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Sundae posted:Can we keep our hatred focused on C-Suites and maybe not fellow goons who not also just being poo poo on by their bosses, but who have to deal with the UCMJ instead of just getting fired? And Zaurg. Always focus hatred on Zaurg. Has he been active recently? I miss his insane threads.
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May 15, 2023 05:28
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 but it's corpos and uh, not-corpos? I don't even know what that was about anymore.
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May 15, 2023 06:10
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Sundae posted:Can we keep our hatred focused on C-Suites and maybe not fellow goons who not also just being poo poo on by their bosses, but who have to deal with the UCMJ instead of just getting fired? And Zaurg. Always focus hatred on Zaurg.
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May 15, 2023 06:10
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Weird humour barely masking outright hostility, coming into a thread swinging wildly.. Definitely executive material.
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May 15, 2023 06:29
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Doesn't even attempt to understand the culture of the place before throwing insults around and calling for changes, he must be the thread's new manager.
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May 15, 2023 06:40
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So, like what? He was contemptuous of civilians as a servicemen and hence his odd behaviour? But given the mass media portrayal of how veterans struggle in the civilian world, why was he so convinced he would do well? If he was like you aren't in the real world unless you can kill, then that is consistent with his skills and potential worldview. But he seemed to think he will do very well in the civilian world when it is often seen otherwise. I just feel bewildered, like wtf
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May 15, 2023 06:48
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Servicemen spend years painfully grinding up through the ranks and learning military skills, which mean Everything in their service and Nothing in the outside world. Lots of people have difficulty with this aspect of the transition to civilian life: the automatic respect and reassurance of rank and status is gone, and civilians just don't relate to each other in the same way. Yes I'm saying he should start an E/N thread.
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May 15, 2023 08:34
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I remember a guy I know who was a Major in the infantry and went into finance saying he found it difficult to adjust to his admin assistant not bracing up when he came into the room. Just fully broken ego.
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May 15, 2023 08:38
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knox_harrington posted:I remember a guy I know who was a Major in the infantry and went into finance saying he found it difficult to adjust to his admin assistant not bracing up when he came into the room. Just fully broken ego. Should have worked retail branch banking. A number of my back office colleagues have the same story as I do where the management in the branches was verbally and sometimes physically abusive, and then for the first six months in the back office we were waiting for the other foot to fall. When we realized we really were going to be treated with respect and professionalism even when we screwed up, it was like a revelation.
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May 15, 2023 09:16
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I thought I had an (ex) colleague that was in the marines and was a good guy and now works for a hedge fund (I think) but I said something about this recently and got corrected to it being a different guy entirely that was in the marines and who's an rear end in a top hat. Speaking of assholes, HR are still making me do the multiple rounds of mandatory training we have even though I'm leaving in 6 weeks.
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May 15, 2023 10:56
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I know we’re not supposed to post about posters but can we please just ban John Smith’s rereg? the non-current Marine kramering in here was at least fun and novel.
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May 15, 2023 11:37
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Fourier Series posted:I wasn't mocking him. I don't work much with veterans, although I respect that they served their country. But he seemed so off, whereas in my impression, the military has a rigorous assessment system to prevent liabilities in the battlefield. If he was having an episode, then I can understand. But I just don't understand what happened. what happened is the autistic veteran's veteran brain and autistic brain combined to produce an embarrassing series of posts. what's your excuse for your series of dumb posts though? because HOLY poo poo did you miss the mark Fourier Series posted:So, like what? He was contemptuous of civilians as a servicemen and hence his odd behaviour? But given the mass media portrayal of how veterans struggle in the civilian world, why was he so convinced he would do well? you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lylcHY6tXXQ&t=95s knox_harrington posted:Servicemen spend years painfully grinding up through the ranks and learning military skills, which mean Everything in their service and Nothing in the outside world. Lots of people have difficulty with this aspect of the transition to civilian life: the automatic respect and reassurance of rank and status is gone, and civilians just don't relate to each other in the same way. also whoever you are when i was in and getting out, the higher ups tried to act like someone like me couldn't make it in the world. I've been out 12 years, found out i was autistic maybe 8 years after discharge. believe it or not, as long as I don't flip the gently caress out on an internet forum or send out a hosed up email that I didn't sleep on, I'm fine. except when i read  rear end poo poo like fourier and knox's dumb poo poo cause holy poo poo you brought me back to my Captain's Mast. The part where my CO was questioning me quite pointedly on what the gently caress I think I was going to do WITHOUT HIM OR THE NAVAL SERVICE? on some YOU AREN'T GONNA MAKE IT OUT THERE HOSPITALMAN, YOU BETTER SHAPE THE gently caress UP.He didn't like it when I told him I love the military not the Navy. That's why he hosed me on my discharge. but compared to that poo poo, I'm surprised your autonomic nervous systems even work as nature intended. Because rn I question how you are able to breathe when the rest of youse is so loving dumb. Riddle me that poo poo. Thank you. E: holy poo poo how did I miss this one Fourier Series posted:Was that military fellow real? I thought the military has assessments of its potential recruits and checks them over for health. How did he get a honourable discharge if he is so troubled?  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) TheWeedNumber fucked around with this message at 12:21 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 11:48
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priznat posted:Weird humour barely masking outright hostility, coming into a thread swinging wildly.. Definitely executive material. yeah that was uncalled for. sorry again about yesterday.
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May 15, 2023 12:04
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Fourier Series posted:I wasn't mocking him. I don't work much with veterans, although I respect that they served their country. But he seemed so off, whereas in my impression, the military has a rigorous assessment system to prevent liabilities in the battlefield. If he was having an episode, then I can understand. But I just don't understand what happened. maybe this one will help you understand how such a thing happens  Or these series of posts. bird food bathtub posted:Man MEPS was a wild ride. People were told in absolutely no uncertain terms "You will be piss tested on exactly this date. Don't gently caress it up" and I end up in line next to the guy with a gallon of water in hand that is intensely nervous about the process. The whole time I'm thinking "My dude, you knew this was going to happen just put down the blunt for it or maybe this whole military thing isn't for you?" Steezo posted:Wait, he didn't touch the inside of your butthole? Did anyone else get uhh... inspected? LtCol J. Krusinski posted:You have hemorrhoids or fissures? Maybe particularly gnarly anal region acne? Maybe butt herpes? Did you take a poo poo and not shower prior to spreading your bussy for Uncle Sam’s least literate doctors? Like, are you really hairy back there and just got a big old messy loving hair, lint, and poo poo DQ Blizzard back there? Was this prior to 2011 when having some really confused, tired and lost sperm leaking out of your anus at MEPS was a technical violation of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell because Dr. Last In His Class At Peshawar Community College of Animal Husbandry, Witch hunting, and Medicine didn’t ask if you had someone take a ride on your Hershey highway and leave behind all kinds of nougat, but you clearly were telling him you did because just like the “Oops all boo berries” edition your spread bussy inspection was an “Ooops, yeah definitely had a man ejaculate inside me, praise allah as peace be unto him as baby batter be unto my colon and now this lovely government linoleum floor”? While this doesn't apply to me, military recruiting is some seriously exploitative poo poo. They literally recruit the folks with no options 90% of the time and g them into joining up. I still remember when I was out-processing and hearing another sailor talk to me about some poo poo that happened on the Sub. Apparently, the submarine community is rough and tumble with it. They fight each other there, there's a bit of wall-to-wall counseling from superior to inferior ranked individuals. Light hazing. It's a thing. whole rear end loving thing Then he went into a monologue of "where else can you get three hots and a cot, healthcare, (...)." At this point, dude is rattling off all the things the Navy is good for compared to his past life and I realized what a dramatically hosed up individual I had standing before me. Like broken before he enlisted type poo poo. There's another goon who has guilt from their duty as a recruiter as he knows all too well how many kids he recruited died in our wars. And I'm sure in his time he told them what all the recruiters told recruits, prior to some new computerized system called Genesis loving up this part of it. "NO means New Opportunities. YES means your enlistment stops." They don't give a gently caress as long as you obey orders and aren't obviously broken. Its not some rigorous loving screening process that is holistic and determines if you are truly fit and able to serve. It's: do you have a pulse, are you obviously hosed up, and did you check yes on the boxes/does the computer say you checked yes on the boxes and you require a waiver; which must be gained through an archaic process that involves going into a dungeon in Mordor to retrieve? That is it. Hope this helps educate you and correct for whatever hilarious thoughts about the military existed previously.
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May 15, 2023 12:13
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goddamn, this thread is being closed while I catch up on all the bad posts and until baddog wakes up in his timezone. I may do some quick button pressing but by all means do not interpret that as the end of the button pressing everyone, end this slapfighting/derail. stop posting about posters and take other offtopic stuff to whatever thread it's actually on-topic for where people want to read it. if anyone has comments about particular posts in this derail, use the report button. our corporates need their business poo poo to read about during the work week.
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May 15, 2023 12:24
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Thread is open again.
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May 15, 2023 15:29
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lmao
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May 15, 2023 15:32
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When I was told that there was a hostile takeover of the corporate thread, this is absolutely not what I expected.
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May 15, 2023 16:10
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"downtime for a few hours on Monday so the bosses can catch up on problems highlighted for them but not addressed by them heading into the weekend" is nothing new
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May 15, 2023 16:24
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Unrelated but don't you hate it when you come in Monday and see the weekend team just couldn't help but loving up? Actually different topic: I am putting someone in for a promotion that I had on a PIP a while back. That's good poo poo.
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May 15, 2023 16:44
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Lockback posted:
The system works! I don't know what that other guy was going on about.
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May 15, 2023 16:57
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Jenkl posted:The system works! I don't know what that other guy was going on about. The system works they way I assume whoever you are talking about said also. It depends on what the company uses the process for. Most companies use PIPs as a way to manage people out. Some do not, as in this example.
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May 15, 2023 17:00
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In my career when I've put a person on a PIP, their termination at the end of the PIP period is the expected result, and my thirdmost preferred result. The less likely but more preferred result is that they find another job and resign before the end of the PIP period--encouraging this to happen is really the entire purpose of a PIP, for most companies. But the result I'd be most happy to see is that the employee actually snaps back to reality and puts in the work to seriously improve and become valuable. I've never personally seen it happen with any of my PIP'd employees. But occasionally it does, as in Lockback's case. As always, you can almost always tell from the wording of the PIP itself whether the company genuinely wants to see the employee improve, or if it is merely a written Notice of Intent to Terminate. If it's the former, the objectives will be specific and measurable. If the latter, they'll be vague and subjective. I'm willing to bet heavily that the PIP Lockback gave the employee in question included specific and measurable objectives. But the risk of that, and the worst result you can get, is that the employee improves during the PIP period, meets the objective goals, then as soon as it's signed off as Passed, reverts immediately to the previous poor performance. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 17:06
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Exactly. And most PIPs I've handed out have been basically "Here's your notice we're going to fire you" with maybe some glimmer of hope if they 180 themselves they can stay. This one was very much a "I think this person legitimately and unmaliciously just does not get it and our normal tools are not getting through." I'm very happy with how things worked though. For almost every other situation, if you get a PIP you almost certainly should start looking to bail.
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May 15, 2023 17:12
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Is there a version of a PIP for if the person's performance is fine but they are just a real jerk and have interpersonal problems? I thankfully have had very few examples of this but just wondering what the manager's go to for this situation would be.
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May 15, 2023 17:15
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I have recently put someone on a PIP. They're working hard to improve but I think it's probably a coin flip as to whether they improve and sustain or whether they improve and then immediately backslide. A bunch of it is behavior and that's really difficult stuff to change.
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May 15, 2023 17:16
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priznat posted:Is there a version of a PIP for if the person's performance is fine but they are just a real jerk and have interpersonal problems? I thankfully have had very few examples of this but just wondering what the manager's go to for this situation would be. No you just put them on a PIP with vague objectives like "demonstrate consistent professionalism in interpersonal relations" and "demonstrate respect for co-workers" and wait for them to resign or for the PIP period to end so you can fire them. The single biggest mistake I ever made in my managerial career was letting a star performer with a toxic attitude stick around far too long. It wrecked my team and honestly I should have been fired for it long before I left on my own. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:20 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 17:18
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I have recently put someone on a PIP. They're working hard to improve but I think it's probably a coin flip as to whether they improve and sustain or whether they improve and then immediately backslide. A bunch of it is behavior and that's really difficult stuff to change. I always add something like "Continuation of Employment will be contingent on keeping to these levels" or the like. HR is usually ok with that. It means if you get the immediate backslide you can speed up the process. priznat posted:Is there a version of a PIP for if the person's performance is fine but they are just a real jerk and have interpersonal problems? I thankfully have had very few examples of this but just wondering what the manager's go to for this situation would be. Mostly what Eric has said. I've pulled a couple people back from the brink to at least "generally tolerable levels of assholishness" through coaching. If that isn't getting you anywhere then yeah, you should look to cut them loose. I've actually found those people tend to jump ship if you give them the "Because of your current interpersonal skills, I think you've hit a ceiling" talk which is usually faster than a PIP. Mileage Varies.
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May 15, 2023 17:25
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trying desperately to get my person to understand that "shut the gently caress up" is a very valid strategy when dealing with peers outside of pure work environments as well. like you don't have to share an opinion and you don't have to share your real opinion either! good shout Lockback, if they make it through I will be sure to note that in the close out.
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May 15, 2023 17:33
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Eric the Mauve posted:In my career when I've put a person on a PIP, their termination at the end of the PIP period is the expected result, and my thirdmost preferred result. To prevent the slideback like that, don't most PIPs include both a probationary style period after where even if you resolve the PIP tasks, and it's on your employment record there basically indefinitely, so if things become a problem again, then that will be taken into account? I haven't heard of anyone getting hit by a PIP style thing twice, so I don't know how often it actually comes up in practice. I'm pretty sure even if you manage to dig out of a PIP you want to find another job asap. It can't help performance reviews and any form of stack ranking that companies do.
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May 15, 2023 17:40
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Chainclaw posted:To prevent the slideback like that, don't most PIPs include both a probationary style period after where even if you resolve the PIP tasks, and it's on your employment record there basically indefinitely, so if things become a problem again, then that will be taken into account? This happens at my organisation. Occasionally people meet the KPIs set for them in their PIP, then a few months later they're back to their old tricks. They'll get put on a second PIP that serves as an official warning that their employment is at risk of being terminated. This PIP has two parts, if they improved in the first part but don't sustain it in the second they're let go. That being said, it's government so people get given a LOT of rope to hang themselves with before performanc/behaviour related termination.
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May 15, 2023 23:02
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bee posted:This happens at my organisation. Occasionally people meet the KPIs set for them in their PIP, then a few months later they're back to their old tricks. They'll get put on a second PIP that serves as an official warning that their employment is at risk of being terminated. This PIP has two parts, if they improved in the first part but don't sustain it in the second they're let go. That being said, it's government so people get given a LOT of rope to hang themselves with before performanc/behaviour related termination. About the only way you get instafired in fedgov is timesheet fuckery. You can do procurement fraud, you can do travel fraud, you can walk around the office wearing nothing below your waist, any of those and you can hang on for literal years but report working 80 hours when you were only there 78.5 and you'll be ushered out the door so quickly your hair catches fire from the air friction.
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May 16, 2023 02:23
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Midjack posted:...you can walk around the office wearing nothing below your waist, any of those and you can hang on for literal years Not so long ago a guy here got shown the door for turning up to an online team meeting sans shirt. No word on whether he had anything on below the waist, but apparently half naked zooms are enough to be construed as Serious Misconduct and get you fired.
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May 16, 2023 05:33
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This week is gonna suck. Three COVID cases, an adult-RSV, and one person already out on vacation out of a ten-person department. I'm not going to see the sun this week, I expect.  I get to cover six people's meetings (including mine).
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May 16, 2023 05:35
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Sundae posted:This week is gonna suck. Three COVID cases, an adult-RSV, and one person already out on vacation out of a ten-person department. I'm not going to see the sun this week, I expect. Not with that sore throat you’re not.
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May 16, 2023 07:59
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bee posted:Not so long ago a guy here got shown the door for turning up to an online team meeting sans shirt. No word on whether he had anything on below the waist, but apparently half naked zooms are enough to be construed as Serious Misconduct and get you fired. This is not at all the same but we have a clinical team bbq down by the lake scheduled in June. It still weirds me out a bit going from regular meetings with colleagues to swimwear and beers a few minutes later. I guess I am not yet fully Europeanised.
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May 16, 2023 09:24
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corporate pain point. MS Teams. On big meetings (75+ people) that have people coming and going there is constant spam in chat of so-and-so “was invited to the meeting” or so-and-so “left the chat”. how the hell do you suppress those part/join (invited/left) messages??? irc clients had this figured out 25 years ago. there isn’t a way or is my install just garbage?
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May 16, 2023 16:08
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I don't know where the line is, but at a certain point it stops being appropriate to set it up as a meeting, and starts needing to be an event. Teams seems to not have much customization of notifications. If you find a way please share.
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May 16, 2023 16:34
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Depends on your OS but go to meeting options once your in a meeting. There is an option called "Announce when callers join or leave"
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May 16, 2023 16:55
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looks like that is admin/organizer only? i don’t have that menu for a meeting i’m in right now as a participant. or our teams setup is just rear end backwards which is a legit possibility
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May 16, 2023 17:24
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