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I mean the climate change argument is that more people will die if you don't. And capitalism being the greatest extant tool for improving human conditions is entirely orthodox marxism, the criticism is that it is not the best possible way of doing things and has clear internal contradictions which will inevitably cause it to be replaced by something else which will distribute the product of human labour better. Capitalism is intertwined with a vast leap in the ability of humans to produce things they need but now its structural incentives are causing it to demand production of things we don't need and to withold distribution of things we overproduce and do need, in the service of upholding its own power structure. And to tie that back in with the climate change argument, I think it is entirely possible to both reduce overall expenditure of resources and improve human welfare by solving the distribution problem and directly curtailing the power of capital to decide what is produced, and this is in fact the goal of a number of good political thinkers across the red/green bit of the spectrum. I don't think either of those present particular problems to the idea of social policy being subject to ethical judgement. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 10:25
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OwlFancier posted:
This is really well put and I’ll be using it pretty much verbatim in future arguments. Maybe proud isn’t the right word. I guess I just like a lot of things about here, including a lot of aspects of society. Most things i don’t like about here any more than I do other places, and plenty of things I like less. But in general there is a lot to like, it’s just underpinned with… well, you know.
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Apr 17, 2023 10:45
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Jedit posted:The ONS has linked more excess deaths in the UK to Tory policy 2010-22 than were caused by Nazi policy 1933-45. If the cunts were being held to proper account then they'd be decorating every lamppost for half a mile around Westminster. So don't come in here to poo poo up the thread and call me a liar, please. We went through your numbers last time you posted them and they didn't hold up. To continue referring to them is being dishonest.
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Apr 17, 2023 10:51
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Also it relies on the same rhetorical nonsense that the "socialism sounds good, but in reality it has killed eleventy trillion people" people employ, you have to deliberately conflate public health programs, random murderers who put 'social' somewhere in their party name, enemy combatants who died while actively invading socialist countries, natural disasters, and the passage of time with each other and pretend that somehow any good was incidental but all the bad was inevitable (or the inverse). Industrial capitalism and the corporate research department (which may be funded by private capital or by government sponsorship) did create the biggest ever improvement in general life from 1870-2005ish. That doesn't mean that finance capitalism did poo poo of any use, or that the East India companies were a human good, or that "hey what if we sold people like chattel" capitalism was anything other than terrible, it just means that a certain form of paper organization created industrialization and everything good flowed from that (and then even that might render the planet bad for humans as a consequence). So it ends up looking like "capitalism liberated humanity" if you conflate all those things together, but then the reason that the rate of human improvements started slowing down markedly around the mid 00s was not because of the industrial bit but because a big part of it was still being run by the tulip bulb people who spent all their time investing in robots that could sell mortgages to each other really really fast. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 10:51
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Yeah I say "intertwined with" because "produced" is giving capitalism too much credit. As I ended up mentioning earlier, latecomers to industrialization did it better and faster by managing it through the vehicle of the state, so you don't need capitalism to achieve industrialization, but due to the historical conditions of the time that's what we ended up with and it's carried a lot of problems through to today, even if historically it was the model under which a lot of invention occured and was proliferated.
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Apr 17, 2023 10:59
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Doom Guy wanted to avenge the murder of his pet rabbit. Kieth would be the guy that murdered the rabbit, or at least had someone else do it.
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Apr 17, 2023 11:29
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Not sure how a child turning up in a skirt (of their own volition) is a safeguarding issue. It's so totally not. Unless you're a transphobe who only gives a poo poo about the word 'gender' and not the word 'child'. I'm not involved with safeguarding stuff but my wife is (albeit with adults) and her attitude when I spoke to her about this was that it'd only be relevant to involve parents if the child was being bullied for any of their gender-related changes. In such a case it would result in a strategy meeting and the involvement of social services before the parents were brought into it. That said, wife's attitude is a very caring and idealistic one - one which often sets her at odds with the system, which is largely poo poo and often run by poo poo people. So there's nothing to say it'd actually happen like that.
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Apr 17, 2023 11:31
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I went to a boys school. Would they kick me out of I started wearing a skirt? Would they tell my parents? Single sex schools are weird.
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Apr 17, 2023 11:43
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Dead Goon posted:Doom Guy wanted to avenge the murder of his pet rabbit. That alpaca's owner currently upgrading her super shotgun and preparing for The Raid.
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Apr 17, 2023 12:17
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https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1647930791496646657
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Apr 17, 2023 12:58
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i for one am SHOCKED by this turn of events
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Apr 17, 2023 13:02
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At least that's something kier doesn't have to worry about. Interest, undeclared or otherwise.
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Apr 17, 2023 13:16
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Prince Charles walks into a talent office along with his first, second, and third cousins. "Boy, have I got an act to show you!"
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Apr 17, 2023 13:18
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Just lol if after Brexit, Boris and Liz Labour still can't win an electionJakabite posted:I do also think we’re funnier than most nationalities. Like did you know that in a lot of the world being funny isn’t even that important socially, blows my mind. The stereotypical Brit is the opposite of funny but all the Brits I have met are hilarious
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Apr 17, 2023 13:33
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crispix posted:lost all respect for majesty queen when she didn't gently caress them all by leaving it all to cats' protection Think she was more a dog person tbh (which is reason enough to be losing the respect).
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Apr 17, 2023 13:47
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So you’re telling me things don’t add up? Ahahahhahaha
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Apr 17, 2023 14:00
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good job the PM is immune to prosecution
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Apr 17, 2023 14:29
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UK go five minutes without a corrupt piece of poo poo as prime minister challenge (impossible)
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Apr 17, 2023 14:44
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keep punching joe posted:Prince Charles walks into a talent office along with his first, second, and third cousins. Is the act that there's only him there
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Apr 17, 2023 14:55
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NotJustANumber99 posted:We went through your numbers last time you posted them and they didn't hold up. To continue referring to them is being dishonest.
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Apr 17, 2023 15:12
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Looking forward to a Lab/Con coalition next year.
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Apr 17, 2023 15:51
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Tesseraction posted:UK go five minutes without a corrupt piece of poo poo as prime minister challenge (impossible) I want to see how much corruption Truss managed to Speedrun in during her term.
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Apr 17, 2023 16:08
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Probably tried to sell the Crown to Trump so that he could avoid arrest.
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Apr 17, 2023 16:15
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Tesseraction posted:UK go five minutes without a corrupt piece of poo poo as prime minister challenge (impossible) https://twitter.com/CountBinface/status/1647977516915740673?t=fWd9hlRHjGmtGiCkfYkJSw&s=19
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Apr 17, 2023 16:20
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Enjoy your Coronation Quiche plebs https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1647961757460078593?s=46&t=m_nNbkNoHG4lLitcpyHReg
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Apr 17, 2023 16:25
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Q Understands Infants Charles Has Eaten 
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Apr 17, 2023 16:28
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New fudge released! Also important announcement! Howdy fudge fans! We've got a lovely collection available on the website for you this month, including a couple of particularly tasty and popular Easter specials. However, I'm afraid there's some slightly bad news. Since 2020 our costs have more than doubled- we've done our best to keep our prices at the same point as when we started, but it's just no longer sustainable anymore.  Therefore, as of the 1st of May all fudge bars will be charged at £4 each, rather than the current £3.50. Currently all our coupon codes and other offers will remain as they are- so 'roastbeefisbest' will still get you 5-for-4 at checkout! We're going to see how these interact with our new prices, so that may be subject to change in the future. In short- get while the getting's good! This will be the last fudge-drop at the current price, so fill your fists with delicious sugar! Current Flavours Original Vanilla Unicorn Barf Rum and Raisin Irish Cream Chocolate Orange Oranges and Lemons Lemon Meringue Pie Cafe Americano Whisky and Ginger Chai Latte Chocolate Honeycomb Cheesecake Cookies and Cream Most Eggscellent! - Easter special! Milk chocolate fudge full of Cadbury's Mini-Eggs. Lind-Awesome - Easter special! Milk Chocolate fudge studded with melt-in-your-mouth Lindor eggs All fudge is now live at https://www.fudjit.co.uk at £3.50 + P&P per bar (until the end of the month!) and is sent via Royal Mail first-class signed for. . And as always, use the UKMT code 'Roastbeefisbest' to get 5-for-4 at checkout. Get fudged!
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Apr 17, 2023 16:46
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No Coronation Fudge?
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Apr 17, 2023 16:48
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smellmycheese posted:No Coronation Fudge? I have pride and self-respect.
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Apr 17, 2023 16:50
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Nothing is stopping you putting mayonnaise and curry powder on your own fudge.
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Apr 17, 2023 16:51
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Camrath posted:I have pride and self-respect. I don't see self respect on the flavor list...
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Apr 17, 2023 16:51
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smellmycheese posted:Enjoy your Coronation Quiche plebs Many years ago a friend told me with complete conviction that quiche is for nonces, and while I doubted him at the time I see now that he was right.
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Apr 17, 2023 16:52
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Quiche. Is good
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Apr 17, 2023 17:09
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Bobby Deluxe posted:But more satisfyingly: Pffft that's chump change for an oligarch.
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Apr 17, 2023 17:11
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Loz having a normal confected one over the Bannau. https://twitter.com/DogoKuno/status/1647895562035896321
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Apr 17, 2023 17:20
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Aren't they calling it what it used to be called before the english turned up?
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Apr 17, 2023 17:24
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It's a bit debatable (due to the length of time and the degree of erasure of Welsh terms in the area), but that debate was had and that was the decided name to go with for the Welsh park that is in Wales. Anyone who doesn't have an informed plausible alternative is just being a performatively outraged Anglo about it though.
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Apr 17, 2023 17:28
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Somehow, Bannau Brycheiniog returned
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Apr 17, 2023 17:33
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Give Quiché a chance.
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Apr 17, 2023 17:34
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Having spent a bit of time in that part of the world, it's always had both spellings on the boundary markers.
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Apr 17, 2023 17:38
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