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Next time try not only pinging kp but also telling the com that even though you may not have 250, you are a good player, know the encounter and what to do and will not feed. You might be surprised at the results. (Well, maybe not on NA. but it worked for me on EU back when I started)
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May 12, 2023 12:07
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but most of that is a lie! im not a good player. Im probably pretty average
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May 12, 2023 12:09
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Meskhenet posted:but most of that is a lie! You're overestimating the average player. Doing even a little learning about the game outside of the game puts you ahead of the curve.
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May 12, 2023 12:32
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The longer this conversation goes the more I'm thinking I should just play on EU instead.
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May 12, 2023 12:51
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what worked for me on EU was I joined one of the large guilds that constantly run metas while spamming recruitment ads, randomly join a learning group they spam in guild/discord, oops cleared all the strikes and 3 raids lol
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May 12, 2023 13:11
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where the red fern gropes posted:it is a real thing. dev responses: Thank you, this is disappointing but reassuring that it isn't a problem with my PC
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May 12, 2023 13:22
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I actually kinda enjoy 0kp pugs on EU, you never know whether you're going to do all CMs without any trouble at all, or struggle to kill Xera because half the group can't glide, can't dps and doesn't know what to do with the special action key (which happened last night  )In a certain sense the game comes alive when people screw up and you have to adapt. It can be quite boring when everyone does their job properly and the bosses just fall over. Sometimes you just want to get your weekly clear though. I've actually ended up in a few ~50kp groups where I didn't have the kp since I joined before they added the requirement. Skill level was about the same as 0kp groups, but half the group immediately leaves if you wipe. I've never joined a high kp requirement group though. I wonder how they are.
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May 12, 2023 13:48
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What does "kp" mean?
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May 12, 2023 18:10
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"Killproof", each raid encounter drops some number of tokens unique to that fight. Ostensibly they're for buying guild decorations but since you can't trade them people use them as proof you've been through the fight some number of times. The cool thing is the number of tokens dropped is random-- you might kill Dhuum five times and only have five tokens, while someone else has killed him once and gotten five tokens out of it.
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May 12, 2023 18:23
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Fractal CM groups will use 'UFE' for Unstable Fractal Essence, which drops from said challenge mode fractals. The problem is it's a wallet currency rather than a linkable item, so people have to give an API key to https://killproof.me if they want to get in to parties checking those.
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May 12, 2023 18:38
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Adhesive Gamin posted:Fractal CM groups will use 'UFE' for Unstable Fractal Essence, which drops from said challenge mode fractals. The problem is it's a wallet currency rather than a linkable item, so people have to give an API key to https://killproof.me if they want to get in to parties checking those. anyone who wants anything more than dwd or a pinkie swear to try their best is a nerd tbh
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May 12, 2023 18:39
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Saraiguma posted:anyone who wants anything more than dwd or a pinkie swear to try their best is a nerd tbh A bunch of MMO players are nerds??! 
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May 12, 2023 19:34
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Hello Sailor posted:What does "kp" mean? And as said in the post below its completely random how many you get, and you only get it once a week. So you might have done back to back Dhuum training raids in a week or two, where you can fill EVERY position as good as the raid trainer, and still be sitting on 2KP. Its pretty lol
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May 12, 2023 22:33
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Mr. Neutron posted:Next time try not only pinging kp but also telling the com that even though you may not have 250, you are a good player, know the encounter and what to do and will not feed. As mentioned the idea that you have the kp, but not enough kps to join a random pubbie group, kind of tells you that additional effort to desperately join that group is better spent elsewhere. Deformed Church posted:The longer this conversation goes the more I'm thinking I should just play on EU instead. It certainly sounds like they have fewer Special Ops Tactical Commander (Xbox Division) players, but on the other hand I'd murder someone for lower latency a lot of the time. There's at least one adventure I flat out cannot do. I've never actually killed Xera because both the kills I've been in on ley line gliding failed to activate. I've got enough Vale Guardian tokens to mark me as a professional (apparently) on that fight but I die hard to teleports every time. In the thick of open world metas some of my abilities just don't work. All template dodges where you can't dodge outside the template are complete guesswork. On the positive side, if you're in NA and play on NA there are literally infinite discords and infinite raids so all these conversations are irrelevant.
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May 13, 2023 16:43
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Mailer posted:As mentioned the idea that you have the kp, but not enough kps to join a random pubbie group, kind of tells you that additional effort to desperately join that group is better spent elsewhere. ley line gliding is the Xera killer! but as a commander pointed out. Hold space. you will automatically glide just hold space when you jump into the ley line
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May 14, 2023 00:26
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Mailer posted:As mentioned the idea that you have the kp, but not enough kps to join a random pubbie group, kind of tells you that additional effort to desperately join that group is better spent elsewhere. While I prefer chill, no requirement groups, kp gives some (rather crappy) indication of experience, which is undeniably better than none at all. Someone with 250kp for a boss has killed that boss at least 50 times, and will probably know the nuances of the fight. Being registered on killproof.me also shows that player is prepared to do a bit of preparation, which is a useful filter for random LFG players. There's even a plugin for arcdps to show relevant values for group members in-game, so it doesn't exactly take much effort to manage as a group leader. Bear in mind EU uses kp widely, and the raid LFG is active; NA does not, and the raid LFG is not active. Obviously this isn't the only factor, but it's certainly a contributor. Most people making groups with kp requirements would probably not be making public groups at all without it.
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May 14, 2023 08:36
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Golly I'm glad I play this game exclusively as a single player title
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May 14, 2023 08:55
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The insufferable tryharding with stuff like "killproof" actually makes me glad I'm on Maguuma, and beyond thatMeowywitch posted:Golly I'm glad I play this game exclusively as a single player title
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May 14, 2023 10:52
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lmao, if putting your api key into a website once is too much effort for your random NA player, it's no wonder pugging is such a shitshow there
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May 14, 2023 12:07
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Meskhenet posted:Hold space. you will automatically glide That was a game-changer when she told me when I was failing... a lot... at getting one of the chests in W2, but in this case it's something different. I've only ever had it going to the center platform post-mechanic. You jump, glider comes out, and where the ley line should sort of pop you in the air it just doesn't pop and you glide normally down through the ley line. It's really frustrating because literally everyone tells you how to glide and no amount of explanation can rid you of the "doesn't know how to hit spacebar" tag. ..btt posted:Bear in mind EU uses kp widely, and the raid LFG is active; NA does not, and the raid LFG is not active. Obviously this isn't the only factor, but it's certainly a contributor. Most people making groups with kp requirements would probably not be making public groups at all without it. The whole LFG process doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm coming from a very guild-centric WoW raiding mindspace (of over a decade ago) so there's that. You were expected to have knowledge of encounters, read up ahead of time, etc. So when I hear "pubbie LFG raid" I don't think of a bunch of people with years of experience in statics (generating tons of tokens) who for some reason left their accomplished raids and have now gathered at random to make a temporary short raid happen. It sounds way more like people trying to aim for ringers and tossing back people on their level.
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May 14, 2023 13:17
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Yeah. The game was never really designed to have hard content to begin with, and they leapt from 0 to 100 with raids, without learning systems, or even a not lovely group finder. Everything kind of snowballed from there. Maybe if we'd started with strikes and they'd fixed the group finder we'd be in a healthier spot with that sort of content but shrug.
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May 14, 2023 13:52
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Meowywitch posted:Golly I'm glad I play this game exclusively as a single player title i get enough performance anxiety in job interviews why would i want to replicate that experience in my online games for the sake of earning like 5 gold or whatever
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May 14, 2023 13:52
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the trick to clearing raids in public groups is really simple: just be able to clear solo, then any extra players are just bonus dps that makes it go faster e: realtalk since you have the sthola av, ff14 makes you do content that's about as hard as the harder strikes/easier raids and people queue for roulettes constantly anyway. sometimes you wipe 5 times or whatever but mostly it's smooth Truga fucked around with this message at 14:16 on May 14, 2023 |
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May 14, 2023 14:12
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i touched party finder like 3 times and with roulettes i didn't have to submit my resume and prove in the interview I have 5-10 years of experience killing Norm of the North
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May 14, 2023 14:26
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..btt posted:lmao, if putting your api key into a website once is too much effort for your random NA player, it's no wonder pugging is such a shitshow there 
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May 14, 2023 14:47
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Meeko posted:Maybe if we'd started with strikes and they'd fixed the group finder we'd be in a healthier spot with that sort of content but shrug. GW2 somehow went backwards from the norm at the time and now they too have Truga posted:the trick to clearing raids in public groups is really simple: just be able to clear solo, then any extra players are just bonus dps that makes it go faster I too support The Warframe Method.
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May 14, 2023 14:50
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Brb, learning to solo Dhuum so I can pug raids.
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May 14, 2023 15:56
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Communities like Raid Academy and Mistlocked are really helpful for finding groups but yeah unless you play in prime time NA that doesn't help much.
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May 14, 2023 16:03
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Mailer posted:That was a game-changer when she told me when I was failing... a lot... at getting one of the chests in W2, but in this case it's something different. I've only ever had it going to the center platform post-mechanic. You jump, glider comes out, and where the ley line should sort of pop you in the air it just doesn't pop and you glide normally down through the ley line. It's really frustrating because literally everyone tells you how to glide and no amount of explanation can rid you of the "doesn't know how to hit spacebar" tag. for that part of xera you can actually cheat by gliding a little early, if you're inside the middle platform when it materializes you'll end up on top
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May 14, 2023 17:07
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Harrow posted:Communities like Raid Academy and Mistlocked are really helpful for finding groups but yeah unless you play in prime time NA that doesn't help much. I am about to have leggy everything entirely off the back of goon raids and raid academy, and I'm an EU based person on the NA servers
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May 14, 2023 21:31
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tarbrush posted:I am about to have leggy everything entirely off the back of goon raids and raid academy, and I'm an EU based person on the NA servers Thats the thing: NA has privatized LFG. If you want to reliably find raid groups full of like-minded individuals, which have a decent chance of succeeding, you need to use discord from one of a handful of groups that organize raiding. I managed to finish my legendary heavy more or less the same as you. I could reliably find multiple raid groups nightly that needed fills. And Goons were always there on the weekends for successful runs to complete my week. I honestly didn't even mind running some of the wings twice in a week. But NA LFG? in the evening you need to keep the window open and just hope something gets posted that you can join, or you need to join some 3/10 group and hope another 6 people see it and then there's a decent chance they'll fall apart on slothasar.
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May 15, 2023 18:14
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Mailer posted:GW2 somehow went backwards from the norm at the time and now they too have it's such a weird mix of anet upper management listening to hardcore raiders and resulting in us having hardcore content, but not caring to establish the infastructure needed for the scene to thrive or intorducing difficulty in a organic way. anet's management remains baffling.
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May 16, 2023 06:54
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Mailer posted:GW2 somehow went backwards from the norm at the time and now they too have Pretty hot take here dude, Teapot and Sneb consistently say that if you're big into challenging group content, GW2 is not the game for you, and at discuss at length the social and systemic problems with raiding in the game. I mean, both of them invested huge amounts of effort and time into establishing large organisations in-game to help new people get into raiding. The only thing killproof is gatekeeping is newbies joining groups of veterans who want a clean clear. Plenty of them do training runs - that's how I got into raiding in the first place. Also anyone can make a group with whatever requirements they want. No gate is being kept, and you can opt out of the issue completely by finding a static. Killproof is there as a best-of-the-worst system to help people find groups of similar experience levels and set expectations. On EU the LFG pug scene is fairly active, though obviously a shadow of what it was when the raids were new. The vast majority of active raiders are veterans though. If you want to join a raid with people of similar experience level, it's the only mechanism available. I don't think anyone thinks it's a good system, hence why you see insane requirements on some groups. But there is nothing in-game to support people finding others of similar experience. Most kp groups I see are pretty reasonable though, asking for 1-50 kp, e.g. 1-10 kills minimum. Honestly calling it gatekeeping comes across like "people who currently make groups with kp should carry me even though I don't meet their requirements and am not prepared to put any effort in myself" (though I appreciate your frustration comes primarily from playing on NA off-peak). The reality is that these people would simply not pug raid at all if they didn't have a system to estimate the experience of unknown players, and you'd end up with the NA LFG. Because they don't want to have to train newbies every single raid. Even ignoring that, you wouldn't want to be in a group with people who make kp requirements if you don't have it. You'll not know the common pug strats, they'll get annoyed, and no-one will have a good time. Calling it tryharding is self-reporting that you don't have a clue how it works. Or how making a pug works.
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May 16, 2023 09:36
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..btt posted:I mean, both of them invested huge amounts of effort and time into establishing large organisations in-game to help new people get into raiding. Like every time I have been (and will be) told "duh just join a discord" I keep in mind where peoples' views are coming from. It's a little bit difficult when someone with a stream army instantly filling anything he wants to do at any random moment tells me how easy it is to get a group for all content, but I'm not going to roast the guy for doing his job. ..btt posted:Calling it tryharding is self-reporting that you don't have a clue how it works. Or how making a pug works. In the context of GW2 raids, I don't! They also essentially don't exist where I play. I did a training run that showed up once, killed VG, then somehow failed at running to the walls and beating them up (though I made it) and the whole thing disbanded. It worked exactly like I'd expect a group in the pubstove to work - zero commitments, half looking for a free ride who instantly bailed, etc. Grabbing from the random pool of public players sets the bar as low as it can go. Strikes, fractals, metas, other games... all consistent. When you get to the hard stuff that might demand a few deaths you form a guild run. I can see it was definitely out of line and my bad to say they were being dicks when the established system is that you go off, join a static, raid for years until you know all the content by heart and can prove it via tokens, then you can join the real players in a random informal pug raid. That statement is just really loving weird and nothing else works like that.
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May 16, 2023 16:49
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Mailer posted:Like every time I have been (and will be) told "duh just join a discord" I keep in mind where peoples' views are coming from. It's a little bit difficult when someone with a stream army instantly filling anything he wants to do at any random moment tells me how easy it is to get a group for all content, but I'm not going to roast the guy for doing his job. I actually agree that teapot massively underestimates the effect of being a streamer on being able to form groups for weird content at weird hours. He's currently recording a series of pugs on a secret account that he isn't streaming - will be interesting to watch. I have no doubt he'll still find groups and hit his goals, because he's a bullish guy with a deep understanding of the game, but I suspect it will be a bit harder than he thinks. Mailer posted:In the context of GW2 raids, I don't! They also essentially don't exist where I play. This comment wasn't aimed at you, I don't think you'd called it tryharding! Mailer posted:the established system is that you go off, join a static, raid for years until you know all the content by heart and can prove it via tokens, then you can join the real players in a random informal pug raid. That statement is just really loving weird and nothing else works like that. Kp isn't really a thing on NA, so it doesn't apply there. On EU, there are a range of groups from training, though semi-training to experienced groups of various levels. You're not expected to join a static to get kp, you're expected to join training (where you might have mechanics explained), then semi-training (where you have a clear or two but don't fully understand the mechanics), then low kp, where you probably have a good handle on the fights, but still not a great deal of experience. There's progression further too though - people asking for high kp, like 250+ are not just looking for a run where people don't gently caress up, they're looking for a fast, smooth run where everybody can fulfil basically any role. The people these groups are aimed at have probably been consistently raiding for years. They don't want people who don't understand niche strategies to join, and you should not want to join them. Kp is used in EU to set expectations, basically. If you've listened to Sneb talk about his NA pugging, you'll know why this is important, both in reducing conflict and ensuring the group doesn't collapse if something goes wrong. There is still a lot of friction here amongst new players because there are vastly more high kp groups than training groups - most of the raiding playerbase are veterans who have been at it for years, and few of them have much interest in training newbies. Some people think the veterans are obliged to teach them, which is of course ridiculous. Most people think the only way to learn raids is have someone tell you exactly what to do, which is a shame, because obviously everyone had to learn blind in the first place. Statics and discords allow you to bypass the proof of experience thing in some ways, but they do not allow you to ignore player expectations. If your static is very tryhard and you are not, it's probably not going to work out. If you are very tryhard and your static is not, you're going to get very frustrated.
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May 17, 2023 09:48
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Quasi-related, how annoying is it to get groups for fractal CMs for Ad Infinitum? I assume there's less need to get alac/quickness/heals and poo poo? I'll probably need to make my own parties and I have no experience doing the CMs.
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May 17, 2023 12:07
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Humerus posted:Quasi-related, how annoying is it to get groups for fractal CMs for Ad Infinitum? I assume there's less need to get alac/quickness/heals and poo poo? I'll probably need to make my own parties and I have no experience doing the CMs. The Ad Inf CMs are all easy, just the regular fractal with some additional requirements, eg, finish in X time. A lot of them (All of them? Probably not Mai Trin) can be completed with only 2 or 3 people. I've seen some pugs fill up almost instantly and others sit in LFG for a while. Ping guild chat and there will usually be at least one person who can jump in to help. MajorBonnet fucked around with this message at 14:18 on May 17, 2023 |
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May 17, 2023 12:26
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..btt posted:Statics and discords allow you to bypass the proof of experience thing in some ways, but they do not allow you to ignore player expectations. If your static is very tryhard and you are not, it's probably not going to work out. If you are very tryhard and your static is not, you're going to get very frustrated. Yeah statics (this is still such a weird term for what any other game calls "a normal raid") that are extremely experienced is not where I'd aim to go. I'd aim for a training raid or something just above a training raid if I had the option. It's already kind of frustrating to raid with waaaaay better people but at least they know I suck and expect it. I can see it from the perspective of those people and I can definitely see it from the perspective of people who's only known exposure to raids is being told they must be at least this tall to ride. It still sounds really weird that you'd run LFG for a super-experienced pro run instead of your usual static raid full of the people you want to raid with... but I suspect the raiding population just isn't there. That makes it even weirder that people would be against dragging along a new person or two to train them up because eventually there's only going to be nine of you and welp. Like everything else in the game to deal with groups I just blame it on anet's straight-outta-2008 interface for finding other players.
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May 17, 2023 13:21
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Mailer posted:Yeah statics (this is still such a weird term for what any other game calls "a normal raid") that are extremely experienced is not where I'd aim to go. I'd aim for a training raid or something just above a training raid if I had the option. It's already kind of frustrating to raid with waaaaay better people but at least they know I suck and expect it. I think the term "static" for a regular raid group with a fixed roster comes from FFXI, where people would have "static parties" who they'd always group up with to level. It got carried over into FFXIV's 8-player raids, and from there seems to have been imported into GW2.
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May 17, 2023 13:50
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As enjoyable as this game can be, some of the multiplayer/fractal/group content is just unnecessarily confusing. There are fractals I’ve run where someone, typically a very patient comm/leader, is explaining the mechanics, marking things, calling targets, etc. I appreciate their efforts a lot, but it shouldn’t be this complicated. You’re given vague in-game instructions by the instance, and just expected to just work things out somehow. There are fractals I’ve cleared where I walk away going “I have no idea what the hell just happened, but I guess we won” and that is (in my opinion) not good game design or a rewarding feeling. It feels like a chore so I can earn daily rewards, and Dungeons are also super guilty of this. I get that everyone says “lol just read the wiki” and I do, but it’s obnoxious to have to study a lengthy article in-depth just to be able to survive what boils down to about 10-15 minutes of content. If this game has a major blind spot for me, it’s that so much of the end game content can only be experienced if a commander is keeping everybody locked in and explaining things, herding cats, and that’s a ton of pressure if someone doesn’t have the personality type to want to lead/teach all the time. Or maybe they’re tired after a long day of work, and don’t feel like logging in and explaining KO, OLC, or Boneskinner for the 100th time while wiping. Would it kill the devs to add an NPC who could explain the mechanics or give some hints for success? I'll give an example, what if Rytlock as an NPC was available to show a new player how to do basic damage rotations for Revenant (or its subclasses), and you could follow along with him and practice? Or a quest where you have to learn to use boons, and demonstrate the importance of upkeeping Quickness/Alacrity/etc. boons? For a strike like Boneskinner, you could have Jhavi give you a run-down on why Boneskinner is so dangerous, it could be optional if experienced players didn't want to use it. A little bit of learning could go a long way. I laughed when I got to EoD, and there's a training quest explaining how skill combos work and how cc/defiance break bars work. I was like, why aren't there tons of these everywhere, and integrated into all stages of the game? It's an effective way to educate players on the skills they'll need. With that being said, I understand killproof and static groups, since you’re able to side step this, and just get straight into end game content. I totally get why they’re popular. I spend much of my time teaching strikes, helping new training groups, or with quests, and it’s rewarding to see new players get it and succeed. I just wish there was more intuitive multiplayer content where newbies were able to rise to the occasion and shine, and to contribute something quickly. Open world content and metas seems to be best for this. TLDR: To summarize, it's as if GW2 will punish you if you don't already know certain things about the end-game, but it simultaneously isn't setting you up for success, and doesn't help you learn/master those things for the end-game. This is a hard contrast to leveling to 80, where the player experience feels beginner friendly/inclusive. I'm glad streamers like Preach are playing GW2, and helping to shine a light on this, because the devs need to receive that type of feedback. Jedah fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 17, 2023 |
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