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Baron von Eevl posted:CDs in Japan are incredibly expensive (were? I dunno what the physical media situation is there) so it was seen as a way to reward fans buying an album for the equivalent of like $40 and I think probably also to discourage people from having a friend in another country buy it and ship it to them illegally.
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May 14, 2023 12:36
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SUNKOS posted:Okay now explain Destination Unknown to me because it's actually bizarrely catchy but all I can picture is Billy sweating profusely and gurning from too much ecstasy while nakedly dancing around Sadlands as concerned neighbors contemplate making a noise complaint because it's 4am and he's had the song on repeat for several hours and just. won't. stop. but he bought a vintage Moog (with cash) and he finally feels cute. It's a Missing Persons cover
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May 14, 2023 12:50
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Noise Machine posted:It's a Missing Persons cover https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDly1Oc_P4 I honestly don't know which one I like more. The original is great, but I got TAFH at Christmas time, and their version has a big nostalgic pull that I can't ignore.
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May 14, 2023 14:08
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I fuckin love Pumpkins Covers. Never Let Me Down Again, Dancing in the Moonlight, You’re All I’ve Got Tonight, James Iha singing A Night Like This. I also didn’t realize Sad Peter Pan was a cover! With the guest singer goodness ugh Talking about B-sides though. Set the Ray to Jerry will always be my favorite song. THAT FUCKIN GROOOOOOVE. Autumn Nocturne always made me happy. Said Sadly. God I loved that band.
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May 14, 2023 14:37
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Oh yeah they're was that moment right after the Mellon collie sessions where he got really really into ring modulators.
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May 14, 2023 14:52
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Baron von Eevl posted:Oh yeah they're was that moment right after the Mellon collie sessions where he got really really into ring modulators. Adore has so many fuckin' ring modulators
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May 14, 2023 15:55
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SUNKOS posted:I wonder what version of Blue Skies Bring Tears they'll use too? I love both! Both? There's at least 4 different versions floating around out there! For my money the Machina I version is the worst of the lot, too.
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May 14, 2023 21:27
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I actually think a live medley version that started with the Machina 1 version and then at the end of the first chorus the whole band kicked in and picked up the tempo, that'd be pretty swell.
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May 14, 2023 23:36
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Saucer Crab posted:Both? There's at least 4 different versions floating around out there! For my money the Machina I version is the worst of the lot, too. I've only heard the one from Machina and the Machina II version which is much more basic but also more of a rock track (starts with the banging drums, then Billy's vocals start, then we get some bass...) which I like a lot but the original Machina version is something I'm really fond of for how layered and interesting it is (like everything on the record) that lets you kind of sink your teeth into it. I know some people hate the wall out sound style for that album but I love that there's just so much going on.
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May 15, 2023 00:59
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In the early 2000s I was messing around with some audio programs (there was some top flight audio editing software that had a bug with it's 30 day trial where you just got to keep it forever). I used it mostly to record live gigs off of the radio - it's how I've got mp3s of a Pumpkins gig at Sydney. What I'm getting at is I found Machina 1's wall of sound not enough. Not sure if it's just a bad rip but I felt like my copy of Age of Innocence was too quiet so I tried to increase the amplitude in that app and distorted the gently caress out of it!
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May 15, 2023 01:13
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Bought tickets to the NH gig. Haven't seen them since late 2008.
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May 15, 2023 01:32
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SUNKOS posted:I've only heard the one from Machina and the Machina II version which is much more basic but also more of a rock track (starts with the banging drums, then Billy's vocals start, then we get some bass...) which I like a lot but the original Machina version is something I'm really fond of for how layered and interesting it is (like everything on the record) that lets you kind of sink your teeth into it. They're all on Youtube, there's an officially released live version closest to the Machina version, the semi-official Arising! version that's pretty different, and then acoustic demos, give them a listen.
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May 15, 2023 04:25
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Saucer Crab posted:They're all on Youtube, there's an officially released live version closest to the Machina version, the semi-official Arising! version that's pretty different, and then acoustic demos, give them a listen. I listened to the Arising! version (with the video footage of some black & white movie) and while Billy's vocal performance is fantastic, I'm just really not very fond of that version at all. It does sound like with some more work it could have been a great track for Adore though, if that makes sense? That version of the song just seems to fit that album more, imo. The acoustic demo wasn't really that good imo, it sounded like he was rushing through the song? If it was slowed down and had some string accompaniment (cello, violin) I think it would be a really good version of the song and somewhat thematically appropriate as well. Favorite is still the album version (Machina I) but I am biased and consider that entire record to be a masterpiece with the Machina II version being a fun alternate rock take. MysticalMachineGun posted:What I'm getting at is I found Machina 1's wall of sound not enough. Not sure if it's just a bad rip but I felt like my copy of Age of Innocence was too quiet so I tried to increase the amplitude in that app and distorted the gently caress out of it! I've always been a little puzzled with the Machina II rip of White Spyder since the quality is so bad. It sounds like some really heavy rumbling bass is drowning most of the track out and that whoever recorded the rip did so by holding a cheap recorder to a speaker with a subwoofer right by it. It's odd though because Billy's vocals come through fairly fine? I like the lyrical callback to the hidden track at the end of Glass and the Ghost Children. Overly excited by the prospect of a properly mastered and mixed version of Saturnine with that whole wall of sound production accompanying that sludgy drone and Al Jourgensen-styled vocal effects as well. It's so heavy and simple but ripe for burying things in the mix and adding flourishes throughout. If they could incorporate that nightmarish synth sound Matt Walker focused on for his mix of the track it would be perfect. Love the outro too, gives the impression that it was meant for Machina I as the track before The Crying Tree of Mercury and given the hiss and how similar it sounds to the end of the hidden track in Glass and the Ghost Children, I'm fairly convinced that Saturnine was meant to go there on the tracklisting but was pulled for some reason, it fits between both songs perfectly.
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May 15, 2023 14:24
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I always put the quality of Machina II down to being distributed in the dial up days. Easy to imagine people passing it on, reuploading it in places and not knowing/caring about the mp3 quality.
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May 17, 2023 07:36
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MysticalMachineGun posted:I always put the quality of Machina II down to being distributed in the dial up days. Easy to imagine people passing it on, reuploading it in places and not knowing/caring about the mp3 quality. The biggest issues with Machina II is that it was all transferred from vinyl using pretty bad processes. Granted people were using what they had at the time and there wasn’t the analog to digital equipment we have today around either. Sadly until the reissue ever comes out I doubt we will see a better version happen. Those that have copies aren’t going to lend them to vinyl archivists to make a pristine copy at this point. There is also a question about the quality of them at this point since they are nearly 25 years old. I’d say there is a non-zero chance several of them have damage either from improper storage or use.
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May 17, 2023 14:40
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The Q101 rip on the internet archive is pretty good
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May 17, 2023 15:12
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Djarum posted:There is also a question about the quality of them at this point since they are nearly 25 years old. I’d say there is a non-zero chance several of them have damage either from improper storage or use. Don't worry! Billy could totally just recreate that magic in the studio with his current band and new fleshed out Pumpkins sound!
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May 17, 2023 15:21
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Noise Machine posted:The Q101 rip on the internet archive is pretty good It has issues as well. There was a page somewhere that went into the various rips that were done, how they were sourced and whatnot. The Q101 and the internal Virgin copies were both done quick and dirty. Originally people thought they would be the best ones considering a big radio station and a huge label would have the equipment and resources to make a quality copy but nope. There has been a lot of work to remaster the various rips over the years. Most of what you see on Archive has been hosed with to try and improve them.
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May 17, 2023 15:38
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Don't forget we have a non vinyl version of real love from rotten apples. I think white spyder sounds like that for the same reason that version of heavy metalmachine sounds like that; it's a creative choice to just have every track clipping the entire time.
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May 17, 2023 17:53
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I think it's noteworthy that Billy kept Cash Car Star off the Adore reissue (Matt Walker version aside) probably because that's so similar to, or maybe they intend to use parts of it for, the Machina II version. Also listened to Atum I and half of Atum II and it's not as bad as I was expecting. I mean I'm never going to listen to that poo poo ever again but I think Billy has learned some lessons about his vocals since they seem to be less obnoxious and more buried in the mix now? I also think having a female voice accompanying his own to compensate for how his has changed with age is a good idea, he just picked the wrong person and if he could find someone that compliments his vocals better it would actually work pretty well imo. I was also surprised by all the guitar solos and leads on the songs I heard, which I was not expecting at all. The playing/general style does not sound like Billy or James at all though, so I'm guessing all of that was probably Jeff? Dude can definitely play from what I've seen of his live performances (the band adding more and more solos to each performance of As Rome Burns and his wailing throughout an amazing performance of The Beginning is the End is the Beginning that I wish I could find again) so if I'm correct I think it's rad they let him have a voice on the album. Idk though maybe he's had a big presence on the last couple albums too, I haven't been keeping up since poo poo's been all over the place. Interested to check out part III since apparently that's the one where Jimmy actually gets to do something and is more prog-ish? I forget exactly but the descriptor I read somewhere sounded exciting to me so I'll definitely check it out. It's left me cautiously optimistic for their next "rock" record however since Billy seems to be burying his voice more now and has some accompaniment to make it less painful and Jeff is seemingly getting an opportunity to do his thing so if Billy can take a bit of a step back and let the band shine it could be good. ...it's going to end up being spoken word poetry about his encounter with a shapeshifter, isn't it?
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May 17, 2023 19:47
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"It's all spoken word poetry about your encounter with a shapeshifting reptilian?" "Always has been."
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May 17, 2023 20:47
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Billy Corgan posted:Have you ever heard the words
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May 17, 2023 21:05
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Hey why did they ruin Glynis with whatever this 2012 mix is? Is it just me or does it sound way off?
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May 18, 2023 00:11
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Two questions, not meant to be answered but just thought about. 1. What would SD/MCIS-era Billy think about Atum and the 3-4 albums before it? If time travel existed, would he hear them and hate them or find inspiration from them? 2. Would Atum sound better if Flood and Alan Moulder produced it? Butch Vig? Here's an actual question... Why the gently caress doesn't Billy work with any of those producers anymore?
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May 18, 2023 00:37
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I don’t buy that the machina 2 sound is due to being sourced from vinyl. I know when it came out vinyl was all but dead and nobody could get a physical copy anyway, so that rumor spread because there was no way to dispute it. but since then I’ve heard a ton of vinyl rips taken from completely low end consumer turntables and they sound FINE for the most part, especially so if you’re listening on speakers and not headphones. Machina 2 just sounds that way because that’s how it was recorded/mastered.Baron von Eevl posted:Don't forget we have a non vinyl version of real love from rotten apples. I think white spyder sounds like that for the same reason that version of heavy metalmachine sounds like that; it's a creative choice to just have every track clipping the entire time. Yep
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May 18, 2023 01:42
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Here's an actual question... Why the gently caress doesn't Billy work with any of those producers anymore? They cost money, big money. Billy isn’t getting crazy major label money anymore. They also aren’t selling the kind of numbers to make sense giving them points instead. According to Billy I am sure he would say something like “He doesn’t want to go back to the past” or some other bullshit. But money is the big reason. The costs of recording are a lot better if he is self producing, which I think is the only way they are still making records at this point.
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May 18, 2023 02:08
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Weirdly I love White Spyder for that sound. I couldn't handle every track on an album being like that, but the sheer oppressive and claustrophobic feeling it has loving nails it for me.
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May 18, 2023 02:23
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CherryCola posted:Hey why did they ruin Glynis with whatever this 2012 mix is? Is it just me or does it sound way off? The 2012 mix suuuuuuuucks. I just look it up on YouTube when I want to hear it, sadly.
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May 18, 2023 03:21
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MysticalMachineGun posted:The 2012 mix suuuuuuuucks. I just look it up on YouTube when I want to hear it, sadly. It’s almost shockingly badly mastered. What were they thinking?
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May 18, 2023 04:17
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Djarum posted:They cost money, big money. Billy isn’t getting crazy major label money anymore. They also aren’t selling the kind of numbers to make sense giving them points instead. That seems reasonable, but Butch has produced 4 albums in the last decade only one of which is likely to have sold more than a SP album. Flood has done a lot more, but I suspect ATUM will outsell them all. Maybe they're getting paid more than the Pumpkins could afford to do those albums anyway, but I can't make the economics work in my head.
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May 18, 2023 05:41
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BeastOfExmoor posted:That seems reasonable, but Butch has produced 4 albums in the last decade only one of which is likely to have sold more than a SP album. Flood has done a lot more, but I suspect ATUM will outsell them all. Maybe they're getting paid more than the Pumpkins could afford to do those albums anyway, but I can't make the economics work in my head. Butch and Flood can command big paydays. If you look at what Butch has produced; the Foo Fighters, two Garbage and Silversun Pickups records respectively you have three big label records and Silversun is putting out their own records now so they have no problem paying his fee. All of them are likely going to sell as much or more than the Pumpkins and have bigger recording budgets. Same with Flood, he is working on U2 records and stuff. They got the money to pay him and likely getting points on the backend as well. Billy has kind of alluded to in interviews in the last decade or so he had to start producing the records because they couldn’t get the money from the labels to afford to do what they wanted to anymore without doing it. I don’t think the new albums are selling well at all frankly. If you look how they are charting and considering albums in general sell way, way less than they did 20+ years ago they can’t be great. I am pretty sure they are making significantly more money touring than recording albums. I almost feel the new music is being used as an excuse to promote the tours at this point.
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May 18, 2023 05:56
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I can't help but suspect the last thing Billy Corgan would EVER do is pay someone to tell him "no".
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May 18, 2023 06:29
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Kingo Ligma posted:I can't help but suspect the last thing Billy Corgan would EVER do is pay someone to tell him "no". Guessing all producers have a "working with an rear end in a top hat" price hike included. Billy probably costed himself out of the market after Zwan
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May 18, 2023 07:30
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I am often surprised at how long jeff the shredder has stuck around
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May 18, 2023 12:52
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mystic pimp posted:I am often surprised at how long jeff the shredder has stuck around Longer than D'Arcy, and yet.... Aside from y'know.. Writing better music, they need a Viewphoria 2.
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May 18, 2023 13:20
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mystic pimp posted:I am often surprised at how long jeff the shredder has stuck around Yeah, I think Jeff knows where his bread is buttered and that Billy's happy to keep working with him. I remember around when James was first coming back there was some talk of Billy and Jeff doing their own thing, I think they just decided gently caress it let's have 3 guitars instead. I think Billy just really likes working with Jeff.
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May 18, 2023 13:27
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Baron von Eevl posted:Yeah, I think Jeff knows where his bread is buttered and that Billy's happy to keep working with him. I remember around when James was first coming back there was some talk of Billy and Jeff doing their own thing, I think they just decided gently caress it let's have 3 guitars instead. I think Billy just really likes working with Jeff. "Yes Billiam that's a great idea". "Wow how do you still write banger after banger after all these years?" "Whoah, Butch Vig DID steal your guitar sound for Nevermind". "You're right, Courtney should have married you instead". Seems like a fair price to pay for a Yamaha endorsement I guess.
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May 20, 2023 00:40
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I will say Jeff is just like us and has the encyclopedic superfan knowledge. Wouldn't you try to play with your favorite band as long as possible?
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May 20, 2023 00:45
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Jeff! Get Billy to acknowledge Alabaster! Edit: Pop quiz! Which rock band has: - many songs going from quiet to loud, back to quiet - songs touching on religion - a lead singer who is a white guy of Irish descent who's really good at screaming and is also bald - a female bassist who is no longer with the band - a lead guitarist who is from foreign parents, and is a first-generation American? - a drummer who is a beast of a guy - one song that's extremely well-known, but not nearly as good as the rest - is still going The answer may surprise you, as I'm not necessarily talking about the Pumpkins. 
Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 13:52 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 02:08
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Well it can't be the Pixies. They have at least two female bassists who aren't with the band.
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May 20, 2023 14:21
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