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Gort posted:Did this get discussed in here yet? I don't believe this means anything beyond them learning from their leak of the 2017 manifesto that boosted Labour in the polls and are hoping to string along the people who may be getting cold feet after they came out calling themselves the true Conservatives. Starmer's Labour has abandoned every pledge it's made so far. I see no reason why they'd stick to these.
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May 15, 2023 15:30
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Scientastic posted:Have you actually read the article? He speaks to an NHS consultant, who runs through the diagnostic criteria and tells him he doesn’t have ADHD. The point is that you can easily game the private system to get hold of drugs based on a system that has an obvious incentive to diagnose people who have paid the fee for that diagnosis and want a prescription. I may be wrong and the documentary may conclude that there needs to be massive investment in NHS adult mental and neurological health services, but given all of the responses to it by actual people with ADHD I'm pretty sure that it's going to be poo poo and make people's lives worse. https://twitter.com/DrMBotha/status/1656962554277646338 https://twitter.com/Katamabob/status/1657732250287366144 https://twitter.com/ZJAyres/status/1657298169393184768
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May 15, 2023 16:04
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Sounds like the kind of rhetoric they love to push about trans treatment- oh it's so easy to do, kids are getting bottom surgery in 5 days if they tell their teachers yadda yadda yadda
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May 15, 2023 16:10
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What if you just really want legal speed
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May 15, 2023 16:12
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For Ł800 + follow up appointments it'd be cheaper and easier to do a Breaking Bad or go on the dark webs and hope they don't send you a bag of smarties.
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May 15, 2023 16:16
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Guavanaut posted:I may be wrong and the documentary may conclude that there needs to be massive investment in NHS adult mental and neurological health services, but given all of the responses to it by actual people with ADHD I'm pretty sure that it's going to be poo poo and make people's lives worse. It's a fair point, I have a very strong dislike for private healthcare and think that there should be huge investment in the NHS, and I assume that everyone shares that view, so I probably just came to my own conclusion that that was the point when I read it. Edit: I reread the article, I still think it's more pointing out that it's problematic for private companies who are essentially incentivised by customer satisfaction rather than patient outcomes to be given prescription powers. The issue is not prescribing drugs to people who are gaming the system, it's prescribing drugs to people who may genuinely believe they have an illness that will be helped by a drug, who are then not helped, but also exposed to unnecessary side-effects and risk because of a lazy misdiagnosis. I have relatives who earnestly believe that they have a wide variety of mental health disorders, and not a one of them has ever been formalyl diagnosed. If they believed a bit more strongly, I can easily see them getting this sort of service and end up taking mood-altering medications for no clinical reason. The fact that it was very easy for this guy (who in fact does have some of the symptoms of ADHD, but further investigation pins down that they have another cause) to get medication that he didn't need is pretty shocking. Scientastic fucked around with this message at 16:26 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 16:18
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In reality however the only alternative would be "ok nobody gets access to the drugs" because this country is fundamentally incapable of improving people's lives.
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May 15, 2023 16:34
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Sounds like they’re all having a blast at this “Conservative Facism” bash https://twitter.com/dominicpenna/status/1658123295470829574?s=46&t=m_nNbkNoHG4lLitcpyHReg
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May 15, 2023 16:34
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smellmycheese posted:Sounds like they’re all having a blast at this “Conservative Facism” bash
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May 15, 2023 16:36
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Ah, so they finally admit Thatcher was a oval office. Otto English has just pointed out that the song was a cover version anyway.
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May 15, 2023 16:39
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Also the 'me' generation/decade/whatever was about the 70s, about boomers and hippies and cults and the suburbs.
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May 15, 2023 16:47
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Private Speech posted:The forced labourers weren't all POWs, POWs were only a small portion of the total. I was talking about the Dam Buster op specifically, the wikipedia entry states it was "mainly soviet" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Chastise).
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May 15, 2023 16:48
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No prizes for guessing who it is I’m afraid https://twitter.com/saulstaniforth/status/1658121063232860163?s=46&t=m_nNbkNoHG4lLitcpyHReg
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May 15, 2023 16:53
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Conservatives are all about that individualism until you point out they're not the only individual.
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May 15, 2023 16:55
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 everything she says is Aviation Pioneer Abraham Lincoln levels of pop-factoidhttps://twitter.com/MickCoffey2/status/1658134234752512001  smellmycheese posted:No prizes for guessing who it is I’m afraid
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May 15, 2023 16:55
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smellmycheese posted:Sounds like they’re all having a blast at this “Conservative Facism” bash Odious, witless poo poo. A smirk without a brain to back it up. "Dear delegates, as we all know Bob Dylan should actually have written, 'Mothers and fathers through the land, if you can't understand it, it must be wokeism gone mad' *riotous applause*
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May 15, 2023 16:57
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Guavanaut posted:The NHS consultant was also aware of the game (that's how they got to see one without waiting 4 years), whereas the private ones weren't. Also on the promo on the news at lunch they went to a private clinic's PO box address and pretended to be shocked that there were no psychiatrists there. In the post box. Those tweets are ignoring that many other conditions share symptoms with ADHD and people do think they have it when they dont. The article even includes such a person who got no better after starting the prescription she was offered, and after them ignoring her seeking follow up advice (they had her money at that point) she left a negative review and they threatened legal action. Private clinics would be no problem if they have good treatment, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. 'fake diagnosis ' is a bad name for the documentary though. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 17:18 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 17:08
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Sounds like lovely business acumen, something that could come from any business, and a good reason not to mix business and healthcare. Panorama seem to be coming at this from a completely wrong angle though, people are seeking those services because they know something isn't right, and they know that they can't afford to wait four years for it. The NHS mental and neurodevelopmental systems are broken, and people shouldn't be surprised that when that happens and the need is still there, other less desirable things fill their place. But if you only go after the less desirable things that fill their place, you end up with something even worse. Like with the American panic about "pill mills" a decade or so back, which led to the DEA raiding and closing down both dodgy dispensaries and legitimate chronic pain centers with little care, which led to chronic pain patients being suddenly kicked off of their prescriptions, which led to a wave of heroin overdoses. Is American healthcare a mess? Definitely. Are there even worse things? Yeah...
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May 15, 2023 17:27
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Mega Comrade posted:Those tweets are ignoring that many other conditions share symptoms with ADHD and people do think they have it when they dont. The article even includes such a person who got no better after starting the prescription she was offered, and after them ignoring her seeking follow up advice (they had her money at that point) she left a negative review and they threatened legal action. Yea, the issue is private clinics giving a ADHD diagnosis and stimulant proscriptions to anyone who pays them enough, then shrugging their shoulders and leaving the patient to deal with it alone. It's not really the issue that people might be getting LEGAL HIGHS from them (there's cheaper methods for that, and also drug prohibition is stupid) but that people convince themselves drugs will fix their problems, spend alot of money to get given them with no oversight, then take ADHD meds expecting it to fix their problems but just getting high and suffering unwanted side effects. Now, you might argue it's a lesser evil to the overworked NHS mental health systems and their long lists for a referral to just give anyone who pays drugs and let them work out themselves if it helps (it's basically what we do with antidepressants but without the paying bit) but it's certainly not an ideal outcome and one it's right to investigate.
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May 15, 2023 17:28
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At the end of their autism diagnosis my youngest kid had been waiting so long for a final appointment they were sent private to help clear the books on a waiting time reduction initiative the staff and setting were both NHS, the only thing private was the profits I have no doubt some places are simple pill mills but others are just parts of the NHS that got swallowed up to make some money for people who only actually deserve a short drop
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May 15, 2023 17:35
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They really seem down on pop music at this insane conference of insane people. https://twitter.com/broderly/status/1658108814413971456?s=46&t=m_nNbkNoHG4lLitcpyHReg Of course all this ethnic-facist V for Vendetta poo poo is getting an easy ride in the media as just a Conservative faction battle. If it was Labour discussing the mildest of reforms it would be a full blown communist Revolution
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May 15, 2023 17:37
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Paganism! Wow we are really going to the classics for fear mongering.
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May 15, 2023 17:39
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Imagine there's no Tories It isn't hard to do No one to scream "BALD NONCE!" at And no Piss Diamonds too
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May 15, 2023 17:41
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Autism assessment for kids is another cash cow for private companies. No-one I've spoken to knows a child/family who paid to go private for their child's autism assessment and didn't get a diagnosis. And don't get me wrong - autism is under-diagnosed. But autism is arguably the best-known of the neurodevelopmental conditions and a child who presents with enough features of autism (which can sometimes be '1 feature of autism) could have any number of other conditions. It's just that the parents haven't heard of the others, so autism is the one they assume it is. And once the diagnosis is given, parents rarely want to discuss having that diagnosis changed to something else - even when there's good clinical evidence for doing so. /\ /\ /\ - Desperate Dan One of the issues the NHS faces at the moment is that you spend a lot of time and money training people on how to do things like autism assessments and then they can make a shitload more money going private straight afterwards. Even when you're expected to pay back training fees if you leave within x months/years, you still usually come out ahead if you just cut and run. Also, on the NHS, you may be asked to do clinical work you'd rather not do; go private and take control of your career, y'know?
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May 15, 2023 17:43
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anyone who has went through modern camhs will tell you that being able to get a quick diagnosis would be loving wonderful hard to imagine how much easier my life would've been if after I had several what I will describe as "episodes" I had gotten any diagnosis beyond being labelled in their own words to my mother, an attention seeker.
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May 15, 2023 17:48
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DesperateDan posted:At the end of their autism diagnosis my youngest kid had been waiting so long for a final appointment they were sent private to help clear the books on a waiting time reduction initiative There are a third group. People who have genuinely set up an option they didn't have when they were young and do follow the right procedures and do weed out the lairs. It is those people who are going to get hosed by this and people who don't read the article or watched the program will just assume any private diagnosis is bullshit. Unless you have been through the utter shitstorm that is the current NHS neurodiverse pathway it is impossible to understand just how soul destroying the current system is. The amount of neurodiverse children who need support but most schools just cannot help is massive. An EHCP is impossible to get without a bit of paper and without an EHCP children face years of school being hellish and even expulsion. Nearly every service that helped parents even fifteen years ago has gone, and as was said on Radio 5 live about ASD last week, every service (both medical and educational) switched from preventative to fire fighting. gently caress the chronic underfunding of NHS services and the lives it is ruining.
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May 15, 2023 17:54
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quote:Cates said the low birthrate was “the one overarching threat to British conservatism, and to the whole of western society”, and was a greater concern that the climate emergency, Russia or China. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/low-birthrate-is-uk-top-priority-tory-mp-tells-rightwing-conference-miriam-cates It's not as if we don't have enough of our own culture war, we surely don't need to import even more from the US to try and do the Handmaid's Tale here as well.
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May 15, 2023 17:57
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No-fault divorce has only been available in the UK since the 6th of April 2022. Are they really claiming that birthrates have cratered in the past year? And more childcare means less children?smellmycheese posted:They really seem down on pop music at this insane conference of insane people. But none of them are scary enough for modern Tories to admit in public (Tories back then would fear all of them openly), so into the wicker Marx it is. 
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May 15, 2023 18:01
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These stories are especially insulting to those who have to go through the NHS. Both myself and my partner are on NHS lists, myself for autism and my partner for ADHD. They have been waiting close to a year now with no response. I've been waiting for about 5 months now. ADHD wait times are so bad at the moment that I'm expected to have mine cleared before they are seen again. This is more demoralizing because I'm not "as bad" - I likely won't be prescribed anything, it is more about getting resources and having a diagnosis on a piece of paper I can show employers and education. I've already been given a soft diagnosis by my doctor and I've been handed some information and offered more specialized counselling, which is great. My partner, however, does need medication and the long wait times are incredibly frustrating. You've either realized you have ADHD or something is impacting your life in a significant enough manner that you've been referred to a specialist. At that point you are just waiting for the next part of your life to begin. I will say, at the very least, dealing with the NHS has been a better experience than the HSE in Ireland regarding mental health. I wanted to see if I had autism a few years back (2017?) and I'm still waiting on it. I didn't even bring up autism with my doctor, it was suggested to me. Small victories.
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May 15, 2023 18:02
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My positive, non doomed spin on these insane Tory conferences is that , long term, they know they are hosed. The boomers are dying and the following generations are not going to vote for these crazy fucks
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May 15, 2023 18:06
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We can but hope, though personally I am becoming increasingly skeptical that any breakthrough will happen before I am dead. Unappealing as they may be they have vast amounts of institutional control.
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May 15, 2023 18:09
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They can't even find novel things to be mad about without importing US nonsense that makes no sense in a UK context. "We need voter ID to stop all those poor rural Southern Black and Latino voters voting Lib Dem!" *law affects old white suburban Tory voters* "The biggest threat to the West is no-fault divorce!" *introduced by Boris Johnson's Conservative Party in 2020* What next? Making poo poo up about which 'amendments' they like or don't like?
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May 15, 2023 18:17
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forkboy84 posted:https://twitter.com/jrc1921/status/1658027700391485440?t=oDsamwRerS7OVhEoeVp_KQ&s=19 "We can't put taxes up for rich people because we're in debt close to the levels after WW2!" Taxes after WW2:  Top tax rate was at 90+% until the mid-60s, it looks like. Let's do that again.
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May 15, 2023 18:26
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I think the birth rate stuff is just both pools drawing from the same fundamental well. The specific canards they complain about don't make sense (not that they make actual sense in a US context either) but both are inspired by the desire to have a hegemonic white, male supremacist society that brooks no deviation because that's what miserable tory fossils think will make them happy.
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May 15, 2023 18:28
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having worked as an admin on a CAMHS inpatient for 2.5 years and now a CAMHS community service everything is hosed and it's a miracle anyone gets any help at all gently caress the tories, now and forever anyway i was told the adult adhd/asd assessment waiting list for adults in jan 2021 was about 18-24 months and i'm still waiting so i'm not holding my breath. my favourite was when i had a chat with a consultant psychiatrist before the referral telling me he couldn't believe i'd never been assessed before. you and me both buddy. kinda wish i could round up all the clinicians i've ever worked with who've told me "yeah dude you're pretty fuckin ASD" and make em sign a letter and skip this bollocks Nuclear Spoon fucked around with this message at 18:38 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 18:35
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At least in the US there are states with high populations of poor rural Black and Hispanic voters who vote against hegemonic white interests, and no-fault divorce started in California in the 60s, so while they are definitely being racist and sexist and the rest when they go on about "liberal left-coast valueless free love era divorce and voting laws" and so on, they are pointing at things that actually exist, rather than disenfranchising their own voters and accusing far-left radical Boris Johnson of being a neo-Marxist.
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May 15, 2023 18:36
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Danger - Octopus! posted:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/15/low-birthrate-is-uk-top-priority-tory-mp-tells-rightwing-conference-miriam-cates and by “university attendance” she means university attendance for women, because how dare they want an actual career rather than sitting around at home popping out sprog after sprog for the good of the fatherland
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May 15, 2023 19:03
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Julio Cruz posted:and by “university attendance” she means university attendance for women, because how dare they want an actual career rather than sitting around at home popping out sprog after sprog for the good of the fatherland It can't be that things like the rising cost of living, the drive towards shittier insecure employment or unaffordable homes trapping people in cramped and unhealthy living conditions have any effect on birth rates. That would be ridiculous. God I hate the Conservatives so much.
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May 15, 2023 19:06
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In isolation I'm not sure that does necessarily reduce the birth rate, history was replete with people living in horrible shitholes with infant mortality through the roof but they still had lots of kids. I think they are correct that it's giving people, particularly women, any loving alternative is the biggest driver in reducing birth rates. It's just that I think they want a return to the majority of people living in squalor and cranking out kids for the
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May 15, 2023 19:08
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OwlFancier posted:In isolation I'm not sure that does necessarily reduce the birth rate, history was replete with people living in horrible shitholes with infant mortality through the roof but they still had lots of kids. I think they are correct that it's giving people, particularly women, any loving alternative is the biggest driver in reducing birth rates. It's just that I think they want a return to the majority of people living in squalor and cranking out kids for the Ultimately, the war meat grinder
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