War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)

Bremen: Jul 20, 2006; Our God..... is an awesome God

ummel posted:

The cyberpunk dream we always had. Some of the things I've seen between this war and the Myanmar civil war makes me realize we're a lot closer to weird tech-infused conflicts in the future than we realize. Even while WW2-era anti-aircraft are mounted to semi trucks to be used as direct fire as infantry charge trench lines.

Honestly every time I see things like this I wonder what would happen in a full on modern conflict between two high tech major industrial powers and it kind of boggles the mind. Like, imagine how many of those things the US or China could churn out if they were 100% committed.

"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:35

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 01:40

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

Bremen posted:

Honestly every time I see things like this I wonder what would happen in a full on modern conflict between two high tech major industrial powers and it kind of boggles the mind. Like, imagine how many of those things the US or China could churn out if they were 100% committed.

"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."

I imagine the first casualty will be the internet/telecommunications.

Then we're back to WWII.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 02:38

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Drone strike on an oil tank farm in Sevastopol

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1652155232896286720

The claim is a Ukrainian drone hit the tank farm. It's an impressive fire.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 06:20

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

It demonstrates well what a terrible toll wars have on environment

Someone could probably calculate an indicative oil depot fire equivalent and then estimate how many ODFE's have been emitted into environment during this war. Although some battles take place in already heavily polluted industrial areas while others in farmland or pristine habitats, so it's never straightforward.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 10:58

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f0856aad1f26177

quote:

Russian-occupied city of Novaya Kakhovka under 'intense artillery fire' from Ukrainian forces
Russian occupying authorities in southern Ukraine said on Saturday that Ukrainian forces were subjecting the city of Novaya Kakhovka to �intense artillery fire� that had cut off electricity.

AFP reports that the city�s authorities said on Telegram: �Novaya Kakhovka and settlements around the district are under very intense artillery fire from the armed forces of Ukraine.�

Novaya Kakhovka is in the part of the southern Kherson region that Russia controls.

It lies upstream on the Dnipro River from Kherson, the regional capital from which Russia withdrew last November.

Novaya Kakhovka fell to Russian forces on the first day of their invasion.

Something seems to be cooking but Nova Kahovka is an unlikely point of attack, unless Ukraine has intelligence suggesting that Russians have left it vulnerable (which I find unlikely). But it sounds like more than just some target of opportunity getting hammered.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 14:00

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

Nenonen posted:

Something seems to be cooking but Nova Kahovka is an unlikely point of attack, unless Ukraine has intelligence suggesting that Russians have left it vulnerable (which I find unlikely). But it sounds like more than just some target of opportunity getting hammered.

You don't put heavy artillery where you won't use it later.

I don't know if they will cross the river before or after their initial attack starts, but that artillery is going to be used there.

Either that or they're firing off the ammo before moving. We're going to find out by this time next week I think.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 14:15

poor waif: Apr 8, 2007; Kaboom

Nenonen posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f0856aad1f26177

Something seems to be cooking but Nova Kahovka is an unlikely point of attack, unless Ukraine has intelligence suggesting that Russians have left it vulnerable (which I find unlikely). But it sounds like more than just some target of opportunity getting hammered.

The dam might be the easiest place to put down a bridge. If they do want a bridgehead, it might be the place to do it. Would also be the place to fake trying to establish a bridgehead, so who knows!

# ? Apr 29, 2023 14:45

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Storkrasch posted:

The dam might be the easiest place to put down a bridge. If they do want a bridgehead, it might be the place to do it. Would also be the place to fake trying to establish a bridgehead, so who knows!

There is a bridge, but it's all mined and probably all sorts of obstacles built and artillery zeroed in on the location, so it's going to be hard to take.

But further just across begins the city itself. Russians have had time to fortify and mine buildings so unless there is strong evidence that Russians have left only a skeleton crew to guard it then it's going to be a hard time to first cross the river, clear mines and fight house to house, with logistics coming across a river.

It's possible that the strikes are part of a ruse, or to test reactions, or both. The timing suggests that it's not just an isolated local thing. If the offensive is to begin in the coming week then there will be a lot of such activity.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 14:55

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Now the governor of Russia's Belgorod oblast is claiming that five villages near the border are without electricity because of Ukrainian firing. Presumably it's connected to this:

https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/29-april-at-sivershchyna-and-slobozhanschyna-directions-russian

quote:

At Sivershchyna and Slobozhanschyna directions Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Semenivka, Leonivka, Kostobobriv, Hremyach, Romashkove. Russian artillery shelled Halahanivka, Leonivka and Buchky of Chernihiv region; Romashkove, Vilna Sloboda, Stukalivka, Iskryskivschyna, Volfyne and Obody of Sumy region, also Morokhovets, Lyptsi, Hatysche, Volokhivka, Nesterne, Budarky of Kharkiv region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

Funnily enough I see Russian reports of Ukrainian strikes in media but not of Ukrainian reports of Russian strikes.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 17:01

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Nenonen posted:

Funnily enough I see Russian reports of Ukrainian strikes in media but not of Ukrainian reports of Russian strikes.

Well, were are you looking? See e.g.:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2023/04/29/7399940/
https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2023/04/29/7399998/

# ? Apr 29, 2023 17:09

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

I'm talking about media that I follow, i.e. Finnish media. Believe it or not but I'm not surprised that Ukrainian media reports what Ukrainian general staff has to say.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 17:31

Vietnom nom nom: Oct 24, 2000; Forum Veteran

Latest forecast model runs showing substantially clear skies with little if any rain over the contested regions as far ahead as can be seen. Not to predict the start of the offensive, but from a weather perspective a window is opening now.

Good luck to Ukraine.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 11:53

Pablo Bluth: Sep 7, 2007; I've made a huge mistake.

Looks like we want to supply some longer range weapons.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1652565974753615874

Stormshadow has been previously rumoured. That's 450kg warhead and 350km.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 12:30

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Iltalehti interviewed Swedish and Finnish navy officers about current operations in the Baltic. The recent reports of Russian activities around Baltic sea cables hasn't gone unnoticed. The text below is machine translated so apologies if there's some quirks that I didn't catch.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/5bd64a17-0354-44bb-8096-fea89f271282

quote:

Russia may strike Finnish and Swedish power cables - Navies on heightened alert

The Swedish and Finnish navies are on heightened alert to prevent a Russian attack on their energy networks.

Russian surface vessels have been spotted in the vicinity of wind farms and underwater power cables.

- We are convinced that Russia has done so, mapped the targets in some way, Swedish navy commander Ewa Skoog Haslum tells Iltalehti.

Is there a risk that the Russians could commit sabotage and destroy underwater power cables, for example?

- Absolutely.

- They are a way of conducting an operation against us, Admiral Skoog Haslum warns of the possibility of sabotage.

Given the possibility of a Russian attack on energy networks, the Swedish navy is on heightened alert to prevent sabotage.

- Therefore, we are constantly working both to deter intentions by being close to the targets and to show our willingness to defend ourselves," Skoog Haslum stresses.

The commander strongly condemns the Russian mapping operations.

- You can map open information, but when you go into the waters of another country and do so, it is forbidden.

- We must have control over all things underwater," the naval commander stresses.

Immediate combat readiness

Surface-to-surface observations Skoog Haslum confirms. He cannot comment on whether Russian submarines have violated Swedish territorial waters since Russia launched its war of destruction in Ukraine.

- I am sorry. I cannot go into these matters.

The navy commander does not want to reveal to the Russians what the navy has information about. That would jeopardize the success of the countermeasures.

What is clear is that the heightened readiness applies to the various branches of the navy.

- Our navy is very active in many ways. We are out there 24 hours a day, seven days a week," says Admiral Skoog Haslum.

He then stresses once again that the Swedes are ready to counter attacks on energy networks and society as a whole.

- We don't need to mobilise our forces very much, we are ready for operations from day zero. We are out at sea all the time. All our units are ready: our landing force, our minesweepers and our submarines," says Skoog Haslum.

Foreign and security policy sources confirm to Iltalehti that the heightened readiness applies equally to the Finnish navy.

Fast sea voyage

For the week ahead, 200 Finnish naval personnel will be on exercises in Braga, south of Stockholm. They crossed the Baltic Sea in thirteen Jurmo- and Jehu-class vessels.

The journey started from the Uusimaa Brigade in Tammisaari.

- Without breaks, we would have been here in seven hours. We took a short break at Ut�," says Atte L�yt�nen, commander of the Vaasa Coastal Battalion.

Finland and Sweden have a joint combat readiness at sea in a few hours.

- You can train and do things so quickly. It's a win-win situation. Swedes arrive in Finland just as quickly as we arrive in Sweden, L�yt�nen says.

Sweden would defend �land

Skoog Haslum says Swedish troops under his command will defend �land if Russia attacks.

- If Finland wants our help, we will definitely help Finland to defend �land, of course. It is not a question of where we are now. We will operate where we are deployed," Skoog Haslum tells IL.

The information is historic.

Until now, Finland and Sweden have not officially confirmed that the countries' navies have a joint operational capability to defend �land.

Similarly, Finnish forces would defend Gotland.

If Russia were to invade Gotland, Skoog Haslum would have Finnish soldiers under his command.

Battalion Commander L�yt�nen stresses the readiness of his soldiers to repel an attack on �land.

- I have been to �land many times, even on civilian business. The island is beautiful and well worth defending," L�yt�nen sums up.

The Russians are a familiar sight

Every year, several �landers come to the Swedish-speaking Uusimaa Brigade to perform voluntary military service.

- The green berets worn by the brigade's coastj�gers are a common sight in �land, L�yt�nen smiles.

L�yt�nen says that the operational cooperation practised in the Stockholm archipelago is applicable to the defence of both �land and Gotland.

- This operation can be applied to any situation that we might encounter. At the tactical level and at the battalion level, we are always ready to carry out our mission. Yes, we are also used to operating with the Russians in the Baltic Sea. A Russian ship is a familiar sight for us," L�yt�nen says.

Missiles and mortars

The coastguards carry Tampella mortars, the battalion's fire support weapons.

The mortars are fired at targets between 200 metres and 5 kilometres away.

The joint combat unit SFATU (Swedish Finnish Amphibious Task Unit) of the Berga and Uusimaa Brigade is capable of destroying both surface and underwater vessels.

Its main weapons for hard-landing are the Swedish Sj�m�lsrobot 17 missile and the Finnish RO 2006 Eurospike missile.

- Both Finland and Sweden will also have coastal anti-ship missiles in this exercise," L�yt�nen says.

In fast and mobile island combat, it is also important to defeat an attacker who has landed. That's why the coastj�gers are training with mortars.

- We pretty much defend by attacking as well. We use all types of combat," L�yt�nen stresses.

The secret beneath the surface

Sweden has something that the Finnish navy does not yet have: a submarine fleet.

Iltalehti has reported on its modernisation.

Saab is currently building two A26-class submarines, Sk�ne and Blekinge. The new submarines were ordered by the Swedish Navy in 2007 and will enter service in the second half of the 2020s.

Two of the existing Gotland-class submarines have been modernised to meet the requirements of electronic warfare, and a third is being modernised at the Kockums shipyard in Karlskrona.

- Submarines are a fantastic tool. When the enemy knows that we have submarines, it is a strength in all our operations. Advantage can be achieved with both manned and unmanned submarines. The knowledge of the existence of submarines makes it difficult for the adversary to act, says Admiral Skoog Haslum.

When the Swedish submarines were driven to the shipyard for modernisation, their propellers were covered with a hood underwater before being raised.

The shape of the propeller is one of the biggest war secrets in the Baltic Sea.

For if the other side is advanced in acoustics and hydrodynamics, it can judge what the propeller sounds like from the shape of the propeller - and track the submarine.

Submarines are of great operational benefit to the Swedish navy.

- Reconnaissance under waves is automatically easier: monitoring ships and tracking other submarines," says Skoog Haslum.

Battalion Commander L�yt�nen says that the different capabilities make the Finnish-Swedish force strong in the Baltic Sea.

- Both countries have slightly different armaments, but when you put them together, you get a very good unit. Together, we are more than the sum of our parts.

tl;dr: Swedish and Finnish navies are at heightened state of alert to protect underwater cables and marine wind farms. Finland joining NATO separately has not changed the bilateral defense cooperation. This is the first time that the navies openly admit that in a war they are prepared to defend �land and Gotland together.

Baltic submarine cables

# ? Apr 30, 2023 13:36

Willo567: Feb 5, 2015; Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

Pablo Bluth posted:

Looks like we want to supply some longer range weapons.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1652565974753615874

Stormshadow has been previously rumoured. That's 450kg warhead and 350km.

So is it guaranteed that Britain will actually buy the missiles for Ukraine? It says that it's a proposal

Willo567 fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Apr 30, 2023

# ? Apr 30, 2023 17:32

Ahdinko: Oct 27, 2007; WHAT A LOVELY DAY

Willo567 posted:

So is it guaranteed that Britain will actually buy the missiles for Ukraine? It says that it's a proposal

Not at all.

It's an RFI - request for information, which is a pretty "early stage", and non commital kind of process. They will go through at least an RFQ and maybe an RFP inbetween too.

To give it a simple real world example, the Government are hungry, so they issue an RFI for lunch with the requirements of "must taste good, must be something I can eat for lunch. Tell me more about your offerings".
Suppliers respond with things like "well we supply these sandwiches with this choice of fillings that have 800-1000 calories", other suppliers will offer a salad, some a hot meal, etc. The government considers all the responses.

They then will probably put out an RFP - request for proposal. It will have been informed by the responses they got from the RFI. So the Government will put out an RFP saying "Okay so we decided want some sandwiches and definitely not salads or hot meals. We know we need them for 2024, but we need some more detailed information. What kind of filling would you put in the sandwich? How would you make the sandwich? How would you deliver the sandwich? What are the timescales you would deliver the sandwich in? How much does a sandwich cost?"

Suppliers then respond to the RFP saying for example "okay well we have the ham and cheese sandwich which would fit your needs because we can make it by 2024, infact the lead time on a sandwich from ordering to delivery is 1 month. We have a sandwich production line which makes sandwiches and then we use our own truck to bring the sandwich to your location. The cost for this would be �5 per sandwich and we can manufacture 1000 sandwiches per month, we need 3 months notice to spin up the sandwich production beyond current capacity".
The government will recieve and review the responses and goto the final stage, RFQ.

RFQ is request for quotation, by this point the government have seen the details of alot of different lunch options, and know exactly what they want for lunch, but they want to encourage competition from Suppliers to get the best deal/fastest delivery times/etc. So the government will issue an RFQ saying "okay, we want 10,000 turkey sandwiches, we need them by November 2023, they have to be square sandwiches and in plastic wrapping. Give us a price and a delivery window we can hold you to, you have a month to respond"

Suppliers will either bow out because they can't fulfill that, or they respond to that with a formal "Yes we can deliver 10,000 square turkey sandwiches in plastic packaging before November, and the cost will be �50,000".

The government then receives all the responses, and selects one or more winners to award the contract to, and then that contract goes ahead as the RFQ response detailed.

Ahdinko fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 30, 2023

# ? Apr 30, 2023 19:48

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Ahdinko posted:

Not at all.

It's an RFI - request for information, which is a pretty "early stage", and non commital kind of process. They will go through at least an RFQ and maybe an RFP inbetween too.

To give it a simple real world example, the Government are hungry, so they issue an RFI for lunch with the requirements of "must taste good, must be something I can eat for lunch. Tell me more about your offerings".
Suppliers respond with things like "well we supply these sandwiches with this choice of fillings that have 800-1000 calories", other suppliers will offer a salad, some a hot meal, etc. The government considers all the responses.

They then will probably put out an RFP - request for proposal. It will have been informed by the responses they got from the RFI. So the Government will put out an RFP saying "Okay so we decided want some sandwiches and definitely not salads or hot meals. We know we need them for 2024, but we need some more detailed information. What kind of filling would you put in the sandwich? How would you make the sandwich? How would you deliver the sandwich? What are the timescales you would deliver the sandwich in? How much does a sandwich cost?"

Suppliers then respond to the RFP saying for example "okay well we have the ham and cheese sandwich which would fit your needs because we can make it by 2024, infact the lead time on a sandwich from ordering to delivery is 1 month. We have a sandwich production line which makes sandwiches and then we use our own truck to bring the sandwich to your location. The cost for this would be £5 per sandwich and we can manufacture 1000 sandwiches per month, we need 3 months notice to spin up the sandwich production beyond current capacity".
The government will recieve and review the responses and goto the final stage, RFQ.

RFQ is request for quotation, by this point the government have seen the details of alot of different lunch options, and know exactly what they want for lunch, but they want to encourage competition from Suppliers to get the best deal/fastest delivery times/etc. So the government will issue an RFQ saying "okay, we want 10,000 turkey sandwiches, we need them by November 2023, they have to be square sandwiches and in plastic wrapping. Give us a price and a delivery window we can hold you to, you have a month to respond"

Suppliers will either bow out because they can't fulfill that, or they respond to that with a formal "Yes we can deliver 10,000 square turkey sandwiches in plastic packaging before November, and the cost will be £50,000".

The government then receives all the responses, and selects one or more winners to award the contract to, and then that contract goes ahead as the RFQ response detailed.

THIS guy fucks with procurement

The only thing I can add to this otherwise perfect explanation is that no government in their right mind issues even an RFI on a highly sensitive topic (like say, privatizing a core government service, sending long range weapons to an active belligerent, those kinds of deals) without having a pretty good idea that they fully intend to go through with some version of the options put to them, since even issuing the initial RFI probably carries 80% of the political fallout risk as a front loaded cost to just showing your hand in that manner

# ? Apr 30, 2023 19:58

Nitrox: Jul 5, 2002

Here is a TERRA unit drone operator showcasing some munitions/hardware. Then narrated combat footage from Bahmut, showing how drone operators work in conjunction with assault infantry. Any dead or injured are censored out. You can turn on captions for translation.

https://youtu.be/KS4pZoZf7JI

Notice the new drone-specific HE rounds, that are physically three times larger than 40 mm grenades. I didn't catch anything about their payload capacity, he just says that those dji drones can carry two at a time.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 21:42

SixFigureSandwich: Oct 30, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Ahdinko posted:

Not at all.

It's an RFI - request for information, which is a pretty "early stage", and non commital kind of process. They will go through at least an RFQ and maybe an RFP inbetween too.

To give it a simple real world example, the Government are hungry, so they issue an RFI for lunch with the requirements of "must taste good, must be something I can eat for lunch. Tell me more about your offerings".
Suppliers respond with things like "well we supply these sandwiches with this choice of fillings that have 800-1000 calories", other suppliers will offer a salad, some a hot meal, etc. The government considers all the responses.

They then will probably put out an RFP - request for proposal. It will have been informed by the responses they got from the RFI. So the Government will put out an RFP saying "Okay so we decided want some sandwiches and definitely not salads or hot meals. We know we need them for 2024, but we need some more detailed information. What kind of filling would you put in the sandwich? How would you make the sandwich? How would you deliver the sandwich? What are the timescales you would deliver the sandwich in? How much does a sandwich cost?"

Suppliers then respond to the RFP saying for example "okay well we have the ham and cheese sandwich which would fit your needs because we can make it by 2024, infact the lead time on a sandwich from ordering to delivery is 1 month. We have a sandwich production line which makes sandwiches and then we use our own truck to bring the sandwich to your location. The cost for this would be �5 per sandwich and we can manufacture 1000 sandwiches per month, we need 3 months notice to spin up the sandwich production beyond current capacity".
The government will recieve and review the responses and goto the final stage, RFQ.

RFQ is request for quotation, by this point the government have seen the details of alot of different lunch options, and know exactly what they want for lunch, but they want to encourage competition from Suppliers to get the best deal/fastest delivery times/etc. So the government will issue an RFQ saying "okay, we want 10,000 turkey sandwiches, we need them by November 2023, they have to be square sandwiches and in plastic wrapping. Give us a price and a delivery window we can hold you to, you have a month to respond"

Suppliers will either bow out because they can't fulfill that, or they respond to that with a formal "Yes we can deliver 10,000 square turkey sandwiches in plastic packaging before November, and the cost will be �50,000".

The government then receives all the responses, and selects one or more winners to award the contract to, and then that contract goes ahead as the RFQ response detailed.

Great summary except the last bit should read "government selects zero or more winners". Ask me how I know :v:

# ? Apr 30, 2023 21:59

Pablo Bluth: Sep 7, 2007; I've made a huge mistake.

Willo567 posted:

So is it guaranteed that Britain will actually buy the missiles for Ukraine? It says that it's a proposal

Like Ahdinko says, it's not guaranteed. However it at least points towards the UK Govt. not being concerned about red lines that have delayed so many other aid items. It's should be a question of whether anyone has a feasible weapon at a justifiable price.

# ? Apr 30, 2023 22:03

Sekenr: Dec 12, 2013

Someone derailed a train near Bryansk
https://twitter.com/nashaniva/status/1652959685039779840?t=Pqh7XL4FdUtPuDONifl4KA&s=19

# ? May 1, 2023 11:39

Chalks: Sep 30, 2009

The UK seems to be enjoying its role as the red line crosser. Very awkward for Russia to have us put our toes over the line while the US refuses to cross it. Not sure how they could respond and if they don't it'll be like the leopard tanks all over again.

# ? May 1, 2023 11:40

Scratch Monkey: Oct 25, 2010; 👰Proč bychom se netě�ili🥰kdy� n�m P�n Bůh🙌🏻zdrav� d�💪?

Is it me or has twitter stopped offering machine translations for non-English tweets?

# ? May 1, 2023 12:28

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

It still works but it's always been a little unreliable depending on whats in the text, it doesnt like when there are links or images

# ? May 1, 2023 12:56

Kammat: Feb 9, 2008; Odd Person

Scratch Monkey posted:

Is it me or has twitter stopped offering machine translations for non-English tweets?

I have Chinese/Japanese/Korean tweets getting the translation option, but it's not popping up for anything using Cyrillic. Desktop here.

# ? May 1, 2023 12:57

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

That looks to be Belarusian to me, FWIW, though I imagine most translators would detect that.

# ? May 1, 2023 13:08

Strawman: Feb 9, 2008; Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.

Chalks posted:

The UK seems to be enjoying its role as the red line crosser. Very awkward for Russia to have us put our toes over the line while the US refuses to cross it. Not sure how they could respond and if they don't it'll be like the leopard tanks all over again.

The Great Game continues.

# ? May 1, 2023 14:27

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

I imagine Russia only has a limited supply of the super heavy equipment required to lift a derailed locomotive and train back onto the tracks, and also to repair those tracks - they also seem to have a very limited and linear rail network, just following the thing around on google maps. If partisans keep knocking these things off, it might start making it difficult to ship troops, equipment, and supplies to where they are needed in a worthwhile timeframe.

# ? May 1, 2023 14:33

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Chalks posted:

The UK seems to be enjoying its role as the red line crosser. Very awkward for Russia to have us put our toes over the line while the US refuses to cross it. Not sure how they could respond and if they don't it'll be like the leopard tanks all over again.

Yeah currently UK is taking the role of running in front of US to dash out the barking toward China, and any country Biden/Binken want them to bark, taking the baton from Australia after their right wing government lost the election to a more moderate government.

South Korea Yoon government is doing that too but China has much more ways to teach SK lessons since their economies are much more intergrated.

# ? May 1, 2023 14:41

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

NTRabbit posted:

I imagine Russia only has a limited supply of the super heavy equipment required to lift a derailed locomotive and train back onto the tracks, and also to repair those tracks - they also seem to have a very limited and linear rail network, just following the thing around on google maps. If partisans keep knocking these things off, it might start making it difficult to ship troops, equipment, and supplies to where they are needed in a worthwhile timeframe.

From previous thread discussion, Russia's infra for internal rail systems is actually pretty robust, because they're aware of how necessary it is- it's supposedly one of the better-maintained systems.

# ? May 1, 2023 15:01

Electric Wrigglies: Feb 6, 2015

and also, if it is important, you don't wait for a crane to lift a loco back on the tracks, you skull drag it and other debris out of the way, re-lay the gravel and track and get on with business.

# ? May 1, 2023 15:14

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

If you consider how big Russia is and how important railways are economically and militarily and that they have to cross all the way across Siberia in winter and in summer and during rasputitsa, and then consider the experiences from Russian civil war and WW2 where railway operations played a huge role, it's hard to come to the conclusion that Russians can't get some tracks repaired.

# ? May 1, 2023 15:32

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Prigozhin said couple of days ago that the Ukrainian offensive will start on Tuesday or alternatively it might be delayed until the Victory Day on May 9th for symbolism. I guess we'll see in a week's time if he's yet again full of BS.

# ? May 1, 2023 16:17

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

Nenonen posted:

If you consider how big Russia is and how important railways are economically and militarily and that they have to cross all the way across Siberia in winter and in summer and during rasputitsa, and then consider the experiences from Russian civil war and WW2 where railway operations played a huge role, it's hard to come to the conclusion that Russians can't get some tracks repaired.

Couldn't you say something similar about the military too?

# ? May 1, 2023 16:49

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

No?

Like, they're two completely different things.

# ? May 1, 2023 16:54

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Couldn't you say something similar about the military too?

no, because the military is only economically relevant to the corporations getting rich equipping it, and to a lesser degree to the economies of cities housing larger garrisons

for everything else, the military is a huge drain on the economy, so no, you can not say the military is "economically and militarily important"

one of these things is plain false, and the other thing is obvious... wait :lol:

, saw what you did there, buddy

# ? May 1, 2023 16:58

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

It's pretty easy to repair train tracks. I think the only thing that causes moderate long term delays is blowing bridges or loving with the electrical systems.

# ? May 1, 2023 16:59

DarklyDreaming: Apr 4, 2009; Fun scary

Nenonen posted:

Prigozhin said couple of days ago that the Ukrainian offensive will start on Tuesday or alternatively it might be delayed until the Victory Day on May 9th for symbolism. I guess we'll see in a week's time if he's yet again full of BS.

His whole thing since last summer has been "It's everyone's fault but mine that we're losing" so if I had to guess he's doing the right-wing media personality thing of loading ideas into shotgun shells and firing them randomly in the air, whichever hits makes him a lone genius among establishment idiots

# ? May 1, 2023 17:08

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

stephenthinkpad posted:

Yeah currently UK is taking the role of running in front of US to dash out the barking toward China, and any country Biden/Binken want them to bark, taking the baton from Australia after their right wing government lost the election to a more moderate government.

South Korea Yoon government is doing that too but China has much more ways to teach SK lessons since their economies are much more intergrated.

"not barking" is doing some work - true, front benchers are no longer openly speculating about backing Taiwan in a war, but Albanese hasn't backed down on AUKUS and has made virtually no concessions in terms of reining in domestic China critics in return for trade concessions. In a concrete way this is no better, swapping heated rhetoric for actual militarization legitimated by being executed by a center-left government

rightly or not, Beijing interprets a claim that backbenchers and domestic media alike are untameable as incredible, even in liberal democracies

# ? May 1, 2023 17:14

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 01:40

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

Nenonen posted:

Prigozhin said couple of days ago that the Ukrainian offensive will start on Tuesday or alternatively it might be delayed until the Victory Day on May 9th for symbolism. I guess we'll see in a week's time if he's yet again full of BS.

Depends on where it starts, but it's still kinda muddy. About a week from now sounds about right unless there is sudden torrential rain.

# ? May 1, 2023 17:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > War in Ukraine CE: The Golf War

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