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Ariamaki posted:"drag chain over Dominating for about 2 seconds" It's not even that for me. My team of Chef Greg, Chef Ryoshu, Shi Don (ditched Warp Don because I don't want to pay attention to charge), Tingtang Man + Rabbit (don't have Sinclair's stew) has not once had issues autoing through everything but the last fight, and that one has never given me trouble either (though yeah, that does require manual targeting). I've just been casually clicking through this event on my phone whilst doing other stuff and I'm at 4500+ plushies atm. Doesn't feel too bad to me? Though I do agree the Event design is a bit bloaty and could be tightened in the future, since it doesn't seem ideal that I'm trying to actively minimize the amount of time I spend with the product 
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Apr 25, 2023 18:07
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Ariamaki posted:That's a decision you've made for yourself, not some immutable law of the universe. Absolutely insane way to look at things lol. The variety of rewards makes it obvious they expect people to finish it.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:15
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It's too bad they're so against macros, that's a good way to deal with boring gacha events like this one. Though I'd think the easier one to macro would just be the first stage rather then the dungeon.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:21
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just because you can choose not to finish it doesnt mean its okay for finishing it to be really grindy and boring lol
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Apr 25, 2023 18:30
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Arzaac posted:As far as grindable events go I think I would've preferred if there was just a daily mission to do the dungeon (that gives a ton of plushies of course)
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Apr 25, 2023 18:36
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That'd add a lot, I think. Or challenge bosses similar to the refraction railway that give a big one time dump of event currency for clearing them.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:37
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Considering how much they improved the Luxcavation stuff I have to think they'll probably tone it down next time.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:43
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Absolutely insane way to look at things lol. The variety of rewards makes it obvious they expect people to finish it. The only things from this event that actually matter, because they will be harder and more expensive to obtain after the event and affect the gameplay are the EGO and the Identity. And both of them are pretty early in the ladder. Everything else is either meaningless cosmetic stuff, or useful mats that the game has been showering the players with regardless of event. The devs absolutely do not expect every single player to finish it, in the same vein they do not expect every single player to have the embellished banner from RR. I agree that the complaint about the event being grindy stands regardless, but if you got the Don EGO and are feeling that the grind is miserable, can't you just....stop? 
Lt. Lizard fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 18:59
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The Don ego is like 1/3 of the way through the rewards track (2000ish out of 6000) so just going for that doesn't really save you from the grind anyways.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:18
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:The Don ego is like 1/3 of the way through the rewards track (2000ish out of 6000) so just going for that doesn't really save you from the grind anyways. Except you're already way more than halfway to that point just from doing the full EX story clear up to the point that you unlock the grind. Theantero posted:It's not even that for me. My team of Chef Greg, Chef Ryoshu, Shi Don (ditched Warp Don because I don't want to pay attention to charge), Tingtang Man + Rabbit (don't have Sinclair's stew) has not once had issues autoing through everything but the last fight, and that one has never given me trouble either (though yeah, that does require manual targeting). Yeah, I tend to play a little paranoid / hands on, so that's slowing me down: Currently running both Chefs, base Don, Blade Sinclair, and the Rabbit.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:21
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Oh? I guess I wasn't paying much attention to how high the first-time rewards were, I somehow thought there weren't any and you only got the normal stage-clear plushies.
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Apr 25, 2023 19:59
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Oh? I guess I wasn't paying much attention to how high the first-time rewards were, I somehow thought there weren't any and you only got the normal stage-clear plushies. Yeah, it can be easy to miss: Here's the reward payouts from the very first stage of the event, on first-time clear. I didn't tally the entire thing but I know that by the time I got to the Spicy Dungeon I was well into the four-digit range, but definitely under 1,500.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:22
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Ariamaki posted:Except you're already way more than halfway to that point just from doing the full EX story clear up to the point that you unlock the grind.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:29
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And I mean, can't you complain that the grind is miserable after stopping? It feels really bad to have all those rewards the game is showing to you and telling you that you can get, having the time and desire to play the game, but the actual experience of playing the game being way too dull and tedious to want to do. That's a reasonable complaint. Especially if you missed the mirror dungeons some weeks or took a break from the game between launch and now and thus weren't actually showered in mats.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:30
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I didn’t have any of the event bonus til after I EX cleared — I believe I ended up around 950 tokens.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:32
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I don't understand how speed interacts with clashes in this game. I had a W Don with two actions, a Leap on the left (so it should be used first?) and a Rip Space on the right. I used Leap to clash with the abno's 4-speed coin, and Rip space to clash with a 3-speed coin, thinking that by the time leap finished she would have enough charge from the Leap to hit 10. Instead, uncharged rip space went off first, despite the fact that both it and the attack it was clashing with were supposed to be later in the turn order. Then Don failed her clash horribly and got instagibbed by Mr. Spiced Up. Why did that happen? How can I tell which order clashes will resolve in?
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Apr 25, 2023 20:51
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Junpei posted:Oh god, the idea of Don's perkiness being applied to heretic-smiting is going to be terrifying. Hexenhammer, obviously. Everyone else just thinking enhancements are heresy, Don thinking that moving mechanical parts are actually witchcraft and is enthusiastic about destroying them but for the entirely wrong reason seems perfectly in character as an idea. Archenteron fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 21:13
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:I don't understand how speed interacts with clashes in this game. If two parties clash, it happens at the time set by the faster party's speed. I see W Don has 3-6 speed, so if she was faster in either clash, the clashes take place at her timings. I assume you only brought four people to the final fight, though? That might be messing with the evaluation order. It does go from left-to-rightish in abnormality battles when you bring five people.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:14
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:I don't understand how speed interacts with clashes in this game. Assuming Don was the faster one in this scenario, both skills would have been triggering at her speed, at which point the tie breaker is the order you assigned them in. Most likely for whatever reason you assigned the Rip Space clash and then the Leap clash, so that's the order they triggered in.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:17
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I myself am feeling it because this is happening alongside Granblue Fantasy's Guild War. Picture very much related https://twitter.com/lawzanid/status/1649664815756091394?s=20 Grinding in one window and then grinding in another window I hope the next time around they pull the requirements back or increase the rewards per run.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:25
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Absolutely insane way to look at things lol. The variety of rewards makes it obvious they expect people to finish it. This. Why are the only choices "enjoy it like it is, no critique" or "don't do it"? The rewards are good it's a better spread of rewards-to-energy than the dailies, and if it's in the game (any game for that matter) it's 100% up to the developers on how people experience it. I just wish I didn't have to do the dungeon 30+ times while having to pay attention as well. Either have it at MD-tier attention and expect people to do it a lot for a full clear or ask of them some attention and care and in THAT case maybe dial the total clears back down a little. That's my point. It's having it require a whole bunch of clears AND I have to pay attention at the boss for the Nth time already even though I've already showed mastery by beating it a bunch and the dungeon is like super bland and same-y with there only being two unique events. Bleh. e.: put another way - I really enjoyed Refraction Railway! I had absolutely one of the worst turn totals if what's been posted in the thread is any indication but the fights were unique, they demanded I do well and it felt like my effort was both very well rewarded AND the game didn't take the piss by then turning around and saying "now do it a few more times again for good measure". I mean, obviously, hard content like that is ideally one-and-done, and I'm glad the devs agreed! Great content, really looking forwards to Line 2! KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 22:02
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Yeah, sharing a lot of sentiments in regards to the grind. Starting from Lifetime Stew Don at 2.2k Bongy, even with full 120% bonus it takes 20+ completions of the Hard Dungeon to reach 6k. sevenflow posted:Considering how much they improved the Luxcavation stuff I have to think they'll probably tone it down next time. I am of the same opinion, since it's probably rather hard to make significant changes to the event while it's live. Maybe they might make an announcement in regards to it later? Would like some affirmation.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:21
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Mmm, thinking about it, between event prizes, battle pass and what I have I can probably get all I want. Around 100 boxes for N Sinclair if unlucky, like 25 for Gregor's EGO, maybe a bit more for Mersault and I could go all in on Don Quixote. Sadly can't get W Corp and Telepole at the same time.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:37
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I finished up the bongy grind last night and yeah it sucks rear end, challenge missions as mentioned upthread or event dailies would go a long way to make things feel better. lots of room for improvement lol. the amount of rewards feels very nice at least. that said I didn't expect them to nail the balance right out of the gate and it's far from the worst event grind I've seen, so I'm looking forward to whatever improvements they make for the next one.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:45
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I'm fine with people critiquing it but certain views make me think certain people failed to learn the lesson that Undertale strove to taught us: Just because something is there in a game doesn't mean you have to do it and in fact you might be worse off for doing so. Do what feels good, have fun, don't frustrate yourself.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:30
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KobunFan posted:I'm fine with people critiquing it but certain views make me think certain people failed to learn the lesson that Undertale strove to taught us: Just because something is there in a game doesn't mean you have to do it and in fact you might be worse off for doing so. Do what feels good, have fun, don't frustrate yourself. Eh, some people want to accomplish things and get 100%. I can see why they would be annoyed with the mindless grind to get to that 100%.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:34
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KobunFan posted:I'm fine with people critiquing it but certain views make me think certain people failed to learn the lesson that Undertale strove to taught us: Just because something is there in a game doesn't mean you have to do it and in fact you might be worse off for doing so. Do what feels good, have fun, don't frustrate yourself. the lessons that undertale taught us are that killing npcs will unlock the coolest boss fights, and that undertale fans are annoying. not applicable here *edit* like drat you guys understand that making the grind less god-awful boring and smoother to complete is good for the continued health of the game, right? you don't want the whole playerbase groaning and rolling their eyes every time you release new content because we gotta do 40 braindead MD runs to get a cool banner lmao. just make it less poo poo, it's not that deep! YES bread fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 01:45
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DropTheAnvil posted:Eh, some people want to accomplish things and get 100%. I can see why they would be annoyed with the mindless grind to get to that 100%. And that's alright, I guess. I just wanted to mention my point of view.
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Apr 26, 2023 02:01
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The grind could and most likely will be better, because I believe in the playerbase yelling at PM to make it so, but doing Literally Everything in a gacha game event is not something I go out of my way to do even in the ones that I still play and like because if it sucks, I simply don't do it.
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Apr 26, 2023 02:02
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Considering PM history with its fanbase, it's likely that they tune it along the way. This is after all their first gacha game and for what I've seen, it's a pretty solid start and could outshine (If they don't already) some of its competitor if the quality is kept through out the year.
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Apr 26, 2023 04:09
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Finished off refraction railway to get a boost to my extraction to hopefully finally get chef Ryoshu. Got her on my 10 ticket woo. Then, "oh wait, the guaranteed 000 deca ticket is a separate panel". Use the 000 ticket and... two repeat 000s. Including... chef Ryoshu...
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Apr 26, 2023 06:25
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Finally finished getting everything from the event. Wasn't the worst, honestly, I basically just did some dungeon runs whenever I was otherwise watching a show and I ended up blazing through it. Probably helps that I managed to snag both Chef Ryoshu and Sinclair's Stew. Definitely hope they tone it down for next event, because I don't love that. Anyways, now to get back to Railway! I think I'll have a much easier time of it now, I've acquired G Gregor, Chef Ryoshu, and Bunny Heathcliff since then.
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Apr 26, 2023 06:35
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I did a 10 pull on the event and the chain screen showed 3 000s, got all excited thinking I got the chef ID and maybe the ego... Got 3 chef ids. Still no N Faust tho :/
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Apr 26, 2023 08:49
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KobunFan posted:I'm fine with people critiquing it but certain views make me think certain people failed to learn the lesson that Undertale strove to taught us: Just because something is there in a game doesn't mean you have to do it and in fact you might be worse off for doing so. Do what feels good, have fun, don't frustrate yourself. (new) XCom devs had a different perspective: if you do not account for it, players will optimize the fun out of your game and it's not really their fault for doing it. You cannot blame players for behaviors and goals that the game design itself presents as potentially optimal or desirable, you make sure that what's desirable and optimal is fun and engaging rather than dull and monotonous (or worse in the case of multiplayer games, toxic).
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Apr 26, 2023 09:25
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KobunFan posted:I'm fine with people critiquing it but certain views make me think certain people failed to learn the lesson that Undertale strove to taught us: Just because something is there in a game doesn't mean you have to do it and in fact you might be worse off for doing so. Do what feels good, have fun, don't frustrate yourself.
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Apr 26, 2023 09:41
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If you cap the grind, some players will complain that there's not enough content If you put more effort in adding more variety to the grind, you'll end up spending time that could be used to make more content, and people will complain there's not enough content If you make difficult story content, you risk locking people out of the story and/or complaining that it's p2w If you make the grind too long, people will complain about the tedium I think it's just an inherent problem of any game which encourages people to log in every day. But since they decided to make a gacha, I think that putting the missable reward roughly 1/3-1/4 of the way through the grind, while making the grind after that slightly better than doing existing content after the weekly/daily bonuses, was a good compromise. I'm annoyed that I'll be missing out on getting enough tickets to do another 10-pull, but I don't think I can tolerate running this dungeon anymore, especially with the weekly reset coming up
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Apr 26, 2023 15:57
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posadas posted:If you cap the grind, some players will complain that there's not enough content These three event structures have basically been around from the start of the game and ensure that even basic events are at least somewhat interesting to grind out, and rotating between them ensures that even events with zero effort don't get repetitive and players remain engaged. Furthermore they can be used as a foundation for more complicated events - for example, an event that combines the basic principles of the mission type event and the standard type event to grind currencies that let you build structures that unlock new content. At the very least, it needs to be something more substantial than "run this dungeon 30+ times." If every event is as much of a fun vampire as this one was I can't see this game having much of a future outside of story content drops.
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Apr 26, 2023 16:13
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posadas posted:I think it's just an inherent problem of any game which encourages people to log in every day. But since they decided to make a gacha
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Apr 26, 2023 16:33
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The main thing I'd point to right now is the importance of variety in your grind. And yes, having multiple event currencies helps with that in FGO, but the real source of variety there is that well-designed events are structured in a way where you're grinding at A for a few days, then grinding at B, then grinding at C until you have everything you care about. Compare that to this event, where you're just grinding one node from the start of the grind to when you finally stop and the final boss is just hard enough that you can't really diverge from your best team comp/approach to the mirror dungeon once you figure it out. It's just a very monotonous grind if you're the kind of person who needs to pay attention to the game when you're grinding. And again, I do have faith that future events will be better about this. At the very least, it's so much easier to have a variety of content when you have more content in the game in the first place.
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Apr 26, 2023 16:36
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Huh, y'all are really comparing FGO favorably to this? I don't really mind the grind here to the point I am still kinda enjoying running the dungeons and I thought that the main reason for that was that I was used to various FGO grinds that were almost uniformly worse.
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Apr 26, 2023 16:58
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