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Blood Boils posted:When ~in the OT films~ do we learn that Vader is a cyborg "More machine than man" His breathing and the fancy blinking chest piece Seeing him slightly unmasked in ESB, with all the horrific scarring tying into Obi-Wan's earlier statement Seeing him take a lightsaber hit without much issue in his duel with Luke (when previously they'd cut off limbs and killed Obi-Wan) Having his hand cut off and exposing wiring (which was previously seen with Luke's robot hand getting damaged in the same film)
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May 6, 2023 21:50
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Isn't most of that in RotJ?
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May 6, 2023 21:55
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You can wonder what the deal is with his armor and his breathing in A New Hope, but only when you catch a glimpse of his hosed up head do you realize "ah, that's something he needs to wear."
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May 6, 2023 22:06
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Bongo Bill posted:General Grievous commands the droid army. Killing him will end the war, as without him, the scattered CIS will be unable to maintain the organization of their last desperate offensive. He's a Jedi killer to remind the audience that Jedi are mortal and can be beaten by conventional means; even the highly formidable Obi-Wan has to abandon the Jedi arts and kill him with a gun instead. Both of these details set up Order 66: as soon as Grievous is confirmed dead, Palpatine has no need of the Jedi any longer, so he wastes no time in exterminating them, which has been shown to be possible. I do like this but it definitely feels like a justification after the fact of "what's a cool toy to put in the next3 one and what wacky lightsaber gimmick can we give him" Also now that I'm deep in Clone Wars (around middle S5 now) it's more interesting what hasn't been filled in; not only is Grievous rarely in it, but nothing has ever really been expounded upon with him beyond the cackling Generic Bad from Ep3. The weird power dynamic between him and Dooku in the show where Dooku is his boss he hates isn't really present in the movie either, though I guess how could it be when Dooku dies immediately lol Also, does Grievous know that Palpatine is secretly behind everything? I feel like they imply that Dooku is in on the general plan, but I can't remember if Grievous ever meets Sidious in the show or whatever?
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May 6, 2023 22:28
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Wolfsheim posted:I do like this but it definitely feels like a justification after the fact of "what's a cool toy to put in the next3 one and what wacky lightsaber gimmick can we give him" Cool designs usually make for fun toys. Grievous makes a phone call to Sidious in ROTS. It’s a fun movie, should you decide to watch it. Kart Barfunkel fucked around with this message at 22:40 on May 6, 2023 |
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May 6, 2023 22:38
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PT6A posted:And the confusing aspect really has nothing to do with the filming, it's that if you don't remember some details from the opening crawl, the actual plot seems very weird and hard to understand. Obviously this is not a problem when you understand the background after watching the films once or twice, but it's pretty disorienting the first time. hes dope as hell
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May 6, 2023 22:38
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Cool designs usually make for fun toys. Lol whoops! To be fair I told myself I'd pull a "watch the entire Clone Wars" before hitting Ep3 this time and its taking way longer than I expected so my memory of the details is dim...
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May 6, 2023 22:41
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Obviously the cis are the enemy in real life. But what does CIS stand for in Star Wars?
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May 6, 2023 23:02
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Vim Fuego posted:Obviously the cis are the enemy in real life. But what does CIS stand for in Star Wars? Confederacy of Independent Systems
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May 6, 2023 23:05
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I just saw that there's a popular fantheory that Padme died because Sidious siphoned her life force and I cannot emphasize how much contempt I have for this kind of thinking
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May 6, 2023 23:08
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cuntman.net posted:you guys are this close to saying he should have had an intro movie marvel style be careful guys Grievous did have an intro movie. It's season 2 of the 2003 Clone Wars show by Gennady Tartakovsky. It's really good. S2 introduces him stalking and murdering a group of Jedi, and then going on to the actual kidnapping of the Chancellor. It leads directly into the start of RotS. The two should be watched back-to-back and considered a single story.
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May 6, 2023 23:11
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mllaneza posted:Grievous did have an intro movie. It's season 2 of the 2003 Clone Wars show by Gennady Tartakovsky. It's really good. S2 introduces him stalking and murdering a group of Jedi, and then going on to the actual kidnapping of the Chancellor. It leads directly into the start of RotS. The two should be watched back-to-back and considered a single story. That's a different character, though. Clone Wars 2003 has basically what the Jedi *think* they are and what's going on where Mace can crush entire droid armies at once and Grevious is a super scary intimidating dude instead of Snidely Whiplash.
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May 6, 2023 23:35
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They try to amend that by having Mace Windu force-crush Grievous’ chest right before he takes off to do his thing in episode 3. It’s a fun attempt at continuity but ultimately I don’t think works. The prerelease hype around Grievous really sold a character much more like what was in those early clone wars episodes. I was a hopeless child nerd subscribed to Star Wars Insider and devoured everything I could before the movie, and they were always pretty open about the behind the scenes process on those movies (for the right price…Hyperdrive subscribers, what was it like?).
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May 6, 2023 23:51
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Vim Fuego posted:Obviously the cis are the enemy in real life. What the gently caress.
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May 7, 2023 00:16
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Grievous' backstory is kinda the perfect encapsulation of the Expanded Universe in that it doesn't line up with the actual character in the movies very well because it was an entirely different creative team. You can tell that Genndy just got Grievous' character design, a description of him being a Jedi killer who collects lightsabers, and went off from that.
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May 7, 2023 00:23
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McCloud posted:I just saw that there's a popular fantheory that Padme died because Sidious siphoned her life force and I cannot emphasize how much contempt I have for this kind of thinking I feel like george kinda opened the door to that kind of thinking when he had palpatine make the force birth anakin. I feel like he actually escaped a lot of heat for it because they only fully committed to that right before the sale threw it out again. Both are just wretched stuff in my opinion, but I don't really blame the fans that much since it's sort of just picking up what canon was putting down
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May 7, 2023 00:30
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No Mods No Masters posted:I feel like george kinda opened the door to that kind of thinking when he had palpatine make the force birth anakin. no he didn't
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May 7, 2023 00:54
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its georges fault for coming up with star wars
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May 7, 2023 01:18
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ungulateman posted:no he didn't My understanding is he wanted to put it in episode 3 outright but wussed out and left it as a possible implication in the opera scene. Then a hack was later given permission to confirm it in a novel. I guess he didn't say it to camera but it was unquestionably a george idea. e: Really it dovetails doubly in the modern day because it's also a power palpatine is explicitly shown to have in our beloved film star wars 9. I don't deny this is all detestable, but I'd blame the films before I blame the people sad enough to be fans of them No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 7, 2023 |
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May 7, 2023 01:22
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cuntman.net posted:its georges fault for coming up with star wars harsh but fair
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May 7, 2023 01:39
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I haven't rewatched it since it came out but I thought in the movie itself there's no implication that Palpatine's son and granddaughter were made through anything but the old fashioned way, which is why Sheev Fucks became a meme.
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May 7, 2023 02:00
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mycot posted:I haven't rewatched it since it came out but I thought in the movie itself there's no implication that Palpatine's son and granddaughter were made through anything but the old fashioned way, which is why Sheev Fucks became a meme. Sorry, I see how my post was ambiguous. I meant that in star wars 9 he has the life force draining powers originally at issue in this topic, he uses them on reylo to heal his burned fingers or whatever the gently caress
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May 7, 2023 02:04
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Killing Dooku at the beginning serves several purposes. Anakin does an understandable but bad thing at Sheev’s encouragement for act 1. Sheev removes a dubiously loyal pawn who knows the actual nature of the war and can focus on Anakin. Sheev going “oh well we can’t end the war while General Dastardly is around” feels as weird to the audience as the Jedi. Grievous isn’t as big of a personal threat as Dooku so it gives a story sensible reason for Obi-wan and Anakin to be split up.
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May 7, 2023 02:38
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In Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine, a kind of father figure to Anakain, the product of immaculate conception, seemingly randomly brings up how he knows about a cool Sith way of creating life, while the two of them sit and watch a weird opera full of sperm and egg imagery. The movie is saying that he had some sort of hand in Anakin's conception. I never liked how extraneous material said "no." Star Wars 9 retroactively supports the Palpatine is Anakin's father theory.
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May 7, 2023 03:01
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Wolfsheim posted:Also now that I'm deep in Clone Wars (around middle S5 now) it's more interesting what hasn't been filled in; not only is Grievous rarely in it, but nothing has ever really been expounded upon with him beyond the cackling Generic Bad from Ep3. The weird power dynamic between him and Dooku in the show where Dooku is his boss he hates isn't really present in the movie either, though I guess how could it be when Dooku dies immediately lol
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May 7, 2023 03:04
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No Mods No Masters posted:My understanding is he wanted to put it in episode 3 outright but wussed out and left it as a possible implication in the opera scene. Then a hack was later given permission to confirm it in a novel. I guess he didn't say it to camera but it was unquestionably a george idea. one of the disney-era comics has a panel that could be misread as support for the theory, which the publisher and team who worked on it then came out and said 'it's an allegory you nitwits'. in much the same way that 'jedi master sifo-dyas' was originally palpatine wearing a hood during early scripts, the idea that anakin used to be a science experiment done by palpatine and his old master is an idea that makes the themes of the story very literal, but this was decided against because it makes the story worse (in the former case because it makes the jedi complete morons rather than just idiots, in the latter because it's too much of a contrivance even by star wars standards). the expanded universe is really just an extended exercise in taking the themes of the movies and making them overly literal. even the good stuff (mostly the couple of novels matt stover wrote) are like this. palpatine is anakin's dad, both in spite of and because of his immaculate conception. anakin is worried as hell about being a dad because he never had a dad - and his male role models are all kind of crap, with palpatine being the least bad - and he's worried about his wife dying because the last time there was a mother figure in his life, she died because he wasn't good enough. the opera scene is a conversation about anakin's anxieties about what's going on, and palpatine is offering the galaxy's worst fatherly advice. ungulateman fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 7, 2023 |
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May 7, 2023 03:27
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Was a good meme though
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May 7, 2023 03:43
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mllaneza posted:Grievous did have an intro movie. It's season 2 of the 2003 Clone Wars show by Gennady Tartakovsky. It's really good. S2 introduces him stalking and murdering a group of Jedi, and then going on to the actual kidnapping of the Chancellor. It leads directly into the start of RotS. The two should be watched back-to-back and considered a single story. And he kills Jedi Shaggy!
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May 7, 2023 04:12
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Detective No. 27 posted:In Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine, a kind of father figure to Anakain, the product of immaculate conception, seemingly randomly brings up how he knows about a cool Sith way of creating life, while the two of them sit and watch a weird opera full of sperm and egg imagery. The movie is saying that he had some sort of hand in Anakin's conception. I never liked how extraneous material said "no." Star Wars 9 retroactively supports the Palpatine is Anakin's father theory. What complicates this is that there is a very sensible narrative reason for all the focus on creating life and conception imagery to be there even if there's no familial connection between those two characters: Anakin feels guilty at impregnating Padme (who he shouldn't be married to) and is catastrophizing her upcoming childbirth.
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May 7, 2023 04:27
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Palpatine didn’t create Anakin, because that makes no sense. He only brings up the ‘virgin birth’ thing to support to his claim that resurrecting the dead through alchemy is plausible. Any ‘fatherliness’ on Palpatine’s part is a byproduct of the actual subtext, where he replaces Padme and assumes the role of Anakin’s older wife.
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May 7, 2023 04:54
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It's cannon Palpatine has no artistic tastes and like watching stupid poo poo with dumb dumbs
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May 7, 2023 06:41
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Given the Sith are basically just fascists, makes sense.
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May 7, 2023 07:14
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In ROTS Palpatine tells Anakin that Darth Plagueis had the power to 1) influence midichlorians to create life, 2) keep people from dying and that he taught his apprentice everything he knew. Later he admitts that he doesn't actually have the power to keep people from dying. That strongly implies that he also doesn't know how to create life (which is not something Anakin cares about at the moment though). It leaves open the possibility that Plagueis created Anakin (though the competing theory implied by Qui-Gon is that he was created by the force itself) but we really have no reason to think that Sidious created Anakin.
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May 7, 2023 11:00
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And he kills Jedi Shaggy! Yoiks!
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May 7, 2023 11:17
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Also I've said before but all the secret apprentice poo poo with the Sith does serve a purpose to flat out show that the standard method of Sith apprenticeship is literally just the cycle of abuse.
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May 7, 2023 13:02
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Detective No. 27 posted:In Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine, a kind of father figure to Anakain, the product of immaculate conception, seemingly randomly brings up how he knows about a cool Sith way of creating life, while the two of them sit and watch a weird opera full of sperm and egg imagery. The movie is saying that he had some sort of hand in Anakin's conception. I never liked how extraneous material said "no." Star Wars 9 retroactively supports the Palpatine is Anakin's father theory. Tell me you don't know what the immaculate conception is without saying you don't know what the immaculate conception is. (Mary was born without Original Sin. That's the immaculate conception. Jesus is the virgin birth.)
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May 7, 2023 19:15
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Also the Catholic Church adopted the immaculate conception as dogma in the 1850s, which is why just about anyone who wasn’t raised Catholic has no clue what the gently caress it’s supposed to be
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May 8, 2023 01:02
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The scene of Shmi telling Qui Gon about where Anakin came from can be read…from a few angles.
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May 8, 2023 01:04
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Zoran posted:Also the Catholic Church adopted the immaculate conception as dogma in the 1850s, which is why just about anyone who wasn’t raised Catholic has no clue what the gently caress it’s supposed to be Huh! I always assumed that whole bit was pre-reformation. It seems way too complicated to be a (relatively) recent addition.
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May 8, 2023 01:12
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Seems pretty cut and dry to me Palpatine doing wizard hands at her womb always makes me laugh
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May 8, 2023 01:32
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