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Barbarossa
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Apr 15, 2023 12:40
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Twwwoooootons
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Apr 15, 2023 13:03
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+1 for Streamer's choice
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Apr 15, 2023 13:04
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Lets go with Barbarossa next. The achievement for this mission isn't too difficult, at least on Moderate. Genoa is a non-factor because War Galleys (They never upgraded to Galleon for whatever reason) can't get through a castle in the top-left corner of the base where they attack. Just get a few ships for a possible initial attack of Cannon Galleons and they can be ignored after the castle goes up. Jerusalem can be eliminated immediately with your starting ships going up the river to the right of your town and leaving them to attack on their own once they get to the Town Center. As for the rest, a mixed army of Elite Mamelukes and Heavy Cavalry Archers (I went with 20 of each IIRC, the population cap was only 100 when I did it, its 200 now) and half a dozen Trebuchets can clear the map with little issue, from left to right, the Franks, Genoa, the Knights Templar and then Richard the Lionheart. That army basically hard counters the Franks, and the Heavy Cav. Archers deal with Teutonic Knights that the Mamelukes struggle with. Any siege that attacks you can be dealt with by a few cheap Light Cavalry riding out and sniping them, 5-10 will do.
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Apr 15, 2023 13:40
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Barbarossa
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Apr 15, 2023 14:11
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Barbarossa.
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Apr 15, 2023 17:11
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Jossar posted:There's a Persian Outpost at the bottom of the map that's pretty much just a dock, but that's all you need as a trading partner. As the wiki notes, the ally and reinforcement may be based on a real Muslim fleet that broke through the Crusader blockade to supply Acre, but at this time, all of Saladin's Muslim neighbors were varying forms of remnants of the Abbasid Caliphate and Seljuk Empire, and the only dynasty that styled themselves Persian Shahs was in Khwarazm, Central Asia, some 3000 km away in the northeast. This improbable "elves reinforcing Helm's Deep" moment may be intentional foreshadowing, because we'll be seeing the Khwarazmian Empire soon enough. quote:Accursed Tower and the Tower of Flies. Highly effective super-towers that can mow down enemy troops with ease. Well, the Accursed Tower does at any rate. The Tower of Flies just sort of sits being useless in the bay. I make sure the Accursed Tower is fully garrisoned to max out its bonuses. Here's a thing: the first Assassin's Creed is the other major video game depiction of the Third Crusade, set immediately after Acre had fallen to Crusaders (the historical outcome we just averted). It features three cities: Damascus, Acre, and Jerusalem. As would become series tradition, the game recreates many architectural landmarks of Damascus and Jerusalem, including an (anachronistically) golden Dome of the Rock like we saw in this LP. For the sake of stylistic contrast, AC1 represents Crusader Acre as a tropey "plague & dung" medieval European city, complete with a towering cathedral half-built. Because this Acre is so heavily fictionalized, people always miss the historical structures it does contain: that includes the Accursed Tower and the Tower of Flies, based on their real ruins. The Accursed Tower would become the stage for an event of consequence in Assassin's Creed 2 - if you played AC2 or watched a cutscene compilation, you know what it is.  From Geop's LP: Overlooking the Tower of Flies from the impossible cathedral. (If I remember correctly. Haven't checked.) Meanwhile, the two towers in AoE2 reuse the old Western European tower sprite from the earliest days of AoK's development. It was the only tower model in this "thick" size, and had no counterpart in other building sets. AoE2DE would make up for that via adding cultural variations of a hero "Fortified Tower", although all the new tower models would be loads more luxurious than this one's raw masonry and crude roof tiles from being made as an ordinary WE Castle Age building. cuc fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 15, 2023 17:56
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There original campaigns have a sort of intended order of ascending difficulty(Siege of Paris notwithstanding) going William Wallace -> Jeanne d'Arc -> Saladin -> Genghis Khan -> Barbarossa that we've followed so far, hence my vote is Genghis Khan
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Apr 15, 2023 21:19
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Genghis Khan. Might as well finish the AoK campaigns in order.
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Apr 15, 2023 21:21
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Khaaaaan!
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Apr 15, 2023 21:29
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Khan It's my favourite of the original campaigns, I think.
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Apr 16, 2023 01:38
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A Khan For All Seasons
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Apr 16, 2023 04:04
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Vote's closed! It got pretty close there for a bit, but Genghis Khan won out in the end.
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Apr 16, 2023 04:40
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Genghis Khan - Part 1: Crucible Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Mongols Theme Very well, then let us begin, the tale of the man of iron.   Off to Asia this time. This is also the start of the campaigns that I have not beaten fully in this version of the game, so the campaign map will not be complete, but still give a generally good idea of where the action is happening.  Mission 1 Starting Text "A blue wolf took as his spouse a fallow doe. They settled at the head of the Onon River to raise their offspring. And there were born the Mongols. So begins my life's work, 'The Secret History of the Mongols.' I have been selected to compose this epic because great events are about to take place. We are going to leave Mongolia. I have lived always on this frigid, dry, and endless steppe. The tribes here squabble like vultures fighting over the desiccated corpse of a marmot. We fight over limited resources: scarce water, few trees, sparse grass for our herds to graze on. A wise and dangerous man named Temujin means to change all this. He says that if the tribal conflict is to end, the Mongols require but two things. First, we need green pastures for our herds. With more to go around, there will be less competition among the tribes. Second, we are a nation of warriors; we need a common enemy with which to do battle. To meet both these needs, Temujin has come up with the most modest of schemes: to unite the tribes and go to war with anyone who stands in our path. 'How?' we ask him. 'How can nomadic horsemen in felt tents embark on a campaign of world conquest?' Temujin replies that we will fight not as warriors, but as a unified army. We fight not for our glory, but for the glory of Mongolia. And with those words, the name of Temujin has passed almost into obscurity. His name is replaced with a title: Great Khan. Genghis Khan."  Light Cavalry: Behold! The horde of Genghis Khan approaches.  Genghis Khan: You men! You will visit each of the outlying tribes. You must convince as many as you can to join our glorious army. But beware the Kara-Khitai. They are without honor. And so Genghis Khan entrusts this task of monumental importance for the newborn Mongolian nation... to 4 Light Cavalry and 4 Cavalry Archers. The first mission of the campaign is functionally an RPG, where you run around the map completing quests for each of the tribes in order to win their support.  Ungirrads: We will follow you if you can prove to us that you are favored by the sky god. Bring to us a holy relic. Simple enough quest, albeit one that I can't complete for now as I don't have any monks. Note it down and move on.  Tayichi'uds: The Naiman are our enemy. If you drive them from the steppes, then and only then will we join you. The Naiman, of course, present the exact same proposal but flipped around. With careful micro I could just switch the Tayichi'uds to Enemy status, destroy them now and go to the Naiman, but I decide to play it safe. The Tayichi'uds are slightly easier to beat than the Naiman, but not by much.  I spot a couple of sheep while moving up to the next tribe and grab them. These are located throughout the map, and it's useful to try and pick them up when you can.  Kereyids: Winter has been hard and our warriors are hungry. Bring us 20 sheep and we will join you. If you are injured, our monks can heal you. Because the Kereyids request them for their quest.   A couple more sheep can be found in the surrounding countryside, but a large number can be obtained by tearing a hole in these Wooden Palisades and killing the Kara-Khitai Cavalry Archers herding the sheep.  Kereyids: Thank you, Great Khan. We will honor our word by providing you with these soldiers. This gives you a few more Cavalry Archers and some Monks. Don't lose these Monks before completing the Ungirrad quest, as it is either very difficult or impossible to replace them, and will effectively softlock the scenario.  Just to the southwest of the Kereyids is a Kara-Khitai Monastery guarded by a couple of Cavalry Archers, some Monks, and a Mangonel. Defeating them allows you to attack the Monastery at your leisure and force it to disgorge its relic. This is notably not the only Relic on the map, but it's the most conveniently located one, if you're willing to deal with the guards.  Ungirrads: You have done well in bringing us this artifact. We will ride with the Great Khan! For your trouble, the Ungirrads give you several of the Mongols' Unique Unit, the Mangudai. They are an especially micromanagement friendly Cavalry Archer. Mongols in general are a pretty micro heavy civilization, what with their focus on speed, raiding, and Siege. It's once again a change from the previous civilizations, especially if you got used to the Saracens' fairly flexible tech tree.  The Kara-Khitai have a couple of other small bases dotted across the map, but there's no real reason to deal with them once you've retrieved the relic. Just save your strength for the important fights.  Uighurs: You must prove that our people will benefit from this alliance. There is a great wolf, Ornlu, whose pack has been attacking our flocks. Slay him and we will join your horde. The final quest is to prove that you're not afraid of the big bad wolf. Can't be that much of a problem, right?   Welp.  Honestly, Ornlu isn't that bad of a fight, even for a Hero unit, although in this case he did catch one of my Monks off guard and rip them to shreds. He's kind of a mascot for the game, and cameos in a bunch of other scenarios under different names.  Uighurs: Yes, that is the pelt of the great wolf. We will join you, Genghis Khan. And to seal the agreement, we will give you the gift of flaming arrows! The Uighurs give you a couple of Camels and the Chemistry tech, a nice little bonus for your ranged units.   All that's left to do is destroy the Naiman and collect the pledge of the Tayichi'uds. The Tayichi'uds give you Light Cavalry, the Naiman would give you Cavalry Archers. Tayichi'uds: You have done well! We will ride with you. As this is the fourth tribe, I get a chime in from one of my troops and then the victory screen. Mongol Soldier: Four Mongol tribes now follow the banner of Genghis Khan. The rest of the world will soon know true fear. Mission 1 Ending Text "Nearly all of the Mongol tribes have united under the Great Khan. The chieftains of those tribes reluctant to join were boiled alive. Each day new faces have taken up the bow; unfamiliar hands hold the Nine Bands of yak hair that has become Genghis's standard. There are more men and horses gathered in the camp than I ever knew existed. Horse archers and lancers, men in leather cuirass and silk armor, all lift their heads upward to the platform from where Genghis speaks. The Great Khan calls himself the punishment of God. Men smile like hungry wolves. It is dawn of the first day of the Mongolian Empire." It's a lovely little scenario, possibly one of the best in the original game. It's full of character, unique, and doesn't outstay its welcome. The Ungirrads are the only tribe that has a real prerequisite to completing their quest, and the others can pretty much be completed in any order as long as you're decent at micro, which as stated above you'll need to start learning in any case if you want to play the Mongols well. Extra Slides Mission 1 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 6 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 7 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 8 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 9 Mission 1 - End Slide 1 Mission 1 - End Slide 2 Mission 1 - End Slide 3
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Apr 16, 2023 06:51
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I actually just did a Hard replay of this last night. I always tend to prefer siding with the Naiman because archers are better and they have towers, but the actual funny thing I tested is that you can, although it takes a bit, actually kite Ornlu out by himself and into the Uighur camp, where they'll throw themselves at him until they turn and thank you for killing him. It's easier to just kill him of course, but for Funsies.
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Apr 16, 2023 07:12
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Ah, there's one mission in every campaign that's iconic and this is the mongolian one. In fact, it's so iconic that they replicated it in the star wars game that uses the AOE2 engine.
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Apr 16, 2023 08:00
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Ah, the Mongols. From the game's original launch to today, consistently one of the top-tier multiplayer civilizations. The Celts and the Franks hover around the second tier of competitive civilizations (Celts are 2nd/3rd imo), and the Saracens are usually considered average to below average with the occasional high-end player really enjoying what they can do in the right hands, but the Mongols have always been a powerhouse.
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Apr 16, 2023 12:55
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I think you can still technically beat the scenario without monks by de-allying and killing the Ungirrads, but I'm too lazy to check. :vCythereal posted:Ah, the Mongols. From the game's original launch to today, consistently one of the top-tier multiplayer civilizations. The Celts and the Franks hover around the second tier of competitive civilizations (Celts are 2nd/3rd imo), and the Saracens are usually considered average to below average with the occasional high-end player really enjoying what they can do in the right hands, but the Mongols have always been a powerhouse. Yeah, Mongols are very strong. They have a great boost to their early economy (faster working hunters) and Mangudai deathballs are very difficult to stop. A lot of players would put Mangudai at the top spot, in terms of Unique Units, or at least in the top 3. The rest of their bonuses/tech tree isn't super exciting, apart from their siege weapons, but they have enough to transition to castle/mangudai consistently and that's really all it takes.
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Apr 16, 2023 15:09
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Turbo battering rams are pretty great, IMO. Never really tried them in multiplayer, though.
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Apr 16, 2023 15:15
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anilEhilated posted:Turbo battering rams are pretty great, IMO. Never really tried them in multiplayer, though. It's the turbo siege onagers that make Drill feared in multiplayer, not the battering rams. As far as tiers go in competitive high-end multiplayer, I'd put it something like this: Tier 1: Mongols, Chinese, Burgundians, Bohemians, Poles, Gurjaras Tier 1 are what I'd call the universal powerhouse civs. No matter the map, you can pick one of these and have an excellent chance of winning (depending on player skill). In fact, in organized tournaments it can be kind of rare to see these because players tend to ban one or more of these. Special note about the Chinese, me placing them this high is taking into account high-end multiplayer. They're one of those RTS factions that tends to lose a lot in the hands of players who aren't very experienced and skilled at the game, but correspondingly are extremely powerful in talented hands. Tier 2: Britons, Franks, Mayans, Hindustanis, Portugese, Malay, Khmer These are the civilizations I see as perennial powerhouses who routinely beat the tier 1 civs but nevertheless have some notable weaknesses and just aren't as reliably good. Tier 3: Byzantines, Celts, Japanese, Turks, Vikings, Aztecs, Huns, Spanish, Italians, Burmese, Lithuanians, Bengalis, Dravidians This is what I deem the tier of civs that are tier 1 in many matchups or on some maps, but have real trouble against other civs or maps. Some can consistently hang with the best of them if a player has a particular affinity for the civ and how they play. Tier 4: Goths, Persians, Saracens, Berbers, Ethiopians, Bulgarians, Cumans I'd say that these are the civs that are typically the underdogs facing an uphill climb. Upsets do happen every now and then, but aren't expected. Goths are a weird one here: they're infamously easy to learn and oppressive to new players, but dry up dramatically when you get to the upper tiers of the competitive circuit. Tier 5: Teutons, Koreans, Incas, Magyars, Slavs, Malians, Vietnamese, Tatars, Sicilians These factions have problems. Many on the surface have very high win rates - Teutons are AoE2's classic newbie civ in multiplayer - but appear very rarely in the high-end competitive scene and almost always lose when they do. Almost. The competitive scene in AoE2 continues to evolve, and the organized competitive circuit puts a real premium on encouraging the use of perceived low-tier civs, so it's quite possible to see just about any civ in the high-end circuit, especially as a mind game against a familiar opponent. Although probably not the Teutons or Incas. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 15:17
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Ah, the Mongol campaign. If the experience of revisiting other Ensemble Stuidos campaigns as a better historically informed adult can be summed up as "I see what you did there", then The Secret History of the Mongols: ES Edition is more like "WTF did I just watch!?"Cythereal posted:Chinese lose a lot in the hands of players who aren't very skilled, but correspondingly are extremely powerful in talented hands. Players who care more about your improvement would argue that Britons and Franks are too narrow and economically too strong to build good habits. A civ that helps beginners then needs to combine a wide tech tree (to teach the flexible use of all units) and limited economic bonus (to hone the macro fundamentals) without an easy crutch or being too unconventional. Some civs suggested using these criteria include Byzantines, Magyars, Italians, Vietnamese. Saracens are also often suggested, though their Market trading bonus is both a crutch at the beginning, and plays unconventionally at high level.
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Apr 16, 2023 18:41
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Huh. I haven't watched competitive Age of Empires II in a few years, I didn't know the Saracens were out of the doghouse even on an asterisk'd basis.
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Apr 16, 2023 19:12
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tracecomplete posted:Huh. I haven't watched competitive Age of Empires II in a few years, I didn't know the Saracens were out of the doghouse even on an asterisk'd basis. The last few years have seen a restructuring of the organized competitive multiplayer circuit in an effort to get more civ variety via letting players ban facing civs and draft civs in their selectable pool for tournaments, and the Saracens have been a notable beneficiary of being nobody's first choice but now you need to start making fourth and fifth choices. They're still a fairly rare sight in the high end circuit, and often lose even when they do appear, but they do have their advantages. Outside of market shenanigans, which don't tend to work in the high-end scene, they're mostly just a victim of 'Everything you'd pick the Saracens for another civ does better.'
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Apr 16, 2023 19:25
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Rattan Archers ftw.
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Apr 16, 2023 19:26
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Cythereal posted:The last few years have seen a restructuring of the organized competitive multiplayer circuit in an effort to get more civ variety via letting players ban facing civs and draft civs in their selectable pool for tournaments, and the Saracens have been a notable beneficiary of being nobody's first choice but now you need to start making fourth and fifth choices. They're still a fairly rare sight in the high end circuit, and often lose even when they do appear, but they do have their advantages. That was just starting when I dipped out, but it's cool to see! I'm sometimes tempted to get back into esports production as an AOE2 dork just because I love the game. This LP has had me backgrounding games on YouTube in the background all week.
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Apr 16, 2023 19:57
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Genghis Khan - Part 2: A Life of Revenge Mission 2 Starting Text "Winter has come to the steppes. The earth is frozen hard as bone, and the only movement is steam rising from the nostrils of men and horses. Only the promise of battle brings warmth. Nearly all the tribes of Mongolia now answer to Genghis Khan. But with success, comes enemies. A man named Kushluk has challenged Genghis' right to rule. Kushluk sows discord among the Kara-Khitai tribe and means to have himself proclaimed as a rival Khan. Genghis cannot allow these transgressions to go unpunished. He needs to set an example. So we ride west, to find and slay Kushluk. If the Kara-Khitai shelter him, then their lives are forfeit as well."  Light Cavalry: I spotted a Tayichi'ud village to the north. Perhaps the inhabitants can be 'persuaded' to join us.  Tayichi'uds: Please, don't hurt us! We can aid in your blood feud! Like the last mission, you only have a couple of troops to start with. Here, you're thrown right into an assault on a small village. Make sure to kill only the enemy troops, as everything else flips to your side afterwards.   Kara-Khitai: We will destroy this great tent. Genghis Khan will sleep in the dirt with the camels. You also can't waste too much time, as the Kara-Khitai will start sending troops to attack the Tent relatively quickly. They'll focus on the surrounding yurts before the Wonder though, so there's a little bit more breathing room than you think. I'm forced to build some Spearmen and Skirmishers as a stopgap measure after repeated waves wear down my initial troops.  Eventually, I make it to the Castle Age, which is the limit for this scenario. The other notable restriction is that nobody except Kushluk can build Siege (and he only really shoves Scorpions at you), so a Castle is pretty much all the Wonder needs to protect itself from this point forward.  This just means that the Kara-Khitai redirect their efforts towards my village. But since they don't have any siege, Stone Walls are enough to keep them out until a suitable cleanup crew of Mangudai can arrive to destroy their forces.   With the construction of a second Castle, my defense is pretty much secured. Now it's time to go on the offense.  Kara-Khitai: Kushluk is our guest. It would be most rude for us to send him away... Kushluk: It's Genghis Khan! We must flee! I have my Mangudai try to snipe Kushluk, but they fail and he makes a break for it. The assassination method is possible, though it usually requires a much more specialized strategy.  Kushluk: Run away! Run away!   If Kushluk makes it over the river, you pretty much have to accept that you're going to have to do this the long way, as his base will activate and send troops to supplement those of the Kara-Khitai. My Mangudai do their best to fight their way out as I shift towards a mass production economy of regular Cavalry Archers, Mangudai, and Light Cavalry. I probably should've included some Infantry to take advantage of the tech that lets them do increased damage against buildings in the absence of Siege, but I wanted to save the gold for more Cavalry Archers instead.  Smashing the Kara-Khitai first is necessary because you don't want your offensive army to suffer attacks on multiple fronts, and they never stop streaming out troops. Their villagers will try to rebuild, but they honestly never become a really great threat after the initial destruction of their base.  Yup, there's those Scorpions in action.    Kushluk's forces are tenacious, but without the Kara-Khitai they don't have enough oomph to stop the steamroller. Kushluk himself hides in the southwestern corner of his base next to the Town Center. Kill him, and that's victory. Mongol Soldier: Such is the vengeance of the Great Khan. Mission 2 Ending Text "Genghis Khan knows that there are weapons aside from the lance and bow. He is a master of mental warfare. Just as he has made an example of Kushluk, he makes examples of enemy lands. When first we encounter a new adversary, the Great Khan spares no one. We ride to the closest town, slay every living thing, burn down the city, sow the fields with salt, and make a mountain of enemy skulls. After that, the other towns are quick to send forth their emissaries, eager to placate the ravenous Mongol hordes." This is the mission where the game starts getting mean. The Kara-Khitai troops swarm fairly hard and it's easy for an inexperienced player to get overwhelmed by them early on. After you set up your defenses you can't really lose any more, but it's certainly possible to end up in an annoying stalemate for a while, and Kushluk bolting to the other side of the map and supplementing the Kara-Khitai forces is a pretty big troll. Makes it very satisfying to plan out a way to kill him in under 20 minutes for the achievement. Extra Slides Mission 2 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 2 - End Slide 1 Mission 2 - End Slide 2 Mission 2 - End Slide 3
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Apr 16, 2023 22:37
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Is there a point in still building regular cavalry archers after you get a castle? I thought Mangudai pretty much replace them.
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Apr 16, 2023 22:43
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Faster production time because it's easier to spam Archery Ranges than it is to spam Castles. That's about it.
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Apr 16, 2023 22:51
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in campaigns i have on occasion spammed scouts and used them to draw enemy fire while i attack with my effective cavalry. edit: oh wait i missed the archers bit in cavalry archers. yeah what jossar said
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Apr 16, 2023 22:58
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Jossar posted:Faster production time because it's easier to spam Archery Ranges than it is to spam Castles. That's about it. Yeah, in competitive multiplayer it's pretty rare to see Mongol horse archers and when you do it's usually because they're short on stone for castles. Which itself tends to be a sign of a downward spiral so it rarely works out. Few civilizations in competitive multiplayer are so thoroughly defined by their UU as the Mongols. Mangudai are routinely touted as one of the most powerful unique units in the game, and I don't disagree.
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Apr 17, 2023 01:42
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Crucible, Historical Outcome In a way this level is the strangest, because Secret History has a ready-tailored, court-sanctioned heroic narrative for Temujin's origin: born into exile, tough upbringing, childhood oath of brotherhood with Jamukha, working as mercenaries for Ong Khan - a proxy of the distant Jurchen Golden Empire, growing rivalry with Jamukka over who would be the future unifier of the steppes, the bitter end. The level could have had the same structure while keeping this traditional narrative, with a final showdown added at the end, instead of "you play remorseless monsters all the way". The "boiling alive" punishment was what Jamukha did to his prisoners of war after defeating Temujin, and his cruelty was what caused tribes to defect from the winning side and join Temujin. Kara-Khitai: So rather than letting Jamukha be the Level 1 boss, they felt they could introduce Kara-Khitan as an early threat to connect the first level to the next. Kereyids a.k.a. Keraites: this is the tribe led by Temujin's ex-boss Ong Khan, who later plotted against Temujin's growing power. Ong Khan was killed, and the tribe scattered and run away off the steppes. Naimans: Naimans were a major tribe that initially sided with Jamukha. The Kereids and Naimans were Christians - this is going to matter in the next chapter. Tayichi'uds: They were Temujin's bitter enemies, and were completely destroyed. Ungirrads: The tribe of Temujin's mother and first wife. Uighurs: They ruled the steppes once. Due to a series of events, they had left the steppes westward for the Central Asian part of Western China a few centuries ago. The AoE wiki thinks this faction may represent the Qocho Kingdom, an oasis civilization ruled by the arrived Uighurs. Ensemble must be dimly aware that they speak a Turkic language, which is why they mistakenly had the Kereids played by Turks in original AoK. DE corrected Kereids to Mongols, and let Uighurs be Tatars in DE (in that civ's secondary role as "basket for pre-Chinggis Khan Turkic speakers"). Also if you want to go down the rabbit hole: 1) The word "Tatar" or its equivalents have an extremely complicated usage history. We'll speak more on the chaos during the Tatar campaign. 2) To steppe nomads, their tribal families were more constant than the larger confederations and empires their tribes had allegiance to. In steppe history, you sometimes see the same tribe reemerge under the wings of different empires. And today you have Mongol Naimans, Kazakh Naimans, and Hazara Naimans in Afghanistan, speaking respectively Mongol, Turkic and Persian languages - the tribal family groups have stayed together as they spread out with the Mongol Empire, but their cultures and languages have assimilated into the local majority. cuc fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 10:47
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Yeah Genghis Khan seems like a very interesting figure in general and the accounts of his early life sound suitably dramatic, I'm guessing they didn't want a repeat of "rivalry with another Mongol commander" in the campaign and favored Kushluk for some reason. The stuff about boiling enemies alive is also continued throughout the campaign with the narrator cheerfully describing horrible things that are  and  in equal measure, compared to the others this is pretty explicitly a much darker and "villainous" campaign.
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Apr 17, 2023 12:04
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Dan Carlin is the ultimate History Dad with all the caveats that implies, and I'm sure his coverage of this is no less spotty than some of his other shows But having said that: boy Dan Carlin has never been more on his loving game than reading the firsthand accounts of the poo poo the Mongols would do and brag about in his Wrath of the Khans series.
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Apr 17, 2023 13:12
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i agree with the other poster that genghis khan's whole Thing is as completely bananas as joan of arc's the guy came up through blood and grit to rule a bunch of nomads in the middle of nowhere. then those nomads conquered half of eurasia it's like he found the cheat codes somewhere and just went wild with it
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Apr 17, 2023 13:27
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Killing Kushluk early for the achievement can be done in several ways, the most reliable I found is to grab the village, get to feudal and produce a dozen or so extra scouts. Use one as a sacrifice to draw out the enemy army (the AI is very one-track minded and will throw its entire army at enemy attacks, and will happily chase a single unit over the entire map) while the rest of your army breaks through all three palisade lines from the south; this avoids the trigger that makes Kushluk run away long enough that you can damage him before he flees and once he takes damage he will stand and fight. This is also possible with just your starting units, but extremely luck dependent.
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Apr 17, 2023 13:34
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I picked up John Man's The Mongol Empire a couple of years ago, I remember that one being a solid read. Maybe one I should revisit at some point.
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Apr 17, 2023 14:01
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Another mission with an achievement, and its quite easy to be honest. Take your entire army south until you find the Watch Tower, and hit it with one Light Cavalry as bait, while the rest of the army waits near the palisade wall. Once the enemy army arrives, move your bait away (I shift-clicked a large square twice around the wonder on the minimap) and move the rest of your army into the Kara-Khitai base, moving along the wall, as close to it as possible. When you get to the second palisade seperating you from Kushluk, destroy the lowest piece of it and enter the gap you've made. Attack Kushluk from the left and he'll die in a short time after you engage him. Once he's dead, just micro a little bit until you get the win. It should take about 4 minutes in total. The Mongol campaign is a lot of fun, there's nothing like a near unstoppable horde of Mangudai and some Trebuchets rampaging through a map. biscuits and crazy fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 18:07
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V. Illych L. posted:i agree with the other poster that genghis khan's whole Thing is as completely bananas as joan of arc's It's a recurring gag on several history blogs, podcasts, and youtube series that whenever you're talking about general rules of the development of nations and civilizations, you regularly have to add an asterisk for 'except for/unless you're the Mongols.'
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Apr 17, 2023 18:12
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A Life of Revenge, Historical Outcome Kara-Khitai: They really were heroes of their own epic. Amid the chaos of the fall of the Tang dynasty, a Mongolic people from Northeast China (Manchuria), the Khitans, seized much of Northern China and founded the Liao dynasty. They had an interesting government where they had four seasonal capital cities for a roaming court, and administered the Han Chinese and steppe territories by different systems. Their participation in international trade gave rise to the "Kithay" or "Cathay" family of names for China in many languages. 200 years later, the Liao was losing ground to another northeastern upstart, the Jurchens' Jin or Golden empire (unrelated to the Han Chinese "Jin" of 3rd to 5th century). A prince named Yelü Dashi, the last hope of the dynasty, took flight into Central Asia to re-establish a Chinese-style court there (which was definitely not a big tent), now known as Qara-Khitan or Western Liao. This put them on a collision course with the Seljuk Empire, masters of the entire Middle East east of Egypt, recently recovering from decades of instability. At the behest of Khwarazm, in the 1141 Battle of Qatwan, Yelü Dashi decisively defeated the Seljuks, and took over their overlordship of Central Asia, sending Seljuks back into a falling trajectory. It has been theorized that Crusader hearsay of this battle was the seed for the European legend of Prester John - a priest-king who presides over a marvelous Christian kingdom, a beacon of hope from outside the infidels surrounding Europe. Kushluk, or Kuchlug: If not for the pesky Temujin, he would have been the second coming of Yelü Dashi.  You can find a summary of his life on Wikipedia, which makes for a short and riveting read. To recap: - Son of the Naiman chief, he took refuge in the great empire of Qara-Khitan, where cracks were already showing in its foundation. - He managed to marry an imperial princess, and usurp his father-in-law with Khwarazm's help. - Remember that the Naimans were Nestorian Christians, and the Qara-Khitan royal family were Buddhists, ruling over a region that was being steadily assimilated into a Turko-Persianate Islam culture (both peacefully and violently). After converting to Buddhism, for who knows what reason, he revoked the empire's religious freedom policy, a cornerstone of its rule, and began persecuting Muslims and enjoying his newfound power in general, as if he'd completely forgotten about THAT GUY who beat his dad and made him run all the way here in the first place. - A city he was attacking called the Mongols to help. Time for BEHIND YOU.JPG Jossar posted:Mission 2 Ending Text And as we can see, the problem is that Ensemble designers figured "hey, Chapter 2! time to teach kids about Mongol terror and psychological warfare!", and because the actual story is so not that, they had to chop practically everything off to fit it into their box. This story by itself just happens to be perfect material for a different writer, someone who wants a more positive portrayal of Chinggis Khan, to contrast Kuchlug's petty tyranny (and the coercive conversion and defacing of religious art by the Qara-Khanids who ruled before Yelü Dashi) with the Khan's law of religious tolerance. "Sowing fields with salt" is of course, American nerds invoking lazy Classical tropes out of habit. ==== Filthydelphia, author of some of the best official campaigns you'll see in this LP, is also a prolific maker of custom campaigns on the side. If you want a reimagining of these two levels, try his single scenario Rise of Genghis Khan. It's not his best work, but shows off some modern gameplay design. This is also a question for the OP: after we've cleared most of the official campaigns, will you be interested to do custom ones? cuc fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 19:02
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People seemed to find my posts about the competitive multiplayer scene interesting, so I hope Jossar doesn't mind if I offer some further information about the civs in multiplayer as the LP plays them (I'll catch up on the existing ones). Competitive Multiplayer Overview: The Mongols Unique Unit: Mangudai - cavalry archer with an attack bonus against siege weapons. Unique Techs: Nomads: Makes Houses keep their population space if they are destroyed. Drill: Increases the movement speed of Siege Workshop units by +50%. Civ Bonuses: Cavalry archers fire 25% faster. Light Cavalry, Hussars, and Steppe Lancers have +30% HP Hunters work +40% faster Scout Cavalry line has +2 Line of Sight. Competitive Rating: Very High The Mongols are proof that sometimes you don't need a plan B if you have a really good plan A. A good Mongol player in competitive AoE 2 multi will use their scouts to find huntable animals right from the start of the game, use their faster hunters to get an early food lead, curtail enemy expansion with their scouts, then go for the kill with mangudai backed up by siege, flooding with light cavalry/hussar meat shields. In the hands of an experienced player, this is a very difficult plan to stop. Just because it's a straightforward strategy, though, doesn't mean the Mongols are easy to play. High-end competitive AoE 2 is all about map awareness and control, seizing small advantages in the dark and feudal ages that can snowball into an insuperable edge in the castle age where the majority of high-end multiplayer games spend their deciding time. The Mongols both cater to this kind of gameplay, and struggle to survive without an excellent grasp of the fundamentals. They also demand good micromanagement and awareness of the ebb and flow of the game. Bowling over inexperienced players with a bunch of mangudai is easy, but experienced players are well aware of how slow to mass they are and how fragile they can be. Playing the Mongols well in multiplayer is about getting those little advantages and shepherding them well with great micromanagement and map awareness. Mongols do particularly well on not only wide open Arabia type maps, but also mixed (i.e. maps with both land and water) maps, as they get a surprisingly good naval tech tree. More recently, the fact that the Mongols get cavaliers and heavy camels has started to get more attention as supplementary tools to help cope with recent additions to the scene like the Hindustanis and the Poles. These units are nothing particularly special in Mongol hands, but used selectively they can create an important edge against other cavalry-heavy civs. When the Mongols lose, it tends to be because of a critical skill mistake later in the game, or if the enemy can curtail the Mongol expansion early and prevent them from getting the advantages they need.
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Apr 17, 2023 22:19
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