Hitman Megathread: I didn't realize frog was an option

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Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Scott Forstall posted:

I planted a gun for the bodyguard to find. What does the bodyguard eat/drink to get poisoned.

A syringe in his dumb back

Also weirdly despite being dressed as a bodyguard you cannot steal his clothes, which sometimes happens with generic suited guards in other ET maps but this guy is just dressed like all the other Cicada guys :shrug:

# ? Apr 20, 2023 07:08

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 13:44

Meowywitch: Jan 14, 2010; Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

I have no idea how to find illusive targets with no spider sense

My brain isn't very good at putting information together, so I waste like 2 or 3 hours trying to figure it out

# ? Apr 20, 2023 07:15

Theotus: Nov 8, 2014

Is there a particular range for syringing people in the back or is it automatically detected by NPCs that aren't distracted? Like, you drop the gun specifically to get the dude into a new routine where he ignores certain actions. Like, do NPCs generally perceive that poo poo happening behind them?

# ? Apr 20, 2023 07:16

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

What�s with that one gaucho in Mendoza you can�t steal the clothes from? He hangs out chatting with a bodyguard by the Supplier.

# ? Apr 20, 2023 07:17

Lima: Jun 17, 2012

The_Doctor posted:

What�s with that one gaucho in Mendoza you can�t steal the clothes from? He hangs out chatting with a bodyguard by the Supplier.

His polyester uniform (that he never talked to his boss about) is shrinkwrapped to never come off.

# ? Apr 20, 2023 13:51

Hedgehog Pie: May 19, 2012; Total fuckin' silence.

Meowywitch posted:

I have no idea how to find illusive targets with no spider sense

My brain isn't very good at putting information together, so I waste like 2 or 3 hours trying to figure it out

I sympathise completely, as someone new to ETs.

I look them up if I fail to find them after 5-10 minutes, lol.

# ? Apr 20, 2023 16:45

DeathChicken: Jul 9, 2012; Nonsense. I have not yet begun to defile myself.

Run around aimlessly until Diana goes "THAT is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmitt"

# ? Apr 20, 2023 17:11

Mierenneuker: Apr 28, 2010; We're all going to experience changes in our life but only the best of us will qualify for front row seats.

Clearly the trick to finding ETs is to play the game for hundreds of hours so that each addition or change instantly stands out from a mile away :shepface:

# ? Apr 20, 2023 17:29

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

It does help if you really know the map like the back of your hand because usually you can get some clues to their location from their intro video if you're able to recognize specific rooms/areas of the map.

# ? Apr 20, 2023 17:40

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

DeathChicken posted:

Run around aimlessly until Diana goes "THAT is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmitt"

This is good advice until you run into that one terrible Bangkok ET that includes it's own mobile hostile zone

Of course the presence of a warlord surrounded by a group of bodyguards in the restaurant should at least be a little obvious

# ? Apr 20, 2023 18:29

Hedgehog Pie: May 19, 2012; Total fuckin' silence.

Wolfsheim posted:

This is good advice until you run into that one terrible Bangkok ET that includes it's own mobile hostile zone

Of course the presence of a warlord surrounded by a group of bodyguards in the restaurant should at least be a little obvious

I got this one on my own!

But then I also didn't know where the Faberge egg was in that one Paris ET. I assumed it was in the museum or the museum director's office.

# ? Apr 20, 2023 19:14

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Mierenneuker posted:

Clearly the trick to finding ETs is to play the game for hundreds of hours so that each addition or change instantly stands out from a mile away

"LOOK DANIEL, SHE'S NICE!"

Wait a second... that's not who she usually tells Daniel is nice! :blastu:

# ? Apr 21, 2023 09:21

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

i'm getting sloppy

the censor 1:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkFGG6h44tk

# ? Apr 21, 2023 09:44

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Haha I was waiting for the clever thing and then just shot him in the head and walked away :allears:

Love that it's quick enough that as you leave you get to hear the tail end of the conversation that was starting as you walked in.

# ? Apr 21, 2023 14:39

Lima: Jun 17, 2012

I siekered him to the top floor bathroom where I had left a breaching charge in the bowl.

Paddled away on a raft like a superhuman international assassin would :v:

# ? Apr 21, 2023 15:08

Devo: Jul 9, 2001; Caught Cubs Posting

Is there ever any way to get him by himself? The thing I hate about ETs is that the stipulations prevent you from really playing around with what they've added to the map. I've played this one a few times in Arcade as well as the year 2 ET and he seems to just walk around the party.

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:29

Regrettable: Jan 5, 2010

Devo posted:

Is there ever any way to get him by himself? The thing I hate about ETs is that the stipulations prevent you from really playing around with what they've added to the map. I've played this one a few times in Arcade as well as the year 2 ET and he seems to just walk around the party.

Fart briefcase. If you run straight to the house as soon as you load in at the park you can get to him right as he's walking in the back door alone. You shouldn't get spotted drowning him but if you're worried about it or just want a slightly better time you can lethal syringe him while he's puking. Should be able to get it done in about 1:20 this way.

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:33

Your Uncle Dracula: Apr 16, 2023

Run immediately to the house party, entering through the open garage. Sieker the guy in the muffin seller outfit in the kitchen, then Sieker / fart briefcase / emetic grenade the serial killer. First will use the busy downstairs bathroom, and the ET will go upstairs where you can easily drown him. Suit only no problem.

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:41

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

I know that if you help serve the food you can have a discussion with him where he talks about 'grading' you in private but if there's a way to actually follow that up I don't know.

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:48

Devo: Jul 9, 2001; Caught Cubs Posting

Regrettable posted:

Fart briefcase. If you run straight to the house as soon as you load in at the park you can get to him right as he's walking in the back door alone. You shouldn't get spotted drowning him but if you're worried about it or just want a slightly better time you can lethal syringe him while he's puking. Should be able to get it done in about 1:20 this way.

Yeah but I meant like legitimately. He'll talk to you but I've never gotten him to follow up with a trip to the basement or anything.

# ? Apr 22, 2023 00:50

Strategic Tea: Sep 1, 2012

Discendo Vox posted:

...I'm further confused now, as the WAR CRIME seems to have, by other descriptions, actually been bombing a civilian domestic protest, which wouldn't be a WAR CRIME.

Good afternoon 47. Your next target is on behalf of a United Nations prosecutor who was humiliated after a recent technical blunder and is, to use an insider's term, extremely mad.

Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Apr 22, 2023

# ? Apr 22, 2023 01:23

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

I finally got around to unlocking the white shadow outfit and of course I had to do a SASO Hokkaido run with it. This part was definitely the most "what the gently caress do I do now?" part, but goddamn did I feel like a genius badass when I came up with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z26MkKgaQBM

I'm sure I'm not anywhere near the first person to come up with this but I still feel like :smug:

incarnate right now.

Edit: I checked the other starts and the restaurant is a bit tight on timing but I would say it's easier than the default start. The spa is hilarious but literally impossible since the "blend in" point doesn't work.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Apr 22, 2023

# ? Apr 22, 2023 02:25

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

One thing I didn't notice until this round of the Serial Killer ET is that in addition to a bunch of NPC conversations about him they also add another NPC who is an undercover cop attempting to hunt him down also...except they hadn't actually coded stuff like the covert assassins in Freelancer so if you leave a briefcase or weapon somewhere the other NPCs will bring it to him like they would any security guard :v:

# ? Apr 22, 2023 22:55

Meowywitch: Jan 14, 2010; Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

The serial killer? aw man I've already killed that guy

# ? Apr 22, 2023 22:59

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

a quick visit to dartmoor to murder the help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDNqleee6I

KillHour posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z26MkKgaQBM

that's a great exit. i'm surprised they run around in alert when they don't find an unconscious person.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 01:49

Rochallor: Apr 23, 2010; ふっっっっっっっっっっっっｃｋ

Ghostlight posted:

a quick visit to dartmoor to murder the help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDNqleee6I

Enjoyed the editing on this very much, there's something very funny about seeing the ol' "lure a person into a body box then lure another person into a body box" condensed down into about 20 seconds.

Ghostlight posted:

that's a great exit. i'm surprised they run around in alert when they don't find an unconscious person.

I know it's a video game, but it is very silly that guards react with guns drawn to what basically appears to be a person fainting, meanwhile you can fire an unsilenced pistol into the legs of someone standing in water, causing them to fall and drown, in what is obviously a terrible accident.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 02:35

Funky Valentine: Feb 26, 2014; Dojyaa~an

Rochallor posted:

I know it's a video game, but it is very silly that guards react with guns drawn to what basically appears to be a person fainting, meanwhile you can fire an unsilenced pistol into the legs of someone standing in water, causing them to fall and drown, in what is obviously a terrible accident.

CORONER: It appears this person died of a rare and incredibly deadly poison only found in a single frog species deep in the amazon. Must've been an accident.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 02:51

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

Ghostlight posted:

a quick visit to dartmoor to murder the help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDNqleee6I

Wait, you can get guns in the crates in Freelancer? I don't think I've ever seen that :stare:

# ? Apr 23, 2023 06:44

Lollerich: Mar 25, 2004; The little doctors are back,
they want to play with you!

My graphics card shat itself shortly before Freelance mode came out. I'm now all set with a new vastly more powerful card so I've started playing it a bit.

ELI5: why the goddman motherfuck do I lose my "tools" when I fail a campaign? I'm not talking about the poo poo I took into the map. I'm talking about the tools I left at home. What the actual loving poo poo were these idiots thinking when they agreed that this was a good idea?

Also, if I lose the new ornamental guns that you get from achieving a certain level, are they just permanently gone? If so, why would anyone ever take those into a map? Unless you are very confident that you will finish the map successfully, of course.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 22:30

404notfound: Mar 5, 2006; stop staring at me

Lollerich posted:

My graphics card shat itself shortly before Freelance mode came out. I'm now all set with a new vastly more powerful card so I've started playing it a bit.

ELI5: why the goddman motherfuck do I lose my "tools" when I fail a campaign? I'm not talking about the poo poo I took into the map. I'm talking about the tools I left at home. What the actual loving poo poo were these idiots thinking when they agreed that this was a good idea?

Also, if I lose the new ornamental guns that you get from achieving a certain level, are they just permanently gone? If so, why would anyone ever take those into a map? Unless you are very confident that you will finish the map successfully, of course.

Stuff in the three cases on the table and on your person gets lost, stuff up on the wall doesn't. That's why the collector's editions of certain items go on the wall instead, though of course you'll still lose them if you take them and bungle a mission. With stuff like the ornamental weapons, you lose them but I believe they get added to the loot pool, so you'll eventually be able to get them again.

Note that any loot sources (merchant, end of mission, end of campaign) will not show duplicates of what you already have, so it's still worth buying those $500 items that you're never going to use so that the better stuff starts to show up

# ? Apr 23, 2023 22:36

Lollerich: Mar 25, 2004; The little doctors are back,
they want to play with you!

404notfound posted:

Stuff in the three cases on the table and on your person gets lost, stuff up on the wall doesn't. That's why the collector's editions of certain items go on the wall instead, though of course you'll still lose them if you take them and bungle a mission. With stuff like the ornamental weapons, you lose them but I believe they get added to the loot pool, so you'll eventually be able to get them again.

Note that any loot sources (merchant, end of mission, end of campaign) will not show duplicates of what you already have, so it's still worth buying those $500 items that you're never going to use so that the better stuff starts to show up

OK, thanks that's very helpful. By loot pool you mean those loot crates? I usually only see "tools" in there but that video two or three posts up showed a gun in a loot crate. So that means if you somehow lose an ornamental weapon you can find it again in one of the crates?

~~Also, you said "on your person" that is definitely not true though. I lost all the tools in those three cases when I failed a campaign, even the ones I was not carrying.~~ = Nevermind that, my reading comprehension is bad, it's late where I am.

Thanks for the help.

Edit: I still don't understand why the developers thought his was a good idea, though. I can only assume that they are hosed in the head, and enjoy offending their players.

Lollerich fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 23, 2023

# ? Apr 23, 2023 22:40

404notfound: Mar 5, 2006; stop staring at me

The in-mission crates may very occasionally have actual good stuff, but generally any worthwhile tools are going to come from the merchants and the loot box in the safehouse between missions. Guns will be from the merchants or a single good gun at the end of every syndicate (i.e., set of missions).

However, many guns also have predetermined locations in various maps (e.g., the DAK DTI in Dubai), so if you're really trying to maximize how quickly you re-gear, you can look up where each gun can be found

# ? Apr 23, 2023 22:56

Lollerich: Mar 25, 2004; The little doctors are back,
they want to play with you!

I'm mostly concerned with the tools. I really like using poisons and sedatives and the occasional explosive. I don't particularly care too much about collecting all the guns as soon as possible. I was merely wondering about reacquiring the new unique ones.

Of course I'm a completionist with more than 2K hours sunk into this game, so I will want to get every item eventually.

I guess I'll have to obsessively buy all the tools all the time to remain stocked up on the stuff that I actually need.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 23:18

Blowjob Overtime: Apr 6, 2008; Steeeeriiiiiiiiike twooooooo!

Lollerich posted:

I'm mostly concerned with the tools. I really like using poisons and sedatives and the occasional explosive. I don't particularly care too much about collecting all the guns as soon as possible. I was merely wondering about reacquiring the new unique ones.

Of course I'm a completionist with more than 2K hours sunk into this game, so I will want to get every item eventually.

I guess I'll have to obsessively buy all the tools all the time to remain stocked up on the stuff that I actually need.

I 100% agree, it's my biggest gripe with Freelancer. It's kind of silly to complain about suspension of disbelief in this game, but they could have found a better way to communicate it.

"When you failed that mission you lost everything you took with, and for some reason the stuff in those three cases on the desk back at your hideout. Everything else from your hideout is fine, though."
:dafuq:

# ? Apr 23, 2023 23:43

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

As you level up your house you'll also get access to free tools from there, like you can fish off the wharf to get fish you can cut up to get a sedative vial, and find an emetic flower you can also distil into a lethal poison and workstation that lets you put any of them into a syringe.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 23:51

KillHour: Oct 28, 2007

I felt the same way at first, but it's better this way. The mode is balanced around you losing your stuff and the point is to be able to improvise without always having magic vomit darts. You will unlock an always available emetic mushroom in your safehouse that you can turn into lethal poison and then the ability to turn edible poisons into syringes, so you will always have at least one of your choice of lethal or emetic poison.

It's supposed to force you to shake up your playstyle, which it's pretty successful at.

# ? Apr 23, 2023 23:52

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

i'm completely on board with the people theorizing that failing a campaign makes diana very angry, so she comes into your house while you're convalescing and takes your toys, to teach you a lesson

# ? Apr 24, 2023 00:49

Lollerich: Mar 25, 2004; The little doctors are back,
they want to play with you!

KillHour posted:

I felt the same way at first, but it's better this way. The mode is balanced around you losing your stuff and the point is to be able to improvise without always having magic vomit darts. You will unlock an always available emetic mushroom in your safehouse that you can turn into lethal poison and then the ability to turn edible poisons into syringes, so you will always have at least one of your choice of lethal or emetic poison.

It's supposed to force you to shake up your playstyle, which it's pretty successful at.

I just don't understand why I would lose stuff I didn't take into the level. Why? What is the reasoning behind this?

Go on, spin me a tale that explains it in a way that makes me go: "Aha, yes ok, that makes sense - the stuff I didn't have on me disappeared although I didn't have it on me when I failed the mission, because someone went to my house and took it away, and they didn't take anything else. Because of course."

# ? Apr 24, 2023 00:57

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Lollerich posted:

I just don't understand why I would lose stuff I didn't take into the level. Why? What is the reasoning behind this?

For the same reason 47 can't use the bathroom until he's killed dozens of people

# ? Apr 24, 2023 01:35

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 13:44

Rythian: Dec 31, 2007; You take what comes, and the rest is void.

It's just a gameplay mechanic. It doesn't make sense and isn't realistic, but tons of things in the game aren't. Anyway here's their reasoning, agree or disagree as much as you want.

https://ioi.dk/hitman/blogs/2023/freelancer-difficulty-and-the-persistency-rules-of-freelancer-tools posted:

But another key part of the frustration seems to revolve specifically around losing Freelancer Tools, when failing a campaign. In the following we�ll address this issue and go a bit more in depth around the thoughts behind this part of the design.

Frustration1: Inconsistency and lack of communication
HITMAN is a quite complex and difficult game in itself and the rules of HITMAN: Freelancer are adding to this complexity level. For many players the specific rules for Freelancer Tools seems unintuitive.
Losing gear when you die on a level is a stable of Rogue-likes. It seems fair and it�s intuitive because it makes sense on a fantasy-level.
The rules for Freelancer Tools can come across as breaking this �contract� established between the game and the players. Adding to that it can be difficult to distinguish between Freelancer Tools and the other items.
We have decided to address the latter by introducing a label that can be seen in the inventory wheel menu or when inspecting a Freelancer Tool, so that the information about what category an item belongs to is always available.
For the complexity itself we have tried to make elegant and clear rules as much as we can. But we have also chosen to accept that the game mode requires a bit of extra commitment from the players to understand the rules, rather than removing depth by simplifying the game mode too much.

Frustration 2: The breaking of immersion
A problem with losing the Freelancer Tools on campaign fail, is that it can easily come across as immersion breaking. The safehouse should be an impeachable location � it�s in the name! � so who removes those items? It can easily either feel like burglary or come across as very �gamy.� In both cases it undermines the fantasy of the safehouse � which is bad.
We thought long and hard about if we could make a believable narrative reason for losing Freelancer Tools but without success. An idea could have been to never store the Freelancer Tools in the safehouse, but instead have them be available as a loadout crate at the starting locations on missions. This would probably have alleviated the breaking of immersion a lot. But the trade-off would be that the strategic gameplay of planning would be impacted negatively. By making all Freelancer Tools available on location, players would miss out on the interesting decisions in the safehouse of which Freelancer Tools to bring, that will be optimal for a given location, set of payout and prestige objectives and mission type, thus making the experience much more handheld. Here we decided to not compromise the planning gameplay and instead accept the breaking of immersion.

Frustration 3: The frustration of losing gear that has been earned
In HITMAN: Freelancer we simply believe that gear in the Freelancer Tools category is closely related to the freedom and choice you have on a mission. A lockpick will to a large extend determine what areas you can access (even though there�s other ways to open a locked door), access to poison, explosives etc. will heavily influence which payout and prestige objectives it is possible to carry out and so on.
Therefore, it feels very punishing to lose these opportunities and this agency, upon failing a Campaign (or aborted by the player). We realize and respect that!
We have still chosen to stick to the hardcore rule for Freelancer Tools because we believe it is the best choice for the game mode. This last part is a deep dive into our reasons for this decision.
HITMAN: Freelancer has a number of different progression systems at play that are important to line out to show how the rules for Freelancer Tools fit this ecosystem.

Mastery: The slow and linear power-growth:
There�s the long-term persistent growth of the mastery levels. This is a linear progression that largely impacts the safehouse and the availability of cosmetics (Except for gear capacity increases and some money rewards). It is driven by earning XP, which a player can do independent of the success of a mission or campaign. Unlike money and gear, the player gets to keep XP earned, even when dying on a mission. So, this growth is steady and available for players at all skill levels. It is motivated by offering roleplaying opportunities and to stimulate collectors and completionists.

Gear: The steady, occasionally bumpy ride:
Then we have the gear persistency system. Gear availability will impact player agency on a mission. Having access to silenced weapons, for instance, means a big difference for what a player can pull of on a mission and to how various challenges can be approached. That being said the different firearms within a subcategory isn�t a hugely differentiating factor for gameplay approaches, in the way the firearms are designed.
We have added a layer on top of this in the game mode, by making the rarity of a weapon have associated prestige objectives, which makes it important what specific weapon the players bring and adds an incentive to risk a rare and valuable piece of gear.
Even with this, the power-growth of weapons, is a system where players will stock up their arsenal incrementally over time, and lose fewer weapons than they acquire, with a relatively small impact on agency/actual power, once some key categories of weapons have been secured. It�s a power-growth curve that rises slowly, with a few dents when a piece of gear is lost, and then flattens out over time.

Freelancer Tools: The dramatic shark fin:
The design of the rules for losing Freelancer Tools mean that we can be very generous with these items. That�s why we can have a system like the Safehouse Supply Crate, where the player gets a free item for every return to the safehouse. And that�s why we have the low prices for Freelancer Tools, which means that players can almost always afford a Freelancer Tool found at a supplier. We can give the player a lot of tools, precisely because we know that they are almost certainly for limited ownership.
This gives a much steeper power-growth, where we can give the player the experience of quickly gaining power � the From Zero to Hero journey that is so important to drive engaging experiences in a game mode inspired by Rogue-likes.
If we wanted this type of power-growth without the flip side of taking the Freelancer Tools away form the players, the experience of the game mode would be very short, because the arsenal of Freelancer Tools would be depleted too quickly � so this would hurt the replayability a lot.
The Freelancer Tools a player is given makes a big difference towards what gameplay styles are accessible. Together with the Syndicate Type property of the syndicates the player is going up against (that determines what objectives are giving payouts) this is our main way of incentivizing different playstyles.
This means that ensuring a dramatic influx of Freelancer Tools between Campaigns, is a huge driver in making the individual Campaign run different. A more dramatic difference between the availability of tools between campaign runs, forces players to try out tools and strategies that might be outside of the comfort zone instead of relying on go-to strategies. This gives much more variation and a much wider dynamic range of experiences.
This is the main reason we have chosen to stick to this design, even with all of the known issues and frustrations it brings. We simply believe that it makes the differences between runs much more memorable and interesting. And that is the promise of HITMAN: Freelancer � that any approach is valid, and any challenge is different from the previous one.
As a mitigation for players that gets turned off by not having reliable access to some of the more iconic tools in the HITMAN arsenal, we have added new versions of these tools based on feedback from the CTT. This means that players can now find and purchase a lockpick, coins, and dart guns that are persistent and not part of the Freelancer Tools category; these versions of the items can be bought and safely stored on your gear walls in the safehouse.

As frustrating as it can be to lose them, I agree with their reasoning.

Rythian fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Apr 24, 2023

# ? Apr 24, 2023 01:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Hitman Megathread: I didn't realize frog was an option

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