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I'm very interested to learn about UPS optimization, my curreny py base is becoming quite big and it's been a while since I've had a solid 60 ups. Right now it's usually between 55-60 depending on where on the map I am. Now I've got a new PC coming soon, which should help a lot, but I'm still interested to know how to look for bottlenecks, both with mods that I'm using or specific entities. So far the F4 Debug screen does nothing but confuse me. I took a quick look at the benchmarking, but how do I measure differences if I don't even know where to start replacing things in my current save to compare. Plus I assume a py base, which lots of moving parts but mostly lot output is very different compared to a more vanilla save.
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Apr 25, 2023 16:35
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Normally you start your UPS optimisation by hitting f4 for the debug options, and looking at which parts of the game are hitting your base the hardest.
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Apr 25, 2023 18:30
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Freaksaus posted:I'm very interested to learn about UPS optimization, my curreny py base is becoming quite big and it's been a while since I've had a solid 60 ups. Right now it's usually between 55-60 depending on where on the map I am. It's easy to profile the UPS cost of mods by using debug options, yeah. Getting better hardware is always good too, of course. As far as how to build a base so that the simulation is less computationally intensive to run... pyanodons is gonna make that hard  I haven't played it myself, but it looks like there would be a lot of reprocessing of materials.I'm happy to answer questions about how a factory can be built in a UPS optimized way in the base game though. I assume a lot of it would apply in pyanodons, but I can't say what's different.
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Apr 25, 2023 21:56
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That fella who made the video with a base with trains unloading via rapid deceleration and the very impressive nuclear setup, he’s doing a seablock run.
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Apr 26, 2023 13:13
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Freaksaus posted:I'm very interested to learn about UPS optimization, . So far the F4 Debug screen does nothing but confuse me. The "Update" section is what you should be concerned with. Basically, you have 16ms to "spend" to keep the game at 60ups. The numbers next to each are those ms as ( current/high/low ) the ones next to Update is the total and everything below is the breakdown. At a glance you can see if a particular mod or script is eating up too many of those ms. But its a balance between the games programming and you cpu/ram.
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Apr 26, 2023 13:52
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What are you guys' favorite vanilla mall blueprints? I've been looking around for one, but can't seem to find one that's got all the necessities, instead only seeming to find ones that have early-mid game stuff.
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Apr 26, 2023 23:15
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Chakan posted:That fella who made the video with a base with trains unloading via rapid deceleration and the very impressive nuclear setup, he’s doing a seablock run.  I like how the poll he ran had an option for Pyanodon's, with the disclaimer that he still wouldn't do it even if it won. I guess even Dosh has his limits.
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Apr 26, 2023 23:42
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Chakan posted:That fella who made the video with a base with trains unloading via rapid deceleration and the very impressive nuclear setup, he’s doing a seablock run. What fellar would that be?
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Apr 27, 2023 00:26
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goodness posted:What fellar would that be? DoshDoshington, he's a computer engineer and it shows in the insane combinator setups he often uses in his bases. He's also one of the few Factorio Youtubers who actually understands editing rather than dumping 8 hour-long VODs that are 90% dead air. https://www.youtube.com/@DoshDoshington
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Apr 27, 2023 00:38
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Finally got spaceship tech at 132 hours, but we're probably... 10 hours from building our first spaceship? The one spaceship we have was salvage we found somewhere. We set up a space elevator today and it's a game changer. Last time we did this mod setup it didn't have space elevators. Unless I'm missing something, space elevators feel like they trivialize power needs on your home planet, or any planet you're willing to set one up. 
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Apr 27, 2023 06:23
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neogeo0823 posted:What are you guys' favorite vanilla mall blueprints? I've been looking around for one, but can't seem to find one that's got all the necessities, instead only seeming to find ones that have early-mid game stuff. Nilaus has some good "manufacturing hubs" from his masterclass series. Not every mall is going to suit your needs perfectly, but his are well thought out and adaptable.
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Apr 27, 2023 13:35
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Majere posted:Nilaus has some good "manufacturing hubs" from his masterclass series. Not every mall is going to suit your needs perfectly, but his are well thought out and adaptable. Nilaus' builds are all clean and elegant, even if he is a big whiny baby.
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Apr 27, 2023 14:53
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Bloody Pom posted:DoshDoshington, he's a computer engineer and it shows in the insane combinator setups he often uses in his bases. He's also one of the few Factorio Youtubers who actually understands editing rather than dumping 8 hour-long VODs that are 90% dead air. He had a Space Exploration video that was really good (and yes, well edited to only show the interesting stuff), I look forward to his seablock one.
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Apr 27, 2023 15:33
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Chainclaw posted:Finally got spaceship tech at 132 hours, but we're probably... 10 hours from building our first spaceship? The one spaceship we have was salvage we found somewhere. Once you are at space elevator tech power generation is more or less trivial in the solar system, probably by design, because the power requirements get worse!
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Apr 27, 2023 18:23
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neogeo0823 posted:What are you guys' favorite vanilla mall blueprints? I've been looking around for one, but can't seem to find one that's got all the necessities, instead only seeming to find ones that have early-mid game stuff. Pre- or post-robots? Because once I have enough logistics bots I just make an area with a bunch of assemblers that build all the stuff I need.
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Apr 27, 2023 18:37
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Someone posted this on the discord recently. That or something like it should be good enough to get you to bots I'd think.
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Apr 27, 2023 20:45
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Ooh, what are those staircase-looking splitter setups? I've been playing this again recently and re-learning a lot of stuff from scratch.
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Apr 27, 2023 21:30
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GetDunked posted:Ooh, what are those staircase-looking splitter setups? I've been playing this again recently and re-learning a lot of stuff from scratch. You set the splitters with output priority to push materials to the side of the bus that you are pulling materials from, with the intent to keep the belt to the right full for the feeds into whatever you are splitting material off to.
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Apr 27, 2023 21:40
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GetDunked posted:Ooh, what are those staircase-looking splitter setups? I've been playing this again recently and re-learning a lot of stuff from scratch. They're inefficient and a bandaid for poor demand planning
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Apr 27, 2023 21:52
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M_Gargantua posted:They're inefficient and a bandaid for poor demand planning You mean an inefficient but very simple way to balance resources with minimal effort and easy expansion.
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Apr 27, 2023 21:54
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I've switched to using tons of splitters with filters and priorities everywhere and it has helped cure a lot of weird bottle necks
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Apr 27, 2023 21:57
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Splitter stacks like that are fine, everything gets up to half a belt of input (even if it's right after something else that's also pulling half a belt of input). Or if you also set output priority on the actual splitting-off splitter, a whole belt of input. You should be trimming off the outer belts of the bus periodically though, otherwise it's easy to think you have more of a resource available than you actually do. If you're feeding it into an intermediate that you expect to be in constant production (like gears or circuits), then those outer belts are going to be empty unless everything's backed up, so trim them off instead of carrying empty belts forwards.
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Apr 27, 2023 22:53
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M_Gargantua posted:They're inefficient and a bandaid for poor demand planning Technically correct! Although a main bus is pretty much an admission that you're not going to plan for demand. Even eight blue belts of copper on a main bus is ridiculously low in a save where you want to launch more than one rocket. But that's okay, because the main bus gets you to white science. In other words a main bus is pretty much a mall that also makes science packs. It gets you to the late game, whatever that is, and that's fine I think. It's worth pointing out that the way they are doing waterfalls is just strictly wrong and will lead to very unbalanced supply downstream. I considered editing that part out of the screenshot but 
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Apr 28, 2023 15:48
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GetDunked posted:Ooh, what are those staircase-looking splitter setups? I've been playing this again recently and re-learning a lot of stuff from scratch. It's part of main bus architecture basically. Check out the guide. Main bus has poor demand planning  , but it's very hard to box yourself in with your own spaghetti if you follow it.
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Apr 28, 2023 15:56
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celestial teapot posted:It's part of main bus architecture basically. Check out the guide. Main bus has poor demand planning Ahh okay. I've been following that guide in trying to set my stuff up. I've been doing the 4 lane balancer gizmo in between taking all the stuff off belts and was wondering if the chained splitters was an easier way to take stuff off. I had no idea you could configure splitters... Currently I'm fighting lakes, cliffs, and trees more than my own infrastructure which is a good sign? I think?
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Apr 28, 2023 16:21
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GetDunked posted:Ahh okay. I've been following that guide in trying to set my stuff up. I've been doing the 4 lane balancer gizmo in between taking all the stuff off belts and was wondering if the chained splitters was an easier way to take stuff off. Probably yes, although not like the screenshot I posted. Check out the wiki, it has some tips for splitting off the bus and description of the mechanics involved: https://wiki.factorio.com/Tutorial:Main_bus#Split-off GetDunked posted:I had no idea you could configure splitters... Currently I'm fighting lakes, cliffs, and trees more than my own infrastructure which is a good sign? I think? Yeah that's your life now.
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Apr 29, 2023 17:54
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Trees and cliffs are very similar logistical challenges, in that both are best solved with explosives.
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Apr 29, 2023 17:59
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If only there was an easy clearance solution to the massive rock piles Alien Biomes dumps everywhere, before bots that is. I would ditch it, but I really enjoy being able to play on a snow world.
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May 1, 2023 00:04
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Bloody Pom posted:If only there was an easy clearance solution to the massive rock piles Alien Biomes dumps everywhere, before bots that is. If you use the mining vehicle mod I think you start with one in the crashed ship. Or at least I did in my SE game. Then you just have to drive it through them.
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May 1, 2023 04:21
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It's the spaghetti equivalent on a much larger scale, but it makes something like 35/m red and blue modules. Now I just need to scale up to a full belt of all sciences and then... I can finally launch a rocket.   Ideally I'd like to plan everything out with logical large block blueprints that create everything internally from raw resources via extremely upgraded bots and then have those blocks serviced by very large trains that go out to bespoke ore deposits. That's a few hundred hours in the future, though. Also I'd need a mod that autoremoves trees/rocks and autofills water... or just make a base template for the latter. neogeo0823 posted:What are you guys' favorite vanilla mall blueprints? I've been looking around for one, but can't seem to find one that's got all the necessities, instead only seeming to find ones that have early-mid game stuff. The normal belted malls off a bus are fine to get you into the late game, and then you abandon belts and have a tiny block of beacons and moduled machines next to a bunch of train outputs. I tried to find a blueprint for one then realized it'd be easy and just took an hour to build it myself. This is with zero unlimited upgrades and the logibots are more than capable of handling the task. White science upgrades will just make it faster. Then I split that logic network off and have stack inserters on the border insert into chests on the "main" logic network so I can keep building crap.
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May 1, 2023 06:42
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Doing PyMod for the first time, this poo poo is intense, I just now have automated science packs 2 in the time it usually takes me to launch a rocket.
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May 8, 2023 08:22
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You're braver than me, I take one look at the coal processing and run screaming back to KR2.
Bloody Pom fucked around with this message at 13:02 on May 9, 2023 |
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May 9, 2023 03:41
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Im just around rocket launch techs in Angel Bob's and I think it finally defeated me. Cognitively looking at what's needed to finish the research and start building a rocket and it looks so near. Physically there's so many fiddly bits left though, namely purple chips, scaling the poo poo out of titanium, everything to do with rocket fuel. I'm tempted to come back after a week "vacation" but I don't think I'll remember what I'm doing by then. Which just totally completes the loop of this thing being too much like work.
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May 9, 2023 14:36
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Leave a bunch of process notes as map tags, it's not much effort and it provides a chance for you to try and pick up around where you left off, if it turns out you actually want to.
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May 9, 2023 18:05
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socialsecurity posted:Doing PyMod for the first time, this poo poo is intense, I just now have automated science packs 2 in the time it usually takes me to launch a rocket. If you're doing the full modpack, you're in for the long haul. I've only just gotten my first complex circuits and am getting close to chemical science and I'm about 480 hours in. For the early game, the mechanical inserters are quite amazing, they're slow, only moving 0.6 items per second, but they don't use power and you can filter items with them. You'll be using them a lot to deal with ash. Almost all buildable tiles like stone, concrete etc have gotten major speed boosts compared to vanilla, refined concrete for example gives you a massive 350% movement speed, so around your main base you'll want to pave everything as you're going to be doing a lot of running around.
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May 9, 2023 21:36
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Freaksaus posted:If you're doing the full modpack, you're in for the long haul. I've only just gotten my first complex circuits and am getting close to chemical science and I'm about 480 hours in. Yeah the coal processing was a mess, biggest impact to me was when I wanted to stop making green circuits by hand and then looked at THAT process. I'm starting to get UPS drop already and it seems to be from my trains. I'm only running about 30ish train lines atm I've been more then that without UPS drop anyone have any idea what sort of train pathing issues I could fix to stop it?
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May 9, 2023 22:28
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I'm a clod who has spaghetti'd my way to rockets and taken my first cracks at real automation/bases and find vanilla engaging but solved. Space Exploration looks great, is that a good mod for a next step into more complication? I know there are other overhaul mods but I'm not sure how much I want "Vanilla but with 12 extra steps between finished goods." Obviously I'll try SE soon but I am wondering what the pipeline or sliding scale is from Vanilla to the highest end of complication. Also wondering if there are well known mods for things like different biter types, I like solving the problems of defense a lot.
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May 10, 2023 12:52
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Oh god don’t do SE as the next step. Play Krastorio2. It is a 50-100 hour mod vs Space Exploration’s 500+ hours
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May 10, 2023 12:56
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Yeah but those are two different answers. For complexity the scale goes something like this, with the sort of "default" / doesn't change the game objective mods on the left and the bigger weirder ones on the right: Vanilla krastorio 2 -- industrial revolution 3 (IR3 massively extends pre-electricity era, makes you build a lot more machines, love it or hate it situation) bobs/angels -- exotic industries -- SE (adds more but not necessarily more complexity) py ores/chem -- nullius (nullius changes the game objective and uses py chem) py alien life / advanced energy (this is the one where it takes 200 hours to make green science) So a good step is K2. Couple new resources but not that many, couple fun energy sources, couple new research cards, pretty good. For biters and defense the only answer is rampant and you might want rampant arsenal. can't tell you many specifics about these becuase conversely this is the part of the game i don't like and thus have never played these and often turn them off. if you don't want to go that hard there's like individual mods for toxic, frost, armo(u)red, explosive biters.
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May 10, 2023 13:05
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Ah perfect thanks to you both. Exactly the sort of community knowledge I needed. 
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May 10, 2023 13:12
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