(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
|
Apparently the Kinzhal missile that was shot down last week was targeting missile battery that shot it down. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/12/politics/russia-patriot-missiles-ukraine/index.html quote:Russia tried to destroy a US-made Patriot air defense system in Ukraine last week with a hypersonic missile, two US officials told CNN. Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 12, 2023 |
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 17:02 |
|
|
Brain65 posted:Ukraine has decided to build some tanks itself in Kharkiv, it's a variant of the Oplot which itself is an iteration of T84. It has some better optics and electronics than the Oplot and it will cost around 4 million. Some sites say it's a direct consequence of the joint venture of the Rheinmetal and Ukroboronprom that was announced a few days ago; although that venture was supposed to build some other tanks. vOv. Wonder how soon they can start churning them out. T-84s are interesting. They're essentially T-80s that have been heavily altered. They're derived from T-80UDs, a variant of T-80 that exchanged the fuel-hungry gas turbine engine out for a powerful multi-fuel engine. Said engine was recently upgraded to a new design within the past ten years or so. Considering how light the tank is compared to western equivalents, it can boast a solid power-to-weight ratio. The domestic models are fitted for Russian/Soviet munitions, but Turkey got an export of the T-84 that have mounted NATO weaponry, including a 120mm tank gun that can also fire Soviet Refleks ATGMs. This is even complete with its own unique style of autoloader. It's a fairly robust tank that still carries some of the unavoidable issues inherent in the design, but even the Oplot has safer ammo stowage than any Russian tank (in theory). OddObserver posted:Hopefully by "Kharkiv" they mean "someplace like Poland", since Kharkiv is way to close to the border.... Funny that. South Korea and Poland's defense companies have been palling around, with the belief that South Korea will help Poland set up some factories to build K2 tanks, among other equipment. Places like Czechia have been helping Ukraine by upgrading older Soviet tanks (T-55s and such) with things like digital displays.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:11
|
|
|
Ha! That's a real "catch the fist and twist it backwards" move, GJ on those Patriot operators! ...I hope the PACs are mobile. Edit: apparently in Kharkiv they're using soviet-era bunkers for final assembly of the tanks. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:12
|
|
|
Wait, wasn't one of the hype points about hypersonic weapons was the ability to target down air defense first? And it just turns out Patriots are already ready for that, huh.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:15
|
|
|
I wonder just how many missiles it took, and what aspect of attack actually worked. I mean, not that they're ever gonna tell anyone.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:19
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:Ha! There's lots of heavy machinery production in Kharkiv from tractors (there's a whole district called "Traktorniy Zavod'" aka "Tractor Factory"). Famously the world's loneliest tank from the patriot day parade was a Kharkiv product circa 1940 or whatever, lol. Edit: Here's me at the entrance to the Kharkiv Tractor Factory when I lived near there in a different lifetime:  Edit: Russia should be happy. They targeted a Patriot and they got a Patriot. 
mutata fucked around with this message at 22:45 on May 12, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:42
|
|
|
Ionicpsycho posted:Wait, wasn't one of the hype points about hypersonic weapons was the ability to target down air defense first? And it just turns out Patriots are already ready for that, huh. With a hypersonic launched at close range it would be a lot harder for an air defense system to detect, track and target a missile. Russia is firing these things from within their airspace at the maximum distance possible. Even at hypersonic speeds you have eons to detect, track and target. It just comes down to basic math at the end of the day. You are able to track it’s speed, heading and altitude you can intercept. The Patriots are incredibly good at both parts of being able to do that. The initial firing solution from the ground and the last stage intercept in the air for the kill. I believe it was originally designed to counter high speed nuclear bombers that the Soviets were planning. It was a happy accident when they realized it could also hit missiles pretty well.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 22:47
|
|
|
Are those awards the factory was given during Soviet times? I see what looks like two Orders of Lenin and Order of the Red Banner for Labor. I'm not sure about the other two.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
mutata posted:Edit: Russia should be happy. They targeted a Patriot and they got a Patriot. quote:Russia reports successful destruction of US-made Patriot missile
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2023 23:15
|
|
|
I'd assume the main purpose of that Patriot battery is to be a black hole for expensive cruise missiles
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 00:01
|
|
|
FuturePastNow posted:I'd assume the main purpose of that Patriot battery is to be a black hole for expensive cruise missiles I'd say that's a tertiary purpose. Russia deliberately bombs civilians, so purpose 1 is to protect the innocent, purpose 2 is to protect everything else Ukraine needs for the war. Eliminating Russia's most expensive conventional weapons is a nice side effect on top of those.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 00:33
|
|
|
Funny how just a few months ago the prospect of Patriots in the hands of Ukraine was seen as laughable by some.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
I still find it laughable. And I'm gonna keep laughing at every extra spicy Russian shitcan they shoot down. Hearty belly laughs, as if I had the beard of a lumberjack.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 00:49
|
|
|
Kind of un-nerving that Russia was able to locate and target the Patriot in the first place.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 02:50
|
|
|
Henrik Zetterberg posted:Kind of un-nerving that Russia was able to locate and target the Patriot in the first place. It's a radar-based system so not exactly subtle.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 03:04
|
|
|
Henrik Zetterberg posted:Kind of un-nerving that Russia was able to locate and target the Patriot in the first place. Not really, any piece of equipment that uses radar to actively scan the sky for threats is fairly easy to shoot at, you just need a missile that follows the radar signal to its source (called an anti-radiation missile). The game of air defense is all about using as much passive detection (e.g. squaddies on top of hills with binoculars) as you can and only turning on your active detection (radar) when you know there is a threat and you are ready to shoot at it. At the start of the invasion last year one of the smart things that Ukraine did was turn off, scatter and hide a lot of their air defense hardware because they knew Russia would try to obliterate it all in their first wave of strikes so they could then establish air supremacy.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
You can also assume Russia could find it through signals intelligence or satellite imagery then use GPS or glonass to dial in the coordinates.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 03:22
|
|
|
Orthanc6 posted:I'd say that's a tertiary purpose. Russia deliberately bombs civilians, so purpose 1 is to protect the innocent, purpose 2 is to protect everything else Ukraine needs for the war. Eliminating Russia's most expensive conventional weapons is a nice side effect on top of those. I'm sure it's positioned to protect something important, but it's a priority target for the Russians on its own, and every missile they shoot at it is one that won't hit an apartment building or a tractor factory.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 03:48
|
|
|
It's apparently easy enough to find military radars, you can find them with publicly-available satellite data off of the interference bands they create. Speaking of which... https://twitter.com/bradyafr/status/1655214652630892545?s=20
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 03:49
|
|
|
Gervasius posted:and, if situation requires, frontal aviation fighter and bomber aircraft. This is the purest cope I've ever seen. Next we'll hear that prigozhin defeated two bullets with his forehead Fake edit: those Ukrainian tanks are very cool and look amazing (which is what matters most, after all) Vaginaface fucked around with this message at 04:48 on May 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 04:45
|
|
|
First confiscated Russian funds sent to Ukraine https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-attorney-general-oks-transfer-forfeited-funds-russia-oligarch-use-ukraine-2023-05-10/
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 05:14
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:First confiscated Russian funds sent to Ukraine Good. But. Not "to" Ukraine, "for" Ukraine. No details at all about who actually got the money.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 08:41
|
|
|
I've checked a few sources and it's clear this was a press release statement, but I can't find the original for full context.
|
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 08:50
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:I've checked a few sources and it's clear this was a press release statement, but I can't find the original for full context. I honestly assumed it was a satirical thing generated by AI
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 09:03
|
|
|
Jamsque posted:Not really, any piece of equipment that uses radar to actively scan the sky for threats is fairly easy to shoot at, you just need a missile that follows the radar signal to its source (called an anti-radiation missile). The game of air defense is all about using as much passive detection (e.g. squaddies on top of hills with binoculars) as you can and only turning on your active detection (radar) when you know there is a threat and you are ready to shoot at it. At the start of the invasion last year one of the smart things that Ukraine did was turn off, scatter and hide a lot of their air defense hardware because they knew Russia would try to obliterate it all in their first wave of strikes so they could then establish air supremacy. Adding a little bit: radar is a gigantic spotlight that just happens to be outside of the spectrum that we can actually see, and you’re looking for a reflection from something/anything when you’re using it. Civilians can and have built some really janky setups that can triangulate radio signals pretty well (rumor is some people have actually built a hobby out of this to track the broadcast origin of some numbers stations). If you’ve got nation-state level funding to solve the problem, you’ll have some very accurate (and probably explosive!) solutions.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 09:58
|
|
|
Djarum posted:With a hypersonic launched at close range it would be a lot harder for an air defense system to detect, track and target a missile. Russia is firing these things from within their airspace at the maximum distance possible. Even at hypersonic speeds you have eons to detect, track and target. I read that patriots are pretty good at hitting hypersonic missiles as long as they know where they're going to be and can get there first. It sounds like being the target of the missile is near perfect conditions for them.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 10:43
|
|
|
Helicopter shot down in a Bryansk region https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1657322685636960256?t=mRnJ8IFwuMQCIZ4B-8qBjA&s=19 https://twitter.com/Userchuk/status/1657323663803269120?t=qPjdLhyjOrS-0-9B2stjPQ&s=19 Probably friendly fire? -- Also, seems sus, cant find source https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1657317762157477888?t=d-iZKQe1xYmJ9AueZo4ZXw&s=19 fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 11:03 on May 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 11:00
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:Probably friendly fire? A real friend wouldn't do that to you!  If it was flying too close to the border then I wouldn't rule out Ukrainian fire. But it's impossible to tell from this. Droog ili vrag, vsyo rovno!  e: Klintsy isn't anywhere near the border so it makes Ukrainian fire unlikely, but also makes you wonder who would fire at a helicopter on the Russian side either? Could it be malfunction or even sabotage? Can't see a missile, but video quality is poor. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 11:17 on May 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 11:10
|
|
|
The turnaround from announcement to use on those missiles is impressive. Clearly a done deal and the public talk of a long range missile procurement processes was timed to test the water (although apparently that is still happening as a separate thing) With the helicopter crash, it seemed like the Russians immediately lied about it, saying it was an engine fire, but then, a twist: https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1657328952808013825 Chalks fucked around with this message at 11:21 on May 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 11:11
|
|
|
Chalks posted:The turnaround from announcement to use on those missiles is impressive. Clearly a done deal and the public talk of a long range missile procurement processes was timed to test the water (although apparently that is still happening as a separate thing) Similar thing happened with HARM missiles - except Russians posted photos of identifiable fragments and officials were then "oh yeah, we now supply those I guess  "
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 11:22
|
|
|
Germany really stepping up aid: https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1657331685321502722 I imagine at least the IRIS stuff will take quite a while to actually produce, but these are all super-helpful. (There is also apparently a der Spiegel report (how is that der things supposed to be handled, anyway?)
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 11:45
|
|
|
True for a lot of equipment. In the very beginning there were tons of videos of armoured vehicles getting struck from the side by some rocket without a shooter visible. Turns out Ukraine got a ton of PARM mines. Also Matadors in Mariupol; BONUS and SMART were just billed as "artillery ammunition". It's hard to hide large hardware, but a lot of mystery ammunition mysteriously appeared in Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 11:48
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:Germany really stepping up aid: How do the quantity and quality of Ukraine's various military equipment compare to other NATO countries at this point?
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 12:07
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:Helicopters are aerodynamic blasphemy, created by Sikorsky himself and further refined into even more blasphemous creatures (aka the Osprey) by engineers with neither soul nor conscience. They don’t actually fly, the ground repels the foul beasts as best it can until it can trick them into crashing. The changing face of evil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr4N8qszpys
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 12:11
|
|
|
^^^^ One of today's self-destructed Russian helicopters may have changed its face enough to have become a jet fighter of some sort. Vaginaface posted:How do the quantity and quality of Ukraine's various military equipment compare to other NATO countries at this point? Probably more ground equipment than anyone not named US, but that was probably the case before the war, too (except maybe Poland?), though it's an inconsistent hodge-podge mess and a lot of it is old Soviet stuff. The air force is small and obsolete, though.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 12:12
|
|
|
Now a plane crashed in the same region, Su-34, confirmed by TASS https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/status/1657339968438558722?t=hBP4nzOb8zvJKzI_hcX7gw&s=19
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 12:13
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1657341011763380224 "Two drones knocking a few tiles off the roof of the Kremlin? Why would Ukraine do something so pointless?" *Panicked Russian air defences shoot down two of their own fighter jets and a helicopter in the same day* "oh" Chalks fucked around with this message at 12:51 on May 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 12:14
|
|
|
Vaginaface posted:How do the quantity and quality of Ukraine's various military equipment compare to other NATO countries at this point? Both kinda "eh". Lots of people in uniform, as you'd expect, but the equipment consists of lots of hand-me-downs from donor countries plus soviet-era hardware that makes up the bulk of their materiel. All the fancy poo poo they got is in short supply. The comparison to other NATO countries is a bit difficult. NATO countries tend to be somewhat specialised and have been more focused on GWoT than peer conflicts, but they have hoarded all the fancy gear that, as Ukraine has also shown, has a really pronounced effect. It's a bit of a T55 to Leopard 2A7V comparison.
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 12:22
|
|
|
Could it be a covert unit with Iglas or Stingers that infiltrated over the border? Still, 2 helicopters and 1 plane is kinda crazy for that alone
|
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 13:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 17:02 |
|
|
fatherboxx posted:Could it be a covert unit with Iglas or Stingers that infiltrated over the border? Still, 2 helicopters and 1 plane is kinda crazy for that alone https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1657357444392140801 Not one plane, two  There is talk of it being some sort of infiltration but that's also been denied by the Russian authorities. I guess incompetence is the most likely explanation. It's all in a similar area so it might all be one AD system, maybe even one operator. Source for the infiltration rumour and denial: https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1657347115830456320 Chalks fucked around with this message at 13:26 on May 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 13, 2023 13:22
|
|