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Having gotten to the last couple episodes of Crown of Candy, I fully understand now what I've heard about it getting derailed. Emily's second character just...It just doesn't work. The vibes are hosed, the character storylines are hosed, it's rough. Great up until then, though, and I'm gonna finish.
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Apr 12, 2023 03:41
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I honestly think the end of Crown of Candy just doesn’t work. I find that uh, moment everyone talks about as so emotional just doesn’t land for me because it felt like such an obvious, foregone conclusion where the people involved would always make the choice they did.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:29
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NieR Occomata posted:I honestly think the end of Crown of Candy just doesn’t work. I find that uh, moment everyone talks about as so emotional just doesn’t land for me because it felt like such an obvious, foregone conclusion where the people involved would always make the choice they did. You mean the prisoner's dilemma at the end? Yeah, it's a foregone conclusion for the same reason an actual prisoner's dilemma goes the way it does: Your decision will have long-term ramifications on your reputation. A career criminal will not turn on his partner because he'll be branded a snitch/rat and be murdered. None of the players in CoC will turn on their friends because they want to continue being friends in the future.
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Apr 12, 2023 05:46
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Magitek posted:You mean the prisoner's dilemma at the end? Yeah, it's a foregone conclusion for the same reason an actual prisoner's dilemma goes the way it does: Your decision will have long-term ramifications on your reputation. A career criminal will not turn on his partner because he'll be branded a snitch/rat and be murdered. None of the players in CoC will turn on their friends because they want to continue being friends in the future. Yeah, it’s also that those two specific players would never, ever, EVER betray. Emily has mentioned over and over on NADDPOD how she’s a super giving player who is willing to do basically anything to help a fellow player out, and Siobhan isn’t far behind her. Like if you look at the actual scenario as presented it’s hard for me to believe either the princess of Saccarinha would forgive; maybe one or the other but not both, there wasn’t a moment of compassion or character development between them and there was so much tension leading into it it’s not believable that they would as characters set that aside, but as players they just would never do that to each other and the whole thing falls flat. The irony is Brennan chose the single worst two people to present the dilemma to; Murph always puts character first, and doesn’t give a poo poo if he looks like an rear end in a top hat for doing it (in fact he enjoys being seen as a rat), Ally is a total wild card and they could do literally anything at all, Lou is able to dissasociate where he’s willing to internalize the difference between player motivation and character motivation and is willing to make suboptimal choices, and Zac will do rear end in a top hat moves if it’s in keeping with the character he’s playing, but Siobhan and especially Emily? No loving way dude, was never gonna happen.
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Apr 12, 2023 13:56
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I don't know these people are actors and writers. If brennan had given them such a choice somewhere in the middle of a season, I can see them taking the drama bait for a bit. Not in literally the final episode though, lmao. basically: pacing issues, again
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Apr 12, 2023 14:09
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Neverafter has had a few bangers, but I still think the main sin is that it's so freakin' abstract that it's really hard to get into the stakes of it. The TPK was neat, but it entirely deflated the horror aspect of the season cause they just come back, corrupted, but even then they've more or less found solace in that corruption. It's taken so long for him to explain the books, ink, villain teams, and such that at no point have I felt really immersed. Crown of Candy has a simple but freakin' great setup where you have a family in exile. Starstruck is a band of misfits trying to survive capitalism. Of Mice and Murder is about solving a murder. Neverafter is.... a mess. Still some fun bits here and there, but can't wait for them to get to the next one.
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Apr 12, 2023 14:49
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imo they have done horror OR the meta stuff
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Apr 12, 2023 14:58
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I love how we're at the final episode and we still don't know the agenda of the main villain (?) that's good writing there.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:04
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Farg posted:imo they have done horror OR the meta stuff I think this is it right here. Just hosed up fairy tales where the wicked stepmother/gander/baba yaga has become cuthulu or whatever as a tight 10 episode horror thing would have been better. A meta-comedy thing where they explore the differences between the various versions of the well known fairy tales with them Gumby-ing in and out of the books would have been fun to watch. Combining them has made this season a real slog to watch and having like eight factions just bloated every lore dump.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:07
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8one6 posted:I think this is it right here. Starstruck was also like a giant multi faction clusterfuck and it wound up being one of their strongest seasons. The 6-way finale fight was amazing.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:57
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the issue with neverafter imo is that it has zero verisimilitude
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Apr 12, 2023 16:00
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Having only watched (the first half of) Starstruck Odyssey and Neverafter, I feel like they're extremely different entities, but I haven't disliked either. Neverafter has led to some good comedy, but has also led to some really good, wholesome character moments. Everybody feels really deep in their role and are willing to take the sub-optimal choice if it leads to better drama or laughs. Only thing is wasn't wild about this season was the social interactions with the princesses, which were painful in how badly the characters handled it. A lot of that was the rolls and the players acting to their characters' strengths and weaknesses, but, still, as a socially awkward person, I was wincing. The cast says as much in the Adventuring Party for that episode, where they talk about the difficulty in trying to have a equal-footing conversation with people who they know are stronger and more capable than them, while also knowing these people are going down a deeply crazy path. The episode at the Baba Yaga's place was a great episode, for example. Lots of individual choices, fun interactions between different pairs of characters, and a completely manically-insane BLM NPC. And for fights, the one where they were the giants was amazing for how chaotic it got, with scaled up versions of basic spells massacring entire armies and animated landscapes. I do wonder how the heck they're going to wrap it all up in a single episode, considering that they've got at least two more fights (three? The fairies, the stepmother, and possibly the Ink itself, assuming that's not something the stepmother is doing...), plus the actual story wrap-up for the characters, whether or not that's a 'happily ever after'. I imagine either there's going to be some shenanigans Maybe the fairies get bodied by the stepmother somehow and it moves to a full-on fight with her immediately? or this episode is going to run very long... I do feel like Ally has probably been cooking something up off screen with the resolution to their individual plotlines and the book. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 16:11
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Just finished Total Forgiveness based on this thread's suggestions and, boy, are those last couple of episodes before the finale are rough. Lines were definitely crossed and I really don't know how the producers and higher ups let things go as far as they did. The finale did at least give some catharsis, although I wonder if the final challenge had been discussed between Ally and Grant beforehand, because the set up of the challenge seemed primed to give Ally the chance to throw it. I haven't watched the Reunion video yet but I do hope they were able to stay friends after the show because that could easily (and likely) be a relationship killer for most.
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Apr 12, 2023 16:59
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What's a good Dimension20 season for someone who loves the Dropout cast from other shows but isn't familiar with D&D?
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Apr 12, 2023 17:32
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YorexTheMad posted:What's a good Dimension20 season for someone who loves the Dropout cast from other shows but isn't familiar with D&D? just do the very first season, fantasy high
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Apr 12, 2023 17:37
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None of the D20 stuff really needs much in the way of knowledge of the rules they are using. Some of the seasons, like Misfits and Magic, don't use D&D rules at all. So just pick what sounds interesting to you.
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Apr 12, 2023 17:54
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eke out posted:just do the very first season, fantasy high Yeah, that's the way to go. I know Ally on that season had no experience with D&D, and they're pretty good about explaining rules as they go just because some of them don't know the rules.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:00
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Jaxts posted:None of the D20 stuff really needs much in the way of knowledge of the rules they are using. I spent some time looking for non D&D rule seasons just to change it up. Thanks for Misfits & Magic recommendation! Is there a way for me to find others with different RP systems?
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Apr 12, 2023 18:10
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Schrute Nation posted:I spent some time looking for non D&D rule seasons just to change it up. Thanks for Misfits & Magic recommendation! Is there a way for me to find others with different RP systems? I don't know if they've got a filter or anything, so Wikipedia or whatever might be the easiest way, but off the top of my head I think it's only Shriek Week and Misfits and Magic. Mice and Murder is baaaaarely Dnd and they borrow some other stuff for ACOFAF. ACOFAF probably shouldn't have been DnD at all but whatever.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:19
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eke out posted:just do the very first season, fantasy high Fantasy high is great, season one of the Unsleeping City is also phenominal. For something a lot more lightweight and easy to get through, Escape from the Bloodkeep is short and sweet, though it's using explicitly high level characters so there's a lot of what the gently caress if you're not use to high level D&D shenanigans.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:20
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DeathSandwich posted:For something a lot more lightweight and easy to get through, Escape from the Bloodkeep is short and sweet, though it's using explicitly high level characters so there's a lot of what the gently caress if you're not use to high level D&D shenanigans. It's still very easy to follow, though. After all, Rekha was a D&D newbie that season and kept up just fine as a player.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:39
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it's been a while since I listened to it but I think Coffin Run is more character moments than big d&d battles although it has those as well
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Apr 12, 2023 18:50
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YorexTheMad posted:What's a good Dimension20 season for someone who loves the Dropout cast from other shows but isn't familiar with D&D? I would go with Starstruck tbh. I think it’s the best season in terms of a bunch of experienced roleplayers knowing how to play characters, but they’re playing a brand-new system so there’s a lot of explanation of how it works in comparison to D and D. The humor is incredible, the shenanigans are so loving good (Operation Slippery Puppet is the best thing that has happened in any D20 season) and the finale is so, so good (which is my issue with the end of a season like crown of candy or escape from the bloodkeep; they both have very pat and cliched endings that feel very orchestrated while starstruck’s feels super hard won that could’ve gone very badly at any time if the dice rolled poorly. It’s also the season I hope gets a sequel sooner rather than later (arguably even over a theoretical FH season 3), just because the possibility space is so vast. I dunno, I really loving love Starstruck, it might be my favorite D20 season.
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Apr 12, 2023 19:03
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is Starstruck the season where Brennan uses the word 'youths' but pronounces it like he's in a scene from my cousin Vinny? Because I can never tell if it's a deliberate affectation or not
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Apr 12, 2023 20:29
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eke out posted:just do the very first season, fantasy high I've binged six episodes today and let me ask you, is that butthole goblin-sized?
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Apr 12, 2023 20:40
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NieR Occomata posted:I would go with Starstruck tbh. I think it’s the best season in terms of a bunch of experienced roleplayers knowing how to play characters, but they’re playing a brand-new system so there’s a lot of explanation of how it works in comparison to D and D. The humor is incredible, the shenanigans are so loving good (Operation Slippery Puppet is the best thing that has happened in any D20 season) and the finale is so, so good (which is my issue with the end of a season like crown of candy or escape from the bloodkeep; they both have very pat and cliched endings that feel very orchestrated while starstruck’s feels super hard won that could’ve gone very badly at any time if the dice rolled poorly. It’s also the season I hope gets a sequel sooner rather than later (arguably even over a theoretical FH season 3), just because the possibility space is so vast. I dunno, I really loving love Starstruck, it might be my favorite D20 season. Yeah, Starstruck is truly excellent. Usually I wouldn't be for a season set in an established IP but the IP is so obscure and also wild that it's just a wonderful setting for a game. The characters are great, the story is great; like, you know it's magical when they immediately come up with a name for their team off the cuff. Plus the bait and switch with one of the characters in the first episode is brilliant.
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Apr 12, 2023 22:09
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double nine posted:speaking of naddpod, is that the type of podcast one should start at the beginning at, or should you just pick up the latest episode and work your way backwards? I'm going to buck the general trend and say that while starting from the very beginning is the simplest, that there's not any major harm in starting from the beginning of any of their 3 campaigns (i.e. they're in their third campaign at the moment). If you wanted to catch up as fast as possible, you could start with the 1st episode of the third campaign, which is 32 or so episodes deep at the moment without missing much beyond some in jokes for the vast majority of it. A significant character from the first campaign did come into things recently, and you'll lack some of the context for that, but the episodes themselves tell you as much as you really need to know. That said, you'll probably find the character more off-putting than people who've been following all along because a lot of their behavior depends on in jokes so it may not land as well for you. Additionally, the second season is generally agreed to be the weakest season. Still good, but the cast wanted to do a slightly edgier world modeled somewhat on the tone of then in vogue shows like Game of Thrones and it didn't seem like they ever really settled into the characters the way they did with campaign 1 and 3. At least outside a short side campaign they ran in the setting with new characters while Caldwell was off for a few weeks due to his wife just having given birth. Lou Wilson fills in for him, and he injects an energy that gave the setting a major boost. It's still very fun even outside that, but it never quite hits the highs of other campaigns. It's quite short though, so that may help. The good thing is, the first campaign is good from the off with the cast setting a tone right out the gate by making an extended joke about "dragon pussy", and Jake, who had never played any D'n'D up to that point taking to things like a natural pretty much immediately. He's willing to be alternately goofy when the show called for a joke, or somewhat serious when appropriate and open to the drama and fun of the game and letting himself be a character. So starting with campaign 1 really is for the best, even if you'll take a good while to catch up to current; a thing which some people are want to do. The "Short Rest" mentioned is a Patreon exclusive aftershow the cast started around about episode 15 and has some of the best content they've put out because rather than simply discuss the episode, they often just go off on extended tangents about whatever silliness pops into their minds and it's just listening to three long time friends and experienced comedians bounce off each other. They do normally give some good insight into the episode, be that character choices or alternate scenarios etc, but they also aren't afraid to just let the conversation wander. Which has given birth to several other ideas, including a now monthly show they do called D'n'D Court, where they ask people on Patreon to give them cases of egregious stories from their own games and then litigate them as if they were a court. It started out as mostly a joke, but has become popular enough at this point that instead of doing one episode of the regular show a week, every week, they air a D'n'D Court episode in place of every roughly 4th episode in order to give Murph a bit of a break and time to prepare the main campaign etc. It's available at the $5 tier, and is probably one of the best investments on a D'n'D Live Play, because it's a new episode every week with a huge backlog at this point. They also offer a "Mixed Bag" at the $10 tier that has fewer episodes, but includes them reviewing things like the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon and film, watching some anime (which Jake is also new to), reading the first of the Animorphs books to review and offering live shows once they started touring among other things. Again, good stuff. Not nearly as good a value as the "Short Rest", but there's plenty of the show if you do like it once you start listening, essentially, at any of the price points; including free. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 23:45
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For me Neverafter falls over with the inconsistent focus on the characters. We've gotten a LOT out of Gerard, Pinocchio and Ylfa, and to an extent Mother Goose but to me that feels more like it's focusing on their link to the macguffin of the series than actual character moments. We found out that Pib is a trickster spirit after the TPK but nothing has really happened with that since, and other than occasionally asking "where the This isn't a slight against any of the cast, they're clearly investing a lot into the game but it feels overworked in some places and underdeveloped in others. It's weird, I really want to like it but the Adventuring Party episodes have been the highlights of the series for me.
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Apr 12, 2023 23:56
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You don't NEED to listen to the Short Rests, but it's the only way to learn deeplore stuff such as how Emily's parents gave her individual pieces of breakfast cereal as a treat when she played piano well - like the way a non-Axford human might train a pet dog.
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Apr 13, 2023 02:43
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Or, a little place…called Mangia’s.
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Apr 13, 2023 03:14
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Brennan losing it over (Neverafter Finale Spoilers) Ally rolling the hat in the box of doom was very funny but also giving big 'I'm not mad I'm just disappointed' energy. He seemed genuinely a little upset.
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Apr 13, 2023 05:21
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YorexTheMad posted:Just finished Total Forgiveness based on this thread's suggestions and, boy, are those last couple of episodes before the finale are rough. Lines were definitely crossed and I really don't know how the producers and higher ups let things go as far as they did. Something they talk about in the Reunion is that Grant and Aly were the producers. It was their show, top to bottom, and that was part of what made it hit so hard for them.
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Apr 13, 2023 06:53
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Is there a summary of Total Forgiveness somewhere? It sounds completely agonizing to watch in full.
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Apr 13, 2023 07:04
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Squidster posted:Is there a summary of Total Forgiveness somewhere? It sounds completely agonizing to watch in full. They do skits and get some of their debt written down for each skit. They set each others tasks and if the other fails that task they get all of the money for that episode. Because of the set up the tasks become increasingly more horrible for each person. Grant gets close to having a mental breakdown, actual friendships become strained and everyone involved realises that it wasn't that good of an idea to actually torture people for money.
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Apr 13, 2023 08:25
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Its also clear that Grant is holding back a bit, coming up with a pretty basic set of challenges. Meanwhile, Ally alternates between challenges that are literally impossible and those that are actually emotionally scarring. One of the things that Sam talks about it in all the Behind The Scenes GameChangers is making each show not be too mean. After watching Total Forgiveness that makes 1000% more sense.
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Apr 13, 2023 09:24
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yeah Ally showed a mean side of themselves that's hard to shake of course it was literally the rules grant & themselves set up so it's not like they were cheating or anything, but there's still a less viscous vibe from grant's challenges than ally's. that said some things were clearly "just" because they didn't think of the consequences (flea market comes to mind), less about planned meanness and more just being shortsighted.
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Apr 13, 2023 11:52
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I didnt think ally was being particularly mean just that they didn't really think through on what would happen. I think Grant wasn't thinking through either because he could have not done any of them or stopped at any time. That coupled with the fact that Ally is so easy going that none of grant's tasks could have the same kind of impact on them it really brought about the imbalance.
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Apr 13, 2023 13:06
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it was a battle of creativity and guts and ally won. grant is a coward
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Apr 13, 2023 13:24
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Neverafter Finale spoiler
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Apr 13, 2023 13:32
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Squidster posted:Is there a summary of Total Forgiveness somewhere? It sounds completely agonizing to watch in full. I watched this short video about Total Forgiveness a week or two back, since you mention it. It's some random YouTuber talking about what made it work so well in comparison to other reality shows for 8 minutes, but they give a quick rundown of what the show is as part of it.
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Apr 13, 2023 21:08
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