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D-Pad posted:There's not any instances in the lore that show a soul going to the emperor upon death, that's just what in universe imperials believe. There are several instances in lore that show a soul being torn apart by demons in the warp immediately after dying. Even Celestine's soul doesn't go to the emperor but wakes up in a weird place in the warp and has to fight and gather her armor and sword and stuff and escape to be reborn. If I recall right, there's one such scene in Imperial Glory, one of the guard books. I don't have it handy at the moment though. The afterlife definitely sucks though.
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May 4, 2023 23:43
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not to get all “lorgar was right about literally everything” but doesn’t that kinda make chaos worship the only logical way to live? if your soul is going to hell no matter what you might as well try to delay the inevitable while working toward a middle management position
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May 5, 2023 01:23
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D-Pad posted:There's not any instances in the lore that show a soul going to the emperor upon death, that's just what in universe imperials believe. There are several instances in lore that show a soul being torn apart by demons in the warp immediately after dying. Even Celestine's soul doesn't go to the emperor but wakes up in a weird place in the warp and has to fight and gather her armor and sword and stuff and escape to be reborn. I think maybe its in Titandeath, where one of the titan princeps dies and her titan saves her soul from being dragged into the warp by demons, by absorbing her into the eternal hunting grounds in the titan. Or something like that. So theyve got that going.
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May 5, 2023 01:37
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Telsa Cola posted:Yeah the primarchs legit kneeling is just kinda mind boggling to have has a throw away line. We know that Iskandar is not really a reliable narrator, and that the Black Legion engages in MASSIVE propaganda efforts to make Abbadon the invincible king poo poo of the warp. I fully believe that Lorgar just gave his blessing after some haggling and sermons, Pert got hooked in by the promise of an iron domain in realspace, and maybe Magnus was made to 'kneel' by having a mental dual/link with Khayon and being made to see his 'folly' from his son's side.
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May 5, 2023 02:35
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:im not sure if I really get what souls are in warhammer. what’s the typical scenario for a dude just up and dying? soul goes to the warp? with all the daemons? seems bad! what if you pledge your souls to a God? do other race souls work differently? do custodes have souls? primarchs? servitors? so you die, your soul goes into the warp and is immediately ripped apart by daemons if you've pledged yourself to a god but aren't strong enough in your faith, same deal if you are strong enough, you get repurposed but it's not you anymore it's just your entire soul went down one particular funnel and now you're an infinitesimal part of the comically vast whirlpool that makes up khorne or the emperor if you've managed to live your faith hard enough you fight a bunch of Daemons and come back as a Daemon Prince or a Living Saint and are effectively immortal in that when you get got you just get banished into the Warp because Emps isn't strong enough for full godhood living saints can be permanently killed, that's the only difference between them and daemon princes Nobody knows this in-canon and everything you just read is enough to get your entire city killed
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May 5, 2023 02:50
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Cyborging yourself up does something to your soul. Very borged up Ironhands are apparently very hard to track down with whatever that psyker soul sense thing is called.Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:not to get all “lorgar was right about literally everything” but doesn’t that kinda make chaos worship the only logical way to live? if your soul is going to hell no matter what you might as well try to delay the inevitable while working toward a middle management position Eldar have work arounds and its not a no matter what type of thing. The Chaos gods were freaked out enough about the Emperors plans to remove humanity from that equation that they got involved probablly more than they ever had in galatic history, and there is a fair amount of evidence and other pieces of background lore that suggest that some of his various plans would have worked. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 03:02 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 02:55
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Ghislaine of YOSPOS posted:not to get all “lorgar was right about literally everything” but doesn’t that kinda make chaos worship the only logical way to live? if your soul is going to hell no matter what you might as well try to delay the inevitable while working toward a middle management position No, because the only worse thing than dying and maybe having daemons rip your soul to shreds is painting a big honking "EAT ME, DAEMONS" on yourself before dying and definitely having daemons rip your soul to shreds. Chaos has been shown to be a suckers bet in almost every circumstance, even the best at tap dancing on the edge of that cliff are hosed if they slip. Looking at you, Huron Blackheart. e: Though you can make the argument that Grampy Nurgle would protect you from really feeling/minding it, and that Slaanesh would at least give you some screaming orgasms side by side with your annihilation. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 03:03 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 03:00
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The correct reaction to learning that the Chaos Gods are real is to dedicate your life to fighting the Chaos Gods, not serving them. If you scab, you're a coward and an rear end in a top hat.
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May 5, 2023 03:05
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Eldar souls all go straight to Slaanesh because when they murderfucked themselves to death they created Them. Unless they've got a Soulstone handy, which gives them a place to hide. It's different now that they managed to recreate their Death God as well. Tau souls are dross and dissipate, except for Ethereal souls which get ripped apart. Tyranids don't have souls/don't actually die except for maybe the Norn Queens. Necrons extra don't have souls. Orks and grots are actually a fungal hivemind so when an orc or grot dies Gork and/or Mork lovingly throw it back into the soul mass to be reborn with no memories unless you're especially funny in which case they throw you back into a body that nobody else was using.
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May 5, 2023 03:13
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The true pro move in the 40k universe is to up stakes to a frontier world that isn't controlled by any of the factions and live a good life. At the very least you'll get some decent years in before you're Complianced/Waaaghed/Enslaved/Killed by Sleepy Necrons 'Neath Your Feet/Turned Into Biomass/Sucked Into the Warp/Exterminated to maybe save 1 Eldar life 500 years later.
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May 5, 2023 03:14
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habeasdorkus posted:The true pro move in the 40k universe is to up stakes to a frontier world that isn't controlled by any of the factions and live a good life. At the very least you'll get some decent years in before you're Complianced/Waaaghed/Enslaved/Killed by Sleepy Necrons 'Neath Your Feet/Turned Into Biomass/Sucked Into the Warp/Exterminated to maybe save 1 Eldar life 500 years later. One of the low pop, low tax imperial worlds would likely be fine. I feel like the higher tech an imperial world you get the shittier everything is because all the cyberpunk poo poo.
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May 5, 2023 03:48
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Nice Imperial worlds exist, but only to be extra tragic when they get invaded by orkz/chaos/necons/nids
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May 5, 2023 03:53
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there are uncounted trillions who will be born, live, and die in basically the same kilometer of space sometimes the same room in the same hab unit
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May 5, 2023 03:54
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Improbable Lobster posted:Nice Imperial worlds exist, but only to be extra tragic when they get invaded by orkz/chaos/necons/nids Baal Solock seemed pretty okay and had only a slight Dark Eldar infestation. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 5, 2023 |
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May 5, 2023 03:54
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I was thinking of purchasing "Unholy: Tales of horror and woe from the imperium" has anyone here read it and do you have any thoughts if so?
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May 5, 2023 04:18
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Biotransference doesn't seem like such a bad deal for the Necrons in retrospect Also the best thing you can do in 40k is be born in the Leagues of Votann, don't be an antisocial weirdo and upon death get your brain (and possibly soul?) uploaded into the super computer that is the repository of all the knowledge of your entire society.
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May 5, 2023 04:19
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AnEdgelord posted:Biotransference doesn't seem like such a bad deal for the Necrons in retrospect Well, up until you have a panic attack everytime you notice you're not breathing
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May 5, 2023 04:32
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Or if you were one of the many that didn't get left with a personality
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May 5, 2023 04:33
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sharknado slashfic posted:Well, up until you have a panic attack everytime you notice you're not breathing Just gotta keep yourself busy with a hobby. Perhaps curating a museum?
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May 5, 2023 04:34
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The Votann ancestor cores are basically putting your brain in a computer and pretending that's immortality instead of at best something that thinks it's you. Your soul still gets eaten.
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May 5, 2023 04:40
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Relevant Tangent posted:The Votann ancestor cores are basically putting your brain in a computer and pretending that's immortality instead of at best something that thinks it's you. Your soul still gets eaten. See you would think that but for some reason the Votann shine in the warp like mini-Astronomicons so SOMETHING psychic is going on with them
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May 5, 2023 04:44
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It randomly occurred to me to look for Gaunt's Ghosts fanfiction, and I found precisely one that isn't about Gaunt's sexcapades.
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May 5, 2023 06:14
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FPyat posted:It randomly occurred to me to look for Gaunt's Ghosts fanfiction, and I found precisely one that isn't about Gaunt's sexcapades. No sexcapades? No thanks
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May 5, 2023 09:12
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AnEdgelord posted:Biotransference doesn't seem like such a bad deal for the Necrons in retrospect There's a strong implication that the Necrons aren't the Necrontyr, just immortal robots with their memories. Normally this would be one of those "do Star Trek teleporters kill you" kind of endless arguements, but in universe, souls exist and can be transferred from one vessel to another. Necrons explicitly do not have souls. They were eaten by the C'Tan.
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May 5, 2023 09:21
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FPyat posted:It randomly occurred to me to look for Gaunt's Ghosts fanfiction, and I found precisely one that isn't about Gaunt's sexcapades. My favourite tag is 'Not So Well Meaning Misogyny'
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May 5, 2023 10:50
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:There's a strong implication that the Necrons aren't the Necrontyr, just immortal robots with their memories. Normally this would be one of those "do Star Trek teleporters kill you" kind of endless arguements, but in universe, souls exist and can be transferred from one vessel to another. While I agree that the original necrontyr are dead and gone, I do not buy the idea of just robots with memories. Judging by Trazyn's private thoughts in the Infinite and the Divine, necrons with their mind intact are more than robots with memories but less than the original necrontyr. Biotransference removed or diminished some of their faculties, like artistic skills, and yet they retain things like intuition, which they shouldn't and can't explain how. Newcrons are such an interesting faction, most human than many.
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May 5, 2023 11:20
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Having some real trouble figuring out if I should use my next audible token for The Infinite and the Divine or The Hollow Mountain, or if I should just upgrade my plan and get both. I need something good after Deathfire.
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May 5, 2023 11:30
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Black Griffon posted:Having some real trouble figuring out if I should use my next audible token for The Infinite and the Divine or The Hollow Mountain, or if I should just upgrade my plan and get both. I need something good after Deathfire. You’ll want to read them both at some point I’d say. If you read Hollow Mountain you’ll want the sequel as well though…
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May 5, 2023 11:34
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Yeah, I guess the question is whether to read all of VoT in one go or not.
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May 5, 2023 11:43
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Angry Lobster posted:While I agree that the original necrontyr are dead and gone, I do not buy the idea of just robots with memories. Oh they're still people, but they don't have souls as understood by the setting. The Necrontyr died, the Necrons are their minds in unliving matter (as appropriate for Space Undead). Though imo I think if they survive and adapt, the Necrons may develop something resembling souls. Machines in 40K have semi-spontaneously developed them in the past. Oltyx's arc in the Twice Dead King books also suggests the species is on some kind of journey, with various individuals developing and changing in response to their situation. Some kind of horrible, horrible journey.
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May 5, 2023 11:50
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Oh they're still people, but they don't have souls as understood by the setting. The Necrontyr died, the Necrons are their minds in unliving matter (as appropriate for Space Undead). It might happen, yeah. In fact being able to change into something else would be a way to escape their slow path to extiction.
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May 5, 2023 13:37
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Man, I want the two of the Four to resurrect Albard and Raeven Devine after ten thousand years so they can continue their horrid little sibling rivalry under the aspects of chaos. I love that Graham just decided to do a tiny little Game of Thrones with one dreadful family. Albard fell to Slaneesh so that one is obvious. Raeven was a bloodthirsty (K) schemer (T) who ended his day as a bloated corpse in a drainage ditch (N) so I guess he could go to bat for any of the three remaining ones.
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May 5, 2023 16:30
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wiegieman posted:The correct reaction to learning that the Chaos Gods are real is to dedicate your life to fighting the Chaos Gods, not serving them. If you scab, you're a coward and an rear end in a top hat. Eh. 80% of the things that count as 'fighting' the chaos gods end up fueling them, and the rest usually empower something just as horrible. 40k is like a game of "Yeah I'm not drinking Pepsi anymore because it's evil....I'll drink this beverage from the came comapny instead! Or something from this other, differently horrid conglomerate!". So orks and nurgleites have the best approach. It's all hosed, just enjoy the ride.
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May 5, 2023 16:48
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The grey (gray) knights being immune to chaos has always rubbed me the wrong way
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May 5, 2023 16:49
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I mean, from a certain perspective and according to a certain set of theories they're maybe not immune to chaos but a secret third thing?
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May 5, 2023 16:54
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euphronius posted:The grey (gray) knights being immune to chaos has always rubbed me the wrong way They're all psychics who are bound to the Big E, and it's been suggested (in the old trilogy) that they have purity seals literally ingrained in their bones. They're basically sanctioned super psykers who may or may not also be the Emp's Geneseed, and be led by the good part of Magnus.
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May 5, 2023 17:11
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Isn't there a Marine chapter out there that intentionally has candidates become possessed by a daemon so they can perform exorcisms? The ones that survive the exorcism continue on with their training and apparently the exorcism provides a layer of protection against further daemonic possession attempts?
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May 5, 2023 17:14
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Arc Hammer posted:Isn't there a Marine chapter out there that intentionally has candidates become possessed by a daemon so they can perform exorcisms? The ones that survive the exorcism continue on with their training and apparently the exorcism provides a layer of protection against further daemonic possession attempts? Yes, the Exorcists. They're pretty loving crazy, to be clear.
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May 5, 2023 17:16
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I remember reading one excerpt/passage that regarding the Exorcists' use of possession: The marine was possessed by a daemon. Thankfully for the marine, his willpower was strong enough to resist the daemon, and with the aid of the Chaplains/Librarius/etc., the daemon was thrown out of the body. However, on the way out, the daemon decided that if it couldn't possess the body, no one else could either, and burned out the marine's ability to feel strong emotion. Later in the story, another daemon tries to possess the same marine, but because of the previous daemon's actions, finds him to be essentially a poisoned well, and nopes out.
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May 5, 2023 17:38
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Yeah the Exorcists are great. I love all the weirder space marine chapters. There are also the Death Spectres. When they first start as an aspirant they are injected with a toxin that straight up kills them dead and they have to revive themselves before their soul is consumed by the warp. Then at the end of their time as an aspirant it happens again but even more arduous as they are usually dead for hours or days fighting to get back to their body in this weird warp liminal space. Also, their chapter master is always permanently enthroned on the Throne of Glass which seems to be like a less powerful Golden Throne. There are a couple of really good short stories about them. The Black Dragons are cool too. The space marine anthology The Successors that released last year has stories from most of the weird chapters and was really good.
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May 5, 2023 17:40
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