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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:What the actual gently caress are you talking about. I think it's going back to my initial point that there's only maybe five or six good western mecha cartoons and I mentioned that Genlock is not one of them? I think? Other than that I'm not sure what the link is between Eva, They Live and Genlock. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 11, 2023 |
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May 11, 2023 15:33
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The fight scene you're saying sucks was way after all of that though
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May 11, 2023 15:33
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Arc Hammer posted:I think it's going back to my initial point that there's only maybe five or six good western mecha cartoons and I mentioned that Genlock is not one of them? I think is the draw? And the fact that Evangelion got a lot of people go, and keep going "no the mecha are an active detriment in these shows, Evangelion is good because it focuses on the characters" and the sorts of bad writing you get when you work with that as your starting point.
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May 11, 2023 15:34
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Fivemarks posted:Evangelion and its consequences have been a disaster for western mecha. Its a disaster that's being fixed now, but the late 90's, 2000's, and 2010s were pretty loving dire with people treating Evangelion as if its some kind of holy grail of mecha anime and the best thing ever and SO DEEP. The fight scene we are all talking about was in a movie from 2021, you phenomenal dipshit.
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May 11, 2023 15:35
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:The fight scene we are all talking about was in a movie from 2021, you phenomenal dipshit. Its still emblematic of the idea of "no, no, the giant robots aren't important, the DEEP THEMES are." Like I don't even hate the fight that much, I just think its kind of a giant wet fart that feels a bit perfunctory.
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May 11, 2023 15:36
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So your entire argument is childish grievance over shows trying to be more than bang zoom popcorn for children, cool. Good talk, good talk
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May 11, 2023 15:46
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:So your entire argument is childish grievance over shows trying to be more than bang zoom popcorn for children, cool. Good talk, good talk If you try to have DEEP THEMES and give me dogshit but go "no it's good because its Deep", I'm going to call it dogshit. I don't know what to tell you other than that.
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May 11, 2023 15:52
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well, you'd know about dogshit takes so i guess i'll take your word for it.
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May 11, 2023 15:56
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Fivemarks posted:And the fact that Evangelion got a lot of people go, and keep going "no the mecha are an active detriment in these shows, Evangelion is good because it focuses on the characters" and the sorts of bad writing you get when you work with that as your starting point. Does that apply to anything other than, apparently, Gen Lock season 2? I watched some number of the seasons of the new Voltron, and while the mecha combat certainly wasn't very good, it was there.
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May 11, 2023 15:59
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Gripweed posted:Does that apply to anything other than, apparently, Gen Lock season 2? I watched some number of the seasons of the new Voltron, and while the mecha combat certainly wasn't very good, it was there. This is the first thing I've heard about new Voltron that wasn't "the boys are cute" or "I'm really angry that other people think the boys are cute."
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May 11, 2023 16:07
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Schwarzwald posted:This is the first thing I've heard about new Voltron that wasn't "the boys are cute" or "I'm really angry that other people think the boys are cute." It wasn't very good.
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May 11, 2023 16:17
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They Live owns
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May 11, 2023 16:18
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People complained that early VLD didn't have enough Voltron but I thought it was cool that the big guy was a big gun reserved for the most dramatic moments of the season. It's not like it was all empty buildup - not being About The Robot let the characters have their own adventures because the individual lions were good for anything and allowed to be cool in their own rights. The gattai-creep coincided directly with the writers fighting over which hot boy got to be the main character while the designated comic relief devolved into shtick.
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May 11, 2023 16:19
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I would like it if there were more good mecha shows and comics from outside Japan. There's plenty of good mechs but they're never really the focus outside of series I've already mentioned. Maybe I should just make my own.
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May 11, 2023 17:08
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I maintain that Voltron legendary defender was decent for the first season.
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May 11, 2023 17:43
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I think the problem with VLD was that it very blatantly wanted to be Avatar in space, but it didn't draw on real world cultures like Avatar did. That was one of Avatar's big strengths, they gave each nation unique fashion and architecture and ways of moving, which made the world feel really fleshed out and genuine. Take that away and you have something very generic. You have VLD.
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May 11, 2023 17:49
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It was an ok kids show for like 3 seasons, but it was pretty clear after a while that they'd rather be anything other than a robot show with how stingy they were showing Voltron doing anything cool.Caphi posted:People complained that early VLD didn't have enough Voltron but I thought it was cool that the big guy was a big gun reserved for the most dramatic moments of the season. It's not like it was all empty buildup - not being About The Robot let the characters have their own adventures because the individual lions were good for anything and allowed to be cool in their own rights. The gattai-creep coincided directly with the writers fighting over which hot boy got to be the main character while the designated comic relief devolved into shtick. One of those "dramatic moments" was the climax of a season where Voltron got a pair of big boosters to fly really fast and...that was it. And the boosters were never used again. Neo_Crimson fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 11, 2023 |
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May 11, 2023 17:55
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I thought VLD was consistently fine. The Earth ship that transformed into a gimongous robot and tossed around everyone on the bridge whenever it moved too fast was cool.
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May 11, 2023 18:25
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I'd argue that VLD was mostly good with some quibbles that chalk up to taste, up until the point of the show stopped being about the plot or character development, and instead became about shipping. And also the time shippers tried to blackmail the showrunners. Basically shippers ruin everything when they take it too seriously or when the shipping becomes everything. Edit: Okay Fair, everything isn't RWBY where they wrote two characters together because the fans thought they'd be hot together, but I do think you can chalk up some of the bad stuff with shows like Thundercats, Voltron, Korra, and She-Ra to attempts to catch Avatar's, let's call it "Shipping/Romance Lightning" in a bottle again. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 11, 2023 |
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May 11, 2023 18:39
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i can't imagine that [popular show] got fans outside of its genre to think it is somehow an exception in said genre this is truly a phenomena unique to evangelion
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May 11, 2023 19:30
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you know all those people who say anime is for pedos except ghibli is cool? that's right. studio ghibli ruined anime.
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May 11, 2023 19:31
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ninjewtsu posted:you know all those people who say anime is for pedos except ghibli is cool? that's right. studio ghibli ruined anime. This, but unironically.
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May 11, 2023 19:38
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please tell me about the negative influences studio ghibli has had on the broader anime industry
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May 11, 2023 19:40
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It was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.
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May 11, 2023 19:40
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There's probably ACTUALLY a discussion to be had about how Ghibli's films and their critical acclaim in the west contributed to an idea that "If it wasn't Ghibli or like Ghibli, its a dumb kids show or mindless ultraviolence" that kinda tarred a lot of anime in the west in the 1980's and 1990's and on into the 2000's. But I don't have to deal with people going "Princess Mononoke is the best thing every, you're stupid for liking Slayers because unlike Slayers, Princess Mononoke focuses on the characters," so that isn't a discssion I want to have, particularly.
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May 11, 2023 19:46
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Ghibli is bad because it led to Miyazaki saying something that people twisted into 'anime is a mistake' and I dislike that reaction image.
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May 11, 2023 19:48
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Have younconsidered that Princess Mononoke could still be one of the best films ever made even if it didn't have the Ghibli label attached to it? International perception of anime and manga wouldn't fundamentally change if it was one studio or another releasing a landmark title. The results would be broadly similar.
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May 11, 2023 19:51
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Fivemarks posted:There's probably ACTUALLY a discussion to be had about how Ghibli's films and their critical acclaim in the west contributed to an idea that "If it wasn't Ghibli or like Ghibli, its a dumb kids show or mindless ultraviolence" that kinda tarred a lot of anime in the west in the 1980's and 1990's and on into the 2000's. there's probably actually a discussion to be had about how this is the natural mass response to any breakout work in an otherwise disliked or unknown market and it has nothing to do with ghibli, evangelion, or madoka other than "they happened to be high quality enough to have a chance at rolling the winning dice, and they did"
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May 11, 2023 19:51
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Princess Monoke is absolutely amazing. I've got no complaints about Ghibli or Miyazki as a director and artist. Miyazaki as a father or as a mentor to others in the industry, though?
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May 11, 2023 19:51
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Mentor/Father would be better off being attributed to Go Nagai than anyone else, IMO. But Go Nagai is more like the crazy uncle who rolls up to the family reunion and shows all his nieces and nephews the cool poo poo and movies their parents say they're too young for.
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May 11, 2023 19:54
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ninjewtsu posted:please tell me about the negative influences studio ghibli has had on the broader anime industry Miyazaki himself is one of the biggest boosters of the whole “work until you die, possibly of overwork” ethos behind maybe the big man Tezuka himself, to the point that it’s basically accepted by most people knowledgeable about it that Yoshifumi Kondo died as a direct result of Miyazaki pushing him. More anecdotally there’s apparently a common saying in japanese animation colleges that “miyazaki will find the best talents of every generation and hire them just to waste their best years making the most boring work in their portfolio.”
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May 11, 2023 20:32
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ninjewtsu posted:please tell me about the negative influences studio ghibli has had on the broader anime industry Really I just take offense to Miyazaki, the Elder. One, I feel his works are generally just not very interesting. Nausicaa and Mononoke are ok, but hardly anything particularly interesting and the rest of his filmography is tedious. Made in USA and Ponyo are the only two movies I've ever fallen asleep during. Two, he's got the Eminem problem. He's so popular that he's become more associated with the aspect of being popular than he is with actually putting out quality work. Three, and associated with Two. Because of his own personal brand of popularity, and the conflation of Miyzaki with Ghibli, cat in the CineD genchat recently mistook Graveyard of the Fireflies for a Miyazaki joint, and the broader Japanese Animation Film industry, you end up seeing people making apple/orange comparisons that serve neither individual particularly well. You may think that the average film goer can distinguish between Miyazaki and Other's in the industry, but that is because you are more ensconced in the industries aura. When Suzume came out I saw quite a few people talking bout it in only in how "Ghibli" it was, by this they meant Miyazakicore. Shinkai himself has got quite the record under his belt, but for the semi mainstream US he's still living in the shadow of Miyazaki despite his works not really having much in common with him. Should we be so ignorant? Should we compare every Japanese Film to Kurosawa or Ozu, every French Film to Godard, every British film to Powell and Pressburger? We even see this kind of thing happening with Indian films currently, I ain't an expert in Indian Cinema, but I've seen a few and a lot of the things RRR got singled out for existed just as much in Pathaan, Ek Tha Tiger, PS-2, and even bad Indian films I watched like Amigos. I forward the notion that Miyazaki has consciously attempted to create a cult of personality around his work, and his continuing re grabbing of the reins of Ghibli, his denigration of others work his own son included, and his general tendency for megalomania has allowed him to grab the composite crown of Japanese Animation, a crown that could easily be broken and used to ennoble dozens of creatives in the industry waiting for their big break, especially now when International sales are so much more important to the industry. I personally would love to be able to check out five or six decent Anime flicks each year, films judged on their own merit rather than a phantom comparison to the antiquarian parasite. Four, just loving retire and mean it.
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May 12, 2023 02:05
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Fivemarks posted:Evangelion and its consequences have been a disaster for western mecha. Its a disaster that's being fixed now, but the late 90's, 2000's, and 2010s were pretty loving dire with people treating Evangelion as if its some kind of holy grail of mecha anime and the best thing ever and SO DEEP. the disaster for western mecha is that in general it's just never been good and that predates eva by a long rear end time
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May 12, 2023 03:19
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new voltrons biggest issue was that it was 8 seasons and also all the characters were as interesting as a puddle
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May 12, 2023 03:26
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8 Seasons?! what in the gently caress
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May 12, 2023 03:28
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Gaius Marius posted:8 Seasons?! what in the gently caress You need an entire season for Gaybaiting.
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May 12, 2023 03:30
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https://twitter.com/unplaceableface/status/1656745683590979584
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May 12, 2023 03:34
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Booky posted:new voltrons biggest issue was that it was 8 seasons and also all the characters were as interesting as a puddle how the gently caress was the show 78 episodes long what even happens during it Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 03:56 on May 12, 2023 |
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May 12, 2023 03:37
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8 seasons in 2 years, baby!!!!!
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May 12, 2023 03:38
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Schwarzwald posted:how the gently caress was the show 78 what even happens during it they swap lions around, kill the main bad guy in s3, uhhhh then the prince dudes there and hes cool except when they reveal he was conveniently evil off screen for like 3 seasons (i watched 6 seasons of the show and then stopped since s7 wasn't out yet and then it dropped and people got mad at the gay ex bf guy that got hyped up at a con dying, and then i was like that sounds bad and then apparently s8 ends with killing off a major character like 5 mins before the end of the show)
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May 12, 2023 03:44
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