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Android Blues posted:People are right that Syndrome's an amoral arms dealer, but that's just set dressing for the actual gripe the movie takes with his plan, which is that it makes Special People no longer special and redistributes their deserved rewards to the unworthy masses. This is a core theme of the movie - bureaucratic leeches force Bob into an office job despite his amazing talents, Dash isn't allowed to compete in school sports using his super-speed, etc. The Parrs are more remarkable than ordinary people and the position of the movie is that they should therefore be allowed to rise to the top of society, but are being suppressed by government overreach. The movie doesn't assert that Bob and the other supers should be allowed to rise to the top of society, however, only that they should be allowed to experience self-actualization.
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Apr 20, 2023 21:56
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I don't think it's at all intentional - I don't think Brad Bird is a raging libertarian whose vision was to direct the CGI equivalent of The Fountainhead - but it's definitely a core theme, not just a couple of scenes. It's a movie where being average is bad, the government and civil society are drags on the potential of exceptional individuals, and the non-conformist metaphor at the heart of it is pretty freely conflated with the idea that the protagonists are Simply Better than other people, and so it's especially outrageous when they're subject to regulation. The superhero suppression act that initiates the plot happens because Bob saves a suicidal guy from jumping, gives him a minor injury when he catches him, and gets hit with a fatuous lawsuit that the government agrees with. It's a direct critique of civil society as a source of stultifying bureaucracy, set against the self-motivated private individual as the source of all true social good. In many ways these themes just grow out of an interest in the superhero genre, which is fundamentally about society being improved by the self-motivated action of exceptional individuals, and the places the movie goes just make that core idea really explicit. But it's also more than that: Syndrome saying "once everyone's super, no-one will be!" isn't just an offbeat line isolated from the rest of the plot: characters hammer this home in dialogue frequently in the movie's first act (the Dash goes out for track subplot also has "saying everyone's special [...] is another way of saying no-one is", which Syndrome's line is directly calling back to). Here are some quotes. quote:Announcer: Under tremendous public pressure, and the crushing financial burden of an ever mounting series of lawsuits, the government quietly initiated the superhero relocation program. The supers will be granted amnesty from responsibility for past actions, in exchange for the promise to never again resume hero work. quote:Bob: It’s not a graduation. He’s moving from the fourth grade to the fifth grade. quote:Mr. Huph: ...a company... It's just scene after scene of "regulations and red tape reward unexceptional people and enforce mediocrity". This is all probably basically an accident - but it's also a consistent reading that isn't really contradicted by anything else in the movie. Like, yeah, the scenes at Bob's insurance job also critique the venal greed of the insurance industry - but Randian libertarianism would take the same position on "parasite" industries which don't provide real value to consumers. Rand liked builders and contributors, and romanticised engineers and architects as the strongman saviours of society, not financial services companies. I think all the character-driven stuff you mention about Bob learning to trust his family and Syndrome's villainy partly being on him, that's all true also - but it sits alongside the accidental politics stuff, so the movie kind of winds up being about both things.
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Apr 20, 2023 22:02
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Also the "great man needs a virile excuse to better himself" thing with whatserface and the island adventures.
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Apr 20, 2023 23:25
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Those were also moments of boring domesticity that Bob had been rejecting and Helen was really into, like finishing the process of unpacking. That was the other part of why Helen thought Bob was having an affair, not just the secret sneaking around but the fact that they were fighting over the things that she valued as being part of running a family, but he was rejecting as the trappings of boring normalcy (which I guess there might've been an implication it was more him being unfulfilled in his career). I don't think it was trying to vindicate his midlife crisis. As for his insurance job...uh...well, that's the insurance industry. It's nominally about helping people, but it's financially motivated to avoid payouts.
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Apr 21, 2023 00:09
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SlothfulCobra posted:Those were also moments of boring domesticity that Bob had been rejecting and Helen was really into, like finishing the process of unpacking. That was the other part of why Helen thought Bob was having an affair, not just the secret sneaking around but the fact that they were fighting over the things that she valued as being part of running a family, but he was rejecting as the trappings of boring normalcy (which I guess there might've been an implication it was more him being unfulfilled in his career). I don't think it was trying to vindicate his midlife crisis. I think the movie does wind up vindicating Bob on those points, though - the lesson he learns is that he should trust his family, not that his contempt for "average" people was wrong. Syndrome's grand plan specifically mirrors his exceptionalist anxiety in the first act, so it isn't a situation where we're meant to think first act Mr. Incredible's sense of frustration at Big Government enforcing mediocrity is a character flaw and then his pivot point is realising this - rather it's setting the table for a dramatised repudiation of enforced mediocrity when the Parrs foil Syndrome's plan to squash all the Great People and then give the undeserving masses superpowers.
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Apr 21, 2023 14:27
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FilthyImp posted:Also the "great man needs a virile excuse to better himself" thing with whatserface and the island adventures. That whole thing is literally a trap to occupy him until he can be killed.
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Apr 21, 2023 15:44
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The whole point is that Syndrome and Mirage are exploiting Bob's midlife crisis and feelings of uselessness to get him to test the killer robots and hopefully kill him in the process, meanwhile Bob's growing distant from his family to the point that Helen thinks he's having an affair and the kids think their parents' marriage is on the rocks. This is not portrayed as a good thing.
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Apr 21, 2023 16:07
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It feels weird that all of these analyses skip over the part where a fragile, selfish manchild uses a shitton of tech to play hero for decades at the expense of others' lives. Then when he "gives his power to the masses", it'd inevitably go to the highest bidders and the ones with the most money to afford it. How often in the real world do billionaires hide behind a populist veneer to stoke their egos? How often does that get sycophants to betray their own self interest to worship them? Are we really gonna take Syndrome's argument at face value when the guy's got more in common with Trump and Musk?
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Apr 21, 2023 16:11
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The Bee posted:It feels weird that all of these analyses skip over the part where a fragile, selfish manchild uses a shitton of tech to play hero for decades at the expense of others' lives. Then when he "gives his power to the masses", it'd inevitably go to the highest bidders and the ones with the most money to afford it. I think if we were talking about a more textually complex movie - and that's not a knock on The Incredibles, I think it's great - sure, you could argue that Syndrome is fundamentally insincere when he says the climax of his evil plan will be to give everyone superpowers. If there was room to let that scene breathe more, if we were talking about a novel or a prestige drama and we got to spend more time lingering on character motivations, then I could see it. But with how it's framed in the context of the film, I just don't think that's the case - the fact that the characters react to "when everyone's super, no-one will be!" with dismay, and the fact that it mirrors lines from earlier in the movie which describe the status quo the protagonists are unhappy with, is a pretty clear indication that we're meant to take it not just as his genuine intention but as a Bad Thing. With how broad The Incredibles runs, if he was insincere, you'd have Bob being like, "you'll never share your power, you only care about yourself!" as a very clear signpost of what's up. If Syndrome was a Real Guy then yeah, absolutely, there's no way he'd do anything like that. He'd be shorting insulin manufacturing or something. But he's a goofy fusion of a comic book villain and a Bond villain, so he's a symbol of a social or thematic problem as much he's a character study.
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Apr 21, 2023 16:28
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His implication is that he'll keep all the power until he dies, then "gift" it upon the world. The latter action is pretty much to spit in the face of Bob's legacy, which at that point in the film is The Thing Protag Thinks He Wants. Syndrome's methods are mirrored later with him releasing the death robot on a city, then "gifting" the public with their rescue. If he were sincere about the latter intent, he would be a philanthropist actively helping the world with his inventions instead of an arms dealer on a private island- he'd be essentially the Bob Odenkirk guy in the sequel.
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Apr 21, 2023 17:12
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Android Blues posted:the fact that the characters react to "when everyone's super, no-one will be!" with dismay, and the fact that it mirrors lines from earlier in the movie which describe the status quo the protagonists are unhappy with, is a pretty clear indication that we're meant to take it not just as his genuine intention but as a Bad Thing. They don't really react to that part of Syndrome's speech at all. It's a downer moment in general since the heroes are in peril, but Syndrome just walks out and the camera cuts away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea8ebpKM2JU Like the general idea is definitely in the movie, and the movie doesn't really feel the need to directly rebut it (since it doesn't really feel the need to make a statement in general), but it's not that firm of an endorsement if it's the perspective of the villain and part of the phase when the heroes are mostly wrong about what they want. Although I guess I also prefer focus on the more down to Earth parts about the characters because when stories focus on the dynamic of "supers v. normies" it gets very weird.
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Apr 21, 2023 18:03
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Das Boo posted:His implication is that he'll keep all the power until he dies, then "gift" it upon the world. The latter action is pretty much to spit in the face of Bob's legacy, which at that point in the film is The Thing Protag Thinks He Wants. Syndrome's methods are mirrored later with him releasing the death robot on a city, then "gifting" the public with their rescue. Yeah it's pretty clear that Syndrome's whole plan is to kill Mr. Incredible (whether physically or by legacy or both) and maybe help the world later, not to actually help society. SlothfulCobra posted:Although I guess I also prefer focus on the more down to Earth parts about the characters because when stories focus on the dynamic of "supers v. normies" it gets very weird. Yeah, superheroes are a concept that are fun to explore/read/watch but they're inherently something that you can only think about so deeply or the whole concept falls apart. Or goes in real wild directions like Miracleman.
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Apr 21, 2023 18:44
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Finished The Owl House and was pretty impressed. It's an overall really good series that managed to feel fresh and unique even after 20+ years of 'kids' animation trying to push the limits of the medium and explore complex and important stuff. I watched Avatar on release, same with Korra, but other then She-ra and Voltron I haven't really checked out too many other examples in the field. I keep meaning to check out The Dragon Price but lately with Netflix I'm really hesitant to start a show until it finishes. I'm not too clued into the state of animation now, but I recall all the stuff getting axed from Netflix and WB recently and a sort of apprehension that the animation model of content was going to be drastically different in the future as it always cost more and was going to get squeezed out in favor of cost cutting.
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Apr 24, 2023 01:53
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pentyne posted:I watched Avatar on release, same with Korra, but other then She-ra and Voltron I haven't really checked out too many other examples in the field. have you heard the tale of (have you heard the tale of?) Steven...
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Apr 24, 2023 04:53
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pentyne posted:Finished The Owl House and was pretty impressed. It's an overall really good series that managed to feel fresh and unique even after 20+ years of 'kids' animation trying to push the limits of the medium and explore complex and important stuff. I watched Avatar on release, same with Korra, but other then She-ra and Voltron I haven't really checked out too many other examples in the field. I keep meaning to check out The Dragon Price but lately with Netflix I'm really hesitant to start a show until it finishes. WB is basically in a constant state of tearing itself apart for no reason and last I heard the guy in charge literally thinks scripted entertainment is a passé fad. It's not gonna be getting better any time soon.
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Apr 24, 2023 11:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:WB is basically in a constant state of tearing itself apart for no reason and last I heard the guy in charge literally thinks scripted entertainment is a passé fad. It's not gonna be getting better any time soon. It's the Discovery Channel guy who made all his money on Storage Wars and house flipping shows now put in charge of HBO and Warner.
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Apr 24, 2023 11:43
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Teen Titans Go is 10 years old? Blimey. Anyway it’s the entirety of daytime CN this week as a result.
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Apr 24, 2023 14:29
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The_Doctor posted:Teen Titans Go is 10 years old? Blimey. Anyway it’s the entirety of daytime CN this week as a result. So it's just a regular week
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Apr 24, 2023 14:46
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Sivart13 posted:Steven, Having finally watched the show for the first time myself recently I second this Off the subject, I assume there’s still been no update on the Adventure Time spin-off on HBO Max or Hilda Season 3 recently has there? There’s also supposedly a new Ben 10 series in the works and if the Wikipedia article is to be believed there’s also a Japanese anime starring Gwen being worked on as well (though I haven’t found any proof on that and after Omniverse and the 2016 reboot I don’t exactly have a lot of confidence in the brand anymore) Larryb fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Apr 24, 2023 |
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Apr 24, 2023 14:51
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The_Doctor posted:Teen Titans Go is 10 years old? Blimey. Anyway it’s the entirety of daytime CN this week as a result. And come next week CN will be losing time as come May 1st Adult Swim will begin airing at 7 PM
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Apr 24, 2023 23:36
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I've recently been watching Be Cool, Scooby Doo and it's actually quite good and it's a real shame it was not given a chance.
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Apr 25, 2023 03:19
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https://twitter.com/CCNCartoonNews/status/1650881012690296832
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Apr 25, 2023 19:35
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Ok but, why?
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Apr 25, 2023 20:00
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the vibe I got from Totally Spies was it was a never-ending parade of this image:
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Apr 25, 2023 20:06
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As I understand it Totally Spies is basically Fetish Fuel: The Series, yes (though I’ve never actually watched it to be fair so I don’t know if there’s more to it than that)
Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 25, 2023 |
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Apr 25, 2023 20:14
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Larryb posted:Ok but, why? They found new fetishes.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:34
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Larryb posted:As I understand it Totally Spies is basically Fetish Fuel: The Series, yes (though I’ve never actually watched it to be fair so I don’t know if there’s more to it than that) There isn't.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:39
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the only other thing I can think of is that it was part of the same wave of French and Italian anime-styled shows in the mid-2000s as stuff like Winx, Huntik, W.I.T.C.H., Code Lyoko, etc.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:49
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I just remember that it got very risqué for a kid’s show, like multiple episodes where the spy suits got pretty torn and shredded. I blame the French.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:51
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I Am Fowl posted:They found new fetishes. I don't know what would be funnier, if Totally Spies returned as a normal non-horny spy action cartoon or if they kept the "spirit" of the original and had Bowsette and twerking episodes
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Apr 25, 2023 20:54
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Totally Spies was never really of much interest to me, but I assume it had a decent audience even aside from the whole fetish stuff. There was some kind of sequel series I never heard much about. I think horny french animators these days have more outlet for those feelings, so they'd feel less need to shoehorn it in, but there's some kind of base level horniness inherent to the spy genre. It'd be more interesting to see a return of Italianime.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Heh, Luz Lane. she is like that in the original golden age. then the silver age kinda hosed poo poo up and most of her stuff was falling in love with various people and it falling apart joke comics. Ghost Leviathan posted:WB is basically in a constant state of tearing itself apart for no reason and last I heard the guy in charge literally thinks scripted entertainment is a passé fad. It's not gonna be getting better any time soon. disney has done a weirdly good job with ALOT of their animated shows in the last 10 or so years, they tend to kill shows before their time but they at least let the creators end it how they want mostly. also most of them tend to be pretty progressive in cool ways.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:54
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How many times has this show been revived now? This poo poo was on the air when I was in loving Junior High 
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Apr 26, 2023 02:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think horny french animators these days have more outlet for those feelings, so they'd feel less need to shoehorn it in, but there's some kind of base level horniness inherent to the spy genre. Man, I was just thinking about Wakfu but that's next level.
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Apr 26, 2023 03:01
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Larryb posted:Ok but, why? It's been years, it's time for new generations to awaken to some weird poo poo inside themselves.
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Apr 26, 2023 04:17
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TwoPair posted:It's been years, it's time for new generations to awaken to some weird poo poo inside themselves.
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Apr 26, 2023 04:46
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TwoPair posted:It's been years, it's time for new generations to awaken to some weird poo poo inside themselves. This is the correct answer. Totally Spies cannot die as long as there is a single person at risk of coming out of Cartoon Network without some weird fetish. And Teen Titans hasn’t been doing as much Lady Legasus anymore so
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Apr 26, 2023 04:48
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Neeksy posted:Do people really need assistance on that with the internet around? Look, anybody can find fetish stuff on the internet if they know what they want to find. It takes the skillful work of (*googles*) Marathon Media and Cartoon Network to totally blindside a kid with a new fetish every episode under the guise of a silly spy cartoon.
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Apr 26, 2023 05:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:Totally Spies was never really of much interest to me, but I assume it had a decent audience even aside from the whole fetish stuff. There was some kind of sequel series I never heard much about. It shouldn't surprise you that much to learn that Ian Fleming was, among other things, quite a fan of bondage and BDSM. I remember Totally Spies being pretty fun to watch at least, got a lot of dynamic energy to it and clearly having fun with outlandish premises. Also a girl-oriented action cartoon right before that was the cool thing to do. (Though I think it was probably at least contemporary with Powerpuff Girls and Kim Possible)
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Apr 26, 2023 10:07
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It shouldn't surprise you that much to learn that Ian Fleming was, among other things, quite a fan of bondage and BDSM. I still remember the running gag with the acronyms, especially the Woohp invention The U.P.W.A.T.I. Which always resulted in this exchange - "Up-whati?" "UPWATI. Underwater Power Walking Apparatus That's Inconspicuous." I loved that gag when it came up, especially the final time where the girls all said the acronym correctly in unison as they finally remembered it.
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Apr 26, 2023 17:25
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