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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt
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Jobert
May 21, 2007
Come On!
College Slice

Google Jeb Bush posted:

personally i'm plotting to steal The Kilogram from that one lab in France

They actually fixed this just within the last few years: (https://www.nist.gov/si-redefinition/kilogram/kilogram-future)

"Starting on May 20, 2019, the kilogram is officially defined in terms of a quantum-mechanical quantity known as the Planck constant (h)"

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 12:11
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ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 23, 2024 16:17
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zoux
Apr 28, 2006

DeadlyMuffin posted:

Is there recent precedent for things like Zooey Zephyr being barred from the Montana house floor or the two Representatives in Tennessee being ejected?

https://twitter.com/AlKapDC/status/1651295037697687575

I was surprised this didn't get more ink, but the AZ lege actually removed a Qanon rep because she invited some crazy lady to testify for a loving hour at a committee hearing, accusing pretty much every state official of taking bribes from the Sinaloa Carte.

https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/1651571775031980032

The "It doesn't matter if DiFi resigns because the GOP wouldn't let them replace her on Judiciary anyway" talking point dies.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 14:44
  • Quote
Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.

 is it bloodlust to want someone to perish peacefully by natural causes and/or old age

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 14:49
  • Quote
Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
One of the major new studies about the weight loss drugs that was referenced in the WSJ article the other day about the Medicare rule against covering drugs used exclusively for weight loss possibly being repealed has come out. The other major one is supposed to finish in 2024.

The study was for Mounjaro, one of the three new drugs that were originally developed to treat diabetes, but have been tested or approved to treat obesity in the last year. It found that taking the maximum dose of the drug reduced bodyweight by between 16% and 22% (approximately 34 to 50 pounds for the average person in the study) over a 17-month period.

The maker of the drug says that based on these test results, they will be applying for fast-track FDA approval to use the drug to treat obesity in non-diabetic people this year.

Preliminary evidence in the other major study (which is of a different drug, but one that is similar to semaglutide) shows long-term heart benefits and similar weight loss results - meaning it will likely also be approved for weight loss in obese patients at risk of heart disease.

The drugs don't change your metabolism or cause any change in fat burning, but they help your body rapidly feel satisfied after a few hundred calories per meal and eliminate hunger pangs and the psychological desire to keep eating.

The shocking effectiveness of these drugs seems to support the idea that weight loss is not entirely about willpower and there are biological and hormonal aspects that make some people much more likely to be overweight. Obviously, willpower and not eating calories will work in reducing weight 100% of the time, but these drugs and research seem to prove that some people have a much easier time maintaining that willpower and lifestyle change due to biological factors.

quote:

Powerful new obesity drug poised to upend weight loss care

As a growing number of overweight Americans clamor for Ozempic and Wegovy — drugs touted by celebrities and on TikTok to pare pounds — an even more powerful obesity medicine is poised to upend treatment.

Tirzepatide, an Eli Lilly and Co. drug approved to treat type 2 diabetes under the brand name Mounjaro, helped people with the disease who were overweight or had obesity lose up to 16% of their body weight, or more than 34 pounds, over nearly 17 months, the company said on Thursday.

The late-stage study of the drug for weight loss adds to earlier evidence that similar participants without diabetes lost up to 22% of their body weight over that period with weekly injections of the drug. For a typical patient on the highest dose, that meant shedding more than 50 pounds.

Having diabetes makes it notoriously difficult to lose weight, said Dr. Nadia Ahmad, Lilly’s medical director of obesity clinical development, which means the recent results are especially significant. “We have not seen this degree of weight reduction,” she said.

Based on the new results, which have not yet been published in full, company officials said they will finalize an application to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for fast-track approval to sell tirzepatide for chronic weight management. A decision could come later this year. A company spokeswoman would not confirm whether the drug would be marketed for weight loss in the U.S. under a different brand name.

If approved for weight loss, tirzepatide could become the most effective drug to date in an arsenal of medications that are transforming the treatment of obesity, which affects more than 4 in 10 American adults and is linked to dozens of diseases that can lead to disability or death.

“If everybody who had obesity in this country lost 20% of their body weight, we would be taking patients off all of these medications for reflux, for diabetes, for hypertension,” said Dr. Caroline Apovian, a director of the Center for Weight Management and Wellness at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. “We would not be sending patients for stent replacement.”

Industry analysts predict that tirzepatide could become one of the top-selling drugs ever, with annual sales topping $50 billion. It is expected to outpace Novo Nordisk’s Ozempic — a diabetes drug used so commonly to shed pounds that comedian Jimmy Kimmel joked about it at the Oscars — and Wegovy, a version of the drug also known as semaglutide approved for weight loss in 2021. Together, those drugs made nearly $10 billion in 2022, with prescriptions continuing to soar, company reports show.

In separate trials, tirzepatide has resulted in greater weight loss than semaglutide, whose users shed about 15% of their body weight over 16 months. A head-to-head trial comparing the two drugs is planned.

Mounjaro was first approved to treat diabetes last year. Since then, thousands of patients have obtained the drug from doctors and telehealth providers who prescribed it “off-label” to help them slim down.

In California, Matthew Barlow, a 48-year-old health technology executive, said he has lost more than 100 pounds since November by using Mounjaro and changing his diet.

“Psychologically, you don’t want to eat,” said Barlow. “Now I can eat two bites of a dessert and be satisfied.”

Rather than relying solely on diet, exercise and willpower to reduce weight, tirzepatide and other new drugs target the digestive and chemical pathways that underlie obesity, suppressing appetite and blunting cravings for food.

“They have entirely changed the landscape,” said Dr. Amy Rothberg, a University of Michigan endocrinologist who directs a virtual weight loss and diabetes program.

Research has shown that with diet and exercise alone, about a third of people will lose 5% or more of their body weight, said Dr. Louis Aronne, director of the Comprehensive Weight Control Center at Weill Cornell Medicine. In the latest tirzepatide trial, more than 86% of patients using the highest dose of the drug lost at least 5% of their body weight. More than half on that dose lost at least 15%, the company said.

The obesity medications help overcome a biological mechanism that kicks in when people diet, triggering a coordinated effort by the body to prevent weight loss.

“That is a real physical phenomenon,” Aronne said. “There are a number of hormones that respond to reduced calorie intake.”

Ozempic and Wegovy are two versions of semaglutide. That drug mimics a key gut hormone, known as GLP-1, that is activated after people eat, boosting the release of insulin and slowing release of sugar from the liver. It delays digestion and reduces appetite, making people feel full longer.

Tirzepatide is the first drug that uses the action of two hormones, GLP-1 and GIP, for greater effects. It also targets the chemical signals sent from the gut to the brain, curbing cravings and thoughts of food.

Though the drugs appear safe, they can cause side effects, some serious. Most common reactions include diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, constipation and stomach pain. Some users have developed pancreatitis or inflammation of the pancreas, others have had gallbladder problems. Mounjaro’s product description warns that it could cause thyroid tumors, including cancer.

There are other downsides: Versions of semaglutide have been on the market for several years, but the long-term effects of taking drugs that override human metabolism are not yet clear. Early evidence suggests that when people stop taking the medications, they gain the weight back.

Plus, the medications are expensive — and in recent months, hard to get because of intermittent shortages. Wegovy is priced at about $1,300 a month. Mounjaro used for diabetes starts at about $1,000 per month.

Apovian said that only about 20% to 30% of patients with private insurance in her practice find the medications are covered. Some insurers who previously paid for the drugs are enacting new rules, requiring six months of documented lifestyle changes or a certain amount of weight loss for continued coverage. Medicare is largely prohibited from paying for weight-loss drugs, though there have been efforts by drugmakers and advocates for Congress to change that.

Still, experts say that the striking effects of tirzepatide — along with Ozempic, Wegovy and other drugs — underscore that losing weight is not merely a matter of willpower. Like high blood pressure, which affects about half of U.S. adults and is managed with medication, obesity should be viewed as a chronic disease, not a character flaw, Aronne emphasized.

It remains to be seen what effect new drug treatments will have on pervasive bias against people with obesity, said Rebecca Puhl, a professor in the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Health, who studies weight stigma. U.S. culture has “deep-rooted beliefs about body weight and physical appearance” that are hard to change, she said.

“Weight stigma could persist or worsen if taking medication is equated with ‘taking the easy way out’ or ‘not trying hard enough,’” she said.

https://apnews.com/article/mounjaro-wegovy-ozempic-obesity-weight-loss-bd0e037cc5981513487260d40636752a

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Apr 27, 2023

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 14:49
  • Quote
the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

One of the major new studies about the weight loss drugs that was referenced in the WSJ article the other day about the Medicare rule against covering drugs used exclusively for weight loss possibly being repealed has come out. The other major one is supposed to finish in 2024.

The study was for Mounjaro, one of the three new drugs that were originally developed to treat diabetes, but have been tested or approved to treat obesity in the last year. It found that taking the maximum dose of the drug reduced bodyweight by between 16% and 22% (approximately 34 to 50 pounds for the average person in the study) over a 17-month period.

The maker of the drug says that based on these test results, they will be applying for fast-track FDA approval to use the drug to treat obesity in non-diabetic people this year.

Preliminary evidence in the other major study (which is of a different drug, but one that is similar to semaglutide) shows long-term heart benefits and similar weight loss results - meaning it will likely also be approved for weight loss in obese patients at risk of heart disease.

The drugs don't change your metabolism or cause any change in fat burning, but they help your body rapidly feel satisfied after a few hundred calories per meal and eliminate hunger pangs and the psychological desire to keep eating.

The shocking effectiveness of these drugs seems to support the idea that weight loss is not entirely about willpower and there are biological and hormonal aspects that make some people much more likely to be overweight. Obviously, willpower and not eating calories will work in reducing weight 100% of the time, but these drugs and research seem to prove that some people have a much easier time maintaining that willpower and lifestyle change due to biological factors.

https://apnews.com/article/mounjaro-wegovy-ozempic-obesity-weight-loss-bd0e037cc5981513487260d40636752a

Well sign me the gently caress up.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 15:41
  • Quote
Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

the_steve posted:

Well sign me the gently caress up.

Mounjaro is not approved for weight loss in non-diabetics yet.

There are other similar drugs that were approved last year (Wegovy and Ozempic). If you have a BMI over 30, then you can likely get it prescribed. Only about 30% of insurers cover it for people without diabetes, though.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 15:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster
Jerry Springer has died.

The cause of death is unknown, but his family said he died "peacefully at home after a brief illness."

He was 79.

He was the former Mayor of Cincinnati and ran for Governor of Ohio, but his campaign was derailed after it was revealed he had hired a prostitute (he was discovered because he paid her with a check).

But, obviously, he was most famous for his long-running TV show.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1651596764456054785

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 15:56
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Youremother
Dec 26, 2011

MORT

Youremother posted:

I wonder what they were afraid of the special master discovering that caused them to fold so hard.

The answer, it turns out, was that they didn't want anybody reading Tucker's texts:

quote:

On Eve of Trial, Discovery of Carlson Texts Set Off Crisis Atop Fox
Private messages sent by Tucker Carlson that had been redacted in legal filings showed him making highly offensive remarks that went beyond the comments of his prime-time show.

The day before Dominion Voting Systems’ defamation trial against Fox News was set to begin in a Delaware courthouse, the Fox board of directors and top executives made a startling discovery that helped lead to the breaking point between the network and Tucker Carlson, one of its top stars.

Private messages sent by Mr. Carlson that had been redacted in legal filings showed him making highly offensive and crude remarks that went beyond the inflammatory, often racist comments of his prime-time show and anything disclosed in the lead-up to the trial.

Despite the fact that Fox’s trial lawyers had these messages for months, the board and some senior executives were now learning about their details for the first time, setting off a crisis at the highest level of the company, according to two people with knowledge of the discussions.

The discovery added pressure on the Fox leadership as it sought to find a way to avoid a trial where Mr. Carlson — not to mention so many others at the network — would be questioned about the contents of the private messages they exchanged in the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election.

Two days after the board’s discovery, Fox settled that case for $787.5 million, believed to be the highest for a defamation trial.

Several people with knowledge of Fox’s discussions said the redacted messages were a catalyst for one of the most momentous decisions Fox and its leaders — the father-son team of Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch — had made in years: to sever ties with the host of their highest-rated and highly profitable prime-time program and a face of the network in the Trump era.

The company dismissed him on Monday, with a phone call from Suzanne Scott, the chief executive of Fox News Media.

In the end, according to one of the people with knowledge of the internal discussions, Lachlan Murdoch viewed forcing out Mr. Carlson as a “business decision,” just as he did the Dominion settlement.

Fox had no comment beyond its initial statement announcing “Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways.”

Mr. Carlson and Bryan Freedman, a lawyer representing him, did not respond to requests for comment. On Wednesday night, Mr. Carlson posted a video on Twitter, speaking publicly for the first time since getting pushed out. Mr. Carlson did not address his exit from Fox, but railed against “completely irrelevant” debates on TV and said: “Both political parties and their donors have reached consensus on what benefits them and they actively collude to shut down any conversation about it.”

He added: “When honest people say what’s true, calmly and without embarrassment, they become powerful. At the same time, the liars who have been trying to silence them shrink. They become weaker.”

It is unclear why the Fox board and other executives did not know about the contents of the redacted messages until just before the trial, which was focused on whether Fox News had knowingly aired false claims about Dominion and its voting machines after the 2020 election. Unredacted portions of the documents, including some in which Mr. Carlson spoke derisively about former President Donald J. Trump, were widely reported on in the weeks before the trial.

The board considered using an outside law firm to investigate the top-rated host, concerned about the harm Mr. Carlson’s behavior might cause even beyond the Dominion case, the two people said.

By the time the board did see the redacted material, Lachlan Murdoch was already moving to find an out-of-court accommodation with Dominion, having given his negotiators the go-ahead to increase Fox’s offer to the company, according to one of the people briefed on the discussions.

Rupert Murdoch is wearing glasses and a blue shirt and stands next to his son Lachlan, who is wearing a dark T-shirt.
Over the past two years, Rupert Murdoch, left, and his son Lachlan began to lose patience with Mr. Carlson, said people familiar with their complaints.

Company executives have indicated that a variety of factors fed into the decision to fire Mr. Carlson after Fox stood by him for years as he drew protest and advertiser boycotts for trafficking in conspiracy theories and narratives of white grievance. But they acknowledge that the discovery of what was in the redacted text messages was an important factor in his ultimate dismissal.

The role that the messages — produced in the Dominion discovery process — played in helping to end Mr. Carlson’s career at Fox demonstrates the severity of the damage the suit inflicted on the company. Fox was battered repeatedly by damaging disclosures as it proceeded to trial. If it had settled far earlier in the process, the company could have avoided having to hand over Mr. Carlson’s messages and those of others, including from the personal accounts of both Murdochs.

Over the past two years, the Murdochs’ patience began to wear thin, said people familiar with their complaints. Mr. Carlson emerged as an almost unaccountable figure who drew new headaches with conspiracy theory programming that included falsely portraying the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol as possibly orchestrated by the federal government. Then, as the Dominion case headed to trial, he told his audience last month that the rioting was, in fact, a peaceful exercise, using security footage that the Republican Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, had given to Mr. Carlson exclusively.

Although statements made on his show represented only a small piece of the Dominion lawsuit, the disclosures related to his messages took on an outsize role and added to the company’s public relations woes.

It is notable that even when compared with the extreme rhetoric Mr. Carlson was allowed to use on air, the messages released publicly had the ability to shock. In one, he referred to the lawyer Sidney Powell, a major proponent of the debunked theory that the Dominion machines switched votes, with a crude and misogynistic slur. Amid the cache of redacted messages was one in which he used a similar vulgarity to describe a senior Fox News executive, The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday.

One person briefed on the contents of the redacted material said one of the messages was particularly offensive, adding to the concern at the top of the company. The Times has not seen the contents of the message.

Dominion lawyers planned to press the judge about using the contents of the redacted messages in their questioning of Mr. Carlson. The lawyers prepped dozens of potential questions for the host, along with hypothetical rejoinders they thought Mr. Carlson might use to deflect the toughest of them. And they planned to pin him down on the ones that were most demeaning toward women. The two sides had different views of whether much or any of Mr. Carlson’s unredacted messages would be seen in court — a difference that, at trial, would have been sorted by the presiding judge, Eric M. Davis of Delaware Superior Court.

The settlement of the Dominion case, however, has not ended the threat posed by the messages. The New York Times, The Associated Press and National Public Radio have challenged the redactions, meaning they could still become public.

And Mr. Carlson’s indiscretion has exposed him further. Given how polarizing he has been, both inside and outside Fox News, more evidence of embarrassing and inappropriate conduct could emerge. In video obtained by The Times, for instance, Mr. Carlson is shown off camera discussing his “postmenopausal fans” and whether they will approve of how he looks on the air. In another video, he is overheard describing a woman he finds “yummy.”

His texts could also factor in a pending defamation suit that the software company Smartmatic — often paired with Dominion in the wildest versions of the stolen-election conspiracy theory — has brought against Fox, as well as in a suit brought by a former Carlson producer, Abby Grossberg, alleging a hostile and discriminatory work environment.

All this was in the mix when the network finally cut Mr. Carlson’s program this week, according to several people familiar with the internal discussions. And, the end of his run followed a pattern.

His unceremonious departure made Mr. Carlson the latest in a list of prominent hosts and executives Fox has decided to show the door once the Murdochs concluded they were no longer worth the trouble: Glenn Beck (2011), Sarah Palin (2013), Roger Ailes, the network’s co-founder (2016) and Bill O’Reilly (2017).

Despite the political clout he could exercise and the money his top-rated show brought in for the network, ultimately, Mr. Carlson learned that he served at the pleasure of the Murdochs.

Their decision in the end was as swift and unsentimental as the two-paragraph statement the network sent in announcing his dismissal: “We thank him for his service.”
* # ? Apr 27, 2023 15:57
  • Quote
Enver Zogha
Nov 12, 2008

The modern revisionists and reactionaries call us Stalinists, thinking that they insult us and, in fact, that is what they have in mind. But, on the contrary, they glorify us with this epithet; it is an honor for us to be Stalinists.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

[Jerry Springer] ran for Governor of Ohio, but his campaign was derailed after it was revealed he had hired a prostitute (he was discovered because he paid her with a check).
Worth noting the ad he made while running for governor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzT4dOyCMg0

It's pretty surprising to see a politician devote an entire ad to "yeah I did it and hoped I wouldn't get caught" although his attempt to pivot this into "me telling you this is a reason to vote for me" evidently wasn't enough.

Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Apr 27, 2023

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:08
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FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



 The more damning thing to me is that the board somehow only found out about Tucker’s bad texts days before trial

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:08
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Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
I didn't realize the whole timeline of the Springer solicitation thing, that it had happened before he had taken any office and 11 years before that gubernatorial campaign. Kind of crazy what people used to care about; Florida's first district just reelected their congressman who paid for sex with underage girls on Venmo by a 2-1 margin.

I didn't realize how young he was as Mayor (took office at 32) and that he got 45% in a US House race in 1970 when he was just 25. Also, I had heard it before, but forgotten; he was born in a London tube station during the Blitz. What an interesting dude. His show was stupid and probably somewhat deleterious to our culture but I'd be lying if I said I was never entertained by it. I never would've guessed it was still on until just five years ago.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:19
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BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

the_steve posted:

Well sign me the gently caress up.

There was a decent Science Vs. episode on Ozempic the other day. It apparently does actually work! (I know I'm just parroting the article)

But the biggest catch is that... you have to keep taking it to keep the weight off. I think all patients who stopped regained the weight. I mean hopefully it would establish some better habits but it didn't seem to be the case.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:32
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Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

BonoMan posted:

There was a decent Science Vs. episode on Ozempic the other day. It apparently does actually work! (I know I'm just parroting the article)

But the biggest catch is that... you have to keep taking it to keep the weight off. I think all patients who stopped regained the weight. I mean hopefully it would establish some better habits but it didn't seem to be the case.

Dr. Mike also had a video about it and was concerned that he is seeing people who are healthy coming in and asking for it. That like any medication it comes with risk.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:34
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Judgy Fucker
Mar 24, 2006

 I can attest to Ozempic working (I am not diabetic). It just makes you not want to eat. It's a pretty odd sensation; like, I never really feel nauseated, but it does make food seem really, really unappetizing. You eat because you know you need to and that's it.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:41
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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

Judgy Fucker posted:

I can attest to Ozempic working (I am not diabetic). It just makes you not want to eat. It's a pretty odd sensation; like, I never really feel nauseated, but it does make food seem really, really unappetizing. You eat because you know you need to and that's it.

It is supposed to last a week per dose. Do you feel like it has the same effect consistently across the entire week or does it feel like it starts fading a bit after 4 or 5 days? How long have you been taking it and did you make any major lifestyle changes in conjunction with taking it or stay more or less the same? Do you ever have any issues with not eating enough and feeling tired?

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:47
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zoux
Apr 28, 2006

 Pretrial detention motion from the feds in the case of the Groyper Leaker and oops, looks like the right wing dipshits who tried to valorize him as a noble whistleblower might've been out over their skis a bit

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1651407473520136192

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:50
  • Quote
Gyges
Aug 4, 2004

NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

BonoMan posted:

There was a decent Science Vs. episode on Ozempic the other day. It apparently does actually work! (I know I'm just parroting the article)

But the biggest catch is that... you have to keep taking it to keep the weight off. I think all patients who stopped regained the weight. I mean hopefully it would establish some better habits but it didn't seem to be the case.

If they were just testing the efficacy of the drug, wouldn't they encourage people in the trial not to additionally adopt known weight loss changes such as significant dietary or exercise regimes? So, if we know it's just a temporary "hack" to help you make changes it should still be effective in helping you solidify a diet/lifestyle change.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:50
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PharmerBoy
Jul 21, 2008
 Something I had never considered until the proximity of the Fox settlement and now the Disney/Florida lawsuit: the state doesn't have the option of settling in something like this do they?

If FL officials are really turning against DeSantis (or say even in a separate hypothetical of a law passed by a previous opposite administration) the state can't just say the other side is right and remove the law without an additional act of congress & executive. Best they can do is just fail to fund a defense and let the other side run the case where they want, which is its own set of dangers.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:52
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cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

BonoMan posted:

There was a decent Science Vs. episode on Ozempic the other day. It apparently does actually work! (I know I'm just parroting the article)

But the biggest catch is that... you have to keep taking it to keep the weight off. I think all patients who stopped regained the weight. I mean hopefully it would establish some better habits but it didn't seem to be the case.
That doesn't mean its not worth it though. Tendency towards obesity doesn't ever go away, and it's wrapped up with everything else in metabolic syndrome (diabetes, heart disease, etc). Ozempic was orginally a diabetes drug, and those already have to be taken indefinitely. Sans intervention, someone who is a candidate for Ozempic is almost certainly going to develop type 2 diabetes eventually, anyway - and so going on a drug like Ozempic or metformin would eventually become necessary anyway.

A drug like Ozempic that regulates insulin and causes weight loss can actually prevent this in the first place, which is very attractive considering how diabetes and central obesity just gently caress everything up. Prevention is a huge quality of life and cost savings - not just in future medical care, but also reduced disability, etc.

Gyges posted:

If they were just testing the efficacy of the drug, wouldn't they encourage people in the trial not to additionally adopt known weight loss changes such as significant dietary or exercise regimes? So, if we know it's just a temporary "hack" to help you make changes it should still be effective in helping you solidify a diet/lifestyle change.
For most people, dietary and exercise changes just don't work that well (partially because these changes are hard to adhere to). Most weight loss just comes back.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:54
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Judgy Fucker
Mar 24, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It is supposed to last a week per dose. Do you feel like it has the same effect consistently across the entire week or does it feel like it starts fading a bit after 4 or 5 days? How long have you been taking it and did you make any major lifestyle changes in conjunction with taking it or stay more or less the same? Do you ever have any issues with not eating enough and feeling tired?

The effect definitely fades over the course of the week, yes. Your body also adjusts to it so you ramp up the dosage over time (you start at .25 mL/injection, I'm about to graduate to 1 mL, I believe the max recommended is 2 mL). I've been taking it for a few months and have tried some lifestyle changes like counting points using a free dieting app, but work and kids make that stuff pretty hard sometimes. As far as feeling fatigued from not eating enough, hard to say since if I'm tired (I am, all the time) it's likely more from working two jobs and having two young kids.

I really have not experienced any negative side effects from its use that I am aware of.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:54
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Automata 10 Pack
Jun 21, 2007

Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette

Judgy Fucker posted:

I can attest to Ozempic working (I am not diabetic). It just makes you not want to eat. It's a pretty odd sensation; like, I never really feel nauseated, but it does make food seem really, really unappetizing. You eat because you know you need to and that's it.
Is there a drug that does the opposite? My partner has this problem and as someone who likes to cook it's a bummer.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:57
  • Quote
Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

BonoMan posted:

There was a decent Science Vs. episode on Ozempic the other day. It apparently does actually work! (I know I'm just parroting the article)

But the biggest catch is that... you have to keep taking it to keep the weight off. I think all patients who stopped regained the weight. I mean hopefully it would establish some better habits but it didn't seem to be the case.
Yeah, but the fact that the drug works, and how it works, kind of suggests that "better habits" are not really the product of some individual exertion of will but rather just the chemical processes in your brain.

I went through some weird health stuff last year, some combination of anxiety, depression and a weird (probably covid induced, and now cleared up) thyroid function issue, with some medication adjustments thrown in there, and the end result was my hunger response being extremely suppressed. I still got hungry, and I could eat fine, but if I was sated the idea of eating more was actively unpleasant. Very strange sensation for a guy who has always been down for seconds. I feel like that's probably what being on one of those drugs is like. It was really, really easy to lose weight.

There's also not really anything wrong with taking a medication indefinitely. The studies Leon is citing, suggesting that the weight loss has a positive effect on health outcomes, might mean you actually end up taking less meds over the course of your life. Yes, the drugs are fantastically expensive right now, but once their patents start expiring they're practically gonna be putting this poo poo in the drinking water.

Automata 10 Pack posted:

Is there a drug that does the opposite? My partner has this problem and as someone who likes to cook it's a bummer.
Weed, duh.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 16:59
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zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Automata 10 Pack posted:

Is there a drug that does the opposite? My partner has this problem and as someone who likes to cook it's a bummer.

Yes sir, and it comes from the earth itself. You don't even need a scrip! Well, in recreational states anyway.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

cat botherer posted:

Sans intervention, someone who is a candidate for Ozempic is almost certainly going to develop type 2 diabetes eventually, anyway - and so going on a drug like Ozempic or metformin would eventually become necessary anyway.

Not necessarily. Only about 11% of Americans have diabetes and about 60% of the country is overweight. According to Harvard Medical School, about 30% of overweight people end up with diabetes at some point in their lives.

That's a large chunk, but not exactly "almost certainly will" develop type 2 diabetes.

If about 70% of overweight people wouldn't end up with type 2 diabetes either way, then it doesn't necessarily make it cost-effective as a preventative. Once the technology advances and makes it cheaper to manufacture and the eventual expiration of the patent, it might make more sense from a cost perspective. But, right now, the drug is too new, expensive, and in short supply for it to make sense to give to everyone as a preventative.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:00
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Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004

Automata 10 Pack posted:

Is there a drug that does the opposite? My partner has this problem and as someone who likes to cook it's a bummer.

THC gummies or Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:01
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PharmerBoy
Jul 21, 2008
 Oddly enough, yes. It's pharmaceutically refined CBD, so it's playing off the idea that marijuana gives you the munchies. Initial use case was for cancer patients who have no appetite and are losing too much weight.

edit, super loving beaten

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:01
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GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

the_steve posted:

Well sign me the gently caress up.

I started it recently and am quite hopeful. They have a very slow ramp up time, so I'm two months in and it will still by a while before I'm using the final, genuinely effective dose, but I have already been seeing improvements. Not only am I less hungry, but overeating feels... almost unpleasant? Like even when I was losing weight before, there was always, always that guilty pleasure of throwing an entire pizza down my stomach in one go - now it only takes like four slices before I think "I don't really want any more, maybe I'll save this for later".

It's honestly kind of magical.

BonoMan posted:

There was a decent Science Vs. episode on Ozempic the other day. It apparently does actually work! (I know I'm just parroting the article)

But the biggest catch is that... you have to keep taking it to keep the weight off. I think all patients who stopped regained the weight. I mean hopefully it would establish some better habits but it didn't seem to be the case.

The habits it establishes are actually the exact problem, there. When you take them, you can easily settle into a habit of "only eat when hungry, and only eat as much as it takes to not be hungry", which is an incredible way to lose weight when you don't get hungry often and feel satiated sooner when you eat.

If you stop taking the meds, the habits you have built for your successful weight loss basically immediately transition into habits that will cause massive weight gain.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Not necessarily. Only about 11% of Americans have diabetes and about 60% of the country is overweight. According to Harvard Medical School, about 30% of overweight people end up with diabetes at some point in their lives.

We're up to over 70% overweight now, actually, your numbers are a bit out of date. Unless you meant straight up obesity, which is still only a bit above 40%.

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Apr 27, 2023

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:03
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Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Automata 10 Pack posted:

Is there a drug that does the opposite? My partner has this problem and as someone who likes to cook it's a bummer.

My partner swims, and on days she does I can hardly make enough food. Swimming, that's a good trick!

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:10
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Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
I think it's good that people are going to be better able to lose weight if they want - I've been a lot of different weights and less weight definitely feels better. Our definitions of overweight and obese are pretty arbitrary, though. Once you get to a point where 72% of people are "abnormal" it's time to start rethinking what normal is. These definitions are not based on actual health outcomes, they're based on a chart from the 1830s.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:10
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Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
The myth that it's just a simple matter of willpower when it comes to weight loss has needed to die for decades and it still needs to die now.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:11
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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

GlyphGryph posted:

We're up to over 70% overweight now, actually, your numbers are a bit out of date. Unless you meant straight up obesity, which is still only a bit above 40%.

Yep. You're right. I remember the phrase they used was generally "two-thirds" of Americans and was estimating in the 60's. But, it looks like it is around 72% as of 2022 according to the CDC.

Still, it's "only" about 30% of overweight people who will end up with diabetes at some point.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:13
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cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Not necessarily. Only about 11% of Americans have diabetes and about 60% of the country is overweight. According to Harvard Medical School, about 30% of overweight people end up with diabetes at some point in their lives.

That's a large chunk, but not exactly "almost certainly will" develop type 2 diabetes.

If about 70% of overweight people wouldn't end up with type 2 diabetes either way, then it doesn't necessarily make it cost-effective as a preventative. Once the technology advances and makes it cheaper to manufacture and the eventual expiration of the patent, it might make more sense from a cost perspective. But, right now, the drug is too new, expensive, and in short supply for it to make sense to give to everyone as a preventative.
That's "overweight," not obese, although "almost certainly" was dumb verbiage on my part. The health effects of being overweight aren't that large. It's only when you ramp up into obesity that everything becomes rapidly worse:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3066828/

quote:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that 32% of white and 53% of black women are obese. Women with a body mass index (BMI) of 30 kg/m2 have a 28 times greater risk of developing diabetes than do women of normal weight. The risk of diabetes is 93 times greater if the BMI is 35 kg/m2.

Obese people do have a greater chance than not of eventually developing diabetes. Preventing this is critical, and I think outweighs the cost of a drug or its usual side effects, or the risk that it wasn't actually necessary. Even barring diabetes, obesity is independently associated with all kinds of bad outcomes, even things like a much higher risk of workplace accidents, and joint problems.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:15
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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

zoux posted:

Pretrial detention motion from the feds in the case of the Groyper Leaker and oops, looks like the right wing dipshits who tried to valorize him as a noble whistleblower might've been out over their skis a bit

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1651407473520136192

I think those are all reasons the right wing will love him more.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:16
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zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Zamujasa posted:

The myth that it's just a simple matter of willpower when it comes to weight loss has needed to die for decades and it still needs to die now.

Maybe this is because of my own personal failings, but I'm coming around on the idea that "willpower" is something like height or hair color, that if you don't have it you can't get it. And given obesity rates and abysmal success rates of non-medical obesity interventions, most people don't have it.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:17
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Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
Even then it's not merely will, it's a whole host of factors, and not always stuff the person in question can control for. There's not a lot an individual person can do to counter pretty much every food in the states being processed and stuffed full of corn syrup.

That's before you get into how different people's bodies work. Some people can eat tons of food with minimal exercise and still not gain a lot of weight, some can eat little and still gain weight. Bodies are hosed up and weird.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:20
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Youremother
Dec 26, 2011

MORT

 Willpower can be arbitrary between different things as well. I am aware this is anecdotal but I have had an easier time stopping taking drugs and drinking than I have ever trying to lose weight. This is also because I don't really care about being fat but it was becoming clear I needed to stop taking recreational substances. The CICO thing, although thermodynamically true, has always been super reductionist when it comes to what is healthiest for people.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:21
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Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

zoux posted:

Maybe this is because of my own personal failings, but I'm coming around on the idea that "willpower" is something like height or hair color, that if you don't have it you can't get it. And given obesity rates and abysmal success rates of non-medical obesity interventions, most people don't have it.
I think that as neuroscience advances we will ultimately find that almost nothing anybody does is ever actually their fault. Like, including things that we would all consider inexcusable and indefensible with our current understanding of the brain.

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:22
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Leon Trotsky 2012
Aug 27, 2009

YOU CAN TRUST ME!*


*Israeli Government-affiliated poster

zoux posted:

Maybe this is because of my own personal failings, but I'm coming around on the idea that "willpower" is something like height or hair color, that if you don't have it you can't get it. And given obesity rates and abysmal success rates of non-medical obesity interventions, most people don't have it.

It's one of those things like the connection between drugs and poverty. Technically, literally anyone can reduce the amount of calories they intake unless someone is force-feeding you. Similarly, nobody is going around offering drugs to everyone who falls below the poverty line. It's not a 1:1 ratio and anyone can resist drugs or lower their caloric intake, but biology and society can stack the deck so far in favor of the "overeat" or "do drugs" side, that a large amount of people are just not going to ever be able to maintain the discipline due to how their lives and biology are set up - even if they technically are able to.

We have pretty clear evidence that some people do have "addictive personalities" on a biological level when it comes to drugs and alcohol. The recent evidence seems to indicate that there is a similar mechanism for obesity where it is just inherently easy for some people and other people require constant vigilance that they will likely never be able to achieve 100% of the time, so they will most likely end up failing to adhere to it unless there is some kind of major outside intervention. Same thing with "fat camp" or "weight loss retreats" where everyone comes out having lost weight, but very few people can keep that up after the outside pressure and reorganized environment are gone.

Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Apr 27, 2023

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:24
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cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Mellow Seas posted:

I think that as neuroscience advances we will ultimately find that almost nothing anybody does is ever actually their fault. Like, including things that we would all consider inexcusable and indefensible with our current understanding of the brain.
Unironically this. We are far too obsessed with attributing population-level problems to individual moral failings. It's a major problem for obesity treatment. Obsesity interventions are vastly underused, even when they are indicated. Despite being a serious health condition, the sum of medical intervention most obese people get is basically their doctor saying "just put down the fork lol."

vvv Oh yeah I got that.

cat botherer fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Apr 27, 2023

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:26
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# ? May 23, 2024 16:17
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Mellow Seas
Oct 9, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
^^^^ I also meant it unironically!

Youremother posted:

The CICO thing, although thermodynamically true, has always been super reductionist when it comes to what is healthiest for people.
“It’s simple, fatty - just burn more calories than you take in! The calories are right on the food packaging.”

“Oh, okay. How do I measure the calories out?”

“Here’s a complex formula that varies wildly person by person, and is actually affected by the amount that you eat in unpredictable ways. It’s so simple!

* # ? Apr 27, 2023 17:26
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