The Radiance was 23 minutes  I don't know how long it took me to beat the Trial of the Fool in total but I beat Zote at 8:30 PM and then the trial at 2 AM that night 
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Apr 12, 2023 20:06
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guppy posted:I really enjoy that the other mantises salute you instead of attacking afterward. Otoh this makes it so much worse when I inevitably accidentally attack one 
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Apr 12, 2023 20:16
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The mantises whipped my rear end and then I got lost in the dark and scary place for hours
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Apr 12, 2023 20:20
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Achievement for defeating the Radiance, earned Feb 2018. Defeating the Mantis Lords, earned Jun 2022. For those four years, I always assumed people were talking about the enemies, because I had no clue there was a 'boss' down there.
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Apr 12, 2023 21:01
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But doctor, I am hollow knight!
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Apr 12, 2023 23:29
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Bug Squash posted:The dark secret is that most metroidvanias are actually fairly linear and have a more or less enforced critical path. That's not necessarily bad in terms of play experience, but the freeform element is usually just smoke, mirrors, and backtracking. Hollow knight on the other hand really does open up once you get a few upgrades, and keeps opening. There really is nothing else like it in that respect. It's a lot of exploring to find the upgrade to get you the next area opened up. I'm finding this with bloodstained at the moment where there's a bunch of places to go, but a lot of the story related areas require exactly this item/ability to get in.
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Apr 13, 2023 00:23
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To me, non-linearity isn't the point so much as the feeling of discovering the path. It doesn't matter how many paths there are, as long as the game lets you use your brain to find it instead of making it obvious
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Apr 13, 2023 01:56
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