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Gaz-L posted:One thing that hit me earlier today: Why did Picard not know about Jack? I don't mean in-universe, I mean in writing terms. Would it have changed anything if they were just estranged? In fact, I think it would've made the one theme Terry's clearly going for sing better. Jack told his old man to gently caress off when he was a teenager, went off to do outreach with his mum, and then the Vadic stuff happens, and now they're forced together for the first time in years and have to address each other's issues. And especially Picard then sees how his baggage has impacted Jack, leading into his ultimate baggage with the Borg having become the sin of the father. ...How are the Borg Picard's fault though? Like what did he do to cause this situation at all, except be abducted and mindfucked by an uncaring horrific hive of cyborgs? Like what did he do to cause the Borg? Guy was just doing his job, Q introduced him to the Borg early so the Federation had any chance of beating them at all, as they were already destroying colonies in the Neutral Zone, and then he got abducted off his own bridge. He didn't provoke them. Like Jean-Luc has done some lovely things but the Borg are absolutely not his fault. If anything Janeway theoretically provoked them way more. Unless they state somehow Picard specific actions hosed with the Borg (like again, Hugh) he's pretty faultless on that one. Wrath of Khan- Kirk DID directly affect Khan, and that's why it's way more powerful, combined with the comparison of Kirk and Khan's sons and their upbringing.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:10
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TerminalRaptor posted:Maybe we can get that ship of evolved dinosaurs back too. I love the Voth and will defend them over a lot of other things in Voyager: they are a goofy as gently caress idea and also loving Dinosaurs, and that's pretty awesome The Voth are fun, a lot of Voyager ideas are fun, they just have little development on the interesting ideas so they fall a flat. I would take a Voth season over this poo poo TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 19:15
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Voyager's big feature, which did work well sometimes, was that it wasn't afraid to just do something just batshit weird and absurd.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:23
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There should have been a shot during the Borg takeover that canonically established Harry Kim as the only unassimilated Ensign left in Starfleet.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:25
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TulliusCicero posted:...How are the Borg Picard's fault though? That his emotional arch, the PTSD of doing something completely out of his control but knowing he was the face of it and his memories and knowledge helped the borg.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:26
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SpartanIvy posted:There should have been a shot during the Borg takeover that canonically established Harry Kim as the only unassimilated Ensign left in Starfleet.  MikeJF posted:Voyager's big feature, which did work well sometimes, was that it wasn't afraid to just do something just batshit weird and absurd. Yeah Voyager was many things but it definitely took a shot into the wierd sometimes STO has been successful at taking a lot of Voyager's initial ideas and developing them into interesting plots/ concepts. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 19:26
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MikeJF posted:Voyager's big feature, which did work well sometimes, was that it wasn't afraid to just do something just batshit weird and absurd. Bride of Chaotica! is one of my favourite episodes, because it’s dumb as hell but everyone leaned into it being dumb as hell and just went full ham. Janeway has to be Queen of the Spider people? Fine, she’s going to do it and she’s going to chew the scenery while she’s at it.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:29
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MikeJF posted:Voyager's big feature, which did work well sometimes, was that it wasn't afraid to just do something just batshit weird and absurd. See Course: Oblivion. Which I also really like, as dark and hosed up as it is.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:29
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apatheticman posted:That his emotional arch, the PTSD of doing something completely out of his control but knowing he was the face of it and his memories and knowledge helped the borg. I get that and in Family it was well done, but dude needs to forgive himself. For gently caress sake man you were a victim of one of the worst violations imaginable, get some therapy and forgive yourself  I was specifically addressing the idea that the Borg are somehow Picard's legacy or sin: like no? Everything the Borg do is not Picard's fault. The Borg are doing what they do because that's all they know how to do, Queen lusting after Picard aside. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Apr 17, 2023 |
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Apr 17, 2023 19:29
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Voyager wasn't afraid to do weird every now and then. It's sin was never having lasting consequences for a show about a ship on a long (epic) journey.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:30
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TulliusCicero posted:I get that and in Family is was well done, but dude needs to forgive himself. In fairness I was more getting that his trauma over the Borg is his legacy, not the Borg themself.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:33
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TerminalRaptor posted:Voyager wasn't afraid to do weird every now and then. It's sin was never having lasting consequences for a show about a ship on a long (epic) journey. Year of Hell loving owned and should have been the show Like a wierd Frankenstein's monster Intrepid with various other ship parts and Voyager carving out alliances with Delta Quadrant powers. Man Voyager might be the biggest waste of potential in Trek for just "amazing idea squandered"
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Apr 17, 2023 19:36
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TulliusCicero posted:Year of Hell loving owned and should have been the show I don't know if it was an actual studio pitch or someone's "how it should have been" fanfiction, but it was suggested at one point that Voyager would become basically the Battlestar Galactica of a fleet of Delta Quadrant refugees or folks who just want a better life somewhere else and thus the fleet becomes its own little mobile Federation in the Delta Quadrant after a while. But there'd have to be real episode-to-episode continuity to pull that off, even if they didn't go full serialization with it. It would have made some of those "illusory shortcut home" episodes like Hope and Fear have a little more weight behind them. Because then you can have a moral dilemma over whether everyone makes it to the Alpha Quadrant, or just Voyager. And then rather than just destroy the Equinox and never mention it again, you can turn it into the Pegasus from BSG and just have it there in the background of the fleet once you deal with Ransom. angerbeet posted:Bride of Chaotica! is one of my favourite episodes, because it’s dumb as hell but everyone leaned into it being dumb as hell and just went full ham. Janeway has to be Queen of the Spider people? Fine, she’s going to do it and she’s going to chew the scenery while she’s at it. It actually makes me kind of sad that Chaotica didn't become the Moriarty of Voyager. Could you imagine Janeway having to square off against a self-aware Doctor Chaotica who still thinks and acts like he's a 1930s sci-fi serial villain, only with access to 24th century knowledge and technology? Gaaaaawd.
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Apr 17, 2023 19:56
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nine-gear crow posted:I don't know if it was an actual studio pitch or someone's "how it should have been" fanfiction, but it was suggested at one point that Voyager would become basically the Battlestar Galactica of a fleet of Delta Quadrant refugees or folks who just want a better life somewhere else and thus the fleet becomes its own little mobile Federation in the Delta Quadrant after a while. But there'd have to be real episode-to-episode continuity to pull that off, even if they didn't go full serialization with it. iirc that was the idea Ron Moore floated to the Voyager writer's room in the month or so he was there before he gave up on Trek
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Apr 17, 2023 19:58
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nine-gear crow posted:I don't know if it was an actual studio pitch or someone's "how it should have been" fanfiction, but it was suggested at one point that Voyager would become basically the Battlestar Galactica of a fleet of Delta Quadrant refugees or folks who just want a better life somewhere else and thus the fleet becomes its own little mobile Federation in the Delta Quadrant after a while. But there'd have to be real episode-to-episode continuity to pull that off, even if they didn't go full serialization with it. This idea is awesome: I love the idea of a mini Federation flotilla wandering about the Delta Quadrant. That's such a cool idea gently caress me the Executives on Voyager were extra stupid about that show
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Apr 17, 2023 20:03
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nine-gear crow posted:It actually makes me kind of sad that Chaotica didn't become the Moriarty of Voyager. Could you imagine Janeway having to square off against a self-aware Doctor Chaotica who still thinks and acts like he's a 1930s sci-fi serial villain, only with access to 24th century knowledge and technology? Gaaaaawd. It might be a little too Lost In Space but I’d want him to never actually update the useless ‘Satan’s Robot,’ because it’s already “perfect” or created by his grandmother or something.
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Apr 17, 2023 20:04
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angerbeet posted:It might be a little too Lost In Space but I’d want him to never actually update the useless ‘Satan’s Robot,’ because it’s already “perfect” or created by his grandmother or something. Or just stick with what happens in Bride of Chaotica! and Satan's Robot has a complete face turn that sticks and he's just a part of Captain Proton's crew from there onward.
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Apr 17, 2023 20:07
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Yea Voyager had like 2 good episodes per series where it just went mad. Year of Hell, Chaotica, Living Witness, that sorta stuff
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Apr 17, 2023 20:08
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I wanted weirder darker serialized voyager when I was younger. Now it's like a dumb refreshing trekky breeze.
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Apr 17, 2023 20:09
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External Organs posted:I wanted weirder darker serialized voyager when I was younger. Now it's like a dumb refreshing trekky breeze. (In unison) “Warp particles!”
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Apr 17, 2023 20:11
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External Organs posted:I wanted weirder darker serialized voyager when I was younger. Now it's like a dumb refreshing trekky breeze. Voyager is the hard seltzer of Trek, and that’s okay.
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Apr 17, 2023 20:15
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External Organs posted:I wanted weirder darker serialized voyager when I was younger. Now it's like a dumb refreshing trekky breeze. Dark and serialized would be pushing it especially since we've seen that at its worst now with crap like Discovery and Picard, but I wouldn't mind a version of Voyager that at least treated its characters with the same level of respect that Deep Space Nine did.
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Apr 17, 2023 20:20
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angerbeet posted:(In unison) “Warp particles!” Take this cheese to sickbay!
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Apr 17, 2023 20:28
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TulliusCicero posted:...How are the Borg Picard's fault though? Ummmm he didn’t even try to fight his assimilation with the power of love and friendship like Alison Pill did.
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Apr 17, 2023 20:32
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Falcorum posted:Take this cheese to sickbay! Was there even coffee in that nebula?
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Apr 17, 2023 20:34
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Pops Mgee posted:Ummmm he didn’t even try to fight his assimilation with the power of love and friendship like Alison Pill did. I didn't watch season 2 but every time I see this, I just picture her in Scott Pilgrim banging her drumsticks together. "WE ARE SEX BOB-BORG!"
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Apr 17, 2023 20:59
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TerminalRaptor posted:Voyager wasn't afraid to do weird every now and then. It's sin was never having lasting consequences for a show about a ship on a long (epic) journey. If anything the format lent itself to having episodic weird one-off stories. Every week is a new, never-before-explored region, and whatever wacky poo poo they find can be safely left behind and ignored for the rest of time once they move on.
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Apr 17, 2023 21:03
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There’s just no other captain who could pull off fighting giant viruses with a bandolier of hyposprays. Is Picard going to do that? No.
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Apr 17, 2023 21:08
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angerbeet posted:There’s just no other captain who could pull off fighting giant viruses with a bandolier of hyposprays. Is Picard going to do that? No. Kirk absolutely would. I think you forget just how batshit a lot of TOS was.
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Apr 17, 2023 21:15
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TulliusCicero posted:I love the Voth and will defend them over a lot of other things in Voyager: they are a goofy as gently caress idea and also loving Dinosaurs, and that's pretty awesome The Voth are back to reclaim their home planet. Great start, hard to crap up established cannon, as many battles as you want. I would watch that.
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Apr 17, 2023 21:15
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Gaz-L posted:I didn't watch season 2 but every time I see this, I just picture her in Scott Pilgrim banging her drumsticks together. "Jean-Luc, if your life had a face, I would punch it."
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Apr 17, 2023 21:19
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CaptainSkinny posted:The Voth are back to reclaim their home planet. Great start, hard to crap up established cannon, as many battles as you want. I would watch that. And since theyre clearly not afraid to snag things from STO, we break out the laser dinosaurs. The mothership will have a velociraptor with pilot goggles on as the pilot.
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Apr 17, 2023 21:23
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Pyroi posted:And since theyre clearly not afraid to snag things from STO, we break out the laser dinosaurs. Dr Dinosaur?
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Apr 17, 2023 21:28
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Pyroi posted:And since theyre clearly not afraid to snag things from STO, we break out the laser dinosaurs. All of the humans are assimilated at the moment, only cetacean ops can save the day.
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Apr 17, 2023 21:51
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CaptainSkinny posted:The Voth are back to reclaim their home planet. Great start, hard to crap up established cannon, as many battles as you want. I would watch that. Honestly thinking about it you can totally make this idea work: the Theocratic Voth find out about the Transwarp conduit Borg tech from a previously unknown probe from Voyager, they are advanced as gently caress technologically so they figure it out and warp their way into the Alpha Quadrant. ...except instead of being like the Intrepid lost in space while being Federation Boy scouts, the Voth just start taking shots at anything that moves and start building a new empire. Hell they want to destroy Earth because it proves their entire system of belief wrong, and the Higher ups in Voth society can't deal with that. Make Amanda Plummer a Lizard Lady you loving cowards CaptainSkinny posted:All of the humans are assimilated at the moment, only cetacean ops can save the day. Lmao if a Voth invasion saved Earth from the Borg at the exact moment That would actually be funny
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Apr 17, 2023 21:58
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Wierd question: why would the Borg Queen make moms happy? Are moms a fan of Alice Krige? Terry you are such a wierd boy
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Apr 17, 2023 22:06
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All mothers love the Borg-Queen, studies show.
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Apr 17, 2023 22:20
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She's a strong independent cyborg who don't need no man (except Picard... and also the creepy maternal/sexual thing she had for Seven)
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Apr 17, 2023 22:23
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"Alice, for the next take could you say "Tidy your room Terry!" in a stern voice?"
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Apr 17, 2023 22:34
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TulliusCicero posted:Wierd question: why would the Borg Queen make moms happy? I suspect he was trying to even out the "Not your daddy's Star Trek" promotional phrase from earlier, which followed Enterprise execs justifying certain things like gel decon by saying only young men watch Star Trek, in which case he would have really meant "fans of TNG/VOY are going to love that the Borg are back"
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Apr 17, 2023 22:36
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