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They were both horrific, totalitarian regimes that committed brutal crimes against their own population and against their neighbors so let's not spend time rehashing which was marginally worse or treated better by history. My understanding from my first responder days is that less than lethal shots were explicitly warned against because if you shot to incapacitate, and they ended up dying, that opened you up to legal risks. Which of course creates a perverse incentive.
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May 1, 2023 18:19
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Morrow posted:They were both horrific, totalitarian regimes that committed brutal crimes against their own population and against their neighbors so let's not spend time rehashing which was marginally worse or treated better by history. True, but it was still preferable for the British Empire to win over the Nazis.
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May 1, 2023 18:26
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Byzantine posted:... Is your contention that Britain and France would have been content to let Japan and Italy screw with their colonies, that fighting Japan and Italy wouldn't have eventually dragged in Germany, that Germany wouldn't have invaded France, or that none of these would have concerned the capitalists invested in those colonies (or France)? This is an actual question. This assertion seems so out there I can't tell if I'm misreading which capitalists you're talking about or getting whooshed by sarcasm.
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May 1, 2023 18:34
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At the very, very least, they can stop telling cops that they can get  ”Very invested in some very intense sex” after they kill someone.https://twitter.com/rzstprogramming/status/1385274653229285377
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May 1, 2023 18:44
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Dr Christmas posted:At the very, very least, they can stop telling cops that they can get I'm eager to read the studies on whether sex after only firing a warning shot is as good as murder sex
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May 1, 2023 18:46
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David Grossman is an absolute scumbag and should be set adrift on a small boat in the Pacific
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May 1, 2023 18:49
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Angry_Ed posted:Yeah he was so eager to fight the Soviets he signed a non-agression pact with them, complete with a Secret Protocol to carve up Eastern Europe between the two. And in return the USSR was only far too happy to engage in Anti-Semitic actions and help cause Genocide in Poland. A non-aggression pact that lasted literally less than a year. Turning slavic peoples into slaves was a pillar of Nazi ideology, as was the imaginary link between jews and Bolshevism.
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May 1, 2023 18:52
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Byzantine posted:Invading the USSR, destroying communism, and slaughtering everybody living there to resettle the land with Germans was the driving force of Nazism. Partly true. The Nazis' desire to genocide and repopulate all Slavic lands regardless of existing system of government had as much to do with communism as the people of those lands fighting for their lives against an existential threat. In the Soviet Union's defense, the alliance with the Nazis didn't have much to do with communism either, it was just bog-standard revanchism from a bog-standard imperialist state that had no strong feelings about what the Hitler was doing in his own empire and was absolutely positive the leopards wouldn't eat its face.
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May 1, 2023 18:54
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Professor Beetus posted:Why do cops need to put 85 bullets into a guy reaching for his wallet when one or two will do? Honestly, I think it's for justification after the fact. You put a guy down with one or two shots, were they really any sort of threat that needed shot in the first place? Put a whole clip into a guy though? Then "drat, you needed all that to take this guy down? He must've been some methed up Incredible Hulk coming at you." And then the fact that it was a 4 year old on a tricycle gets buried under all the other headlines and forgotten.
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May 1, 2023 19:01
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Acebuckeye13 posted:David Grossman is an absolute scumbag and should be set adrift on a small boat in the Pacific
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May 1, 2023 19:11
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the_steve posted:Honestly, I think it's for justification after the fact. Nah. Legally, the number of shots a police officer makes has no impact on whether use of force was justified. The court just determines whether the use of force itself was justified and not the number of shots. You can fire an entire clip or a single bullet and it makes no difference. You're either entirely in the clear because use of force was justified or you're in trouble no matter how many bullets you fired. The actual answer is that if police are using deadly force in a situation where they are by themsleves, they are supposed to shoot several times in a row. It's the same thing with SWAT teams and military raids. If you fire a single bullet and then stop to assess whether it hit or killed the person, then it potentially gives the shooter time to shoot you back or hurt others. quote:If officers are using deadly force, they’re usually trained to not pause their fire and to shoot in quick succession – taking a break to assess the suspect they’re shooting at could give that suspect time to harm them or others, If it is a bunch of police, then it is usually a result of all of them firing at once: quote:High shot counts may be attributed to a phenomenon called “sympathetic fire” or “reflexive fire,” which occurs when one officer fires on a suspect, so one or more officers with them start firing, too, even if they haven’t immediately perceived the suspect to be a threat, Stoughton said. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html
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May 1, 2023 19:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nah. Legally, the number of shots a police officer makes has no impact on whether use of force was justified. The court just determines whether the use of force itself was justified and not the number of shots. This is mostly but not entirely true. If the threat stops, they're supposed to stop shooting. You're correct that there's no bright line specific number, but, e.g., if the target falls to the ground and stops moving after five shots, they're supposed to stop shooting after those five shots.
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May 1, 2023 19:20
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Xombie posted:A non-aggression pact that lasted literally less than a year. Turning slavic peoples into slaves was a pillar of Nazi ideology, as was the imaginary link between jews and Bolshevism. It was nearly 2 years but that's beside the point. Stalin told Molotov to "purge the ministry of Jews" after he replaced Litvinov in the run-up to the Pact, and again the USSR had no problem committing genocide against ethnic Poles while they and the Nazis stomped Poland into debris. So obviously Stalin was either dumb as poo poo or he somehow thought the guy who equated Bolsheviks and Jews was going to honor a deal. Or he just wanted more of Eastern Europe under the red star.
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May 1, 2023 19:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This is mostly but not entirely true. If the threat stops, they're supposed to stop shooting. You're correct that there's no bright line specific number, but, e.g., if the target falls to the ground and stops moving after five shots, they're supposed to stop shooting after those five shots. I mean... yeah. But, that wasn't the question he was asking and I thought it was pretty obvious that shooting the corpse/executing someone after they have been disarmed is not covered. If the use of force was justified, then you can put as many, or as few, bullets as you want in someone and it makes no difference legally.
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May 1, 2023 19:33
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Lol at people treating the anti-warning-shots arguments as genuine good faith attempts to limit collateral damage instead of an excuse by bloodthirsty Americans to immediately escalate to lethal violence whenever possible (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 1, 2023 19:46
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New York had a "no questions asked" voluntary gun buyback program and they ran out of money in one day after people turned in thousands of guns in less than 24 hours. I know it was "no questions asked," but I really want to talk to the people who are showing up at a church or city hall with a pile of ghost guns and assault rifles how they ended up with them and what led them to come to the buyback event. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1653020141418848256 quote:Thousands of guns -- including numerous assault-style rifles and "ghost guns" -- were surrendered in a single day over the weekend across the state of New York in exchange for gift cards, according to the state attorney general.
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May 1, 2023 19:48
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25 for each 3d printed gun, you say
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May 1, 2023 19:50
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gazza posted:Lol at people treating the anti-warning-shots arguments as genuine good faith attempts to limit collateral damage instead of an excuse by bloodthirsty Americans to immediately escalate to lethal violence whenever possible They already do that, they don't need a bad faith argument to get that because they already have that. The police already get to immediately escalate to lethal violence. Car stops can become lethal in literal minutes.
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May 1, 2023 19:50
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Google Jeb Bush posted:25 for each 3d printed gun, you say Yeah, I kinda hope they had a limit X per customer policy Since it's New York, I also hope they were all destroyed and we don't have one of those ridiculous laws that requires that guns turned over to law enforcement must be put back up for auction
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May 1, 2023 19:50
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Google Jeb Bush posted:25 for each 3d printed gun, you say https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-3D-printed-gun-buyback-program-17345782.php
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May 1, 2023 19:52
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Angry_Ed posted:It was nearly 2 years but that's beside the point. No. It was nearly 2 years between the pact and actual invasion, but Hitler was already planning the invasion in the winter/spring of 1940, and official invasion plans were already being solidified by the summer, as Operation Otto. Germany had 680,000 troops staged at the Romanian border by February 1941. quote:Stalin told Molotov to "purge the ministry of Jews" after he replaced Litvinov in the run-up to the Pact, and again the USSR had no problem committing genocide against ethnic Poles while they and the Nazis stomped Poland into debris. Yes, Stalin was an imbecile in that he actually may have thought Germany would honor the pact. That has little to do with the fact that Hitler absolutely never had any intention of honoring the pact. The ideology of Lebensraum always included eastern Europe. I'm not really sure where the argument that Hitler at some point didn't intend to invade the Russian sphere of influence jives with how it was entirely in his ideology, his plans, and the actual, historical reality wherein Hitler did in fact unilaterally invaded the eastern Europe exactly as he said he always planned to without any provocation. Xombie fucked around with this message at 20:03 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 19:59
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I think everyone is really underselling just how terribly trained with guns most American cops are. We have thousands of different departments and agencies and they all have their own rules. Most of them require almost no real range time, which results in cops walking around with loaded guns they are barely able to shoot. On top of that you have the two pillars of American Policing - Training tells you that everyone everywhere has weapons hidden all over their body, and they have also sworn blood oaths to satan to kill cops. - Most cops, in their entire career, will never fire their gun on duty. So when it does become time to fire the gun, it's being done so by a scared, all but unaccountable, barely familiar with the gun, officer. They're going to mag dump and miss most of their shots while setting off any nearby also terribly trained chicken shits to do the same. Talk about the efficacy of warning shots by pointing to Finland or some other police force are blindly ignoring American Police are so utterly terrible that we're still all better off with them murdering just a few people with Marvel's The Punisher force than encouraging them to try and miss. To get to the point where warning shots or shooting to wound might even be viable options, so much extensive and corrective training would have been done that it's nearly moot. We have something like 800,000 people running around with badges and guns. Our training is loving atrocious on the whole, and any reforms of force are about 99 steps away from pondering about actual precision shooting.
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May 1, 2023 20:03
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Dr Christmas posted:At the very, very least, they can stop telling cops that they can get isnt the lawlessness of the frontier and western expansion exaggerated?
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May 1, 2023 20:06
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Xombie posted:No. It was nearly 2 years between the pact and actual invasion, but Hitler was already planning the invasion in the winter/spring of 1940, and official invasion plans were already being solidified by the summer, as Operation Otto. Germany had 680,000 troops staged at the Romanian border by February 1941. Even then, the only people sure he wouldn't were Stalin and Soviet-allied leftists. But regardless of whether the Germans had their fingers crossed while they signed the pact, the Soviets played the alliance to the hilt for its full duration, whether it was going "lol nope" when the Polish started an otherwise reasonable plan to fight defensive war against a Nazi invasion, instructing French leftists not to resist the invasion and occupation, instructing American leftists to buddy up with the American Bund at anti-war rallies, or just totally turning their backs on the Nazis at the border after they went splitzies on a buffer state.
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May 1, 2023 20:21
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Killer robot posted:Partly true. The Nazis' desire to genocide and repopulate all Slavic lands regardless of existing system of government had as much to do with communism as the people of those lands fighting for their lives against an existential threat. In the Soviet Union's defense, the alliance with the Nazis didn't have much to do with communism either, it was just bog-standard revanchism from a bog-standard imperialist state that had no strong feelings about what the Hitler was doing in his own empire and was absolutely positive the leopards wouldn't eat its face. I'm pretty sure Stalin desperately tried to ally with anyone in Europe before doing the pact, but the liberal governments weren't interested
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May 1, 2023 20:24
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People are asking a lot of questions about my warning shot policy already answered by my warning shots
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May 1, 2023 20:28
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A big flaming stink posted:I'm pretty sure Stalin desperately tried to ally with anyone in Europe before doing the pact, but the liberal governments weren't interested There's a word for how he did it, but it's not "desperately." The Allies rejected letting Stalin in before the war because they reasonably suspected he wanted to have someone at his back while he conquered his own neighbors more than he wanted to rein in Hitler. They were objectively correct: when they did, Stalin immediately allied with the Nazis because he thought they would have his back while he conquered his own neighbors. He was devastatingly, ruinously wrong to the tune of millions of deaths that could have been avoided in a world where the Soviets actually treated fascism as the threat it clearly was before their own blood was drawn. But it wasn't just him that kept up his part of the deal: there were plenty of Western leftists who spent close to two years of war saying the Polish had it coming, that the French should surrender and accept German rule, that America should stay out of Europe's wars since fighting Nazis only serves capitalist war profiteers, and that antagonizing Hitler further would be bad for everyone, including and especially the Jews and the people of the occupied countries. In short, it was probably the most costly game of "I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face" in history. There's no question a lot of people in a lot of places played coy with Hitler and thought they could just cut practical deals with the fascists. Some of them learned from the experience and some did not. The people who immediately pivoted from backing Moltov-Ribbentrop because they weren't personally under Nazi occupation to creating a central myth of "we leftists, always the eternal enemies of fascism and imperialism even while the liberals capitulate  " are deep, deep into the second category. Most of them are dead now, but it applies just as well to people who with full benefit of hindsight and no personal culpability still ride it because they can't settle for riding the earned valor of past leftists but need to keep the unearned valor as well.
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May 1, 2023 20:29
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:New York had a "no questions asked" voluntary gun buyback program and they ran out of money in one day after people turned in thousands of guns in less than 24 hours. For these kinds of things I generally assume that the people involved are trying to sell their guns anyways and figure $500 bucks isn't a bad deal for a cheap gun. Not to mention if you steal someone's gun and then hand it over then you can make a tidy profit. That's kind of what kicks these buyback programs down, they are really expensive and you end up getting someone's *extra* gun, and the bad one at that. It's "saving lives" in the sense that someone buying a gun and then leaving it untouched in a gun safe til it rusts saves lives. I have absolutely no idea what would possess someone to hand over a non-AR platform rifle or antique gun for $75 unless it was either totally broken or really hot for some reason or another. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 20:32
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Is your contention that Britain and France would have been content to let Japan and Italy screw with their colonies, that fighting Japan and Italy wouldn't have eventually dragged in Germany, that Germany wouldn't have invaded France, or that none of these would have concerned the capitalists invested in those colonies (or France)? My contention is that it's wrong to see WW2 as the capitalists siding with commies over fascists, because they were attacked first, due to surrounding the fascists. It wasn't a decision made rationally or out of altruism, they didn't make the decision at all. Angry_Ed posted:So obviously Stalin was either dumb as poo poo or he somehow thought the guy who equated Bolsheviks and Jews was going to honor a deal. The USSR had spent five years trying to ally with the west against the Nazis. A French-Soviet agreement in 1935 was Hitler's justification for remilitarizng the Rhineland. The Soviets wanted to attack Germany to defend Czechoslovakia, but when the West decided on appeasement, the Soviets figured "if they'll sell out the Czechs, they'll sell us out too". Stalin was dumb as poo poo because he 1. had all his commanders shot and 2. sat there like a lemon because he thought Germany wouldn't be so stupid as to start a two-front war even when all his intelligence services and Britain's were reporting the Barbarossa buildup. And yes, he wanted former territories of the Russian Empire too.
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May 1, 2023 20:34
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CuddleCryptid posted:For these kinds of things I generally assume that the people involved are trying to sell their guns anyways and figure $500 bucks isn't a bad deal for a cheap gun. Not to mention if you steal someone's gun and then hand it over then you can make a tidy profit. That's kind of what kicks these buyback programs down, they are really expensive and you end up getting someone's *extra* gun, and the bad one at that. It's "saving lives" in the sense that someone buying a gun and then leaving it untouched in a gun safe til it rusts saves lives. Some of those people had a relative die, found the gun in their house, and just want to get rid of the thing without getting arrested. And a lot of non gun people have really weird ideas about what guns are worth. "That thing's an antique, no way it's worth anything" is something I've actually heard about a WW2 handgun.
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May 1, 2023 20:44
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Just an update on bank news: the feds orchestrated a sale of First Republic to JPMorgan who will acquire the entire bank. Shareholders wiped out but everyone else should be fine (well, most staff will be fine, I expect there might be some layoffs). The feds would prefer to minimize disruption so they set up sales to big banks that can afford to absorb the bank as a whole instead of carving it up. The feds chip in some money (taken from the FDIC fund which is funded by all banks essentially) since the bank essentially has negative value. This is identical to what happened with SVB and Credit Suisse and is the model for all bank failures from the current crisis. And it's really only small or medium sized banks that will go under because the big banks can absorb losses more easily and in the worst-case scenario, they are Too Big To Fail. koolkal fucked around with this message at 20:53 on May 1, 2023 |
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May 1, 2023 20:49
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The Soviets had no reason to want to invade Poland. Nope none… whistles… kicks a rock… no…sir…ree. I mean no direct intensely personal reason for Stalin either. I mean it’s not like there wasn’t… Commissar of the South-Western Front in the Polish Soviet war looking for personal glory… miracle at the Vistula, you say. To shreds, you say? Don’t let the narrative one thinks in override what things actually happened. That’s poor thinking and poor analysis not rooted in material events.
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May 1, 2023 20:54
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Bernie Sanders is likely going to announce that his Senate Committee has a reached a deal for a bipartisan bill to raise the minimum wage on Thursday. The bill is designed to be something that can pass both Houses, so it will likely only raise the minimum wage to $10 to $11 per hour. Unclear if this agreement extends to the House or not. Seems to be mostly symbolic because essentially no jobs are paying the federal minimum wage anymore. It was about 1.4% in 2021 and will likely be similar or even lower now if they moved it to ~$10 because of inflation and the labor shortage resulting in even traditionally minimum wage jobs, like McDonalds, paying $16 to $18 per hour minimum now. https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1653090698466410538
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May 1, 2023 20:54
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Professor Beetus posted:Why do cops need to put 85 bullets into a guy reaching for his wallet when one or two will do? The number of bullets it takes to incapacitate someone isn't consistent or predictable (especially given that cops often don't have great aim). Sometimes one shot's enough, sometimes it's not. If police are pulling their guns on someone in response to an immediate threat to life, then cops are trained to keep firing until they're absolutely loving sure the person is definitely, obviously, for-sure incapacitated. Moreover, police training in the US tends to encourage cops to think that their normal senses will underestimate the threat someone poses, and that they should be more aggressive in responding to potential threats than they would normally think. On top of that, police training tends to heavily emphasize the prevalence of gun ownership in American culture, and a guy with a knife is a lot easier to render harmless than a guy with a gun. Multiply that by several cops opening fire at the same time while the adrenalin is pumping, and there you go.
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May 1, 2023 21:10
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Main Paineframe posted:The number of bullets it takes to incapacitate someone isn't consistent or predictable (especially given that cops often don't have great aim). Sometimes one shot's enough, sometimes it's not. Well, thanks for the explanation. I think it's wrong on nearly every level and betrays a horrific mentality that leads to way more innocent and unarmed people being killed than cops' lives saved. But at least it makes sense in a vacuum.
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May 1, 2023 21:19
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Bernie Sanders is likely going to announce that his Senate Committee has a reached a deal for a bipartisan bill to raise the minimum wage on Thursday. Yeah, there's only 5 states with no minimum wage laws and the majority of states set a minimum higher than 10 dollars. Hell, if it's under 10.30 it won't even set off inflation from the last time they raised the federal minimum.
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May 1, 2023 21:27
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I'm just a plucky lil' guy, doin' the best I can! *carves up Poland with the Nazis* *invades half of Eastern Europe with Hitler's blessing* *deports exiled German communists as a gesture of good faith* *tries to join the loving Axis* MR defenders are easily the most lead-brained "UNGA BUNGA ME TRIBE YAY YOU TRIBE BOO" flavor of leftist. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 1, 2023 21:32
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Also with the goofy capitalists never help communists argument, the point of "Liberals side with fascists over communists" isn't that it's a perfect fact, it's that liberals as a cohort will assist fascists in achieving their goals and join them more readily than communists because both both ideologies support capitalism. The allies worked with the USSR to stop German expansionism. It wasn't to stop fascism as an ideology and they were not out there building the international. Post-WW2 history is then riddled with far right/fascist movements in post-colonial countries being supported by first world liberal governments to oppose communism. It's not about who's hands are the least bloody or whatever, it's an observation on how political cohorts have historically moved.
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May 1, 2023 21:39
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Main Paineframe posted:On top of that, police training tends to heavily emphasize the prevalence of gun ownership in American culture Then there's also overemphasisation of the danger of hidden blades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZpyKSmgdE Well dang, looks like there is an age limit on the video so it doesn't embed. It's Surviving Edged Weapons and there is no real gore or other NWS content, just a lot of acted 
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May 1, 2023 21:54
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Anyone know TX politics, does this guy have a shot against Ted Cruz? https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/01/allred-texas-senate-cruz-00094674
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May 1, 2023 22:13
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