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Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

Arivia posted:

Owlcat was always pretty clearly into the 3.5 optimization culture, which was why they did the Pathfinder 1e games. It makes sense they wouldn't be into Pathfinder 2e, which really doesn't play like that at all.

From perusing their discord it seems like they don't like the idea of switching to 2e because they'd have to completely rethink their game instead of building on what they had in Kingmaker and WotR, which is understandable.

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Roadie
Jun 30, 2013
Owlcat could never make a PF 2e game because their approach to 'difficulty' would just fall apart would just fall apart the second they touched rules that were tightly balanced in the first place.

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired
I will show my rear end and admit that I'm on my 2nd playthrough of WotR, and occasionally just turn the difficulty to story mode, turn of tactics mode, and pretty much win instantly when I don't feel like doing some bullshit fight.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
I still haven't played through Kingmaker or Wrath because I launch them, play for a bit and it's PF1 ughhhhhhhhhhhh.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

Clerical Terrors posted:

From perusing their discord it seems like they don't like the idea of switching to 2e because they'd have to completely rethink their game instead of building on what they had in Kingmaker and WotR, which is understandable.

I get it, but I don’t like that it means no more Pathfinder games from Owlcat.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

I hated playing the second half of Kingmaker with all my heart.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


CottonWolf posted:

I get it, but I don’t like that it means no more Pathfinder games from Owlcat.

Does it? There is no reason for paizo to refuse to license any of the old pf1 adventure paths for further games.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

Andrast posted:

Does it? There is no reason for paizo to refuse to license any of the old pf1 adventure paths for further games.

I was just skeptical that Paizo would want to touch any of their old 1e OGL stuff at this point.

The Golux
Feb 18, 2017

Internet Cephalopod



Mister Olympus posted:

weirdly, small jousters do tend to work better than medium jousters because of the rule about 'tall' vs 'long' sizes and how reach weapons shrink when mounted



wait does 2e let you hit adjacent to yourself with a reach weapon, or only when mounted, or what? (not that those squares aren't threatened by mount anyway).

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

In terms of getting a good feel for GMing 2e, is the beginners set/adventure as good as anything? Or any particular suggestions?

Context: I haven’t GMed in a few years, but have done it on and off for other systems including D&D 4e and Savage Worlds

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

In terms of getting a good feel for GMing 2e, is the beginners set/adventure as good as anything? Or any particular suggestions?

Context: I haven’t GMed in a few years, but have done it on and off for other systems including D&D 4e and Savage Worlds

The beginner box is a good introduction yes. Pathfinder 2e is pretty similar to D&D 4e in terms of GM knowledge/effort needed.

Cyouni
Sep 30, 2014

without love it cannot be seen

The Golux posted:

wait does 2e let you hit adjacent to yourself with a reach weapon, or only when mounted, or what? (not that those squares aren't threatened by mount anyway).

Yes, in general.

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

In terms of getting a good feel for GMing 2e, is the beginners set/adventure as good as anything? Or any particular suggestions?

Context: I haven’t GMed in a few years, but have done it on and off for other systems including D&D 4e and Savage Worlds

Yeah, it's great.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
The beginner box specifically ramps up every fight/encounter with a different mechanic. By the end you'll have experienced many different concepts, including (most likely) the dying subsystem if you go up against the optional boss.

It's also just a fun, classic dungeon crawl.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
I'm digging it.
https://twitter.com/paizo/status/1653822986099499008

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

The Golux posted:

wait does 2e let you hit adjacent to yourself with a reach weapon, or only when mounted, or what? (not that those squares aren't threatened by mount anyway).

It’s in the rules for mounted combat and in the rules for size increases. The squares you can hit with reach vs non-reach are different for every size category of mount, and the size categories themselves make distinctions between “long” size and “tall” size such that an ogre gets inherent reach where a horse doesn’t.

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator


That's cool. I hope this means, eventually, every outer plane gets a new dragon. I guess this is really an infernal dragon update. (Edit: Luis Loza confirmed on Paizo's website that infernal dragons still exist as a separate thing, and may get a 2e update eventually.)

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 3, 2023

Dungeon Meister
Apr 25, 2023

I haven't played 2e yet, but I'm curious about the way you take up to three actions on your turn. It sounds like a fun, versatile mechanic, but I was wondering if it slowed combat down or caused balance issues. What's everyone's experience with it?

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna
2Es math is generally well balanced and tight. A poorly built character vs a hyper optimized character are going to be a lot closer in combat effectiveness than in other similar games. The action economy is a big part of that and one of the most lauded aspects of the design for both the balance and the freedom it provides.

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


If you know what you're doing with it, it can free up players and enemies to do more interesting things, including non-combat encounter interactions with consequence. Depending on your players you may have to break them out of "OK, so I attack, I attack again, and... I attack."

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.


It does mean that a lot more martial / utility classes have actions they can take that modify their attacks. Swashbucklers can do things to gain panache, rogues can do a variety of feints to make their enemy flat footed, you can try and demoralise your enemies, etc.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
2e fighters are goddamn amazing I can't stop crying poo poo with power attack :black101:

Magil Zeal
Nov 24, 2008

Dungeon Meister posted:

I haven't played 2e yet, but I'm curious about the way you take up to three actions on your turn. It sounds like a fun, versatile mechanic, but I was wondering if it slowed combat down or caused balance issues. What's everyone's experience with it?

I built my alchemist with the action economy in mind; I have a lot of options between Quick Bomber, training in every Recall Knowledge monster skill, Battle Medicine, and the witch archetype for Shield + Electric Arc. Every turn I use some combination of these, pretty much, or I just find cover and duck behind it after tossing a bomb. Some sample turns I might do are like Recall Knowledge + move + Quick Bomber, Quick Bomber + Electric Arc, move + Quick Bomber + Take Cover or Shield, etc. I read that alchemists can have difficulties finding useful things to do with their actions if they invest in a lot of pre-combat buff items, so I wanted to make sure I have plenty of options in combat actions.

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.
Supports the Trevor Project
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/starfinder-solidarity-bundle-paizo-inc-books

Scrap Dragon
Oct 6, 2013

SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!


Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

Scrap Dragon posted:

Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

Take your time. Learn together.

gurragadon
Jul 28, 2006

Scrap Dragon posted:

Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

If you aren't doing it try the beginner box, apparently it goes into Abomination Vaults pretty well. Also, the beginner box was enough to get our 5e group going in Pathfinder 2e. There's a ton to learn but it gives you the basics really well and the dungeon is alright.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Scrap Dragon posted:

Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

Make sure to read over every encounter before the session and take notes on stuff you think might come up (this area has difficult terrain, this is how blindness works). also if you're not using the hardcover collection, mr. beak should have vampiric touch swapped for phantom pain.

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.
Looks like we're getting a book next year with 6 new ancestries, including minotaurs and centaurs.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siay?Grandmother-s-Story-Part-5-The-Howl-of-the-Wild

(Scroll down through the story.)

E: Hoping this means we get other big ancestries like half-giant.

3 Action Economist fucked around with this message at 23:55 on May 12, 2023

SilverMike
Sep 17, 2007

TBD


Scrap Dragon posted:

Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

Make sure your PCs have discussed their party's combat tactics by the time they get to dungeon level 3. They need to have some sort of understanding of what everyone wants to do and how to help each other do it. Sounds basic, but my group of PCs didn't do this and eventually ate a TPK that could have been avoided.

Mechayahiko
May 27, 2011

Doctor Rope

Scrap Dragon posted:

Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

Have the players read https://downloads.paizo.com/AbominationVaults_PlayersGuide.pdf. It will give them an idea of whats expected, background info and what classes and skills work well. Are you running it on a VTT or in person?

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Dungeon Meister posted:

I haven't played 2e yet, but I'm curious about the way you take up to three actions on your turn. It sounds like a fun, versatile mechanic, but I was wondering if it slowed combat down or caused balance issues. What's everyone's experience with it?
Once everyone maps to it, it's smooth like butter. It definitely takes some clunk to get there, but once the players realize the rules are there to facilitate smoothness, not hinder, it goes fast.

Lamuella posted:

If you know what you're doing with it, it can free up players and enemies to do more interesting things, including non-combat encounter interactions with consequence. Depending on your players you may have to break them out of "OK, so I attack, I attack again, and... I attack."
Sadly also this. The multiple attack penalty is clearly designed to mitigate this unless the players prioritize minimizing it. It's also on the GM to use 3 actions for the monsters to show how devastating they can be if the players don't use stuns, disarms, debuffs, etc.

3 Action Economist posted:

Looks like we're getting a book next year with 6 new ancestries, including minotaurs and centaurs.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siay?Grandmother-s-Story-Part-5-The-Howl-of-the-Wild

(Scroll down through the story.)

E: Hoping this means we get other big ancestries like half-giant.

Absolutely loving the Concert Frog.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm running my first Stolen Fate session soon. Nervous but also very excited. So far it's an enjoyable Adventure but I've never run anything this high level, and 50% of our party is brand new to TTRPGs. Going to be a hell of an experiment.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Dungeon Meister posted:

I haven't played 2e yet, but I'm curious about the way you take up to three actions on your turn. It sounds like a fun, versatile mechanic, but I was wondering if it slowed combat down or caused balance issues. What's everyone's experience with it?

there's an optional rule in the gamemastery guide that i think makes it play even smoother: if you're making a movement action and need to make another movement action or a movement-related action during that movement action (ie you're Striding to a wall, then you Climb it), then you get to take any leftover movement after the second action resolves. so you can Stride 15 feet [one action], Climb [second action], Stride 10 feet more [this is the leftover movement from the first Stride so you're still at two actions spent]. I'd also apply this if you need to say, open a door in the middle of your Stride (an Interact action).

It adds a LITTLE bit of complexity but it sounds much more complicated than it actually is, and it makes the game play even better with the three action model.

Clerical Terrors
Apr 24, 2016

I'm so tired, I'm so very tired

Scrap Dragon posted:

Any advice for someone running Abomination Vaults for the first time? This'll also be my first time running Pathfinder and I'll be running it for people who have only ever played 5e before

Being a player in a similar situation rn: give them some opportunities to correct or rethink builds. It's really easy to grab traits or feats that just don't work for you in Pathfinder.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Clerical Terrors posted:

Being a player in a similar situation rn: give them some opportunities to correct or rethink builds. It's really easy to grab traits or feats that just don't work for you in Pathfinder.

To go with this, don’t be afraid to handwave retraining times at lower levels while people figure out what they’re doing with their characters. It takes a week to retain a known spell for a sorcerer for example, which is pretty crummy if everyone is still in gogogogo dungeon mode otherwise.

HidaO-Win
Jun 5, 2013

"And I did it, because I was a man who had exhausted reason and thus turned to magicks"
Some of the fights in Abomination Vaults take place in some quite small rooms and corridors, if your party is melee heavy, try not to jam them in a doorway where only 1 or 2 of them can fight at a time or suggest they retreat a few squares to give other characters space to get stuck in.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk
One solution I've seen discussed is to change the scale of maps so that each square is 10'. It is pretty easy to change in Foundry and gives melee a lot more room to maneuver.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

I signed up to play in my first 2e/Pathfinder Society game this Friday. I emailed the organizer, but is there anything people suggest to come ready? Do they typically have pre-gen characters on hand, or should I be putting one together?

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the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

I signed up to play in my first 2e/Pathfinder Society game this Friday. I emailed the organizer, but is there anything people suggest to come ready? Do they typically have pre-gen characters on hand, or should I be putting one together?

Most of the ones I've been to have pregens on hand for new players, and then you can apply the xp and quest rewards to the character you eventually make for yourself.

That said, not a bad idea to be looking at the website and making a character for yourself, especially since you get free re-dos up until like level 3 or 4, so if you end up hating your Fighter, you can retcon it to being a Wizard with no hassle, so you'll have plenty of time to decide what sort of character feels like a better fit for you.

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