politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

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FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Guavanaut posted:

Politically loaded because only one of those three men is Japanese.

I thought he was Austrian

# ? Apr 28, 2023 17:22

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 15:54

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

He was a man of many cultures.

Not all cultures, obviously, but many.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 17:29

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

me when i play paradox games

# ? Apr 28, 2023 17:50

Rebel Blob: Mar 1, 2008; Extinction for our time

Deerskin map presented to the colonial governor of South Carolina in the 1720s. European settlements are angular while tribes are circular. Thought to be a combination of geographical information and political/trade connections.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 18:44

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

lol at the governor dedicating an unnamed artist's work to the prince

# ? Apr 28, 2023 19:02

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Guavanaut posted:

Like so:

Most interesting thing is the difference between the 1920s nonsense and 2020s nonsense, like the assumption that Africa is 'naturally' split into British and European spheres (and Ethiopia) vs the assumption that it is split into African and Islamic spheres, or panamericanism vs everything south of the Rio Grande is Latin.

lol at Greece being in the western sphere in any sense outside of the Cold War

# ? Apr 28, 2023 22:04

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

I mean they invented Europe.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 22:09

Negostrike: Aug 15, 2015

LOL at Latin America being entirely within the Western Hemisphere but not being Western.

And half of the Western world being in the Eastern Hemisphere.

# ? Apr 28, 2023 22:15

jeebus bob: Nov 4, 2004; Festina lente

Negostrike posted:

LOL at Latin America being entirely within the Western Hemisphere but not being Western.

And half of the Western world being in the Eastern Hemisphere.

You... Do know that those distinctions are leftovers from the cold war, right?

# ? Apr 28, 2023 22:44

Negostrike: Aug 15, 2015

Considering most of Latin America was forced to align with the West, it's still nonsensical

# ? Apr 28, 2023 22:50

jeebus bob: Nov 4, 2004; Festina lente

True. It's also just plain racist. South America was simply too brown on average to be considered fully a part of "the west".

# ? Apr 28, 2023 22:57

Eiba: Jul 26, 2007

jeebus bob posted:

True. It's also just plain racist. South America was simply too brown on average to be considered fully a part of "the west".

And yet the Philippines and New Guinea are red on that map, while Latin America is not. It's a weird map. Seems very concerned with religion given all those Islamic exclaves, but not very consistently based on Africa and Latin America.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 00:35

Szarrukin: Sep 29, 2021

SlothfulCobra posted:

There was some kind of an idea of a nation state, most notably with the bigger societies like the Aztecs, Incans, or Iroquois.

Of all these three, only Mexica Triple Alliance could be considered nation state. Neither Tawantinsuyu nor Haudenosaunee Confederacy were nation states ("Inca" was more designation of social class than nationality, although one could argue that these terms were kinda blurred)

# ? Apr 29, 2023 00:36

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

FreudianSlippers posted:

I mean they invented Europe.

There's another Europe on there other than the west that Greece super firmly belongs to.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 01:34

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Grape posted:

There's another Europe on there other than the west that Greece super firmly belongs to.

Southern Europe isn't on there.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:01

Rebel Blob: Mar 1, 2008; Extinction for our time

The source of that map is Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations. It was a major ideological touchstone for the neo-cons and the Bush administration. The bastardized version posted is even less nuanced than Huntington's original, which conceded Japanese and Buddhist cultures.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:19

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

lol at phillippines and northern south america

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:30

Negostrike: Aug 15, 2015

drat Guyanas make up your minds already

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:49

BonHair: Apr 28, 2007

FreudianSlippers posted:

I mean they invented Europe.

loving bastards then!

Actually, I'm pretty sure the ancient Greeks were more into the Mediterranean area, the concept of Europe was not really interesting before after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 07:19

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

BonHair posted:

loving bastards then!

Actually, I'm pretty sure the ancient Greeks were more into the Mediterranean area, the concept of Europe was not really interesting before after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire.

The first book of history ever written starts with a mythological description of the continents. The distinction between free Europe (Greece) and tyrannous Asia (Persia) was pretty important to them.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 08:30

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

The whole "there was no such thing as nation states" complaint about that map in the first place is dumb because the map didn't say anything about states, just the nation part. Getting into the reeds about whether or not anything counted as a nation state is completely tangential to what it's all nominally in reply to.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 09:24

MeinPanzer: Dec 20, 2004; anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Holy poo poo piss that is way more inland and north pacific coast exploration than I knew they did. I could look at this thing for hours.

I'm from BC and I've always known about Spanish exploration in this area--there are plenty of Spanish toponyms around, such as the Strait of Juan de Fuca--but it still blew my mind to learn that the Spanish established a short-lived fortified settlement on western Vancouver Island, Santa Cruz de Nuca, in 1789 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Cruz_de_Nuca) and that it was the focal point of a major international incident involving the Nuu-chah-nulth tribe, Spanish Empire, Kingdom of Great Britain, and United States of America that almost led to an international conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootka_Crisis).

# ? Apr 29, 2023 09:30

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

europe def isnt eu-ropa

# ? Apr 29, 2023 11:00

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Ras Het posted:

The first book of history ever written starts with a mythological description of the continents. The distinction between free Europe (Greece) and tyrannous Asia (Persia) was pretty important to them.

And that concept of "Europe" does not in any way shape or form include all the peoples above and to the west of them that they either had no clue about, didn't care about, or thought were barbarians.

You might as well assert that they were also referring to our modern concept of Asia with the same, which lmao.

Grape fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Apr 29, 2023

# ? Apr 29, 2023 12:58

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Asia is from London, Europe is from Upplands Väsby.

These are the common definitions most geographers agree on.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 13:14

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Grape posted:

And that concept of "Europe" does not in any way shape or form include all the peoples above and to the west of them that they either had no clue about, didn't care about, or thought were barbarians.

You might as well assert that they were also referring to our modern concept of Asia with the same, which lmao.

Well, if you invert that, you'll see that we in the North and West have inherited a lot of East-West dichotomies from the very specific Greek context, which again seems to make their concept of continents important

# ? Apr 29, 2023 14:35

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

i say swears online posted:

it's interesting seeing the lack of dates in the 1600s and early 1700s

the hapsburgs became too inbred to order expeditions during this time

# ? Apr 29, 2023 16:24

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Negostrike posted:

drat Guyanas make up your minds already

Weird how they get so much nuance but then belize and haiti are just latin american

# ? Apr 29, 2023 16:37

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

https://twitter.com/darthbeavis_/status/1652168023145365504
https://twitter.com/BeijingPalmer/status/1635818159562170368

Badger of Basra posted:

the hapsburgs became too inbred to order expeditions during this time

The last Spanish Hapsburg died childless in 1700 from being too inbred, leading to a 15 year war to install the Bourbon dynasty.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 17:50

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Ras Het posted:

Well, if you invert that, you'll see that we in the North and West have inherited a lot of East-West dichotomies from the very specific Greek context, which again seems to make their concept of continents important

The East-West dichotomy the Latin/Protestant world inherited also ended up with the Greeks firmly in the Orthodox/Ottoman orient.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 18:30

Tree Goat: May 24, 2009; argania spinosa

hmmm suspecting the twitter poster with the russian anime catgirl superimposed over the TNO omsk flag avatar may not be operating with sincere geopolitical realities in mind

# ? Apr 29, 2023 18:30