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Stultus Maximus posted:What the poo poo? It was cheap as hell and kept my saws slick and rust free. Now what? Yeah, I wasn't super happy with my Minwax and went looking around just barely too late. Guess I'm stuck with it ... Not that there aren't alternatives, just sucks a staple is no more.
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May 4, 2023 03:32
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Epitope posted:Thinking of spending a bunch of money on tools. Table saw, miter saw, maybe a planer. Before I do, how do I learn to operate safely? Can I just read and watch videos, should I look for a class or something? I don't have any mentors in this realm. Check out Adam Savage then do the opposite His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 08:31 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 08:26
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Horton brasses is having a huge close out sale on a lot of their more traditional stuff. https://www.horton-brasses.com/clos..._eid=aaf572c8bc A company in England that made a ton of good brass quality reproduction stuff just suddenly decided to quit making them and it’s majorly hosed up the hardware world. Like half of Whitechapel’s catalog is discontinued and it looks like Horton is in the same boat. E: Actually I called them to place an order and talked to the owner and what they are discontinuing is stuff they made in house that’s just not profitable anymore as a whole. As he said, it’s 10% of their business and 50% of their headache. They’ll still have cast stuff from a different foundry in England available but aren’t doing stamping and stuff in house anymore. Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 15:12 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 13:19
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Another victim of brexit?
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May 4, 2023 13:24
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His Divine Shadow posted:Another victim of brexit? I have no idea. From what I understand they are still in business they just decided to stop producing a lot of their reproduction stuff. They were the only people who made brass casters of a decent quality and reasonable cost so I guess just don’t design furniture with casters anymore.
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May 4, 2023 13:38
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Skunkduster posted:Before making any operation on a power tool, think about what could go wrong and where your hands or body is going to be in relation to the tool if/when it does go wrong. The problem with that is that it takes education and experience to learn what can go wrong. I'd consider the table saw the most dangerous of the tools you mentioned. With any power tool, I have some personal rules - no long sleeves, no jewelry, no neckties/hoodie strings/apron straps/long hair or anything else that can dangle down and can get caught in the tool. With the table saw, there is a lot that can go wrong that isn't intuitive at all because there are a lot of factors in play when making a cut that you have no way of knowing about without education or experience. There are plenty of videos on youtube about table saw safety and accidents, so that would definitely be worth checking out. Regarding table saw safety: while I don't have one I did watch this guy's circular saw safety video when I got one of those and he seems to have a knack for explaining this stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN_w0OD6oIs
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May 4, 2023 14:06
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Don't use a table saw without a riving knife. My favorite kickback video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7sRrC2Jpp4 Matthias Wandels two long push sticks haven't steered me wrong yet, but make them from plywood or MDF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdIQY_7T26k
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May 4, 2023 14:13
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Steve from woodworking for mere mortals gives lots of good table saw safety guidance but I can't remember if he has a dedicated video. Stumpy nubs ditto.
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May 4, 2023 14:29
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I watched a video recently featuring an experienced woodworker that sliced his left pinkie off and left a deep cut on the left side of his hand. If I remember correctly, he was adjusting the height of the blade while it was running and the board he was holding in his left hand (on the left side of the blade) got pulled into the blade and took his hand with it. The two main things to take away from this is that you should never get lazy and complacent no matter how experienced you are and don't make any adjustments to the blade with it running if those adjustments can be made with it powered off. Off the top of my head, the only time I can think of when you would be adjusting the blade with it running is cutting a new slit in a zero clearance insert, but there may be other times when it is practical and safe to adjust it while it is running. The example above is not one of those times.
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May 4, 2023 14:51
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A lot of youtubers will use the Grrripper, and talk about how good it is, and a lot of older videos will be sponsored by microjig/the grrripper I bought one and I loving hate using it on my tablesaw. Real nice for router table or jointer or anywhere else I need some good grip on a piece but I'm much happier with two homemade wooden pushblocks on my tablesaw. I cribbed the design from Fisher's shop, so when they get too mangled up I can run it through my tablesaw to clean it up and glue on a fresh piece for the heel
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May 4, 2023 15:25
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Epitope posted:Thinking of spending a bunch of money on tools. Table saw, miter saw, maybe a planer. Before I do, how do I learn to operate safely? Can I just read and watch videos, should I look for a class or something? I don't have any mentors in this realm. Watch all the videos, if you can't find someone somewhere IRL who knows this stuff, check out vo-tech schools in your area. My personal tool-buying recommend would be just a nice bandsaw for starters. It's safer and more user-friendly than those you've mentioned, and you can make things from wood. NomNomNom posted:One of my legs came out a bit wonky but look at the flame That's purdy. What's the dark wood mortised in along the legs, is that for support? I must have missed class that day.
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May 4, 2023 15:45
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Sockser posted:A lot of youtubers will use the Grrripper, and talk about how good it is, and a lot of older videos will be sponsored by microjig/the grrripper I'll come in with the opposite, I love the grr-ripper. With push sticks, even with two of them, I never feel like I have as good control of the piece. The ability to give 3 directions of pressure -- down onto the table, into the fence, and forward through the blade feels much better than a chicken foot or shoe-based push stick. I also like that for narrow rips, the foot comes down to the table and keeps everything stable. The only downside to me is not being able to use the blade guard except when the fence is set wider than the width of the gripper. The only times I don't use the grr-ripper for rip cuts is when the piece is wide enough (like a big piece of plywood for a cabinet side or something) so my hands can be at least 18" or so from the blade, or when the rip is thin enough that I can't use it (and in that case, I'll either set up a featherboard and use two push sticks if it's just one cut, or use a thin rip jig if I need a bunch of uniform thin strips).
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May 4, 2023 17:16
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Mr. Mambold posted:Watch all the videos, if you can't find someone somewhere IRL who knows this stuff, check out vo-tech schools in your area. My personal tool-buying recommend would be just a nice bandsaw for starters. It's safer and more user-friendly than those you've mentioned, and you can make things from wood. This is a recent Rex Kruger project, the Moravian Stool. He's got two videos about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C3eIPtgO9U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbEiq8bHlA e, also I have the grr-rippper and push sticks for my table saw and I use the best tool for each operation. There are times where firm control is safest and times where it's best to keep my hands further away from the saw. I also use a magnetic featherboard which helps with a lot of operations, although it's sometimes difficult to position it when I'm using a nonmetallic insert like my zero-clearance one, because that's right where the featherboard wants to be stuck. My best advice for using the table saw is to take your drat time and if you're setting up a cut and it seems a bit janky, stop. Just stop. Go look up how to do that cut safely and if you can't find a good solution, use a different tool. It's just way too easy to be impatient and go "well I'll just be extra careful" and that's not the right approach. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:52 on May 4, 2023 |
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May 4, 2023 17:42
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Yup, it's walnut that's in a sliding dovetail. It beefs up the top in way of the mortises since the maple is pretty thin.  Did that on the router table, tapered the legs on the bandsaw and handplane, and turned the tenons on the lathe. Lots of scraping and sanding for the maple since it wanted to tear out badly.
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May 4, 2023 17:50
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In theory the design lets you build with no glue, just joinery, and using only thin planks and some sticks for the legs. The top could be two or more planks edge-jointed so they fit snugly and then the dovetailed cross pieces hold them in place with a tight snug fit that still allows for seasonal expansion, and if you mortise the legs through both sets as NomNomNom did they'll lock the top planks in place completely. So it'd be a very economical, albeit laborious, design for a society with not great access to big hunks of cheap wood.
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May 4, 2023 17:54
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I’ve been a big fan of the gripper for planer and router table as well. Also like it for ripping smaller things that are hard to hold. They just have to be in that narrow window of right sizes for it. But picture frames so far fit that niche well.
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May 4, 2023 18:06
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This style is often seen in North-European/German chairs, known there as a brettstuhl. Thin-ish seat with battens in a sliding dovetail to reinforce it, legs mortised through both to lock them in place, and wedged for good measure. Good way to make strong seats when you don't have access to thick, wide material.
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May 4, 2023 18:06
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Leperflesh posted:This is a recent Rex Kruger project, the Moravian Stool. He's got two videos about it: It's very pretty! But I have to ask, does the sliding dovetail bit serve any purpose other than decorative? e: question got answered while I was watching the video lol
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May 4, 2023 18:09
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alnilam posted:It's very pretty! But I have to ask, does the sliding dovetail bit serve any purpose other than decorative? E: just saw your edit
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May 4, 2023 18:13
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are there any keyword synonyms for "t-track"? I'm surprised that places like Princess Auto and Canadian Tire aren't selling it.
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May 5, 2023 17:11
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Dunno about Canada but it seems pretty easy to search for in the US. Rockler, Woodcraft, Amazon, Home Depot. How about this? https://store.workshopsupply.com/catalogue/blackjack-track-36-p-2954.html
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May 5, 2023 17:40
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CommonShore posted:are there any keyword synonyms for "t-track"? I'm surprised that places like Princess Auto and Canadian Tire aren't selling it. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/search#q=t%20track&t=product-search-tab&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=25
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May 5, 2023 17:43
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princess and canadian tire are the equivalents of harbor freight and no, they won't have the specific sizing of t-track made for woodworking clamps, it's too niche but another term you can search with is "extruded aluminum" although that's much broader and will get you a lot of non-t-track stuff.
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May 5, 2023 17:59
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CommonShore posted:are there any keyword synonyms for "t-track"? I'm surprised that places like Princess Auto and Canadian Tire aren't selling it. If you want cheap t-track, aliexpress/ebay are probably the best options.
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May 5, 2023 18:10
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Organizing the scrap. Around 200 square feet of 2x6 cedar, some in pretty good shape. I was thinking a planer to clean them up and remove the poo poo paint someone slathered on. Maybe turn some scrap into wood worth more than the tool. Is this a reasonable thing to do? I think the safety concern here is just make sure no screws remain, anything else?
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May 5, 2023 18:11
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screws, nails, staples, lead paint, etc
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May 5, 2023 18:18
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Epitope posted:Organizing the scrap. Around 200 square feet of 2x6 cedar, some in pretty good shape. I was thinking a planer to clean them up and remove the poo poo paint someone slathered on. Maybe turn some scrap into wood worth more than the tool. Is this a reasonable thing to do? I think the safety concern here is just make sure no screws remain, anything else? It’s gonna trash your planer knives even if you don’t hit any nails so price that in and be prepared to replace them. Paint is fairly abrasive to sharp tools. Definitely have good dust collection of some sort.
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May 5, 2023 18:25
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Thanks guysMr. Mambold posted:My personal tool-buying recommend would be just a nice bandsaw for starters. It's safer and more user-friendly than those you've mentioned, and you can make things from wood. Huh. I see a lot less out there about band saws. Is there a reason the hardware store wants to sell me the other ones instead? Also, is it for smaller scale? For reference, these are the types of work I see myself getting into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDDRwZ1MoLw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Dml53_h_c I'm definitely holding off on the table saw for now, y'all confirm that might be a risky one to dive in unassisted.
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May 5, 2023 20:57
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Well, part of what's going on there maybe that table saws and miter saws are job site tools, whereas a decent bandsaw is a lot less portable. If you're looking at job site demos, they'll be using (small, wobbly, lovely) table saws and (workhorse, powerful, solid) miter saws a lot. But you can rip on a bandsaw (and in fact, have far more resaw capacity and versatility than a table saw), provided you can position something for your infeed/outfeed support (I use portable stands for that). Except for ripping sheet goods, if you're breaking down 8x4s the throat limit on the bandsaw will be a big limitation. But if you only break down sheet goods from time to time, a handheld circular saw with a track is quite capable, you can lay down a pad of foam or work from sawhorses or whatever. e. jfc do not do what that dude did with his table saw in the first video. It's nice that he pointed out he's wearing PPE, but A) his blade is set way higher than it needs to be B) he's using nothing to guide the wood but his hands, no infeed or outfeed support, C) you can actually see the wood wobbling as he feeds it through he's absolutely begging for kickback. if you tweak the wood to one side or the other while the blade is engaged the blade wants to grab the wood and hurl it back at you. He's also working on the ground for some loving reason, jobsite saws have stands, don't work on your knees. ah god then he stands up with the blade still operating, and then leans down over the saw to try to turn it off, ugh Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 21:13
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Heh, that's part of why I posted those, I figured there were learning moments. Thanks, that clarifies a lot of the saw situation. Ya, I do have some 8 foot cuts to make on 8x4 sheets, but like you said, do it with the hand held. I might enjoy the ability to shelve things vs take up a whole corner, but a step towards turning the garage into a shop could be a benefit
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May 5, 2023 21:36
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CommonShore posted:are there any keyword synonyms for "t-track"? I'm surprised that places like Princess Auto and Canadian Tire aren't selling it. Busy Bee tools is another option. They sell online and have it at retail locations too. https://www.busybeetools.com/pages/store-locations.html
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May 5, 2023 21:37
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Epitope posted:Heh, that's part of why I posted those, I figured there were learning moments. Job site tools are heavily focused on the construction jobs and what they need. If your projects are construction type jobs, a portable table saw is certainly a useful tool! Those guys are not going for super high accuracy, they are going for fast, portable, and "good enough". They're also notorious for neglecting safety and having accidents. IMO a cabinet style table saw for the home woodworker is a far better tool but it's huge, expensive, heavy, etc. and that's a big reason for recommending a bandsaw first, especially given that it offers some types of cutting you can't do on a table saw, and a circular saw with a track adds back a lot of the functionality you lack with the bandsaw. So it's not exactly a 1:1 replacement, of course. But also bandsaws are inherently safer, there is basically no concern about kickback, the tool doesn't pull your hand in, and the most common failure mode is the thing jams and stops going, as opposed to hurling things around the shop. But job site guys don't really need a bandsaw. A portaband for cutting the occasional bit of metal, at the most. If you're planning to build an extension on your house, a portable dewalt table saw isn't a terrible idea.
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May 5, 2023 21:46
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The way I see it, the bandsaw vs. table saw decision basically breaks down as: Table saw: Pros: - Can make stopped cuts (not cutting all the way through the wood, e.g. for laps and dados) - Can make cuts anywhere in the length of the wood - Can have a big table that provides more support, room for jigs, ability to fit a fancy fence, etc - Cuts are fairly easy to keep straight; can get glue-ready cuts straight off the saw Cons: - The sawblade is sending force directly back at the user. One wrong step and you can have a 10+ pound hunk of wood getting hurled at 25MPH through your torso. - Good table saws require a lot of shop space - Can only make straight cuts - Somewhat large kerf Bandsaw: Pros: - The blade sends force straight down into the mass of the bandsaw. The only realistic danger to the user is if they physically touch the blade. - Can make curved cuts - Compact and fairly easy to fit into most shops - Can cut through very thick wood, e.g. to resaw planks into thinner planks Cons: - Can only cut across boards within a fairly limited distance of the end of the board (e.g. 13") - Must always cut through the wood, i.e. no stopped cuts - Keeping the blade on track is tricky; it's easy to make wobbly cuts that need to be cleaned up e.g. with a hand plane - Table tends to be small Neither of these grids accounts for the lovely cheap end of the tool spectrum. There's a lot of table saws and band saws out there that aren't worth using unless you really have no other option. Disclaimer: I am scared shitless by table saws and don't have one in my shop. Between my 14" bandsaw, router table, miter saw, and a hand plane, though, I'm able to do everything I want to.
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May 6, 2023 00:18
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I find the router table slightly scarier than the table saw, but I like that breakdown and about the only thing I'd add is that making certain angled/mitered cuts on the table saw can be a bit easier (you can tilt the blade) compared to the band saw (you tilt the table).
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May 6, 2023 00:38
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Bandsaw: I don't understand what you mean by this. You can absolutely make stopped cuts with a bandsaw. You can make tenons or half laps or notch out some flooring to fit around a post for example. Are you referring to something more along the lines of rabbet or dado cuts?
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May 6, 2023 00:39
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"(not cutting all the way through the wood, e.g. for laps and dados)" yeah looks like it
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May 6, 2023 00:40
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The biggest problem I have with recommending bandsaws for beginners is that a decent (read-usable, capable of ripping 8/4 stock) bandsaw starts at $900 ($1100 shipped) with the Grizzly 14" saw which is a *fine* saw but definitely not a great one, whereas you can walk out of any big box store with a basically okay 10" tablesaw for less than $400 and it will pretty much do all the things a table saw is supposed to do right out of the box, especially if you build it into a run off table of sorts. Sure there are lots of decent used bandsaws floating around for cheaper, but I'm always hesitant to recommend used machinery to people who may not know what to look for. A bandsaw also takes a decent bit more setup (and if it's not set up well, it can be incredibly frustrating to use) and you really ideally need a jointer with one, whereas that $400 table saw can straighten crooked boards and even make a sort of decent glue joint. I love bandsaws but I wouldn't recommend them as babby's first power tool (especially because they are really a piece of machinery) especially for someone who mostly is interested in framing and home improvement type stuff. Table saw is much better for that, and you can get the smallest sawstop for the price of a grizzly 14" bandsaw and remove some of the safety concerns! If you're a mostly handtool worker with some experience, then yeah, bandsaw is the perfect first machine and will save you so much hardship and misery.
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May 6, 2023 02:42
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I don't want to re-litigate the table saw vs. bandsaw debate, which has happened how many times in this thread already? All I'm trying to do is lay out the tradeoffs, as I see it. Cost is a con for bandsaws, for sure -- cheaper bandsaws are not worth bothering with. Though I think it's important to recognize the caveat you had with cheap table saws, that you really want to build them into a larger table. Good call on the bandsaw needing a lot more fine-tuning though. Also, a con on pretty much every power tool you buy is that the blade that ships with it sucks and you should buy a better one posthaste. Another option to consider is circular saw plus miter saw. Rip cuts will be painful to impossible depending on what exactly you want to do, and you'll need a lot of setup for anything complicated using the circular saw, but that's still a relatively cheap combination that can get a lot done. Regarding the Sawstop: sticking my hand in the blade doesn't scare me nearly as much as kickback does, and the Sawstop does nothing to prevent that. Obviously the Sawstop's safety mechanisms still have plenty of value, but they do not make the tool safe.
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May 6, 2023 04:23
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A circ saw + some simple jigs/guides can do a lot for rip cuts. Sometimes you'll need to clean them up, but that's going to be no worse than doing it with a hand saw, and often better than a band saw.
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May 6, 2023 16:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Regarding the Sawstop: sticking my hand in the blade doesn't scare me nearly as much as kickback does, and the Sawstop does nothing to prevent that. Obviously the Sawstop's safety mechanisms still have plenty of value, but they do not make the tool safe. If your main concern is your personal sense of wellbeing, whatever, that's subjective. If your main concern is actually avoiding injury you should be about 8x as scared of sticking your hand in the blade and some extremely basic safety measures like not standing directly behind the stock will essentially eliminate your risk from kickback
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May 6, 2023 17:11
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