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Omobono posted:Possibly but while wolves and dogs might still be the same species the differences are quite evident. By now humans have managed to get dog domestication into their DNA; look at a wolf for like 5 minutes and you'll notice they aren't a dog from a lot of small things. It's not possibly, it's absolutely the main stream scientific belief. If house cats were as big as wolves they'd be a lot different than their wild cousins too, because no one would let an aggressive predator that big near them. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-wolves-really-became-dogs-180970014/ quote:“That the first domesticated animal was a large carnivore, who would have been a competitor for food—anyone who has spent time with wild wolves would see how unlikely it was that we somehow tamed them in a way that led to domestication,” says Brian Hare, director of the Duke University Canine Cognition Center.
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May 13, 2023 09:34
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Even if it was, lighting someone up for not having traditional masculine qualities kind of sucks. It doesn't on this case. Kind of like how ripping Trump for his outward qualities is a-OK because he brought it first.
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May 13, 2023 10:19
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DarkCrawler posted:It doesn't on this case. Kind of like how ripping Trump for his outward qualities is a-OK because he brought it first. Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s good to keep the higher ground instead of bringing yourself down to their level
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May 13, 2023 10:32
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Cool NIN Shirt posted:Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s good to keep the higher ground instead of bringing yourself down to their level It is never wrong to make fun of a Republican provided that you don't accidentally insult non-Republicans at the same time. Higher ground doesn't exist.
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May 13, 2023 10:36
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Yeah, and cats domesticated themselves. They actively chose to hang around with humans because our food supplies attracted delicious rats and mice and cats were like "I live here now" and humanity as a whole has just been rolling with that ever since. Heck it's been found that cats self domesticated more than once. There's archeological evidence that two, maybe even three completely separate species of feline self-domesticated. Obviously only one won out in the end, but cats really like humans and the food they provide.
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May 13, 2023 10:54
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Cool NIN Shirt posted:Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s good to keep the higher ground instead of bringing yourself down to their level gently caress the higher ground. Hit them anywhere it hurts, sweep the leg, stop waffling around with  Something everyone else except Republicans seem to be unable to understand in American politics. Republicans deserve anything that can be heaped upon them. Doesn't matter if it is a politician or a voter, each and every one is scum.
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May 13, 2023 11:37
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Bel Shazar posted:It is never wrong to make fun of a Republican provided that you don't accidentally insult non-Republicans at the same time. That’s the issue, if you attack a Republican for their “outward qualities”—in this case it’s Josh Hawley not having traditional masculine qualities—you’re attacking everyone who shares those same outward qualities, Republican or otherwise. Attack their stated beliefs, not their personal characteristics.
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May 13, 2023 12:57
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DarkCrawler posted:gently caress the higher ground. Hit them anywhere it hurts, sweep the leg, stop waffling around with No thank you, I’ll continue to refrain from attacking other people for their personal appearance and other physical characteristics.
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May 13, 2023 13:04
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Alkydere posted:Heck it's been found that cats self domesticated more than once. There's archeological evidence that two, maybe even three completely separate species of feline self-domesticated. Obviously only one won out in the end, but cats really like humans and the food they provide. To an extent, if we observed this behaviour between two non-human species (and we do), we'd say "hey, those creatures have a symbiotic relationship!" but because humans are involved, people are like "we domesticated cats."
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May 13, 2023 13:14
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I think I need to sign to tap about 'Calling out conservatives for hypocrisy doesn't work'. They know they're doing it, and they consider you paying attention to it a success. And PETA is an awful organisation that's done tons of damage to animal rights causes by relying on people who take them at their word. They're somewhere between grift and full on psyop with attention-seeking stunts while operating kill-only shelters because actually taking care of animals takes work.
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May 13, 2023 13:59
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Also, like, even if you think you're just pointing out hypocrisy, telling someone they "don't look manly" is hitting a bunch of innocent people who might look something like that in the crossfire.
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May 13, 2023 14:21
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I thought it was because he's making a stupid face.
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May 13, 2023 14:48
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I'm not sure if it's a useful attack, but finding catharsis in hypocrisy is valid, particularly if you already believe that you don't need to have "traditionally manly qualities" to "be a man." The phase "don't look manly" should be nearly meaningless to almost anyone but maybe some trans people (and even then, I suspect they can see through mockery of toxic masculinity) Like, I am absolutely going to find it funny that almost none of the people pushing "traditional manly qualities" have those qualities. What I personally don't like/think is more distasteful is when a single quality is treated as the point of attack/mockery without the context that it's hypocritical of their toxic beliefs.
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May 13, 2023 14:54
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Clarste posted:Also, like, even if you think you're just pointing out hypocrisy, telling someone they "don't look manly" is hitting a bunch of innocent people who might look something like that in the crossfire. Exactly right - making fun of Trump for being fat only makes random people feel worse about themselves, calling incels “kissless virgins” propagates the idea that self-worth is rooted in how many sexual partners you have, etc. IMO, whatever personal catharsis you might experience isn’t worth harming innocent people and poisoning the narrative.
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May 13, 2023 15:33
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Literally everyone here complaining about people making fun of him are doing it on the basic foundational of fundamentally buying into his bullshit which is way more damaging to people than mocking the guy, Jesus.
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May 13, 2023 15:33
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Clarste posted:Also, like, even if you think you're just pointing out hypocrisy, telling someone they "don't look manly" is hitting a bunch of innocent people who might look something like that in the crossfire. It's "don't look manly according to their own stated definition of manly, which is what they're currently ranting about", not "doesn't look manly, which is a bad thing in and of itself". Mercury_Storm posted:I thought it was because he's making a stupid face. That's the gateway mocking that has lead us to our current situation. Personally I'm more interested in the forms of government that have survived without men.
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May 13, 2023 15:51
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Gyges posted:It's "don't look manly according to their own stated definition of manly, which is what they're currently ranting about", not "doesn't look manly, which is a bad thing in and of itself". https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/g28565280/matriarchal-societies-list/ The Mosou might be the closest.
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May 13, 2023 16:29
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GlyphGryph posted:Literally everyone here complaining about people making fun of him are doing it on the basic foundational of fundamentally buying into his bullshit No, saying “HE LOOKS INDECISIVE AND WEAK LOL” is buying into his bullshit? Or at least spreading it in a sarcastic way - I’m sure we don’t need to rehash the “it’s just sarcastic sexism/racism/whatever” argument again in 2023.
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May 13, 2023 16:36
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Cool NIN Shirt posted:That’s the issue, if you attack a Republican for their “outward qualities”—in this case it’s Josh Hawley not having traditional masculine qualities—you’re attacking everyone who shares those same outward qualities, Republican or otherwise. The problem isn't that he doesn't look manly, the problem is that he is saying that traits he himself doesn't have are somehow important. You're attacking hypocrisy. That is him literally not matching the harmful stereotypes he is perpetuating. If I make fun of a conservative who is attacking gays being found with male prostitutes I am not saying that it is wrong to have sex with men.
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May 13, 2023 16:46
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So much for the tolerant left!!!! Having some right winger / libertarian pop up to say that when one mocks rush Limbaugh for dying or whatever almost makes me miss facebook. Then their very next post is calling Michelle Obama a Bigfoot gorilla person or some other garbage. End of the day mocking people in these ways is just culture war banner bearing, not that I'm gonna clutch any pearls over it.
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May 13, 2023 16:58
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I called the fash hypocrites and they all disappeared in a puff of logic
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May 13, 2023 17:10
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I called the fash hypocrites and they all disappeared in a puff of logic unfortunately just shooting fascists is "political violence" and is considered detestable, so people cope in different ways.
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May 13, 2023 17:17
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I’m comfortable saying Hawley is a hypocrite. I’m also comfortable saying Hawley doen’t live up to definitions of the positive characteristics usually attributed to masculinity by the culture without having to link those to his manliness. So let’s divorce those attributes from manliness and just describe Josh Hawley. Josh Hawley is a coward https://youtu.be/ByWvdGJ8CwM Josh Hawley is a follower of a narcissist not a leader. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/01/20/hawley-legal-arguments-president-senate-riot/ Josh Hawley lashes out verbally, the way weak people who luck into power do. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3905729-hawley-in-back-and-forth-with-local-reporter-just-want-to-make-sure-youre-sober/ Josh Hawley is not independent. https://www.ky3.com/2022/07/21/sen-josh-hawley-i-think-president-trumps-endorsement-matters-primary-election/?outputType=amp So Josh Hawley is a cowardly, weak, sycophantic follower of a narcissist.
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May 13, 2023 17:19
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No one should teach children of any gender to be like Josh Hawley. Oof that’s so much worse than merely calling him unmanly.
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May 13, 2023 17:24
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Either way you're not winning any wars with insults. I've had to tell people over and over- browbeating and shaming ONLY maybe sometimes works if you're actually in a position that someone respects and values the opinions of, otherwise you're just an annoying piece of poo poo.
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May 13, 2023 17:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Either way you're not winning any wars with insults. I've had to tell people over and over- browbeating and shaming ONLY maybe sometimes works if you're actually in a position that someone respects and values the opinions of, otherwise you're just an annoying piece of poo poo. Yah I think the thing to remember is when you are trying to point out this hypocrisy is that you aren't trying to convince Josh Hawley or his true belivers, there are other people who need to hear that there is problems with his thinking.
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May 13, 2023 17:46
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Moose is correct. And as a bonus it illustrates the emptiness and hypocrisy in what DD has to say regarding Hawley and folks making fun of him.
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May 13, 2023 17:56
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Nobody is saying that you are winning the entire war with insults or rendering fascists into tearful useless piles by calling them out on their hypocrisy. It's simply part doing everything you can to engender hostility towards fascists in any context. Insults and shaming have made it harder to be a Republican in many places. Even if it is just some random corner of the internet (remember when this one used to have Republicans?) it is one place less. People who think that "going high" still has any appeal to anybody in America are still stuck on the West Wing idea of politics where you can win by moral example of leadership and decorum and a good speech. You win by hate and fear, and that is why Biden isn't running on his accomplishments but on how hosed up Republicans are and how they're trying to gently caress you over. Exploit any weakness. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 13, 2023 |
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May 13, 2023 18:02
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FBI Raids Russian-Owned Condo in FL Trump Towers https://www.thedailybeast.com/fbi-raids-russian-owned-condo-in-trump-towers-on-sunny-isles-beach quote:Scores of FBI agents and Florida police ambushed Trump Tower III on “Little Moscow” Sunny Isles Beach Thursday to search a condo unit owned by a shell corporation two Russian businessmen oversee. An FBI Miami field office spokesman told the Miami Herald that it “was conducting court-ordered law enforcement activity in the vicinity of that location,” but did not elaborate on the details. The men, Oleg Sergeyevich Patsulya and Agunda Konstantinovna Makeeva, did not respond for comment. “I can’t talk about it,” Patsulya’s wife, Roza Pereira, told the Miami Herald. “The lawyer [for my husband] said not to talk to anyone. ... I have no idea what it’s about.” Pereira is also listed under the company MIC-USA LLC, according to state records of the corporate documents. MIC-USA purchased the three-bedroom, three-bathroom residence a decade ago for $1.65 million. The raid apparently happened on Thursday but this is the first in hearing of it unless I totally missed it being discussed here. Could have something to do with sanctions maybe?
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May 13, 2023 18:04
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shimmy shimmy posted:This is wrong, incidentally. The coin wouldn't be inflationary because it's not actually being spent or circulated in any actual sense - it wouldn't affect any existing debt obligations, it would just allow the Treasury to continue to create new Treasury bonds and use that to finance new spending as normal as it's essentially an accounting trick. The thing is, the debt limit is also an accounting trick, in that it doesn't actually impact spending or issuing debts except that it's an arbitrary number after which the government shoots itself in the face. Selling existing debt in that framing still causes inflation, debt financing is inflationary. Also, increasing the amount of publicly circulating US debt in this manner at the same time as an unusual financial maneuver is going to hurt US bond prices. Much of this debt was acquired at lower interest rates, so your going to have to sell it at a discount from its face value to account for the difference from market rate, locking in even MORE inflation of the effective supply of money. Its a bad idea, and worse magic thinking. Premium bonds might just be a worse idea. First point its debatable if the law establishing borrowing authority even ALLOWS a instrument with no maturity date. For the second, debt financing, even with financial trickery causes inflation. Third, this would send another shock-wave through the bond market, likely triggering another round of bank failures unless literally everyone is allowed to exchange for them. letting everyone do it would retroactively increase inflation caused by existing debt.
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May 13, 2023 18:08
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DarkCrawler posted:Exploit any weakness. So I’ve been revisiting Moral Man and Immoral Society. It’s been twenty years since I’ve read it . It’s generally regarded as the tome for non violent resistance. It’s not the book it’s widely regarded as, it’s much much more interesting than that. It’s probably worth starting a thread on.
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May 13, 2023 18:34
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Mooseontheloose posted:Yah I think the thing to remember is when you are trying to point out this hypocrisy is that you aren't trying to convince Josh Hawley or his true belivers, there are other people who need to hear that there is problems with his thinking. Sure, I don’t think anyone would blink twice at a clear explanation of those problems. Wrapping the issue in a layer of petty sarcasm not only hurts people perhaps struggling with their own identity, but can actively push otherwise gettable people away. Not everyone ascribes to the “hate and fear” strategy DarkCrawler suggested.
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May 13, 2023 18:38
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DarkCrawler posted:Nobody is saying that you are winning the entire war with insults or rendering fascists into tearful useless piles by calling them out on their hypocrisy. It's simply part doing everything you can to engender hostility towards fascists in any context. Insults and shaming have made it harder to be a Republican in many places. Even if it is just some random corner of the internet (remember when this one used to have Republicans?) it is one place less. We're also not winning any wars, or "exploiting any weaknesses", by doing this here. I'd prefer to have a discussion based on reality rather than one based on hate and fear, framed by conservative understandings and language.
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May 13, 2023 18:41
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Not everyone ascribes to the “hate and fear” strategy DarkCrawler suggested. “So-called idealism therefore tends to confuse political and social issues more frequently than it clarifies them. For when tender moral sentiments express themselves within the limits of a social organisation, which violates the highest ethical principles, it adds to the moral confusion of peoples. The moral attitudes of dominant and privileged groups are characterised by universal self- deception and hypocrisy. “ Niebuhr’s got you pegged DD.
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May 13, 2023 18:41
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How many times do we gotta call Ben Shapiro short before people stop listening to him? Wait it doesn’t work it just makes use feel good. Say what you want but don’t pretend you’re posting the good fight lmao People get deplatrormed for being called out as Nazis sometimes. Not for lol fat manlet poo poo Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 18:54 on May 13, 2023 |
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May 13, 2023 18:51
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That’s me - a starry-eyed, bleeding heart liberal, lacking the self-awareness to recognize my own hypocrisy. It hurts to be pinned down like this, but I reluctantly accept this critique. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 13, 2023 18:52
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I thought we were all making fun of the (fake?) book cover because the dude looks like he just got asked how the food tastes and he's trying to decide if he has time to answer before the diarrhea hits.cr0y posted:FBI Raids Russian-Owned Condo in FL Trump Towers Wonder if / when we'll know more about this.
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May 13, 2023 19:08
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Zamujasa posted:Wonder if / when we'll know more about this. With Trump it could be literally anything including him not being involved in anyway whatsoever. The options are: -sanctions enforcement -something with the classified documents case -something with trump and money laundering -russia spying poo poo / crime ring poo poo -none of the above
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May 13, 2023 19:12
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TheDisreputableDog posted:That’s me - a starry-eyed, bleeding heart liberal, lacking the self-awareness to recognize my own hypocrisy. It hurts to be pinned down like this, but I reluctantly accept this critique. Nothing in there said liberal. “tender moral sentiments express themselves within the limits of a social organisation, which violates the highest ethical principles”. What you are doing defending Hawley, expressing those “tender moral sentiments”, about masculinity. That “adds to the moral confusion of peoples.” It adds sqiushyness and confusion to what should be extremely clear and not at all confusing: that Josh Hawley is a fascist.
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May 13, 2023 19:25
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Discendo Vox posted:We're also not winning any wars, or "exploiting any weaknesses", by doing this here. I'd prefer to have a discussion based on reality rather than one based on hate and fear, framed by conservative understandings and language. Everyone here is already a reliable leftist, so yeah. The hate and fear directed towards conservatives is entirely based on the reality of what they actually believe, say and do. Edgar Allen Ho posted:How many times do we gotta call Ben Shapiro short before people stop listening to him? I don't think Ben Shapiro himself has made any height-based arguments for or against so you're really picking on something nobody here has advocated for. TheDisreputableDog posted:Sure, I don’t think anyone would blink twice at a clear explanation of those problems. Wrapping the issue in a layer of petty sarcasm not only hurts people perhaps struggling with their own identity, but can actively push otherwise gettable people away. Not everyone ascribes to the “hate and fear” strategy DarkCrawler suggested. Those people can be radicalized to ascribe to that strategy by bombarding with them, as conservatives have successfully done to so many people. That's a major aspect of that strategy. The main one, even.
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May 13, 2023 19:50
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