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Glazius posted:Agon seems like it might suit the cycle well. It's even got a phase of play that's like shooting a hype reel, where you name yourself and give an account of your deeds in order to step up to the challenge. Agon would be great thematically. You’d lose the tactical fun but that’s fine for some tables. And the underlying system is wholly CC now.
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Apr 23, 2023 19:49
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https://twitter.com/GateGeek/status/1650025391531196421 So I am completely checked out of the Magic scene, maybe someone who's more plugged in can share some additional details, but listening to the Youtube video linked in that tweet thread what I can gather is: 1). There's some upcoming Magic release that's going to be debuted in a couple weeks 2). This guy somehow got his hands on it and made some unboxing/leaks videos showing it off 3). WotC sent the actual no-fooling Pinkertons to his house
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Apr 24, 2023 02:52
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Kai Tave posted:https://twitter.com/GateGeek/status/1650025391531196421 That sound I can hear is the Wooshing sound of any good perception of WotC if they hire those scum. Someone AT hasbro must have used then before- this will just be the first time we heard it.
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Apr 24, 2023 03:24
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Hasbro probably used Securitas AB who now owns the Pinkerton agency
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Apr 24, 2023 03:59
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Kai Tave posted:So I am completely checked out of the Magic scene, maybe someone who's more plugged in can share some additional details, but listening to the Youtube video linked in that tweet thread what I can gather is: 1) March of the Machine is the current MtG set, which involves a giant multiversal invasion that Changes Everything. March of the Machine: The Aftermath is basically the first mini-set WotC is making, which covers the immediate consequences of Everything Changing. So, it's both a new kind of release WotC wants to carefully control the public perception of, and it's a giant pile of plot spoilers that are much more direct than the usual "Person X is on Plane Y, wait for the story explanation to find out what that means" spoilers you'd get from seeing cards early. 2) As far as I know, it's the usual kind of leak. There's a bunch of steps in WotC's supply line, someone managed to snag a box from one of them and open it, it happens. 3) Jesus christ WotC, it's just a card game, you don't need to break anyone's legs over a leak. EDIT: By "mini-set", I mean a smaller collection of standard-legal cards they're releasing between actual sets.
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Apr 24, 2023 04:30
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Lurks With Wolves posted:3) Jesus christ WotC, it's just a card game, you don't need to break anyone's legs over a leak. they saw what Nintendo did and wanted to get in on that action
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Apr 24, 2023 04:36
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Lurks With Wolves posted:1) So, it's both a new kind of release WotC wants to carefully control the public perception of WotC, once again winning hearts and minds.
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Apr 24, 2023 04:44
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And the sad punchline is that the big deal Thing That Happens (tm) is well out of the bag. We know what changes to make it that Everything Changes! (tm), that ship has sunk already, but sure, send the leg breakers out anyways. Also if we're talking about WotC and storytelling and public presentation of the ongoing plotline I'm going to vaguely gesture to the fact that we got the entire story of their big Avengers Endgame thing about a month before they started doing official previews (and even longer before the big setting overview to cover all the multiversal action) meaning we knew everything that happened in the big war arc before they'd shown off even a dozen cards ABOUT the big war, and that's without getting into exactly how they resolved the storyline (the exact way they resolved the last two big ones plus a couple of massive 11th hour howlers!). I'm just saying that intimidating leakers does nothing to resolve the storyline presentation issues that are coming from inside the house. Something something glass houses I think?
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Apr 24, 2023 06:22
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Wizards are seemingly not content to have been out of the negative press for a month or so, so they knew they had to get the band back together. Unfortunately, I sincerely do not think this story is going to have legs in the way the previous ones did, like M30 and the OGL issues, even in the more fertile landscape of backlash we have today. Your average person (and therefore your average game player) is selfish and concerned only with what affects them, so a single person getting harassed doesn't tend to move the needle. Of course, I would be happy to be proved wrong here.
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Apr 24, 2023 09:43
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Lurks With Wolves posted:2) As far as I know, it's the usual kind of leak. There's a bunch of steps in WotC's supply line, someone managed to snag a box from one of them and open it, it happens. Do we know if it's a "leak" in the way most people define it (i.e., someone receives product in advance that they're supposed to have but decides to leak details about it prior to the stated release date), or do they claim someone actually stole a box from somewhere in the supply chain and was showing it off online? Neither case is deserving of the loving Pinkertons, obviously, but I'm curious how WotC is going to try to frame this.
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Apr 24, 2023 10:40
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Comrade Koba posted:Do we know if it's a "leak" in the way most people define it (i.e., someone receives product in advance that they're supposed to have but decides to leak details about it prior to the stated release date), or do they claim someone actually stole a box from somewhere in the supply chain and was showing it off online? He claims he got a deal on older product and the distributor shipped him the new cards instead, and WotC treats him like he stole it. I assume there is a hard distributor date he broke that makes his story impossible for them. I personally would not have made three videos about those cards, speculating on the price of already existing cards changing is pretty much the only sure way he could have made money and keep it.
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Apr 24, 2023 11:00
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It's not that I have any faith in the goodness of WotC, but that's a pretty big claim for a one-tweet summary of a YouTube video about a streamer. I absolutely believe they'd be dicks about investigating a leak. But there're three intervening platforms of sensationalizing media here, and two of them are monetized for clicks.
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Apr 24, 2023 11:13
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Apr 24, 2023 11:38
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Has the whole Pinkerton thing been independently verified? Or did the leaker provide proof in their video on the subject? A quick search suggests the story is pretty much sourced on Reddit via the leaker’s own Youtube on events. Someone who uploaded all this stuff on an identifiable account, presumably for the views, might not be a 100% reliable source of information. I suppose WotC couldn’t send the local police; I’m not really sure who they could send if they believed the cards had been stolen and not distributed by mistake.
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Apr 24, 2023 15:12
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The Pinkertons are currently the corporate risk management division of Securitas, which is one of the largest security firms out there. This is exactly who Hasbro/WotC would have on payroll to handle leaks they deemed sensitive. Yeah, it's sensational because it's the Pinkertons, but if it wasn't them, it'd be the corporate risk management division of some other security firm.
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Apr 24, 2023 15:17
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Narsham posted:Has the whole Pinkerton thing been independently verified? Or did the leaker provide proof in their video on the subject? A quick search suggests the story is pretty much sourced on Reddit via the leaker’s own Youtube on events. WotC almost certainly sent a private firm: It's definitely their best play at that point from a "We need to shut this down and find the source" perspective. The cops won't do anything, legal action is slow, and they needed, from their perspective, to nip it in the bud. Was it literal Pinkerton's or just some rando firm? We are unlikely to ever get confirmation. This dude appears scared shitless, and WotC will never comment. So, believe it or don't, this is all we're ever gonna get.
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Apr 24, 2023 15:19
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Sending any thugs to threaten someone is pretty equal. The specific branding doesn't matter.
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Apr 24, 2023 15:23
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Apr 24, 2023 15:32
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Tsilkani posted:The Pinkertons are currently the corporate risk management division of Securitas, which is one of the largest security firms out there. This is exactly who Hasbro/WotC would have on payroll to handle leaks they deemed sensitive. Yeah, it's sensational because it's the Pinkertons, but if it wasn't them, it'd be the corporate risk management division of some other security firm. yeah it almost certainly really was the Pinkertons, but only in the sense that they're big players in this space - it's historically / culturally significant for their name to come up, but it's sort of like an incident with a PMC and name-dropping that it was specifically Blackwater
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Apr 24, 2023 15:33
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Toshimo posted:
You probably could have called it good after that first point, tbh
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Apr 24, 2023 15:53
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Terrible Opinions posted:Sending any thugs to threaten someone is pretty equal. The specific branding doesn't matter. What we don't know is whether they were sent to intimate or to earnestly investigate where the cards came from. A little of both seems likely. WotC has a legitimate interest in finding the leak to prevent future ones, and talking to this guy is the obvious first step in that process. But the always-on distortion bubble around content creators makes any of this impossible to evaluate.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:07
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moths posted:What we don't know is whether they were sent to intimate or to earnestly investigate where the cards came from. A little of both seems likely. You know what works just as well if they want to talk to this guy and is both cheaper and has better optics than sending the goon squad to someone's house? A phone call.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:10
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Kai Tave posted:You know what works just as well if they want to talk to this guy and is both cheaper and has better optics than sending the goon squad to someone's house? A phone call. That's just not how these things work.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:11
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Kai Tave posted:You know what works just as well if they want to talk to this guy and is both cheaper and has better optics than sending the goon squad to someone's house? A phone call.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:13
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Yeah I dunno that I'd be shocked if I'm leaking something from a company and people representing that company show up at the crib.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:14
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Kai Tave posted:A phone call. What kind of absolute psychopath answers an unknown caller in 2023?
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Apr 24, 2023 16:19
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Dexo posted:Yeah I dunno that I'd be shocked if I'm leaking something from a company and people representing that company show up at the crib. Yeah once I saw that story, I was like "This person didn't really understand the opsec required for this sort of thing." Not saying I do and I'm trying not to blame the guy, but it's true. I would have expected a strongly worded letter and not thugs, but it's not unheard of.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:20
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That was some awfully quick red text for someone who doesn't seem to be on board with "Pinkertons are a good thing."
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Apr 24, 2023 16:21
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PharmerBoy posted:That was some awfully quick red text for someone who doesn't seem to be on board with "Pinkertons are a good thing." The magic thread is full of illiterates.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:22
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I'd like to know who bought it, so that I can marvel in awe at how Not Mad they are. That Old Tree posted:I doubt he continues this way to the end. But who knows? Why would he waste the extra time and money loving with a judge's patience like this in the first place, in a case against an opponent with far more resources than his other victims? Maybe he's enough of a deluded narcissist that he'll Alex Jones himself into ruination. I've wondered how serious he is when he says that absolutely everyone who's ever said, repeated, or clicked the "Like" button on anything negative about him, will be "brought to justice." Of course no one alive has the means to do that, but my unlawyerly guess is that because he's trying to show that GenCon damaged his reputation, he thinks that justifies complaining about random posters in a legal proceeding. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 16:23
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moths posted:What we don't know is whether they were sent to intimate or to earnestly investigate where the cards came from. A little of both seems likely.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:23
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Honestly, yeah, this probably isn't going to move the needle of public perception in any real way. A guy hosed around, and then he found out. At most it's going to lead to more conversations about whether a card game company should have this kind of power in the first place, and that's a much bigger issue than a TG industry thread is really prepared to cover.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:28
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Posting a public video on your youtube channel showing off the thing you shouldn't have yet is nearly the dumbest thing you could do with something like this. The dumbest thing would be a live twitch stream outside your house showing your home address.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:31
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Terrible Opinions posted:Assuming he isn't lying they were threatening him. Which really terminates any possible good will. You've also got to assume that the guy didn't just feel threatened when someone showed up with questions. It's a subtle distinction, but one scenario gets you clicks and the other isn't a story.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:33
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I mean, at minimum, it's entirely plausible and likely that WotC, discovering that sensitive info was leaked, sent a private security firm with a background in recovery out to tell thi guy in no uncertain terms that:
And they would have made it clear that only by doing those 3 things and probably signing a bunch of paperwork saying that it was all his fault and WotC were real nice folks for resolving this amicably, that they wouldn't ban him from all events for life, black list him from all product orders, and generally take shots at him in any industry space. That's how things are done. I'm not condoning it, I'm just saying, from a practical perspective, there's no reason to believe that all didn't happen because it fits the company, and how megacorps approach product leaks. I could see Apple or Ford or Verizon sll doing the exact same. So, going :shockedpikachu: or going "I need video evidence" (which surely does not exist), just means you don't have a finger on the pulse of how this works, which is fine, but multiple people are here going "Yep, that's SOP." Now, should they do that, or should they even be able to do that? Obviously, not. But we live in Capitalist Regime Americana. So, the megacorps buy the power.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:42
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moths posted:You've also got to assume that the guy didn't just feel threatened when someone showed up with questions.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:42
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moths posted:What we don't know is whether they were sent to intimate or to earnestly investigate where the cards came from. A little of both seems likely. I doubt they care where the box came from. His explanation that he had a guy offer to sell him March of the Machines products, and got the similarly-named "March of the Machines: Aftermath" by accident sounds perfectly plausible. Even if they did care, that's the sort of thing they could send a threatening email or letter to get the source on rather than sending private security firm goons. Sending the goons there to seize the product, interrogate him, and threaten him with the possible consequences of this leak is an intimidation action, primarily. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 16:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:Assuming he isn't lying which is possible, there is not reason besides intimidation to mention jail time and a fine. If they brought that up as an adult humans everyone knows that's a threat. If they stick to the script, the threat was likely a variant of "If we find out these weren't purchased 100% legally, in every way, we will cooperate with law enforcement to treat them as stolen product and pursue that to the fullest extent of the law, including jail time and fines". Which is a threat, but one they can legally make. They were 100% there to intimidate this guy into doing exactly what they wanted, and they got it.
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Apr 24, 2023 16:47
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moths posted:What kind of absolute psychopath answers an unknown caller in 2023? Terminal indoor kid energy, I pick up the phone with the desperation and loneliness that anyone looking for a job has.  reading this thread I got an email alert that the pinkertons are hiring
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Apr 24, 2023 16:48
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Ominous Jazz posted:
FWD:RE:RE:re: Can you swing a sack of doorknobs?
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Apr 24, 2023 16:50
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