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bulletsponge13 posted:I can't wait until he gets framed as a hero by certain spheres in the media. Certain treason enthusiast congressmembers already are doing this.
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Apr 22, 2023 20:08
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I've got Seattle on one side, Tacoma on the other, and Bangor across the sound so my nuclear war plans are to become free radicals
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Apr 22, 2023 20:40
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HonorableTB posted:I've got Seattle on one side, Tacoma on the other, and Bangor across the sound so my nuclear war plans are to become free radicals We'll all just turn into chill & relaxed atoms on extended leave.
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Apr 22, 2023 21:20
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https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1649246577205350400?s=20 funny goodness, looking forward to F-15 video next
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Apr 22, 2023 23:02
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A.o.D. posted:I work in the world's largest rocket factory. I'm not worried about my post nuclear future. I live near one of San Diego's many naval bases. I'm not worried either. My plan to stand outside with a paper towel roll sticking out of my pants while I give the missile the finger and hope my shadow gets burnt into a wall.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:09
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I live near one of San Diego's many naval bases. I'm not worried either. My plan to stand outside with a paper towel roll sticking out of my pants while I give the missile the finger and hope my shadow gets burnt into a wall. Huntsville would 100% get flattened. Redstone Arsenal and all of the local defense industry related businesses around would ensure that. Maybe people on the other side of Monte Sano and Chapman mountains would survive, but the city would end up smoldering, radioactive red clay. I guess the basement here would survive as long as the house didn't collapse into it, but that would make a lovely bunker. Best case scenario is one of our vehicles is still useable and 72 is clear as an escape route. To loving where though? Coastal Georgia? gently caress it. Same deal as you. Wiggle my dick at the incoming apocalypse and hope for the best. Although... nuclear fire might clear up the pollen and mosquitos some.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:39
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I live next to a place with nukes and my workplace is also assuredly a target. So I'm gonna get vaporized unless I'm driving between the two.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:50
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madeintaipei posted:gently caress it. Same deal as you. Wiggle my dick at the incoming apocalypse and hope for the best. Although... nuclear fire might clear up the pollen and mosquitos some. According to the esteemed futurist series Fallout, radiation just makes mosquitoes bigger and meaner. Sorry.
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Apr 22, 2023 23:52
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Carth Dookie posted:According to the esteemed futurist series Fallout, radiation just makes mosquitoes bigger and meaner. Sorry. Great. My luck, I end up a ghoul. Endless mega-squitos, forever. I should really stock up on 12ga.
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Apr 23, 2023 00:07
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Personally, I look forward to rad scorpions with ghetto blasters doing noseblunts over the smouldering remains of my city
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Apr 23, 2023 00:20
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I used to live immediately behind the Pentagon. Now I live nestled between DC, Goddard Space Center, and Ft. Meade. I'm boned either way. My wife does not like this topic whenever it comes up Her family likes to ask from time to time how bad things would be and surely even if it was only ONE bomb hitting DC, they would be fine. lol, no.
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Apr 23, 2023 00:46
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Arc Light posted:Precisely. Severity of punishment does not really deter. Literally nobody will leak the files if the sentence is 10 years but not leak if the sentence is 50 years. "Research underscores the more significant role that certainty plays in deterrence than severity — it is the certainty of being caught that deters a person from committing crime, not the fear of being punished or the severity of the punishment." https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf
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Apr 23, 2023 00:53
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Handsome Ralph posted:I used to live immediately behind the Pentagon. Now I live nestled between DC, Goddard Space Center, and Ft. Meade. I'm boned either way. My wife does not like this topic whenever it comes up Her family likes to ask from time to time how bad things would be and surely even if it was only ONE bomb hitting DC, they would be fine. lol, no. In a way, we're all wilo567's balls. Denuded, irradiated, moisturized, in our lane, flourishing.
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Apr 23, 2023 01:02
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I'm assuming the first 30 minutes of spicy cooking dust blowing east from the Great Pascagoula Pit (formerly doing business as Ingalls Shipbuilding) will take care of my family
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Apr 23, 2023 01:04
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I'm thinking of looking up how to write "Hit here for extra points" in Chinese and painting it on my roof next to a bullseye.
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Apr 23, 2023 01:42
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Blistex posted:I live above a Minuteman missile silo, and below another Minuteman missile silo. Imagining WW3 and you hitting the ceiling with a broom. “Hey keep it down up there!”
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Apr 23, 2023 02:10
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Cool Kids Club Soda posted:Personally, I look forward to rad scorpions with ghetto blasters doing noseblunts over the smouldering remains of my city in a half pipe made up of ground down human teeth.
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Apr 23, 2023 02:48
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mlmp08 posted:Sure, deterring criminal behavior is a key focus of the court system. But that doesn’t mean people are only deterred by 50 years in prison. IIRC studies on deterrence wrt criminal penalties function on two things 1) does the person believe that they will be caught (and this is the biggest factor) and 2) how severe are the penalties, with ofc diminishing returns on super long prison sentences (iirc the drop off is around 10 years but don't quote me on that). edit: beaten by vahakyla with the study and everything Vahakyla posted:Severity of punishment does not really deter. Literally nobody will leak the files if the sentence is 10 years but not leak if the sentence is 50 years. key thing wrt severity is that there does have to be a consequences because 'will not get caught' is effectively the same in the risk assessment as 'there is no penalty for being caught.' That ofc comes out of a criminal justice context so the argument is made in the context of the question whether we should legislate more mandatory minimums and 3-strikes-laws and so on. I suspect that there's also a weakness of simply transposing that onto mishandling classified materials cases because basically everyone in those cases will have been educated previously on the consequences of mishandling materials and likely has a better understanding of what happens if you willfully start leaking stuff than, like, some dude selling drugs does of all the potential laws he's breaking. It's a peculiar case because you actually could educated everyone on how bad the consequences are, though tbh there probably isn't much point making the penalties much more extreme since the current situation where it ends your career, you go to prison for a non-trivial amount of years, and you end up in a huge amount of very public disgrace is hard to top. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 04:23
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Herstory Begins Now posted:IIRC studies on deterrence wrt criminal penalties function on two things 1) does the person believe that they will be caught (and this is the biggest factor) and 2) how severe are the penalties, with ofc diminishing returns on super long prison sentences (iirc the drop off is around 10 years but don't quote me on that). meanwhile, in the bay area, we are performing extreme gymnastics in finding people who are very mad about being democrats because some parts of the left may be okay with assigning a 15 year sentence where we could have instead given someone life or death
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Apr 23, 2023 07:49
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pmchem posted:https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1649246577205350400?s=20 F-16s are much cheaper, like $10mil cheaper. I think the chances are, if/when the USA eventually gives them jets, it'd be much more likely to be F-16s than F-15s, for that reason if nothing else.
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Apr 23, 2023 08:25
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Can someone give me a tier ranking of fighter jets, I'm aware F22 is roughly equal to god, but below that I'm uncertain
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Apr 23, 2023 08:27
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Can someone give me a tier ranking of fighter jets, I'm aware F22 is roughly equal to god, but below that I'm uncertain S tier: F-35 A tier: F-22, F/A-18 B tier: F-15EX, F-16 C tier: A-10 Warthog 
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Apr 23, 2023 08:37
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Can someone give me a tier ranking of fighter jets, I'm aware F22 is roughly equal to god, but below that I'm uncertain There's not really a significant difference in 'combat power' between the models within a generation if they have all been kept up-to-date with refits, afaik. Availability will probably be the primary factor in what Ukraine gets. F-22 and F-35 are 5th-gen fighters, which emphasizes stealth and integrated battlefield awareness to a degree not previously seen. Ukraine is not going to get these. F-16 is a 4th-gen multirole fighter excelling particularly at being relatively cheap and having been mass-produced so much that there's a gently caress-ton of them in existence now. As a bonus, a lot of NATO airforces that are currently upgrading to F-35s will soon be looking to get rid of their F-16s anyway, which is what makes it the most obvious candidate for Ukraine. F-15s and F-18s are 4th gen too, but somewhat more expensive and not as a numerous as the F-16, so sourcing some for Ukraine along with the necessary spare parts for maintenance might be harder.
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Apr 23, 2023 08:39
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The F-35 is better than the F-16, and are good for multirole operations The F-22 is better than the F-15, and both are specialized in air combat. A-10s and F-14s suck. The F-18 is over there in the navy corner doing it's own thing.
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Apr 23, 2023 08:45
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The other problem with criminal deterrence is that your attempt to create an objective risk-reward framework that dissuades people from crime is colliding with the reality that criminals are the kind of idiot who will do something extremely criminal for minecraft discord server clout.
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Apr 23, 2023 09:21
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HonorableTB posted:S tier: F-35 The Superhornet upgrade to the F/A-18, sure. As far as I know the original is basically the same tier as the F-16 and friends. Though I think avionics were nicer than the F-16 even then. The F-16 is fine. It's not cutting edge any more, but it still gets the job done and it's relatively cheap. And it's gorgeous, which is obviously very important.
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Apr 23, 2023 09:24
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Ignoring mission type: F22 > F35 > F/A18, Euro planes > F16, F15, Korea planes > Russia Planes (either outdated or don't exist). China planes are probably somewhere around Russia, but it's hard to know. While they're rapidly advancing, it's impossible to know true capabilities. They're probably being held back by engine tech more than anything. Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 10:01
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Pablo Bluth posted:Ignoring mission type: F-35 has more advanced weaponry and sensors than the F22, as well as the ability to basically see as one big jet across your entire group of F35's, and it doesn't even have to be F35s from the same country. Its data link capability among allied F35s makes it better than the F22 straight up. F22 would win the dogfight, but the F35 would kill the 22 before you got to the merge.
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Apr 23, 2023 10:58
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However its true they-won't-tell-us capacities stack up, I perhaps should have it put it last because nobody other than the US is really in a position to have a luxury air superiority only fighter and it's so expensive even the US lost interest.
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Apr 23, 2023 11:43
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M_Gargantua posted:A-10s and F-14s suck. I think you're missing an extremely important point which is that the F-14 looks super rad and thus I believe it belongs at the top of the chart.
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Apr 23, 2023 11:45
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If we’re going by looks, bring back the F-4 Phantom.
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Apr 23, 2023 12:10
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@ me when we have VF-25's
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Apr 23, 2023 12:19
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Slashrat posted:There's not really a significant difference in 'combat power' between the models within a generation if they have all been kept up-to-date with refits, afaik. Availability will probably be the primary factor in what Ukraine gets. This, as noted, the actual discriminator is that there have been 4600+ F16s built and are operated by approximately everyone and will perform from pretty well to exceptionally well in all the roles needed by Ukraine. So, some can be spared without any real impact and parts and training on maintenance is readily available. The F15E would probably be overall better but there have been only 400 of those made and sending even a few dozen is going to impact other things.
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Apr 23, 2023 13:56
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Not to mention, there are several state air guard wings in the process of replacing their 16s with 35s. Surplus them for a dollar.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:04
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Wingnut Ninja posted:Certain treason enthusiast congressmembers already are doing this. The wild thing is that they don’t even have a reason to want this guy to go free other than, “he’s white and Christian and it’s embarrassing to Biden”. They actively take positions in opposition to the national interest and call themselves “patriots” and their constituents seem to think that’s appropriate. Anyway, in other rumor news the scuttlebutt is that Teixeira was able to get access to all those docs because he was acting as a document courier. He’d be handed the locked bag and the key and then just drive home, open the bag and take pictures. I assume these docs are all collateral (I haven’t seen them and won’t go looking) because I thought that SAR docs require a 2 person carry for precisely this reason? Murgos fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 14:06
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Most of what's been referenced in the news media has been briefing slides, so you're probably right.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:21
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orange juche posted:F-35 has more advanced weaponry and sensors than the F22, as well as the ability to basically see as one big jet across your entire group of F35's, and it doesn't even have to be F35s from the same country. Its data link capability among allied F35s makes it better than the F22 straight up. Is this because the F22s stealth doesn’t hold up to the F35s radar capabilities? Or are you assuming integration with other high powered/low frequency radar sources? And if F35s can detect the F22s well enough to take them down at range, what prevents anyone else from using the same methods?
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Apr 23, 2023 14:39
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Is this because the F22s stealth doesn’t hold up to the F35s radar capabilities? Or are you assuming integration with other high powered/low frequency radar sources? And if F35s can detect the F22s well enough to take them down at range, what prevents anyone else from using the same methods? Stealth fighter does not equal invisible fighter, this was Trump's mistake. The fact that the F35 can pass targeting and sensor data back and forth between aircraft seamlessly allows you to do something akin to what fire directors on battleships used to, use far apart view points to determine that the thing you're looking at is in fact a plane and not a bird, and give you a better idea of it's bearing, range, and speed. Remember we're talking way BVR fighting, look down/shoot down stuff and not top gun maverick poo poo, so you can figure out a stealth fighter is out there, your targeting systems can pass that info to your missiles and you can engage the target even though it's low observable (Caveat: I'm not actually sure if the F35 *can* use sensor data this way at this time, but it is definitely within the realm of possibilities for a distributed sensor/data setup like it has. If it can, nobody's going to say it can until 2095 or whatever) In a 1v1 dogfight though in visual range both planes would have a hard time shooting each other down, but the f22 is more powerful and agile than the 35, so better than even odds of it winning if it can close. This isn't exactly germane to Ukraine poo poo though so maybe should be in the airpower thread. orange juche fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Apr 23, 2023 |
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Apr 23, 2023 14:46
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If you think of fighter jets in a wins-above-replacement state of mind, they're really, really suboptimal for Ukraine. GBAD is cheaper, and the cost for a third party to sustain future Ukrainian 4th-gen jets for Ukraine's jets is huge compared to paying sustainment costs for entire armored units and building up additional artillery round production, to be donated for free. I guess a European country could just ship old F-16s to Ukraine and say "figure it out," without providing a maintenance and logistics pipeline but that seems pretty pointless. But in a gamble between which is better, spending $300 million getting a fighter squadron off the ground vs spending that money investing in expanded artillery or SAM production capacity to Ukraine, I bet the latter is a more operationally and strategically relevant payoff.
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Apr 23, 2023 14:57
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GBAD is a far better investment for Ukraine than hooking them up with a fighter squadron. In a perfect world you'd do both so you can do intercepts of things that slide between your batteries of GBAD, but ground based defenses are far more bang for the buck and much easier to train than a Western fighter.
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