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*watches entire new episode, gets one half-hearted chuckle* See? The Simpsons is still as funny as it ever was.
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May 14, 2023 19:36
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The animation AND the voice-acting are livelier
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May 14, 2023 20:29
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YeahTubaMike posted:The animation AND the voice-acting are livelier Also I don't think you see anything like that angle with the mirror reflecting him and Marge. probably hard to pull off back then, but would be simple now, but nah.. dont need stuff like that anymore.
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May 14, 2023 21:12
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The way the door bends slightly when it closes is exactly the kind of thing they wouldn't have in the show today
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May 14, 2023 21:18
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Last Chance posted:Also I don't think you see anything like that angle with the mirror reflecting him and Marge. probably hard to pull off back then, but would be simple now, but nah.. dont need stuff like that anymore. I saw the episode with the Krusty Comeback Special recently, and for the first time noticed that during the intro when Krusty's singing Send In The Clowns, there are a couple of bits where they 'crossfade' shots like it's a live action multi-camera studio filming, with Krusty seen from different angles at the same time. And then I thought "wow, that must have been really tricky to pull off when it was all hand-drawn". That's a peak Simpsons episode, imo and that effort and skill that went into the animation, and for no real reason (it wasn't in the service of a gag, just a 'look') really speaks to why the show was so good then.
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May 14, 2023 21:23
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Toxic Mental posted:The way the door bends slightly when it closes is exactly the kind of thing they wouldn't have in the show today Also the way that the tanktop creases & moves as he dances around
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May 14, 2023 21:24
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Animated shows in general don't use creative camera angles and techniques like foreshortening etc to play with the perspective, anymore. That's the first thing you'll notice if you watch a 90s episode of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Everything is from the same wide or medium shot, like a live action sitcom. Almost like they don't do much storyboarding. I wonder what Bob's Burgers would have looked like if it was made back then.
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May 14, 2023 21:42
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Mantis42 posted:Animated shows in general don't use creative camera angles and techniques like foreshortening etc to play with the perspective, anymore. That's the first thing you'll notice if you watch a 90s episode of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Everything is from the same wide or medium shot, like a live action sitcom. Almost like they don't do much storyboarding. I wonder what Bob's Burgers would have looked like if it was made back then. Probably a Klasky-Csupo style.
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May 14, 2023 21:52
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Sure I can see a lot of Stu Pickles in Bob, but it'd probably be squigglevision
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May 14, 2023 22:53
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Toxic Mental posted:The way the door bends slightly when it closes is exactly the kind of thing they wouldn't have in the show today Yeah, classic episodes have all these little fluid nuances in the animation that doesn’t even compare to that Homer dancing clip. The latter is so on-model and sterile.
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May 14, 2023 23:53
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This week Bart goes to Krusty's clown school and then the mob gets mixed up in things and hey wait a second! I'm seeing double - four episodes with this same plot!!
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May 15, 2023 01:43
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It had the start of a good joke when Krusty's gag gets only crickets and says "At least the crickets got it." But then they had to go "And they're the toughest insects to please!"
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May 15, 2023 01:58
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Keromaru5 posted:It had the start of a good joke when Krusty's gag gets only crickets and says "At least the crickets got it." Ha, that's a really good li— quote:But then they had to go "And they're the toughest insects to please!" Son of a bitch
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May 15, 2023 02:07
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I really don't get the twitter praise for that stair dance. Comparison to golden years aside, it seems a bit jerky to me, like there's bits of frames missing between some of the steps. At best, it's mildly interesting because he's doing a complex routine, but that's stuff MMO hobbyists have been producing for years, even more fluidly. Also they could've at least thrown in an actual gag, like say have Homer completely overshoot the couch.
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May 15, 2023 02:20
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Keromaru5 posted:It had the start of a good joke when Krusty's gag gets only crickets and says "At least the crickets got it." If that was a murmur in the background it could have worked. But, having not seen the scene, I already know the delivery. 
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May 15, 2023 03:07
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Wrong! With Krusty it's the other way around.
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May 15, 2023 03:19
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emgeejay posted:https://twitter.com/blujayzstuff/status/1657493280030859264?s=61&t=0u0iPLgsrw9rb7UXErdBQA No one can actually think this looks good, can they?
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May 15, 2023 04:05
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it genuinely is more high-effort animation than you’d see on the show five years ago. the problem is that it still looks like poo poo
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May 15, 2023 04:10
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iamsosmrt posted:Also they could've at least thrown in an actual gag, like say have Homer completely overshoot the couch. I've been thinking about this. And I was going to say something like, "Do they still do jokes where violence is the gag?" But then I realized, Homer missing the couch and breaking his hip / back would be a Family Guy joke. And now I'm upset that I imagined Homer doing the Family Guy 2 Frames of Animation Drop to the Floor™ as he swings over the couch.
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May 15, 2023 05:06
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emgeejay posted:it genuinely is more high-effort animation than you’d see on the show five years ago. the problem is that it still looks like poo poo Yeah, it definitely takes a lot of effort to do, but it's not really expressive at all. I kinda wonder if it's specifically referencing a tap routine from some old movie, maybe even tracing over one, but that'd also be a Family Guy gag. Seems like it might miss the appeal of tapdancing, but I don't know much about that.
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May 15, 2023 06:13
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Kavner’s voice in that clip makes me sad. Is there a reason none of the main VAs have left? Yes, they are paid extremely well, and they might assess that the Simpsons will be made whether they are involved or not, so they should get their piece. But these dynamics play out in other business settings with talent opting to leave. Like founders or other successful senior people leaving a company they could stay at, and continuing making bank, because their heart isn’t in it anymore and they are ready for something new or retirement. And closer to home you have stories of entertainers turning down huge sums to continuing on their projects, e.g. Seinfeld.
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May 15, 2023 06:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, it definitely takes a lot of effort to do, but it's not really expressive at all. Honestly it's not that much effort for animation. For TV animation it's a bit more than usually, but only by a bit. The only part I thought stood out was the short run towards camera and leap on to the couch as you had a bit of movement with the camera and they did some nice subtle parallaxing which can be a real bitch to get right.
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May 15, 2023 07:01
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In the old days that clip would be full of Homer grunting and making weird noises (like in the fire/mattress scene) and they would be the source of most of the humor. This feels like the animators and the voice actors are contractually obligated never to speak to one another Data Graham fucked around with this message at 13:29 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 10:49
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Halisnacks posted:Kavner’s voice in that clip makes me sad. Because they worked it into their contracts years ago that they don't have to go in to LA or wherever and do their voices? If you can sit at home or go to a nearby place and crap out a couple days of work a year for millions of dollars, why not keep doing it?
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May 15, 2023 13:14
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Yeah, I get that. Lots of celebrities could make way more money than they do if they went completely mercenary and were less discerning with their professional projects. I would have assumed at least one of the VAs would have burnt out on the show or just decided they didn’t need that Simpsons money anymore. It’s not like all the writers stayed.
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May 15, 2023 16:50
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Writing for a show takes up a larger percentage of their time, and if the writers want to step up in their career, they can't stay around writing for the Simpsons, while being a VA just means showing up a few days in a booth, and the Simpsons VAs have been able to keep doing plenty of other work in their careers as much as they like while still showing up to get a paycheck from the big famous show they have a big part in. Some people with successful careers independent of their VA work on the Simpsons just have recurring roles because it's not much of a hassle for them. Once you're past the main cast members, it's even less demanding to just agree to keep showing up. But also there was one VA who did leave the show for a little while over a pay dispute, and that's why they killed off Maude Flanders
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May 15, 2023 17:29
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Halisnacks posted:Kavner’s voice in that clip makes me sad. Oceans of cash & are at the peak of their field and still have millions of fans, & minimal outside pressure to leave. Also while not as much an issue nowadays as they’d probably retire if they left, need to consider a substantial amount of the cast wouldn’t have other shows rushing to hire them. It’s rare a big name talented creator genuinely cares more about the quality of their work than money. Calvin & Hobbes somehow not being seized by a hedge fund & ground into powder is an unusual outlier.
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May 15, 2023 17:55
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Mantis42 posted:Animated shows in general don't use creative camera angles and techniques like foreshortening etc to play with the perspective, anymore. That's the first thing you'll notice if you watch a 90s episode of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Everything is from the same wide or medium shot, like a live action sitcom. Almost like they don't do much storyboarding. I wonder what Bob's Burgers would have looked like if it was made back then. Compare this to any modern Simpsons shot:  Even a simple conversation was visually interesting back then, just by having the characters move and express themselves: 
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May 15, 2023 22:40
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Modern Simpsons also has this audio issue in which every single voice, sound effect, and the interior or exterior in which they occur are all mixed and leveled the same. Everything is at the same safe level and nothing sounds different. There’s not even reverb or echo or distance or anything anymore. I don’t know if it’s because the VAs are quite literally phoning it in instead of recording stuff in a proper studio, but it all sounds like soppy poop butt. The foley artists on the classic episodes were really passionate about who is speaking, what’s occurring, and where it’s occurring and mixed everything accordingly. Even that gag where someone excuses themselves and you hear them off screen power walking to running, slamming a door, starting a car and peeling out sounds believable. The footsteps get softer indicating distance, the door slams like an interior door should with some reverb, and the car both starting and peeling out sound like they’re really outside the place where the scene takes place. Case in point (and to bring it back to great classic animation), Homer singing in the bathtub in Treehouse of Horror III (  , I guess because he’s naked, but y’all nerds should know that).https://youtu.be/pQcFTH68jFQ He sounds like he’s actually in the bathroom with lots of reverb, and his bare feet running on solid floor sound great and disappears as he runs off. Even the silverware clanking the dishes sound good. I also love how his entire head stretches when he screams, the background slipping from abstract colors to a second of smeared kitchen to proper kitchen, and Patty and Selma’s bug eyes… good lord. Their expression never fails to make me laugh. Imagine that scene modernized. Homer’s scream would be like two frames of animation and the background would just be the normal house as he ran.
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May 15, 2023 23:46
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Classic/Golden Simpsons definitely often has a cinematic look and feel to it. I tried explaining this to a friend who loves Bob's Burgers and only got into good Simpsons recently because of me, but they don't agree with me that good Simpsons is better. Bob's Burgers always looks and sounds the same unless they are singing. Same volume. Same cadence. Always flat camera angles, though it's better than new Simpsons and Family Guy in this regard. There's hardly ever a pause in the dialogue which is the biggest thing that makes it feel... functional.
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May 16, 2023 00:32
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Lol what was Homer singing in the tub originally though? No way was his lip sync that bad accidentally. ^^^ Do they at least agree that Good Simpsons is funnier? Like if someone laughs an equal amount at modern Simpsons and 90s Simpsons it makes me think the problem is my own brain and there's some context I'm direly missing
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May 16, 2023 01:23
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Pretty sure the Simpsons VAs have just been doing it for literally 30 years by now that it's just what they do, and stopping would be more trouble than not.
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May 16, 2023 08:55
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And they'd all have home recording set ups and can probably do an episode in an hour or two. 22-44hrs work a year for a few million sounds pretty good.
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May 16, 2023 10:38
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Can’t blame them at all simpsons has sucked for god knows how long get the bag and milk it as long as you can kings.
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May 16, 2023 10:59
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I doubt the voice actors even accept unsolicited feedback from anyone during the recording process. I seriously doubt there’s anyone left in the entire simpsons production process with the clout to even tell a cast member they came across a little flat and should retake it. I also remember reading that Fox either provides a home studio or books session time wherever the actors want, so these people are probably strolling to their pool house for a few hours to record a couple episodes. Why give up $millions per year to spare yourself from some studio time set around your terms and convenience? Imagine being Harry Shearer and by mindlessly reading an episode’s worth of crappy dialog, then Fox cuts a check that lets you gift one of your grandkids a condo in Manhattan or whatever. Sign me up. Maybe I’m thinking it’s easier than it actually is, but based on what I’ve read about them I picture it like that part where Lisa is recording the lines for Lisa Lionheart when Krusty comes in and does them all rapid fire and leaves before the studio guy is even ready lol
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May 16, 2023 16:30
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gamer roomie is 41 posted:Maybe I’m thinking it’s easier than it actually is, but based on what I’ve read about them I picture it like that part where Lisa is recording the lines for Lisa Lionheart when Krusty comes in and does them all rapid fire and leaves before the studio guy is even ready lol Like there is a lot of skill that goes into professional voice acting and good performances often do require a lot of prep and working with directors and what not, but they've been doing the same characters for 30 years, the scripts don't call for much at all, and they're all talented professionals, I'm sure it's not that much harder for them than doing a Krusty.
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May 16, 2023 16:43
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You Are A Elf posted:Modern Simpsons also has this audio issue in which every single voice, sound effect, and the interior or exterior in which they occur are all mixed and leveled the same. Everything is at the same safe level and nothing sounds different. There’s not even reverb or echo or distance or anything anymore. I don’t know if it’s because the VAs are quite literally phoning it in instead of recording stuff in a proper studio, but it all sounds like soppy poop butt. I've been trying so hard to figure this out. Like, yes, I've talked about the animation being flat on multiple occasions, but it didn't quite occur to me that the flatness of the sound makes the animation seem even flatter than it already is. quote:Imagine that scene modernized. Homer’s scream would be like two frames of animation and the background would just be the normal house as he ran. And Patty & Selma's reactions would be more  than  edit: Data Graham posted:Lol what was Homer singing in the tub originally though? No way was his lip sync that bad accidentally. Huh...that's a good question.
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May 17, 2023 14:54
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Mantis42 posted:Animated shows in general don't use creative camera angles and techniques like foreshortening etc to play with the perspective, anymore. That's the first thing you'll notice if you watch a 90s episode of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Everything is from the same wide or medium shot, like a live action sitcom. Almost like they don't do much storyboarding. I wonder what Bob's Burgers would have looked like if it was made back then. Pennsylvanian posted:Probably a Klasky-Csupo style. Considering the creator and cast of Bob's Burgers, it would probably just look like Dr. Katz
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May 17, 2023 15:27
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Mantis42 posted:Animated shows in general don't use creative camera angles and techniques like foreshortening etc to play with the perspective, anymore. That's the first thing you'll notice if you watch a 90s episode of The Simpsons or Family Guy. Yeah look at something like Animaniacs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hps_NyqEyKk Or Rockos modern life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoyB9zHYxi8 Or Batman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMucplM3CUk Sure they're all more stylized but it's not just that, you can actually tell they think about frame composition. I mean even King of the hill which intentionally very not "flashy" animation wise, still really good at going into close ups for character reactions, and obviously has a lot of thought put in to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsmsDafYyaM New Simpsons just really seems to love a lazy wide for everything, while telling stories that are trying to be frantic, action filled, and a bit zany for a bit word. Just makes it all feel really lifeless and distant, the compete opposite of what they're going for.
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May 17, 2023 15:55
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