(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Judge Schnoopy posted:How effective would Russia be in the face of an actual NATO combined arms force that incorporated high altitude reconnaissance / bombers, long range missiles from modern air fighters, and a naval carrier group off the coast? Googling this at 3am and clicking links until I'm reading the Patlabor: Mobile Police wiki as the sun peeks through my blinds and the birds start singing.
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May 15, 2023 13:28
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Judge Schnoopy posted:
Literally the only reason there wouldn't be American tanks parked in Moscow within a year would be because there's enough of a nuclear deterrent to ensure NATO would keep to the 90's border.
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May 15, 2023 13:33
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Hey I'm willing to accept that my post is dumb as gently caress, but I'm not sure why. Have I huffed too much US propaganda and what we see in Ukraine is actually representative of modern warfare? Enlighten me on how stupid I am for believing a carrier group in the black sea would immediately turn things around and start a full on panic retreat.
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May 15, 2023 13:37
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I know Ukraine has a handful of planes, Russia might have a bunch of them (or maybe not so much anymore?), and there's air defense everywhere. The war, then, is mostly a ground-based engagement with artillery backing up the lines. Also lol lmao if Russia finally takes Bakhmut only to get immediately flanked on two sides.
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May 15, 2023 13:41
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Notice how every time Uncle Sam rummages a bit in the ol' charity toy box and dusts off something that has been left outmoded it immediately has the russians reeling and trying to come up with counters Now imagine if they decided to go in with any actual force. Now imagine that they bothered to call up any other NATO country in the process. Like the only thing that could even slightly hinder the rear end whooping would be a concern for civilians in proximity of russian units.
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May 15, 2023 13:42
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Enlighten me on how stupid I am for believing a carrier group in the black sea would immediately turn things around and start a full on panic retreat.
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May 15, 2023 13:45
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Hey I'm willing to accept that my post is dumb as gently caress, but I'm not sure why. Have I huffed too much US propaganda and what we see in Ukraine is actually representative of modern warfare? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg Except russia's remaining crap is from that era while the US has F-22s and F-35s and god knows what else now. If there ever was a situation that needed another Desert Storm, this is it, but everyone is too scared of nooooks.
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May 15, 2023 13:48
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Judge Schnoopy posted:I know Ukraine has a handful of planes, Russia might have a bunch of them (or maybe not so much anymore?), and there's air defense everywhere. The war, then, is mostly a ground-based engagement with artillery backing up the lines. Nuclear weapons would be the only thing preserving them, as mentioned above. Russia is getting stomped by Ukraine using only a small fraction of (mostly older) NATO equipment. This notably doesn't (yet) include any naval or air assets, which is a field where NATO has always been massively superior. If the full power of the alliance was ever brought to bear against Russia in a conventional conflict, there would not be a Russian army for long. To put it another way: Russia has lost a significant fraction of it's warfighting potential in the last year and a half in Ukraine. Russia in 2022 was a rotten husk of the Russia of 1990, eroded by 30 years of grift, corruption, and neglect. Russia in 1990 was only one constituent republic of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was never as strong as the west feared during the cold war - their technology was not as advanced or numerous as intelligence reports indicated. But... We based our military strategy on fighting the Soviet Union that was depicted in the intelligence reports. To that end we spent an ungodly amount of treasure on our defense capability. That capability was never needed to the extent that we thought, and it was frequently delivered over budget and behind schedule. But it was delivered. There may have been a reduction in that capability in the non-US part of NATO since the end of the cold war, but a lot of the best stuff is still there, and that capability is absolute overkill for the ambulant corpse of the Russian state, circa 2023.
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May 15, 2023 13:53
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Hey I'm willing to accept that my post is dumb as gently caress, but I'm not sure why. Have I huffed too much US propaganda and what we see in Ukraine is actually representative of modern warfare? I don't think you're stupid, I was just goofing off. While said carrier group would probably "win", the nuclear deterrent stops this being viable, let alone spillover into NATO nations.
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May 15, 2023 13:55
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Sashimi posted:Also lol lmao if Russia finally takes Bakhmut only to get immediately flanked on two sides. quote:After three months of slow advance, the Germans finally reached the river banks, capturing 90% of the ruined city and splitting the remaining Soviet forces into two narrow pockets. Ice floes on the Volga now prevented boats and tugs from supplying the Soviet defenders. Nevertheless, the fighting continued, especially on the slopes of Mamayev Kurgan and inside the factory area in the northern part of the city. From 21 August to 20 November, the German 6th Army lost 60,548 men, including 12,782 killed, 45,545 wounded and 2,221 missing.
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May 15, 2023 14:02
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Hey I'm willing to accept that my post is dumb as gently caress, but I'm not sure why. Have I huffed too much US propaganda and what we see in Ukraine is actually representative of modern warfare? What you're seeing is modern warfare minus air superiority. Modern combined arms puts a lot of emphasis on air power for very good reasons. This whole thing has devolved into long static fronts partly due to the lack of air power. (Also because the Russians are very dumb.) Disco Pope posted:While said carrier group would probably "win", the nuclear deterrent stops this being viable, let alone spillover into NATO nations. Also, putting a US carrier in the black sea and making it a legit target is itself a bad idea. The russians could probably sink it if they tried hard enough. Those cost more than all the aid we've given Ukraine in total. Cheap weapons win wars, don't put the expensive toys at risk.
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May 15, 2023 14:08
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Ah I thought the carrier group, including the ships surrounding it with Patriot systems on all sides and shitloads of long range missiles to destroy attack platforms, would be enough to keep the thing safe against however many hypersonic missiles Russia has left. I totally get the "it's not worth risking the carrier for something so easily winnable" and "NOOOOKS" arguments. Just wanted to know if I was missing something in believing a modern air force and navy would roll this stupid conflict up in weeks if it became necessary.
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May 15, 2023 14:26
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Ah I thought the carrier group, including the ships surrounding it with Patriot systems on all sides and shitloads of long range missiles to destroy attack platforms, would be enough to keep the thing safe against however many hypersonic missiles Russia has left. It's less a handful of hypersonic missiles and more nobody wants to test if Russia can still pull off the whole "Saturation strike of dozens of sea skimming anti ship missiles launched from a wave of Backfires" late Cold War worst case scenario when it's totally unnecessary. It's probably not something Russia could do repeatedly now but if they *really* wanted to put it all on "Sink one carrier" it's not something anyone wants to roll the dice on
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May 15, 2023 14:52
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PIZZA.BAT posted:a few years ago i joked with some friends about a big dog meme where it growls, 'listen here millenial, pinups ARE hentai' 
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May 15, 2023 15:06
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Hahahah
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May 15, 2023 15:13
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Ah I thought the carrier group, including the ships surrounding it with Patriot systems on all sides and shitloads of long range missiles to destroy attack platforms, would be enough to keep the thing safe against however many hypersonic missiles Russia has left. Carrier groups are just airbases on water and we have plenty of those on land in the same range. But from what we’ve seen, yes american air support would devastate russia and probably culminate in a bunch of clapped out icbms being launched.
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May 15, 2023 15:17
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So with the report out that Wagner was willing to give away Russian troop positions to Ukraine if the Ukrainian forces would leave Wagner alone, how long until Yevgeny Prigozhin is the recipient of defenestration from a tall building?
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May 15, 2023 15:23
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Lol
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May 15, 2023 15:25
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In the event of a full on Air War I'd assume the Russians would have no answer for actual strike packages. I.e. Full bore attacks with dozens of planes with dedicated Jamming, Wild Weasel, Air to Air components etc made by people who actually trained and practised how to do this and had the equipment to pull it off. NATO would rapidly suppress or destroy what ground based big SAM's and Fighers they have left and then would be able to operate with pretty much impunity above MANPAD ceilings. After which the only thing stopping Russian forces being systematically atomised would be running out of weapons or Russia getting desperate enough to unleash the canned sunshine.
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May 15, 2023 15:28
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Deptfordx posted:In the event of a full on Air War I'd assume the Russians would have no answer for actual strike packages. I.e. Full bore attacks with dozens of planes with dedicated Jamming, Wild Weasel, Air to Air components etc made by people who actually trained and practised how to do this and had the equipment to pull it off. I think your forgetting the elite VDV will be air dropping into Berlin unsupported to force a ceasefire.
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May 15, 2023 15:39
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Is the writer’s guild strike affecting WWE in any way?
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May 15, 2023 15:44
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Pretty sure the only Union in WwE is the Jack on British bulldog’s pants
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May 15, 2023 15:49
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If at this point you entertain the belief russia would do any better than iraq I have some armatas to sell you
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May 15, 2023 15:51
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I think your forgetting the elite VDV will be air dropping into Berlin unsupported to force a ceasefire. You lack Imagination Comrade: Washington DC  Lmao that this war completely derailed because Russia sent its Big Special Boys in without air support last year directly into Kyiv Lmao TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 15:56 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 15:54
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Mikojan posted:If at this point you entertain the belief russia would do any better than iraq I have some armatas to sell you I actually think India, Iran, definitely China, etc. Would fair so much better than Russia in conventional war atm Finland would probably rock them, any NATO country would. They seem like they are stuck in 85-2000 technologically, it's bizzare TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 16:02 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 15:55
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I am certain that every single Russian fighter who died or got horrifically maimed at Bakhmut will be remembered and treated with the respect they deserve for participating in The Most Significant Victory In The History Of Warfare forever blaring on all public radios in Moscow and/or St. Petersburg.
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May 15, 2023 15:56
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I increasingly feel like the desperation to take Bakhmut is so they can claim they did something for wasting a loving year, and then "tactically withdrawing" all the way to Belgorod, while claiming they are the Victor. They need something at least mildly tangible for the propaganda back home. The most fought over Rubble Pile TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 15:58
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I'd buy one
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May 15, 2023 16:04
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TulliusCicero posted:You lack Imagination Comrade: Washington DC It still seems like an entirely fictional parody of Russian thinking, the subject of a satirical Russian novel, that they sent in Rosgvardia as advance for crowd control, equipped with mess dress for parades and parties, who enthusiastically arrived ahead of everyone. It's sublimely ridiculous and I still have trouble believing it really happened.
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May 15, 2023 16:05
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TulliusCicero posted:I increasingly feel like the desperation to take Bakhmut is so they can claim they did something for wasting a loving year, and then "tactically withdrawing" all the way to Belgorod, while claiming they are the Victor. Don't forget the "while scattering landmines, and glowing rocks they stole from zaporizhzhia NPP along every inch of land on their way out" part of the withdrawal, they gotta make sure the world knows how not pissy they are about it.
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May 15, 2023 16:06
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the popes toes posted:It still seems like an entirely fictional parody of Russian thinking, the subject of a satirical Russian novel, that they sent in Rosgvardia as advance for crowd control, equipped with mess dress for parades and parties, who enthusiastically arrived ahead of everyone. It's sublimely ridiculous and I still have trouble believing it really happened. I think it was Vladimir where the entire city’s OMON became casualties with in like a month or two of the invasion
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May 15, 2023 16:15
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Ah I thought the carrier group, including the ships surrounding it with Patriot systems on all sides and shitloads of long range missiles to destroy attack platforms, would be enough to keep the thing safe against however many hypersonic missiles Russia has left. Also very vulnerable to submarines although the Black Sea is pretty shallow which would give subs a lot of problems. My money would be on the carrier group but the risk wouldn’t be worth the reward.
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May 15, 2023 16:38
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TulliusCicero posted:I actually think India, Iran, definitely China, etc. Would fair so much better than Russia in conventional war atm It's not the equipment that is the problem. It might not be an Abrams or a Chally2 but t-80's, Grads and cruise missiles are fine for the invasion. It's the utter trash that the training is. From private all the way to general. They don't evolve or learn ever. It is frightening how very very very very bad the russian army is. I'm still in contact with a lot my former military buddies and everyone is incredulous to how bad they are that all you can do is laugh at their performance. Stick a clown mask on everyone and call it a circus.
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May 15, 2023 16:41
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Mikojan posted:If at this point you entertain the belief russia would do any better than iraq I have some armatas to sell you You just covered the T-55s in tinsel again, didn't you?  
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May 15, 2023 16:44
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I think it was Vladimir where the entire city’s OMON became casualties with in like a month or two of the invasion It was in the first couple of days, because some bright spark sent their small-arms equipped only convoy on down the road to Kyiv in front of all the actual combat units instead of after them
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May 15, 2023 16:48
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I think it was Vladimir where the entire city’s OMON became casualties with in like a month or two of the invasion Kermovo? I remember this article from last year about a police unit that was deployed to Belarus for "training" and ended up on the front line during the initial invasion. https://thedebrief.org/know-no-mercy-the-russian-cops-who-tried-to-storm-kyiv-by-themselves/ (Content warning: Linked article contains descriptions of combat, pictures of destroyed vehicles, pictures of solders with leg injures sitting in a hospital, and a picture of a jacket with blood on it) Russia seemed totally unprepared and disorganized.
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May 15, 2023 16:53
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Inevitable, predicted and not surprising but I would imagine Russian Foreign Ministry types are now openly drinking at their desk with the bottle on top of their shrinking portfolio "to do" files. https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1658065393825488896
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May 15, 2023 17:05
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Judge Schnoopy posted:Hey I'm willing to accept that my post is dumb as gently caress, but I'm not sure why. Have I huffed too much US propaganda and what we see in Ukraine is actually representative of modern warfare? People genuinely don't understand how powerful the US military really is after it's reformations in the 80's. There have been a lot of military stomps throughout history but it always came with heavy losses on both sides. The 1990 Gulf War was two of the largest militaries in the world fighting one another. Even Germany's incredibly successful blitzkrieg of France resulted in 40,000 casualties on their side. The United States lost 292 people. Literally half of that was friendly fire incidents. There just hasn't been a lopsided victory on that level when two large militaries fought, ever. Fighting the United States is less about winning on the battlefield and more about creating a successful insurgency that outlasts the occupation. Edit: Why this relates to Russia is because the US has been overestimating it badly. US military planners default position in wargames against Russia is "We believe we'll win but we have to be on the top of our game to prevent a massacre on our side." and now it's clear that no they would lose very badly. And that's a bad thing because now all they have are nukes to get their way. Nelson Mandingo fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 17:15
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https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1658111292928917505?s=20 Looking great
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May 15, 2023 17:21
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Animatronic-rear end dictator.
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May 15, 2023 17:30
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