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mikemil828 posted:Sound like what you guys want is a survival mode type deep dungeon where instead of going down a bunch of levels you stay in place and fight increasingly large and varied numbers of mobs. I feel like deep dungeons need some kind of image rehabilitation, because a bunch of people say they want stuff that fits pretty much exactly what they are, but are just sorta blind to them unless they're already really into deep dungeons. I think the most infuriating thing I saw said on Twitter about the 'content drought' was someone saying that this would really be solved if there was 'small party roguelike kinda content'... and they were saying this less than a week after Eureka Orthos released. How are deep dungeons just Not A Thing to people despite being exactly what they want? Is it because the public perception of them is just as powerleveling central and so they never consider them as anything more than that?
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May 10, 2023 03:00
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Cleretic posted:I feel like deep dungeons need some kind of image rehabilitation, because a bunch of people say they want stuff that fits pretty much exactly what they are, but are just sorta blind to them unless they're already really into deep dungeons. I think the most infuriating thing I saw said on Twitter about the 'content drought' was someone saying that this would really be solved if there was 'small party roguelike kinda content'... and they were saying this less than a week after Eureka Orthos released. Because they suck rear end. To be more specific, if you want hard small group content, that certainly exists in Deep Dungeons. And every time you want to engage with that content you have to drag your way through a whole bunch of not-difficult content before you can get to the part that is hard. Nevermind all the farming you have to do beforehand to get your bits to +99. It's a slog and lots of people aren't going to want to engage with it just because of that.
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May 10, 2023 03:17
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I do wish they would have integrated the extra action system from Bozja/Eureka into it, but that's probably a lot more work than what they did.
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May 10, 2023 03:24
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Agreed that the deep dungeons are some of FF14's most disappointing content. Like... what if we took dungeons, replaced all the setpieces with randomly generated terrain, multiplied the trash fights by fifteen, added random bullshit trap nonsense, and you have a timer so go fast. Just terrible.
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May 10, 2023 03:53
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the traps and timer are the good parts. the other parts are bad.
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May 10, 2023 04:33
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I feel no desire to do more HoH or Orthos runs after getting one and two clears respectively, and no desire to do PotD 200. It felt good to get a week 1 Orthos clear but I haven't felt the desire to get the other two clears to get the mount, and the fun ran out for me during HoH's later floors really.Oneiros posted:was thinkin' 'bout this thread as i just ran the back half of the last dungeon without a tank at all, mob pulls and bosses both. the busters couldn't even kill a machinist, lmao (this is a bad joke please don't yell at me)
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May 10, 2023 04:36
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Failboattootoot posted:Because they suck rear end. This. It's got a ton of boring grinding and it takes a long drat time to complete. In WoW I can run a high M+ key in 25 minutes or so with a group of pugs, and that's it. I'm done. I can find a new group, I can go do something else, whatever. The deep dungeons are like "Okay who wants to spend an entire evening doing a deep dungeon, keeping in mind that two thirds of that time are just going to be trudging through the easy stuff up to the part where it gets challenging?"
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May 10, 2023 04:56
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at this point i'm only going to do Eureka Orthos if they make the all-classes-at-level-100 achievement another cool mount. like a super amaro or something.
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May 10, 2023 04:57
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Grayshift posted:Agreed that the deep dungeons are some of FF14's most disappointing content. Like... what if we took dungeons, replaced all the setpieces with randomly generated terrain, multiplied the trash fights by fifteen, added random bullshit trap nonsense, and you have a timer so go fast. Just terrible. Thinking about it, I feel like looking at it as 'trash fights' is probably an element, but I'm also not sure how you'd fix it. The regular mob fights are where most of the difficulty comes from in deep dungeons; outside of some in Eureka Orthos, the boss fights are almost a formality, the regular mobs are the things that'll really threaten your run. But how do you communicate and encourage that outlook, when the entire rest of the game reinforces the idea that the trash fights are... well, trash? How do you reward people for taking them seriously in this one part of the game? Especially since, thanks to PotD 51-60/HoH 21-30 farm runs, people also think deep dungeons are like that when they really aren't outside of those contexts. I feel like a strength of deep dungeons is that they actually are capable of making you have to think about and plan your approach to a pair of bees and a nearby gigantoad because they can absolutely gently caress you up, so I think part of the things you'd need to fix about deep dungeons is how to make people respect that when they're not used to having to.
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May 10, 2023 05:02
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Kerrzhe posted:at this point i'm only going to do Eureka Orthos if they make the all-classes-at-level-100 achievement another cool mount. like a super amaro or something. My suggestions (wishlist): Meteion giving you a piggyback ride Loporrit crowdsurf (with DJ) The Big Cheese but mount-sized. Loporrit tribe mount doesn't count, I want lasers Ladon Lord
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May 10, 2023 05:10
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Megacorgi
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May 10, 2023 05:13
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Yeah, trash in normal dungeons and 'trash' in deep dungeons aren't really comparable. A friend and I have been hitting deep dungeons pretty hard the past few months, and have been having a blast. We've duo'd both HoH and EO, and they're working on soloing the former right now. It's fun having to figure out how to deal with nasty room/mob/debuff combinations with limited resources and time. After a point in all deep dungeons, any telegraphed/named attack is a OHKO (and rather early in EO), so getting through a whole set when poo poo can go sideways at a moment's notice is pretty thrilling to us. It's amazing what crazy poo poo you can pull off with smart pomander use and quick thinking.
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May 10, 2023 05:15
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I miss two dungeons per patch
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May 10, 2023 06:10
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Oh that hurts my soul I've done at least 30-40 runs of that one SHB dungeon to get the wolf headpiece for my warrior and haven't seen it, so
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May 10, 2023 06:25
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At this point, just run it with Trusts while keeping each part of the set you get. The guaranteed piece for your Job at the end of the dungeon can't be a duplicate, so you'll get the piece you want fairly quickly through either luck or that drop.
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May 10, 2023 06:35
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Onean posted:At this point, just run it with Trusts while keeping each part of the set you get. The guaranteed piece for your Job at the end of the dungeon can't be a duplicate, so you'll get the piece you want fairly quickly through either luck or that drop. I wish I had known that, I woulda pulled the other pieces out of my glamour dresser. poo poo.
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May 10, 2023 06:36
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The pity drop only happens in leveling dungeons (ShB ex.: level 71, 73, 75, 77, 79) so if you're looking for drops from a level 80 dungeon like Grand Cosmos you remain at the mercy of the gods
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May 10, 2023 07:38
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Really? It's been a while since I've paid attention, but I could have sworn you got one from the rest of the dungeons too...
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May 10, 2023 08:32
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hexwren posted:i don't even mind the idea of doing special zones for relic progression, it's just when they're extremely elaborate systems that require special focus on top of requiring many players to engage with the content (which both eureka and bozja do) is when it becomes a huge bringdown you can get every stormblood relic appearance completely solo. the only step that requires other players is the physeos step or +2 elemental armor step, which doesn't have a different appearance from eureka weapons or +1 elemental armor. you can also get every shadowbringers relic appearance almost entirely solo. the only steps that requires other players is your first-time DRN completion, which can be done solo, but would require a hefty list of caveats, and a single CLL and Dalriada completion, which requires minimum two people. for stormblood relics, you can solo prep every NM in the game. some may take more time than others, and having a tank or maiming set of physeos and +2 elemental armor and 7 magia is extremely helpful. the hardest part of this will probably be solo-prepping PW in hydatos, because you can't buy the scales you need for the relic upgrades with zone currency in hydatos. for shadowbringers relics, there'll be a lot of suffering for the timeworn step in POTD, but since you can clear POTD solo, it counts. i wouldn't recommend any person get 255 timeworn artifacts via potd soloing, but the option does exist. Frida Call Me fucked around with this message at 12:30 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 09:40
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Firebert posted:Re: difficulty they should at the very least make tankbusters in EX require cooldowns, the one in the newest EX is pathetic and i don’t think could even kill a healer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLDf7V0yZdQ
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May 10, 2023 12:44
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Reminder that the island spreadsheet/optimizer folks have posted an alternative guide for those with rank 12 islands who want to bank some XP for the patch: https://old.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/13cllwm/island_sanctuary_workshop_explosion/?sort=new Basically, you'll be setting two weeks of workshop crafts in advance and don't touch the mammet until the patch drops to get both weeks worth of XP (plus some optimization for setting pasture and croplands back to manual and earn that XP on patch day, too). Kitfox88 posted:I miss two dungeons per patch  Onean posted:Really? It's been a while since I've paid attention, but I could have sworn you got one from the rest of the dungeons too... orcane fucked around with this message at 12:56 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 12:48
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orcane posted:Although I think they're expecting the patch a week earlier than most, so you might miss a few cowries if they do have to reset that guide in a week. Aren't they expecting it in 2 weeks, like everyone else?
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May 10, 2023 12:50
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hazardousmouse posted:Aren't they expecting it in 2 weeks, like everyone else? They’re expecting it on the 23rd, yeah.
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May 10, 2023 12:51
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Nvm, I misunderstood some of the comments made yesterday when the thread went up on Reddit.
orcane fucked around with this message at 12:54 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 12:52
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It's going to be a real effort to not touch that mammet for two weeks, it's such an ingrained part of the check in process. Wish they had furnishings already so I could put a traffic cone over it.
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May 10, 2023 13:32
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Hello! I tried FFXIV a year or two ago and bounced off because a bunch of friends were playing another game so I left to join them. However now said friends have stopped playing, so I'm picking FFXIV back up for another try. I've been a DPS player most of my gaming life but have recently taken a shine to tanking as I it seems like a fun new challenge vs. the Make Numbers Boom Bigger gameplay I've enjoyed for the past couple decades. A few questions about tanking jobs, if anyone would be so kind as to point me in a good direction for a first job: – What's the stress level of early tanking in this game, and how much knowledge of a dungeon is required for me to not make runs miserable for other players? Any good resources here? As a completely newb tank in this game would I be useful at all? – Are any tanking jobs worth avoiding? I'm not turned off by complexity and, in fact, would rather play a complicated class than a one button class, but I also don't want to pick a job that isn't much in demand or is just objectively weaker than other jobs (unless it's very fun to play). – How are tanks for solo-leveling? – Nice to haves: a job with high mobility (and perhaps with fun mobility abilities?), a job with some reasonable aoe
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May 10, 2023 14:20
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orcane posted:Reminder that the island spreadsheet/optimizer folks have posted an alternative guide for those with rank 12 islands who want to bank some XP for the patch: Neat. I hadn't considered the way the mammets bank island xp until you talk to them. I have no idea how they create estimates for what crafts to set up a week ahead of time though (even knowing it can't be 100% optimized without week-of info, there's still got to be some system they're gaming to keep the next season crafts from being complete shots in the dark?)
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May 10, 2023 14:24
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everything low level is basically tank and spank. dungeons are hallways so you can't get lost, and as long as you have your tank stance on you don't need to worry about threat/aggro. if you say you're new to the dungeon 99% of players won't mind if you're slow. just jump right in and tank that poo poo.
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May 10, 2023 14:25
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kedo posted:– What's the stress level of early tanking in this game, and how much knowledge of a dungeon is required for me to not make runs miserable for other players? Any good resources here? The good news is that none of your concerns are very relevant. Tanking is the easiest role in the game, with the only anxiety factor being essentially pure stage fright. You generally don't need to look up a dungeon at all to run it effectively, especially as tank. The most it would do for you is knowing what the optimal big pulls on trash are in a couple dungeons (but if you're new people generally won't care if you only pull one group at a time), and what the tankbusters and raidwides for each boss are named. FFXIV is extremely balanced for all jobs so you don't need to worry about avoiding any trap jobs, and they're all more-or-less equally mobile (though PLD is probably the least mobile because it's still quite a while before it gets its gap closer). FFXIV is structured in a way that makes running dungeons the best way to level, but you can easily get a dungeon party through the Duty Finder automatically without a premade party.
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May 10, 2023 14:26
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kedo posted:Hello! I tried FFXIV a year or two ago and bounced off because a bunch of friends were playing another game so I left to join them. However now said friends have stopped playing, so I'm picking FFXIV back up for another try. So dungeons in this game are extremely linear. Go forward, keep the boss facing away from the party, and congrats you can run any dungeon blind. All tanks are roughly equivalent in ability. All classes are fine for solo-leveling though that’s not really that important for MSQ progress because the MSQ spits enough exp at you that you can level two classes most of the time. The two tanks you can start with are Gladiator (becomes Paladin) which uses one-handed swords and shields and Marauder (becomes Warrior) which uses axes. Warrior is slightly easier because its damage mitigation is focused on self-heal, but they’re both valid beginner classes. The best classes for mobility are the physical DPS (and Summoner). The only physical DPS in ARR is Archer (becomes Bard). Summoner (starts as Arcanist) starts as sedentary as the other casters but becomes more and more mobile as you level.
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May 10, 2023 14:27
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All early pre-50 dungeons are very simple. Many of them will be two button affairs for the tank. The DPS might have 4. It curves smoothly from there. All tanks are viable. Dark Knight can feel a bit harder at times. Anyone can solo level, tanks are a nice balance of survivability without totally abandoning DPS. All tanks radiate AoE, Gunbreaker really radiates it though. They all get a nice charge but some much later than others. It's really easy to casually level and catch up alts from your first 50 on with queues so your tank choice isn't locked in. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 14:34 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 14:27
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Awesome, thanks for the answers all!
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May 10, 2023 14:33
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kedo posted:Hello! I tried FFXIV a year or two ago and bounced off because a bunch of friends were playing another game so I left to join them. However now said friends have stopped playing, so I'm picking FFXIV back up for another try. Tanking is the easiest role to play in practice, even at low level. Anxiety is mostly going to come from a combination of being the focus of attention and not realizing how easy the role actually is. Both can be overcome! Some knowledge of dungeons helps but it's never required for first time runs. If somebody gives you grief for biffing some mechanic you've never seen before, that's on them. It's super easy to just pick yourself up off the ground and try again. Every tank job has it's charms. At first the only two available to you will be Gladiator and Marauder. They later turn into Paladin and Warrior respectively. IMO gladiator at low level is about as boring as any class in this game gets, so maybe give marauder a shot first. If you prefer pushing as many buttons as possible, unbreaker is what you're looking for once you hit level 60. Paladins are the classic sword and board job with a direct self heal and a magic damage phase in the rotation at later levels. Warrior is about being very angry, hitting things with an axe, and laughing maniacally as you self heal faster than trash packs can hurt you. Dark Knights are are about converting blocked damage into death lasers and refusing to die. Also the job quests are really loving good. Gunbreakers make Explosions, which is rad as hell. They also have extra DPS buttons to push as they build meter. All tanks are completely viable for soloing, especially at mid to high level as they gain their sustain abilities. The main downside is low relative damage output, but defense and self healing usually more than make up for it. They've all got AoEs and a charge in (though some get the charge later than others).
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May 10, 2023 14:38
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Marauder/Warrior definitely sounds like my jam. I think I'll give that a shot first! So tanking is easy, that's good to know I suppose – if it's the easiest role to play, what's the hardest/most complex role? Am I going to be bored to tears tanking? For reference I enjoyed tanking in WoW classic because I it forced me to think about encounters and strategize a bit to keep aggro on big packs. Comparatively I find (early) tanking in WoW retail incredibly boring because I basically run around brainlessly picking up big groups of mobs and then I press two buttons and aoe spam threat.
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May 10, 2023 14:46
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In theory DPS is hardest to play *optimally*, as in getting the absolute most out of your contribution to damage. In practice most DPS players coast along because damage checks are extremely lenient outside of the highest end content. No grudge against people who like to take it easy, but I enjoy at least trying to be high end. Healer can be weird since how challenging it is depends a lot on how derpy the rest of the party is. When things are going well, XIV healers can contribute significantly to group DPS with their own damage abilities, though none have an especially exciting DPS rotation. If the other people are loving up a lot you end up having to divert brain cells and button presses to triage. There is basically no content where healers in this game are mechanically expected to pocket or spam heal; if that comes up it's either a brief and specific fight mechanic, or your party is Bad.
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May 10, 2023 14:55
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Tanking is make sure your stance is on when you enter the dungeon, then make mobs hate you. If you see a red circle on you, use a cool down. If you're pulling a lot of trash, use a cool down. You'll figure it out, it gives you lots of time. Healing is situational awareness. Know what your party is doing so you know to either ignore them or if you need to pay attention to their health or not. Your job is not to heal the party but to keep the party from dying. The only important hp is 1.  Dps is HIT BUTTON, GET BIG NUMBER. they all have their individual flavor. Try them all knowing that they suck 1-50 while they get their "kit". It can take some time to find a dps job that jives with how you play. Don't get discouraged and don't be afraid to say you're new in a dungeon/trial/whatever to get some friendly advice. Ffxiv players are chill as gently caress.
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May 10, 2023 15:04
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Also it's probably worth noting that trash packs are generally more dangerous than dungeon bosses, especially if you're pulling multiple packs. Be sure to rotate through your mitigation abilities when fighting a ton of trash because the incoming damage is significant. By comparison, most dungeon bosses only have one or two attacks that do even moderately threatening damage, and you can hold mitigation until you see them coming. Boss handling mostly comes down to planting them in a convenient place for DPS players to kill them, avoiding telegraphs, and occasionally wrangling add waves. They do get more interesting mechanically as the game progresses, but at worst you'll figure out what a dungeon boss is doing after getting smacked by a special ability once or twice.
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May 10, 2023 15:20
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kedo posted:
Required viewing for tanking: https://youtu.be/P8oVV_I-tIA (as is the rest of their videos).
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May 10, 2023 15:22
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kedo posted:Marauder/Warrior definitely sounds like my jam. I think I'll give that a shot first! Early tanking is a bit lackluster, because you won't have everything in your kit so you are basically just picking up a group and either hitting one AoE all the time (This upgrades to an AoE combo with some additional AoEs later) or doing a single-target combo. Your mitigation skills add some complexity based on how rough the mobs are and how good your healer is, and your experience will get more complex as you gain more levels, both in terms of buttons you get and mechanics you face. DPS is comparatively more complex, with various jobs having more or less complexity in the mix. Their complexity comes from combos and skills that might combo off others based on a percentage chance, plus most if not all have a damage buff where they want to be throwing out their best skills for a short time after buffing up. This is mostly only really important for high-end content, normal content is tuned such that you're okay if you can press another button a few seconds after you pressed one, doesn't even particularly matter if it's the "right" button.
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May 10, 2023 15:24
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Since you want to go for Warrior, I'd suggest watching Wesk Alber's 1-90 Skill Guide. And if you're interested, he also has them for Paladin, Dark Knight, and Gunbonker. Regardless of which you go with, you'll also want to watch his Tank Role Actions Guide.
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