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Tuna-Fish posted:Clearly it should be North (Atlantic, Baltic, Black Sea, Pacific) Treaty Organization. It's not like there's much going on in Southern Black Sea or Southern Pacific. There has been talks on if the Nordics should have their own defensive alliance but I think there is no reason for such anymore when Sweden joins NATO. If Sweden doesn't join in any near future thanks to Turkey and Hungary, that might be back on the planning board.
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May 10, 2023 20:45
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Der Kyhe posted:There has been talks on if the Nordics should have their own defensive alliance but I think there is no reason for such anymore when Sweden joins NATO. If Sweden doesn't join in any near future thanks to Turkey and Hungary, that might be back on the planning board. Such talk was always completely braindead. There is no world where Norway and Denmark give up the protection of NATO in exchange for being tied to Sweden and Finland.
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May 10, 2023 20:55
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Der Kyhe posted:There has been talks on if the Nordics should have their own defensive alliance but I think there is no reason for such anymore when Sweden joins NATO. If Sweden doesn't join in any near future thanks to Turkey and Hungary, that might be back on the planning board. Some sort of Northern European Alternative Treaty Organization?
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May 10, 2023 20:57
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Salty Licorice Appreciators Group
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May 10, 2023 20:59
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Well, the discussion was about sidebets in addition of being a member of NATO. Technically being a member of EU is already another defense pact that isn't NATO, but the EU security guarantees are untested and very vague, so they are borderline meaningless at the moment. And now that Finland is in NATO, and Sweden should be in the near future, the Nordic defense pact in addition of NATO is also pretty much meaningless. When Sweden is in, Russia cannot do a stunt where it triggers EU guarantees without triggering NATO Article 5, or force a situation where Sweden needs help to retake Baltic Sea islands from Russia without direct NATO involvement. Sweden has security guarantees at the moment to cover the "not yet member"-scenario, but it pretty much requires the US and UK to stay sane until the deal is done. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 21:05 on May 10, 2023 |
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May 10, 2023 21:03
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Tuna-Fish posted:Such talk was always completely braindead. There is no world where Norway and Denmark give up the protection of NATO in exchange for being tied to Sweden and Finland. Why doesn't this thinking go both ways? If Norway is tied to the US, they're a prime target for the Soviet Union (you did specify "always"). And Sweden had their own nuclear weapons program until the 1970's, so that was a question of how the Swedes would feel about threatening Moscow with a nuclear strike.
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May 10, 2023 21:03
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Small White Dragon posted:Is this for real? Who said that? MP of the current Hungarian nazi party (Mi hazánk / Our homeland) gave an interview to RT. So it's not the government who said it (they just think it I guess). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBUFCH4bMUI
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May 10, 2023 21:07
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Tuna-Fish posted:Clearly it should be North (Atlantic, Baltic, Black Sea, Pacific) Treaty Organization. It's not like there's much going on in Southern Black Sea or Southern Pacific. Turkey disapproves this! Anyway I don't think the alliance's name is that mysterious. It was formed between a bunch of North American and European nations, continents that have one ocean between them. It's not like Germany or Denmark have any Atlantic coastline either.
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May 10, 2023 21:09
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Nenonen posted:It's not like Germany or Denmark have any Atlantic coastline either. As a Dane I need to point out that in 1949 when Nato was founded we had huge and impressive amounts of Atlantic coastline. A whole lot more than most. But then some decades later Greenland wanted autonomy...
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May 10, 2023 22:24
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Sebastian Flyte posted:As a Dane I need to point out that in 1949 when Nato was founded we had huge and impressive amounts of Atlantic coastline. A whole lot more than most. But then some decades later Greenland wanted autonomy... bigly coasts, the coldest and most frozen
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May 10, 2023 22:57
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HonorableTB posted:bigly coasts, the coldest and most frozen The greenest from the standpoint of land.
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May 10, 2023 23:00
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The nordic defense pact talk always seemed like just empty mutual reassurances, but lately it does look like the nordic countries are aiming at tighter integration between their armed forces than even what NATO membership demands.Trump's attitude toward NATO probably isn't forgotten in Europe, and with the next presidential election drawing closer, having a backup plan with your closest neighboring members might not be a bad idea.
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May 10, 2023 23:10
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US DOD update, not much here. I cut out everything unrelated to Ukraine. Link with video: https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...press-briefing/ Link with USAI announcement: https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3388890/biden-administration-announces-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/ Reminder that USAI is a contract mechanism, not a drawdown from US stocks, so anything in a USAI tends to be months to a year+ down the road. Highlights: -USAI includes ammunition, training/maintenance support, air defense systems/munitions, equipment to help integrate Western and legacy Ukrainian air defenses, among other things -US Confirms that Ukraine used Patriot to shoot down a Kinzhal (NATO reporting name Killjoy) missile. These are missiles launched from modified MiG-31s, capable of hypersonic speeds. -US continues to train Ukrainian personnel in Germany, plans to do so as long as Ukraine has demand for it quote:BRIGADIER GENERAL PAT RYDER: Good afternoon, everybody. Just a few things here at the top, and then we'll get right to your questions.
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May 11, 2023 01:42
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Thanks very much for providing these mlmp.
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May 11, 2023 01:51
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Pope Hilarius II posted:I would like to propose the Global Defense Initiative EDF
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May 11, 2023 01:57
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Discendo Vox posted:Call it the Pacific Occidental Trans Atlantic Treaty Organization New thread title.
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May 11, 2023 03:53
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Slashrat posted:The nordic defense pact talk always seemed like just empty mutual reassurances, but lately it does look like the nordic countries are aiming at tighter integration between their armed forces than even what NATO membership demands.Trump's attitude toward NATO probably isn't forgotten in Europe, and with the next presidential election drawing closer, having a backup plan with your closest neighboring members might not be a bad idea. It just makes so much sense. Just look at the map of Norway and imagine that submarines or air interdiction are making the supply route to the north difficult. If you can use Swedish and Finnish territory too then it becomes trivial to go around that. All of the countries in the area have synergies like this and cooperation has existed before especially between Finland and Sweden, but it's more all encompassing now.
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May 11, 2023 04:00
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I came across a video today of a Russian (Wagner?) soldier using sign language to surrender to a Ukrainian drone. After some back and forth they drop a note to him with instructions on how to surrender. He makes his way through some trenches then makes a beeline across no man's land while his side takes potshots at him. Eventually he makes it over to the Ukrainian lines and tells the camera that a drone saved his life. I'm not going to link it for obvious reasons (I can't tell for certain but it looks like he climbs over some bodies, also we're supposed to avoid posting POW videos) but holy hell. The thing that really stuck out for me, though, was just how blasted the landscape in the video is. Just dirt, craters, and debris. It's one thing to hear "no man's land," it's another to see a scene that looks like something out of World War I. If I didn't know it was real I would have assumed they were filming an anachronistic follow up to All Quiet on the Western Front.
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May 11, 2023 04:44
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Yeah dude I have no idea if you can repost it but it was absolutely fascinating, drone controller trying to signal with shaking no, instruction drops, lots of attempted hand signals, he crawls through that blasted wasteland, definitely some bodies, his own side tries to shell him, the surrender is probably the only way he will have ever survived, it's a whole epic
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May 11, 2023 04:55
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Here you go https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/13dkeem/joint_effort_with_achilles_companycode_92_of_the/Fascintating how quickly new technology is adapted.
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May 11, 2023 05:36
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I have been seeing an increase in Russians surrendering/captured videos. While this is probably in part due to an increase in operations tempo, I am curious to whether Russians are seeing as many similiar videos of Ukrainians surrendering.
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May 11, 2023 07:05
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Dick Ripple posted:I am curious to whether Russians are seeing as many similiar videos of Ukrainians surrendering. With the difference in how POW's are treated I seriously doubt it. Also Ukraine actually seems to be actively trying to get Russian forces to surrender for what ever reasons. Can't imagine any Ukrainian forces surrendering unless there is no other option.
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May 11, 2023 08:55
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dr_rat posted:Also Ukraine actually seems to be actively trying to get Russian forces to surrender for what ever reasons. Soldiers that surrender are soldiers you don’t have to fight later. It’s the easiest and best way forward for everyone involved.
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May 11, 2023 09:08
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Icon Of Sin posted:Soldiers that surrender are soldiers you don’t have to fight later. It’s the easiest and best way forward for everyone involved. Russian POWs can also be exchanged for Ukrainian POWs.
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May 11, 2023 09:15
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Icon Of Sin posted:Soldiers that surrender are soldiers you don’t have to fight later. It’s the easiest and best way forward for everyone involved. Oh sorry, wrote that badly, meant that they were trying to persuade the Russian soldiers to surrender for what ever reason the Russian solider might want to for, not just the usual being surrounded and can't retreat type ones. The reportedly appalling treatment of the Russian troops by it's own army is probably helping a lot with that. Yeah the Ukrainian army would obviously want as many Russian soldiers to surrender as possible.
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May 11, 2023 09:19
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There's not going to be many that will actively try to surrender, I would guess. Most people just want to go back home and live free with their loved ones. Defecting to the enemy doesn't help with that, not to mention that it's dangerous. Desertion or self-made injury would be my first recourse. But then there are people who have nothing to lose even if they can't return home.
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May 11, 2023 09:28
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Rappaport posted:Why doesn't this thinking go both ways? If Norway is tied to the US, they're a prime target for the Soviet Union (you did specify "always"). And Sweden had their own nuclear weapons program until the 1970's, so that was a question of how the Swedes would feel about threatening Moscow with a nuclear strike. There were early attempts to work towards a Nordic defense union right after WW2, before Norway and Denmark went with NATO. Would have been an interesting change in Cold War politics, essentially a bigger version of Extremely Neutral (but really more western) Sweden. Probably with its own nukes (the Swedish program actually started as a joint Swedish-Norwegian one).
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May 11, 2023 09:30
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Nenonen posted:There's not going to be many that will actively try to surrender, I would guess. Most people just want to go back home and live free with their loved ones. Defecting to the enemy doesn't help with that, not to mention that it's dangerous. Desertion or self-made injury would be my first recourse. But then there are people who have nothing to lose even if they can't return home. This Gurdian article quotes the number as 6500 verified soldiers who have contacted the surrender hotline to surrender (Spokes person declined to say how many of these surrenders were "completed"). So that number doesn't include surrenders not through the hotline as well... so the actual number is, yeah who knows. They have seem to of officially swapped around 1500+ POW's with Russia, so that's the lowest possible number at least. But yeah, I assume most would prefer just to desert, or self injury, but I guess for some people near the front they might think that actually getting back to Russia would be to hard through that much Russian controlled Ukrainian territory. I assume they'd be lots of people on the look out for deserters, and who knows how badly you actually have to injury yourself, and if you have to injure yourself badly, well that can go very wrong pretty easily. Each options seems to have a pretty big risk attached.
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May 11, 2023 10:01
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I hope this is true and that other countries follow this example, giving Ukraine a longer range for attacks. https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1656585441343074305 https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/11/politics/uk-storm-shadow-cruise-missiles-ukraine
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May 11, 2023 10:53
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Possibly surrendering (depending on how you play it) wont get you punished/shot whereas desertion or retreating will? Seems complex to me and very situational.
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May 11, 2023 11:43
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EmployeeOfTheMonth posted:Possibly surrendering (depending on how you play it) wont get you punished/shot whereas desertion or retreating will? Seems complex to me and very situational. It's the difference between skipping school and staying home with a doctor's note.
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May 11, 2023 11:51
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Atreiden posted:I hope this is true and that other countries follow this example, giving Ukraine a longer range for attacks. Are they enough to take down the Kerch bridge?
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May 11, 2023 12:41
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Willo567 posted:Are they enough to take down the Kerch bridge? https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1656612051668664320/photo/1 Exact performance isn't ever going to be in the public domain, but there's a reasonable chance it has the accuracy and warhead to take out the required bridge supports. This is the most detailed overview of it I know. https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2022/11/storm-shadow/ I'm not sure it's ever been used against a foe to the level of Russia, so it'll be interesting to see how it does in a much more contested airspace. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen didn't/don't have the same level of air defences.
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May 11, 2023 12:57
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Are these air launched or do they have a surface to surface version?
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May 11, 2023 13:10
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My guess would be on Ukraine using them to target supply depots that have been outside their current range in anticipation for the upcoming offensive, to stretch Russian supply lines rather than targeting a bridge they probably can't consistently bomb.
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May 11, 2023 13:14
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ought ten posted:Are these air launched or do they have a surface to surface version?
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May 11, 2023 13:22
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mrfart posted:It's the difference between skipping school and staying home with a doctor's note. I recalled that some Ukrainian forces spokesperson mentioned that they were doing everything they can to make sure that Russia won't find out if some intentionally surrendered or if they were captured. So yeah this seems pretty accurate.
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May 11, 2023 13:22
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It depends how many missiles Ukraine is given. The Kerch Bridge is very likely heavily defended by Russian surface to air missiles, due to its obvious logistical and strategic importance, as well as its symbolic propaganda value. Being at the edge of strike range, the Russians should have a decent chance of detecting any incoming missiles and firing at them. Storm Shadow also isn't a wonder weapon - it seems to be about as vulnerable to SAMs as any other cruise missile. Not saying its impossible, but they would presumably need a good number of missiles to overwhelm the bridge's defenses and have a good chance of taking it out. Ukraine may not have enough of them to spare - and may have more immediate tactical targets, like supply and ammo depots, HQs, etc.
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May 11, 2023 13:25
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The fun times is that just by HAVING those missiles, without ever firing one, they can affect the battlefield because the Russian army will have to start spreading its defenses further, move its goods further away from the front, etc, which mean that even the shorter range missiles gain effectiveness.
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May 11, 2023 15:09
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So is Ukraine going to jury rig those storm shadow missiles to their Migs and Sukhois like they did with the HARM missiles?
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May 11, 2023 16:14
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