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Yeah the face shape is absolutely Azdaja.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:03
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it being zenos wouldn't even make any loving sense. How would Golbez have gotten his body? it's just people who want Zenos to come back either because they're horny for him or want to be mad that the writers will bring him back again so they're taking every chance to jump at it
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Apr 25, 2023 20:24
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God I hope Zenos doesn't somehow come back, it would be a big shark (dragon?) jumping moment (Him sorta coming back only so Zero can work through some poo poo would be acceptable though)
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Apr 25, 2023 20:40
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Comedy option: Dadhabrea is Fusoya and Haphestus was the Lahabrea we fought in AAR.
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Apr 25, 2023 20:41
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Even if being Zenos it wasn't a dumb idea, they'd have to do some real handwaving to make that timeline fit. Unless it's a Zenos shard. 
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Apr 25, 2023 20:42
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I think the Fusoya stand in is the watcher on the moon... I can see Erichthonios though taking Lahabrea's seat (and role in being Thordan's sword food)
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Apr 25, 2023 20:51
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I forget, at the end of the last Panda raid the plot hook was that Pandaemonium somehow shows up in the present day astral sea, right? While I doubt they'll make it like required for the MSQ, I could see them linking it into Golbez shenanigans somehow. They haven't made it clear just how Golbez plans to open a rift between the void and the source, so there could be something there, maybe using the astral sea as a conduit between realms or something. Also, Golbez appears to have a contramemoria crystal floating on his left side. He's not a memoriate that we know of, right? That would be new?
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Apr 25, 2023 21:31
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It would be cool if all the post patch storylines get connected like the hooks are there.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:38
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Here's Swolbez in 4k
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Apr 25, 2023 21:42
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I'm still banking on Golbez being Zodiark's arm to reference Golbez turning into a hand and swiping the crystal in FF4.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:46
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I’m still saying Golbez is an Azem shard, because Cecil.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:10
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I would be happy if we never meet a shard of an existing character ever again. That poo poo is lame. Just let characters be themself.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:21
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WrightOfWay posted:I would be happy if we never meet a shard of an existing character ever again. That poo poo is lame. Just let characters be themself.
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Apr 25, 2023 22:21
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bobtheconqueror posted:
Maybe a piece of crystal tower brought to 13th when Azdaja flew there? Maybe CT will once again play some role in inter-shard travel?
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Apr 25, 2023 22:58
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I would laugh so hard if their big new way of inter shard travel was just to go back to the CT and bust a new door into the void.
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Apr 25, 2023 23:03
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WrightOfWay posted:I would be happy if we never meet a shard of an existing character ever again. That poo poo is lame. Just let characters be themself. Seriusly, it flattens both characters solely for the sake of 'wouldn't it be cool'. And god damnit, the last thing a character based on Golbez needs is being flattened for the sake of a cheap reveal.
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Apr 25, 2023 23:40
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Cleretic posted:Seriusly, it flattens both characters solely for the sake of 'wouldn't it be cool'. Only if you assume being a shard stops a character from being their own character, which it rather does not since a big point of the stuff with Azem is that we are not our Ancient Origin even if we share traits. Ardbert and the Warrior of Light are different people who inherited stuff from Azem but act and use them in different ways. In the case of Golbez this would make for an interesting vibe of "Here's those inherited traits used towards villainous ends rather than heroic ones, because Heroism is a choice not an inheritance".
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Apr 26, 2023 00:22
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Lord_Magmar posted:Only if you assume being a shard stops a character from being their own character, which it rather does not since a big point of the stuff with Azem is that we are not our Ancient Origin even if we share traits. Ardbert and the Warrior of Light are different people who inherited stuff from Azem but act and use them in different ways. It's a pointless addition that would already just retread the ground the character is already doing which is "Something vaguely heroic (Trying to save the voidsent from eternity) through violent means that harm others". He's already not got a lot going on, I don't think making him a direct retread of Ardbert AND Elidibus's final act would make anything any better. It adds nothing to the character or the writing but lore nerds would get to go "OOOH OOH CONNECTIONS THAT DON'T MEAN ANYTHING FOR THE CHARACTERS OR SCENES" and clap like loving seals. So Yeah I get why you'd be into it.
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Apr 26, 2023 00:33
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Dwesa posted:It looks like that crystal (?) is coming from dragon's mouth. Maybe. The color matches CT but its shape is more uniform like the crystals made my memoriates.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:02
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It's a drat sight more interesting than Zero being a Shard, which I would actively hate. The Golbez thing is mostly that he has not had much character work done beyond the stuff about his abilities to inspire and recruit, so the Azem Shard at least makes for an interesting new version of that situation. It is not about clapping at a connection and more about what they have shown and can do in one patch. Especially when the big original reveal with Golbez is that he's the protagonists brother fallen to villainy. They haven't really done that much with the FFXIV one so I'm assuming they'll do a similar reveal for the old FFIV fans to clap because reference. Also we have a bunch of mirroring between Golbez and the Warrior of Light already, just like with Ardbert, and Rubicante outright said "something in you might resonate with something in Golbez" which is why he tells us where to go at all. If it is something else I'll be just as interested, but for now the Villainous Azem Shard thing interests me. I also think Golbez ate the fragment of Zodiark on the Thirteenth and that's why he hasn't acted until now. Maybe he ate the Azem Shard too and is someone else, that would be kind of funny.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:02
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I've seen really nice fan art of people's different shards as they imagine them. It's really cool how different they make them from their wol and I think it's understandable people like seeing how different their shards turned out. I'm ambivalent on showing more of our shards personally
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Apr 26, 2023 01:14
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Lord_Magmar posted:Only if you assume being a shard stops a character from being their own character, which it rather does not since a big point of the stuff with Azem is that we are not our Ancient Origin even if we share traits. Ardbert and the Warrior of Light are different people who inherited stuff from Azem but act and use them in different ways. It adds nothing to the character and only serves to make the world feel smaller. On top of that, with reincarnations of Azem in particular you end up with really weird theming because while each incarnation of Azem may be different, they are always capital I Important. Like if Golbez were an Azem shard, it's less "Heroism is a choice" and more "the fate of worlds revolves around the shards of Azem, and it is up to them whether they are Heroes or Villains."
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Apr 26, 2023 01:14
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Changing the subject: what's your most out-there headcanon of someone on the First sharing a soul shard with someone on the Source? Mine is Zenos :: Halric.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:19
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WrightOfWay posted:It adds nothing to the character and only serves to make the world feel smaller. On top of that, with reincarnations of Azem in particular you end up with really weird theming because while each incarnation of Azem may be different, they are always capital I Important. Like if Golbez were an Azem shard, it's less "Heroism is a choice" and more "the fate of worlds revolves around the shards of Azem, and it is up to them whether they are Heroes or Villains." The fate of the worlds revolving around Azem Shards is already text, to be fair. Not from some divine purpose angle but because it is explicit that one of the traits we inherited is our adventurous nature and ability to make friends and allies and inspire them to greatness. Ultimately I think it's a plausible theory and one I would enjoy, but I also think that it's just as likely that Golbez is Zero's brother and Rubicante's logic is more generic rather than specific. I trust the writers regardless of how they handle this, so I'm happy to theorise for a connection and theming I would find interesting. Him not being a shard of Azem could be written just as badly as him being one, the detail isn't what makes for a good or bad story unless you assume they'll do it stupidly. Which so far they have avoided, since the only stuff has been hints that could be nothing or could be the lead up to the reveal. TheWorldsaStage posted:I've seen really nice fan art of people's different shards as they imagine them. It's really cool how different they make them from their wol and I think it's understandable people like seeing how different their shards turned out. Basically I'd really only want to see one more Azem Shard, a villain, because more heroic ones is just Ardbert again. Whereas a villainous shard is a new situation that is interesting to see. So basically if anyone but Golbez is a shard I won't like it, and if Golbez is or is not a shard doesn't truly matter. I think it would be interesting, but it isn't necessary for me to enjoy the story they're telling with Golbez.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:21
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Lord_Magmar posted:The fate of the worlds revolving around Azem Shards is already text, to be fair. Not from some divine purpose angle but because it is explicit that one of the traits we inherited is our adventurous nature and ability to make friends and allies and inspire them to greatness. This. I'm also half expecting Golbez to be related to Zero or secretly Azdaja somehow because I thoroughly expect some variation of "Golbez is secretly related to a hero", because the FFXIV writers like their callbacks. I definitely do not want anyone else to be a Azem shard (or even Golbez, I'm just expecting it to be the twist) because I really, really do not wanna go Gotta Catch 'Em All with the WoL's shards. That said I absolutely think Golbez ate the Thirteenth's Zodiark piece.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:28
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hopeandjoy posted:This. Gotta catch em all would suck big time, and if it wasn't for all the little things they've done with Golbez, and the existing Golbez reveal from IV. I would not be considering the possibility of him being an Azem Shard, and would consider it an awful asspull. But they've shown him doing the inspirational heroism stuff, twisted to villainy, and the end of 6.3 intentionally gave him a bunch of parallels specifically to the end of 6.0. His Scion Allies (the fiends) have sacrificed themselves to pave the way to his solitary walk towards the End, aides by a dragon who is his enemy. Plus Rubicante stating that we have a connection to Golbez as his specific reason for telling us to find Golbez on the moon. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Or neither are This would absolutely be fine, my point is if someone is an Azem Shard I want it to be Golbez, and I think there's enough existing support/characterisation for it to be a fine version of the Golbez is Cecil's brother reveal. But it is Golbez or nobody, and I don't want to see other shards of Azem just to see them. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 01:34
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's a drat sight more interesting than Zero being a Shard, which I would actively hate. Or neither are
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Apr 26, 2023 01:34
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SirPhoebos posted:Changing the subject: what's your most out-there headcanon of someone on the First sharing a soul shard with someone on the Source? Kan-E / Nutsy
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Apr 26, 2023 01:36
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The secret Sin Eater Hunt Boss and Zenos are shards imo.Forgiven Rebellion posted:This is a curious mark. According to my sources, they hail from beyond Il Mheg's borders, and may well roam all across Norvrandt. It's a mean bastard, even for a wandering eater. We've received reports of it actively seeking out veteran hunters, as if it craves the thrill of the fight. Which isn't to say that it fights fair. Sadly, several of our top Nutters have been ambushed while returning home from a successful hunt, which has led some to wonder if it commands lesser minions to guide it to promising prey. As for who it was before it turned─some say it was an elven soldier who led others in open revolt against the rulers of Lakeland before the Flood, all at the behest of the mysterious Shadowkeeper, and that like the Virtues, its unusual hunting habits are rooted in its past life... It uses a scythe, seeks out the most exciting of prey, Elven Soldier (Zenos bodyjacked an Elezen). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 01:37
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Lord_Magmar posted:The fate of the worlds revolving around Azem Shards is already text, to be fair. Not from some divine purpose angle but because it is explicit that one of the traits we inherited is our adventurous nature and ability to make friends and allies and inspire them to greatness. Sample size of two, and in different ways. We're integral because we keep kicking people's asses, Ardbert's integral because he had the worst day in Norvrandtean history. Debatably, Azem might not have been all that important in Amaurotian history; they sure as hell didn't turn up to the big climactic battle. Maybe the Azem shard on the Thirteenth doesn't matter and is just some random imp. We don't know, because we're not looking at some fateful truth of reality, we're looking at two points on a graph and trying to draw a line that connects fourteen of them. And god knows I don't want to deal with another one of those fuckers. You're right, Golbez would be more interesting to learn is an Azem shard than Zero, but more interesting than any of them is learning that none of them are Azem shards and they're their own people and stories. By the way, something we missed because it's hidden by the actual logo: that blue streak on the key art around Golbez' left hand is a crystal. Probably a Memoriate crystal, but it's hard to tell. SirPhoebos posted:Changing the subject: what's your most out-there headcanon of someone on the First sharing a soul shard with someone on the Source? Granson's parallel is hanging out in the Sharlayan library. His name is Granville.
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Apr 26, 2023 01:44
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Three Datapoints, we're also explicitly a reincarnation of Tenzen at this point, stopping Khoryu is equal to stopping a calamity textually. Also Azem was one of the fourteen rulers of the city, I think that kind of makes them important, plus Hades is motivated by their existence. It isn't like ardbert being a shard of Azem stopped him being his own character with a very different personality and motivation to the Warrior of Light. Golbez would arguably reduce the whole "Azem Shards are all the same" by being so different, and having such a separate character from the three datapoints we already have. It's kind of like we're playing the main character and the story treats us as such. Edit: Azem also in stories is shown to be a world travelling rear end kicker who saves people (the grapes) and it's one of the things Hades recognises in us as being similar to his friend. Arguably part of his motivation is to create a world where there is no need for heroes (and thus Azem has no need to travel away from him). I would say that Azem's refusal to side with the Convocation or Venat is intended to be proof they tried to go out and save the world on their own via rear end-kicking and failed, like Ardbert, because they didn't have all the facta of the situation. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 01:48
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The whole Tenzen thing is weird because his spirit came back in the finale of that trial series but how could he come back when his spirit is me
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Apr 26, 2023 02:15
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Feldegast42 posted:The whole Tenzen thing is weird because his spirit came back in the finale of that trial series but how could he come back when his spirit is me The soul remembers, probably. Ryne is a reincarnation of Minfilia and yet Minfilia can be manifested from their shared soul because Minfilia is holding on. Maybe Tenzen has been sitting around in our Soul for centuries of reincarnation waiting for when he was needed again.
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Apr 26, 2023 02:17
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Lord_Magmar posted:The soul remembers, probably. Ryne is a reincarnation of Minfilia and yet Minfilia can be manifested from their shared soul because Minfilia is holding on. Maybe Tenzen has been sitting around in our Soul for centuries of reincarnation waiting for when he was needed again. Except minfillia's consciousness was still holding on in every Mini-fillia as Ryne's big decision was "Do I live as myself or give over to Old Minifillia to bring her back?" which isn't how reincarnation works for anyone else. Even the ascians just get old manufactured memories injected they aren't giving in to old versions of themselves.
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Apr 26, 2023 02:29
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Lord_Magmar posted:The soul remembers, probably. Ryne is a reincarnation of Minfilia and yet Minfilia can be manifested from their shared soul because Minfilia is holding on. Maybe Tenzen has been sitting around in our Soul for centuries of reincarnation waiting for when he was needed again. Or that neither situation is reincarnation; Minfilia was granting people in the First power while not reincarnating as them, and Tenzen didn't reincarnate because he never passed on.
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Apr 26, 2023 02:30
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Cleretic posted:Or that neither situation is reincarnation; Minfilia was granting people in the First power while not reincarnating as them, and Tenzen didn't reincarnate because he never passed on. I'm pretty sure Tenzen is straight up reincarnation and directly stated to be so, and Minfilia and Ryne are meant to be shards of the same soul hence being able to fuse like us and Ardbert. Although I'll concede that Minfilia herself may not have been reincarnating, just following the reincarnating First Shard until she fuses with Ryne. Although they might not have fused either, in fact they didn't as of Endwalker so. Hmmmm, I still think they're shards of eachother because that would explain how the reincarnation connection works (Minfilia just has to follow the shard that feels like herself around) but that one is a lot more complicated what with her returning to the afterlife in the Source thanks to Venat/Hydaelyn, which I hadn't truly considered until now. Still pretty sure Tenzen is consistently implied to be a reincarnation situation, and that he manifests from you, much like Fray/Myste do. Especially with the Tataru's Grand Endeavour questline for the Four Lords. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Except minfillia's consciousness was still holding on in every Mini-fillia as Ryne's big decision was "Do I live as myself or give over to Old Minifillia to bring her back?" which isn't how reincarnation works for anyone else. Even the ascians just get old manufactured memories injected they aren't giving in to old versions of themselves. The memories for Ascians are "awakened" much like how the Echo in general awakens (you see meteor shower and recall the trauma of Amaurot's fall as remembered by your soul). It's not just a memory injection, it's a "here's your memories, recall them". Something similar goes on on-screen with Gaia, where she's remembering her previous life but losing her current one in the process because it is being done maliciously. If Minfilia can hold on, I reckon Tenzen can too, waiting for the moment when he manifests (much like Ryne going to the Frozen Wave of Light and Minfilia manifesting). Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 02:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:The memories for Ascians are "awakened" much like how the Echo in general awakens (you see meteor shower and recall the trauma of Amaurot's fall as remembered by your soul). It's not just a memory injection, it's a "here's your memories, recall them". Something similar goes on on-screen with Gaia, where she's remembering her previous life but losing her current one in the process because it is being done maliciously. And in the end she remembers and stays herself. And none of that changes anything about the deal with Minfillia and the Minfiillias where it's not just her memories but her actual full on consciousness hanging on. Which would also run counter to your takes on the deals with Tenzen and also Gaia. Like narratively or textually
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Apr 26, 2023 02:45
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:And in the end she remembers and stays herself. And none of that changes anything about the deal with Minfillia and the Minfiillias where it's not just her memories but her actual full on consciousness hanging on. Which would also run counter to your takes on the deals with Tenzen and also Gaia. The end of the Gaia thing has the previous Gaia/Lohgrif acknowledge Mitron, and talk about maybe meeting in a future life and "remembering" their love, but both of them move on and fade. Gaia also might still have those memories, just not available without effort/aetheric energy. Gaia's memory loss is Mitron not wanting to lose Lohgrif, as even with her recollections of her prior life once they fuse she doesn't want to abandon Ryne and tries to resist their fusion. So she remembers both her previous life and her current one, that's why the fight involves Mitron trying to destroy Gaia's memories of Ryne. Also yeah, I conceded the Minfilia thing is different, and significantly so, because of the bit in the Aetherscope with her. But the game hasn't been subtle about the Tenzen Reincarnation thing, and we now sort of know the why and the how of reincarnation and memory carry over/manifestation. Edit: Look at Fandaniel/Hermes/Amon, Amon outright says "the man I was would hate the man I have become" which is not the same thing as denying continuity, but commenting on it. That's not because the Ascians implant memories to over-write personality (if it worked that way Fandaniel as he is wouldn't exist), they use the crystals to awaken memories of the past in people. Those people then make decisions based on said memories. Fandaniel remembers his Ancient Life, in fact he remembers a shitload of his lives which is why he comes to the conclusion he does. So yes, all these situations are different and I was being overly reductive in my comparison. Minfilia and Ryne probably are shards of the same Ancient, but Minfilia was just following the reincarnation of her counterpart, not fused with it (and ultimately gets to go back to the Source). Tenzen has more or less been consistently implied, if not confirmed, to have reincarnated into us in some manner. Fandaniel remembers many of his past lives, not just Hermes and Amon (which is what informs him of his exceptional levels of nihilism about Hermes original challenge/goals/beliefs). Gaia can remember both her prior life and her current one, Mitron is the one trying to shatter her memories of her current life because she's rejecting him even with those memories, and ultimately she chooses not to find out who she was before Mitron interfered with her life originally, which is unrelated to her Ancient/Reincarnative memories. The Echo is an explicit reincarnation deal, since it involves remembering things from your Ancient Soul. Souls in FFXIV explicitly have memories because memories are made of Aether, strong enough memories carry down over reincarnations and traumatic ones can create magical ptsd like effects (Echo Awakening Meteors), even if you have to be made aware of them/awaken them, and so long as they're not completely washed away/overwritten it's implied that they stick around more or less indefinitely (Fandaniel remembering many past lives, not just his current life and Hermes life as awakened by the Ascians). So Tenzen could be intentionally holding onto himself so that he can fight Koryu even as he reincarnates, especially since he does have the Echo which is just soul manipulation magic capabilities. The Tenzen Situation actually reminds me of the Avatar, in that there's a reincarnating Soul (The Avatar) with a literal continuity, to the point that when the prior Avatar dies a new one is born with their collective soul, but each Avatar is a distinct individual as part of that continuous soul. Which also fits with Fandaniel. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Apr 26, 2023 |
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Apr 26, 2023 02:47
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To prompt a different discussion, do you think we'll get Ancient Iegorhym showing up in the Normal Raid series for the final wing. It would potentially be appropriate as a thematic tie between her future failure (the Thirteenth) and her impact on Lahabrea.
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Apr 26, 2023 03:25
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big bug
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Apr 26, 2023 03:31
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