[Dune Thread] Gundam Idaho

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Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

Tree Bucket posted:

Behold, Greg. I am the God Emperor.
I mean, Geoff.
Millennia in the future- long even after my own death- the galaxy is a place of peace and justice for all.
But this can only happen if you, Gary, tread the path set before you. I mean Geoff.
It is a hard and lonely path, that culminates in death and humiliation. But it is necessary for the salvation of the galaxy and the future of humanity.
I know I can count on you, Garth.

Important question: does the God Emperor Leto Atreides II, Padishah Emperor of the Known Universe and omnipotent superbeing, count as a worm for the purposes of the "worms ridden" score?

If so: attempt to ride the God Emperor Leto Atreides II, Padishah Emperor of the Known Universe and omnipotent superbeing.

Though, uh, you should probably save first.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 04:05

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# ? May 29, 2024 21:25

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

Different post for a different thought.

The MilHist thread brought up the old idea of "hard times make hard men", and it made me think about the interesting way that Dune really plays it both ways. On the one hand, in support of that thesis, you have the Sardaukar and the Fremen, who become fearsome warriors due to, essentially, the selection process and minimum requirements caused by surviving in such harsh conditions. But you also have Paul show up and all the Fremen are like "heh, easy waterfat pushover" and get their poo poo kicked in because it turns out that the best training the universe can buy _{and millennia of eugenics} can also make good fighters.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 04:46

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

Disguise yourself as Hwi for advantage

# ? Apr 23, 2023 04:47

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

Yeah being trained by pretty much the best swordsman in the universe and taught illegal BG techniques is definitely not an unfair advantage

# ? Apr 23, 2023 04:48

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

Not to mention the height of genes mixed with secret mentat training to go along with the prana bindu

# ? Apr 23, 2023 05:11

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

I remember that whole essay. While the point is sound, it definitely misses a few things about Dune specifically; the Saudarkar are, whatever else they are, basically a military-industrial complex with career soldiers with the best training and equipment the Emperor can get- and a big reason why the Atreides were considered a threat is because their combination of good training, experience and actual loyalty to a ruling house that's generally nice to them makes them a potential match. While the Fremen mostly have a huge home turf advantage, and after the first book, the backing of the Empire's best materiel as they go on holy war. The Harkonnen troops in contrast seem to have nice gear but poor training and morale, since their commanders really don't give a poo poo and openly treat them as expendable.

Of course, it very much works as a counterpoint to the kinda stereotypical Spartan poo poo that didn't really work for the Spartans, and even the Romans who idolised them actually just had a military-industrial complex of the day with professionally trained and properly equipped career soldiers and doctrine that was flexible enough to operate in different environments and use different tactics when appropriate. Heh, even Warhammer 40k recently had ol' Roboute Gulliman call out other Space Marines for keeping planets in horrific conditions as recruiting grounds, when the Ultramarines are basically Space Romans who get the same results from recruiting volunteers from their prosperous mini-empire with the bonuses of actually being a net positive logistically rather than taking active effort to keep the people alive.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 05:50

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

As I've shitposted time and time again, fremen of dune are not a people to venerate. They're space orcs hth

# ? Apr 23, 2023 05:59

Tree Bucket: Apr 1, 2016; R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Colonel Cancer posted:

Declare yourself to be a fremen on the sand

Wingnut Ninja posted:

attempt to ride the God Emperor Leto Atreides II, Padishah Emperor of the Known Universe and omnipotent superbeing.

YoursTruly posted:

>Walk rhythmically.

Your rhythmic steps drive the God-Emperor into a frenzy. His worm instincts take over.
With Spice and scorpion toxins supercharging your nerve fibers, your astral self is able to mount & ride the Deity Worm.

...you wake up.
Your innate Fremen temporal sense abilities, keyed to your metabolic signature and instinctual observations of astronomical phenomena, suggest that only ten minutes have passed.
Your CASIO wrist-watch confirms it.
If you concentrate, you can still hear the God-Worm's words ringing in your mind:
I believe in you, Gavin. Also the guys are lying to you, that powdery stuff on your suit-tubes isn't "concentrated spice essence" and you really should stop sprinkling it on your coffee. I can't stress that enough.
Your journeys in the astral realm have increased your DESERT WISDOM score and boosted your HONOR rating.
The damage to your body has also liberated much of the Spice your metabolism has been hoarding over the years: your SPICE levels are higher and your WATER levels are dangerously low.
Your tongue has a large hole in it.

Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Apr 23, 2023

# ? Apr 23, 2023 06:47

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Attempt to create joinder with the nearest sandtrout.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 07:23

BeanpolePeckerwood: May 4, 2004; I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK

Colonel Cancer posted:

As I've shitposted time and time again, fremen of dune are not a people to venerate. They're space orcs hth

orcs own and you should bow down to them

# ? Apr 23, 2023 08:13

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I remember that whole essay. While the point is sound, it definitely misses a few things about Dune specifically; the Saudarkar are, whatever else they are, basically a military-industrial complex with career soldiers with the best training and equipment the Emperor can get- and a big reason why the Atreides were considered a threat is because their combination of good training, experience and actual loyalty to a ruling house that's generally nice to them makes them a potential match.

That�s not what the term military industrial complex means. Also it�s a prison planet. These are the most fearsome fighters because they�re basically being tortured in a controlled fashion every day.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 14:10

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

The soldiers aren't, they live in luxury.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 20:40

Mister Speaker: May 8, 2007; WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR

sebmojo posted:

The soldiers aren't, they live in luxury.

What? Where is this in the lore? By all accounts I've read Salusa Secundus is a brutal prison planet with a harsh environment and the selection process for Sardaukar fighters is merciless and often fatal. They're 'space Spartans', if you want to go that way.

Which I thought was the whole conceit about bringing them in: They're a parallel to the Fremen, who also live by a brutally pragmatic code because their survival depends on it.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 21:30

Jewmanji: Dec 28, 2003

I watched The Tragedy of Macbeth last night, which, if you haven't seen it, is god-tier good (spoken as a sometimes-Coen cynic). Anyway, I've never read Macbeth before but the titular character referring to the "weird witch" really stuck in my ear (i.e. the BG and their weirding ways), so I went looking for whether this was one of those Shakespeare-isms. It does seem like one of the earliest instances of "weird" being associated with witches. But the term actually goes back to Herodotus, when it was spelled "wyrd", and specifically referred to prophecy/fate/prescience, which I thought was very cool. I had never associated the classic notion of a witch with those concepts.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 21:36

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Mister Speaker posted:

What? Where is this in the lore? By all accounts I've read Salusa Secundus is a brutal prison planet with a harsh environment and the selection process for Sardaukar fighters is merciless and often fatal. They're 'space Spartans', if you want to go that way.

Which I thought was the whole conceit about bringing them in: They're a parallel to the Fremen, who also live by a brutally pragmatic code because their survival depends on it.

It's described in dune, sorry don't have it handy to look up. It's where thufir is captured by the baron I think.

Ss (!) is harsh, but the warriors who make it into the army are treated like kings is the idea I believe

# ? Apr 23, 2023 21:48

disposablewords: Sep 12, 2021

I got an ebook copy just to be able to Ctrl-F through it, and yup, the Sardaukar are treated like high nobility at home. Chapter 39, when Thufir tries to convince the Baron that the Fremen are the most terrifying military force around and not a bunch of idiot desert peasants, and that the Emperor might be thinking that Harkonnen is looking to reproduce the Sardaukar on Arrakis. Which he wasn't planning but does entertain briefly when Thufir raises the notion to him.

quote:

Presently he said: "How could you be sure of the loyalty of such recruits?"

"I would take them in small groups, not larger than platoon strength," Hawat said. "I'd remove them from their oppressive situation and isolate them with a training cadre of people who understood their background, preferably people who had preceded them from the same oppressive situation. Then I'd fill them with the mystique that their planet had really been a secret training ground to produce just such superior beings as themselves. And all the while, I'd show them what such superior beings could earn: rich living, beautiful women, fine mansions... whatever they desired."

The Baron began to nod. "The way the Sardaukar live at home."

"The recruits come to believe in time that such a place as Salusa Secundus is justified because it produced them - the elite. The commonest Sardaukar trooper lives a life, in many respects, as exalted as that of any member of a Great House."

# ? Apr 23, 2023 22:20

Mister Speaker: May 8, 2007; WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR

Ah drat, I stand corrected.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 22:42

the heebie-gbs: Apr 23, 2007; _{♫ twerrrmmmmm ♫}
/

Mister Speaker posted:

Ah drat, I stand corrected.

chapter and verse, too. that's a noble correction, there is great honor in it.

fremen/klingon overlap is pretty wild if you boil it down to speech patterns

# ? Apr 24, 2023 08:00

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

The Fremen even have their own 'One day, all our hardship will pay off' legend to motivate them too.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 08:32

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

The Zensunni Wanderers originated on Portrin and lived there until about 4500 AG, then got persecuted all across the galaxy from Salusa Secundus over Bela Tegeuse, Rossak, Harmonthep, and Ishia over thousands of years, finding environments that were ever more harsh to live in, until arriving at Arrakis in 7200 AG.

All of this can be found in either the first book proper or Terminology of the Imperium at the end of it.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 14:02

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Worth noting that all that stuff in the original book is paid off in Messiah, where you actually get to see the Duke�s plan followed through and the Fedaykin become the Sardaukar 2.0, living lives of unreal wealth and luxury in the big city as they oversee the export of theocratic rape genocide to the rest of the known universe. Except for the vets like Otheym who can�t hack it anymore and get left to rot by the uncaring bureaucracy.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 14:09

YoursTruly: Jul 29, 2012; Put me in the ~~trash~~
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.

Tree Bucket posted:

# ? Apr 24, 2023 14:46

uber_stoat: Jan 21, 2001; Pillbug

hmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnkyONCg01E&t=222s

# ? Apr 24, 2023 19:26

BeanpolePeckerwood: May 4, 2004; I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK

# ? Apr 24, 2023 19:44

kalel: Jun 19, 2012

BeanpolePeckerwood posted:

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:15

kalel: Jun 19, 2012

I feel like rereleasing part 1 leading up to or alongside part 2 is a no-brainer. would love to spend a day watching the whole bloody affair in glorious imax

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:16

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

I've had a prescient vision of Dune 2...

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:22

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

uber_stoat posted:

hmmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnkyONCg01E&t=222s

jesus christ why does he talk like that?

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:22

BeanpolePeckerwood: May 4, 2004; I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK

TK-42-1 posted:

jesus christ why does he talk like that?

many such spices

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:27

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

That concept art page rules, I spent some time just going thru all the different pages via the arrows..

I guess there was never any explanation why there were the dudes being bled upsidedown at the sardaukar ritual, was that just the washouts?

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:39

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

kalel posted:

I feel like rereleasing part 1 leading up to or alongside part 2 is a no-brainer. would love to spend a day watching the whole bloody affair in glorious imax

I can't foresee a cinema not booking DUNC just before premiering DUNC II: Battle For Arrakis.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:42

uber_stoat: Jan 21, 2001; Pillbug

priznat posted:

That concept art page rules, I spent some time just going thru all the different pages via the arrows..

I guess there was never any explanation why there were the dudes being bled upsidedown at the sardaukar ritual, was that just the washouts?

i assumed it was the guys who didn't "graduate" yeah, but it could just be POWs whose blood is being put to ceremonial use.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:45

Zopotantor: Feb 24, 2013; ...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

priznat posted:

That concept art page rules, I spent some time just going thru all the different pages via the arrows..

I guess there was never any explanation why there were the dudes being bled upsidedown at the sardaukar ritual, was that just the washouts?

Didn�t close all the fasteners on their fighting suits for roll call.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:46

Mister Speaker: May 8, 2007; WE WILL CONTROL
ALL THAT YOU SEE
AND HEAR

priznat posted:

I guess there was never any explanation why there were the dudes being bled upsidedown at the sardaukar ritual, was that just the washouts?

It's definitely not made clear in the film but yeah I think that's a safe assumption. Obviously the scene is there to set up the Sardaukar as relentless devout warriors but I think there's some specific subtext and metaphor Denis fit in there, particularly in the fact that it's pouring rain during their blood annointment ritual.

... And the fact that the throat-singing mantra begins with the same "Dreams are messages from the deep" line that opens the film.

# ? Apr 24, 2023 20:48