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Invalido posted:Imma open up this can of worms here and mention ABS. I don't think that's a can of worms at all. ABS is great and a universally positive safety feature. The dumb argument some people have is that learning on a bike without ABS forces you to learn threshold braking rather than just hauling on the lever. Maybe that's true, kinda. I think learning on a bike with ABS simply means that you won't crash from braking errors during that learning period. Then if someday you want to get a bike without ABS, well, hopefully you've learned where the ABS threshold is, since that's the same point you need to avoid, and you also now have the skills to ride out a bit of a skid if you need to. You don't need to have ABS, but arguing that you shouldn't have it is like saying it's safer to ride without a helmet because you'll be more careful. Dumb
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May 15, 2023 15:52
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Sagebrush posted:Also I wasn't kidding about it ruining the phone camera. If you have a phone with optical image stabilization, which is most phones and all iphones these days, there are floating lenses that are moved around with magnets and coils, and the vibration of being firmly mounted to motorcycle handlebars will shake those elements to pieces. dadbike with android auto/apple carplay integrated in the dash, problem solved
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May 15, 2023 15:57
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The reason I don’t think a new rider should have navigation is because it hinders development of your vision skills. You need to be able to read the roadway and surrounding environment, anticipate what will happen, and adjust your speed accordingly. Vino is in Los Angeles if I recall correctly, and I don’t think navigating Los Angeles (or most of California for that matter) is particularly difficult without navigation.
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May 15, 2023 16:15
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Gotta say navigation can be great for twisty roads with blind corners. You shouldn't rely on it. But it can tell you a something about how tight a corner you can't look through will be. In traffic, i feel like it's a distraction. I found myself watching the screen while i should've been paying more attention to the cars around me. In the end, it's all compromises and you have to find out for yourself if it's too much of a distraction or not.
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May 15, 2023 17:18
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Seconding suggestion of bluetooth audio for navigation. Also suggest staying away from the cheaper Sena headsets. Lot of friends and myself have problems. It's bad enough where I am probably going to buy Cardo next time.
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May 15, 2023 17:19
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Lmao are you kidding, LA looks identical in every loving intersection, it’s like navigating a hedge maze. Only native Angelinos can do it. But I do miss the days before GPS when you had to learn without being told where to go, so that’ll be my life. The bike I’m getting has ABS and based on my course when the wheel locks you don’t hear a sound. I’d rather know the wheel locked because it goes clunk clunk clunk, that will be both safer and help me learn and avoid the locking point.
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May 15, 2023 17:23
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LimaBiker posted:Gotta say navigation can be great for twisty roads with blind corners. You shouldn't rely on it. But it can tell you a something about how tight a corner you can't look through will be. What if the navigation is wrong, eg thinks you are somewhere you are not, or even just has a road poorly modeled? What if your battery dies, or you have no signal, and now you have to ride down a road without it, something you are not used to doing? If you should not rely on it, what value is it at all? When I first started, I thought about installing something for navigation as well, for the very reason of "knowing" the corner I was coming into. I never installed anything, for whatever reason, and I think it is the right choice. If you really feel you need navigation, don't let me stop you, but I strongly recommend you only use it for knowing where to go, and not for knowing how tight or fast a corner is. You should be using your eyes and brain for that stuff. Some examples for context. The road almost surely turns after this crest. I should be prepared to slow. This is a tight turn, as I can see the other side of the road through the trees. This road turns right, but I cannot tell how much. I should be ready to slow down further as needed.
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May 15, 2023 18:11
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LimaBiker posted:Gotta say navigation can be great for twisty roads with blind corners. You shouldn't rely on it. But it can tell you a something about how tight a corner you can't look through will be. Bad, bad, bad, bad, BAD IDEA. DO NOT DO THIS. If you don't have a sightline through a corner, you ride at a speed that ensures you can stop in the distance that you can see (which is always slower than you can technically take the turn). I don't care if the GPS says you can totally take it pretty fast or if you're used to the road and know exactly how steep it is or anything. Nothing but your eyes can tell you that this time there's a patch of wet leaves in the road, or a rock slide, or a minivan full of tourists stopped taking pictures, or a cow. Look at the route beforehand if you like, but absolutely do not be trying to use a screen for any purpose while riding twisty blind roads. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 15, 2023 |
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May 15, 2023 18:16
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LimaBiker posted:Gotta say navigation can be great for twisty roads with blind corners. You shouldn't rely on it. But it can tell you a something about how tight a corner you can't look through will be. Yeah I had a sacrificial phone on a bar mount for much of my recent four day 1200km motocamping trip - it's something I've never used before, and it's definitely a very useful tool for various things especially on unfamiliar roads. Not just for navigation either, for example I found out I sometimes like knowing how the road twists up ahead to decide whether to do a pass now or just chill until the long straightaway that's coming up just around the next bend that's probably even safer. Still, despite the advantages and regardless of the situation it's a distraction from looking up and around you which is a negative any way you look at it, and the more of a newbie you are the bigger and more dangerous this drawback becomes. Without lots of experience you just don't know when it's safe enough to take your eyes off the road for a second or three. For me personally I think the mount will stay on the bike but I'll only put a screen in it if I feel there's a good enough reason to do it despite the drawbacks, and I'm in a mood where I'm strong enough to resist the temptation to look down despite not needing to. I think I still prefer bluetooth audio as a casual navigation aid. Or I just wing it and get lost sometimes, that's OK too. I'm actually thinking about putting electrical tape over various parts of my dash for a while to try and teach myself not to look at it so much, it's a bad habit. I think I'd do just fine with the angrily blinking part of the fuel gauge, the engine temp and the idiot lights. Possibly the digit signifying "ten" on the speedo, just maybe, as the occasional reality check.
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May 15, 2023 18:33
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Sigh, that's why i explicitely say you shouldn't rely on it.
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May 15, 2023 18:38
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New riders have enough to take in without also trying to see what's going on with the screen. I do like having navigation and traffic info for longer rides, but think it's too much of an extra risk for a beginner.
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May 15, 2023 18:39
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If I’m going somewhere new on the motorcycle I will look at the navigation on google maps and also use street view on the turns or anything else weird before I go. Then I do use my phone mounted as navigation but I only glance to see when the turn is coming up. For some reason audio navigation is hard for me.
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May 15, 2023 18:41
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You can always split the difference (using a vibration dampener and accepting the risk or burner phone) and turn off the screen when you’re not trying to navigate something labyrinthine. It isn’t just either/or. I’ve got my phone mounted low enough that I have to look at it so that it’s an intentional thing and not a constant distraction. For me, this keeps me from taking my eyes off the road unless I really need to. Turns out that’s a rare occurrence. I also have the screen turned off most of the time (and not just because we’re getting to warmer weather) so that the directions are only in my ears. Everything is risk mitigation. Not having anything on your handlebars is safest, yes. And as a total newbie, safest is the way to go. If you feel like you need that visual aid to get around, then be intentional and thoughtful about it. I’ll also recommend crash bars, but only to protect the bike. Don’t think of them as something to save yourself because they won’t. You’re almost certainly going to drop it at some point, though. Probably in some very dumb, zero mph way. It’s nice to do minimal damage because that gravel in the Taco Bell parking lot was looser than it looked.
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May 15, 2023 18:51
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Tangentially related, and maybe someone here knows the settings to change in google maps navigation? The thing that makes google's nav pretty worthless to me is the whole automatically redirecting you to whatever google thinks is appropriate. I usually scout out my route while I am stopped and choose back roads/avoid major thoroughfares, but use navigation to make sure I don't miss turns in areas I am unfamiliar with. Once I put my phone in my pocket though, google will often just up and decide that "nope, you sure didn't wanna use that route you laid out 5 minutes ago" and direct me straight to all the worst superhighways and intersections. So, uhh, yeah I guess I wouldn't really recommend google navigation on that alone. And beyond the basic distraction of a screen, do you guys meaningfully manipulate touchscreens while riding? My gloves have touchscreen friendly fingertips, and there is a real distinct possibility I'm just terrible at it, but I cannot comfortably do anything on a phone with them on at a stop much less while riding. The last thing I would totally recommend for basically everyone who rides in a major U.S. city (only experience is with a handful of those) is to get pretty well aquainted with the address system. I can't speak to L.A., but Portland, OR has a really pretty intuitive system of numbering/naming streets on a X/Y grid, and just knowing how that works can often get you to within a stone's throw of an unfamiliar place without the need for navigation. Mileage may vary in some East Coast towns.
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May 15, 2023 18:54
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Look it's very simple: never ever have your phone out while operating a motorcycle for any reason. Very simple. Just don't do it. Any advice to the contrary is dangerous nonsense. End of story.
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May 15, 2023 19:19
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My gloves work pretty well, but that setting is maddening, especially since it always wants to redirect me while I’ve got my screen locked in some twisties. Agreed on learning your city’s address layout. Portland’s system makes it pretty easy with (mostly) alphabetic street names and clear delimitations between NE/SE/SW/NW.
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May 15, 2023 19:30
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If you need to use your phone, just stop and take a glove off! That way you aren't operating a loving motorcycle while using your phone! It's a good thing I'm not a mod here or I'd be probing people left right and center rn
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May 15, 2023 19:45
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LimaBiker posted:Sigh, that's why i explicitely say you shouldn't rely on it. It's too tempting to do so if you have the option though. No distracting screens while riding. The motorcycle dashboard instrument that I am continually working on (I swear) is designed specifically to present only critical information and in a glanceable arrangement. All phone screen poo poo is poo poo.
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May 15, 2023 19:46
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I went to all the trouble of getting a quad lock with vibration dampener and case, and now that I have a cardo I’m probably going to take it off. Getting audio directions when I need it is infinitely less distracting than having to look down at a screen that also pushes text notifications to me. I already feel distracted enough looking down at the little bar end mirrors the previous owner installed.
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May 15, 2023 19:56
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Slavvy posted:If you need to use your phone, just stop and take a glove off! That way you aren't operating a loving motorcycle while using your phone! Hard agree. “Touchscreen compatible” moto gloves should not be a thing that exists.
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May 15, 2023 19:56
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Phones are specifically designed to grab your attention. People on the other side of the phone make money if they get your attention. I had planned to use the mounted phone only with the self discipline to put it on airplane/do not disturb mode before starting but this thread is of course right in saying why even take that risk? Your life isn’t worth avoiding a wrong turn.
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May 15, 2023 19:59
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Something like the beeline product feels like a proper amount of direction without being information overload. But everyone should get a cardo anyway. I swear Google’s audio prompts are pretty clear.
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May 15, 2023 20:03
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I’m upgrading my Cardo to one of the models with voice prompts because the main thing I ever want to do is skip a track I’m sick of. Now I’ll be able to just yell at my helmet to do it. I goofed up a setting that made it stop reading me text messages as they came in some time last summer and have never fixed it. One of the best things that’s ever happened to me. I’ve also come to realize more and more that I’d usually rather miss a turn than look down. I don’t feel bad I have the option available to me but I can also see that I’m safer as I use it less and less. Doing a dumb thing and not dying long enough to realize it was dumb.
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May 15, 2023 20:16
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Not having a phone or GPS screen to look at is one of the best parts of traveling by motorcycle instead of by car
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May 15, 2023 21:50
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The worst part is getting hit by people looking at theirs.
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May 15, 2023 22:29
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I don’t know about y’all but getting away from all types of screen is specifically why I motorcycle. This is all too much noise for a newbie thread answer. When you’re learning how to control a motorcycle, making navigation decisions is absolutely not a thing you should be thinking about. Ride familiar roads and have a clear, pre decided course you’re going to take. There should be no surprises or last minute “oh I’ll take a right here instead” in your first few months of riding. There are way too many other things you’re dealing with unless you live out in the country near 3 intersections total.
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May 15, 2023 23:00
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Llewellyn posted:Something like the beeline product feels like a proper amount of direction without being information overload. But everyone should get a cardo anyway. I swear Google’s audio prompts are pretty clear. Is cardo better than the sena competition? I listened to myself in my own sena and the audio quality outgoing is just atrocious. I'm in a full face shoei RF1200, it should not be that lovely sounding.
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May 16, 2023 19:39
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I have a Sena 10c evo installed on my RF-1200, and people say they can’t even tell I’m on a bike. I have the mic mounted on the chin bar with the little foamie thing on it. I also have the chin curtain installed on the helmet.
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May 16, 2023 20:33
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spouse posted:Is cardo better than the sena competition? I listened to myself in my own sena and the audio quality outgoing is just atrocious. I'm in a full face shoei RF1200, it should not be that lovely sounding. 1) something is possibly wrong with your particular Sena - all the ones I've heard sound fine 2) Cardo has started selling models that lock features/capabilities behind software subscriptions (https://www.roadrunner.travel/products/cardo-announces-first-communicator-with-subscription-service/) so I'd suggest staying away from their newer stuff. I have a couple of older Packtalk Bolds and while the intercom functionality is fine the voice command stuff is flaky and their Android app truly sucks
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May 16, 2023 20:48
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Well I just passed my written test and I'm gonna take a Harley themed basic rider course to waive the skills test.  I'm looking at the rally model of the Honda CR300L. basic requirements are I don't want a shitload of bike, I need to ride dirt roads, and a passenger would be cool. Am I on the right track?
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May 16, 2023 21:05
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I'm very happy with my Sena 30K, I've heard recordings of what comes through the other end and it's nice and clear. Phone calls are fine too, the other person never has an issue understanding me and I've also had people say they had no idea I was on the bike. I'm also using the small wired mic stuck to the chin bar and not the boom mic. My group all runs Sena and they work great until we need to loop somebody in with a Cardo or non-mesh Sena, that's always a pain in the rear end.
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May 16, 2023 21:36
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knuthgrush posted:Well I just passed my written test and I'm gonna take a Harley themed basic rider course to waive the skills test. Forget having a passenger for the foreseeable future regardless of your bike Otherwise yeah spot on
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May 16, 2023 21:45
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moto journalists love to piss and moan about small displacement hondas not having enough power so i figured that's a good thing for me as a new rider lol
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May 16, 2023 21:54
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OMGVBFLOL posted:moto journalists love to piss and moan about small displacement hondas not having enough power so i figured that's a good thing for me as a new rider lol Moto journalists are incredibly ignorant and stupid about basically everything, their job is subcontracted marketing and has no bearing on what bikes are actually like
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May 16, 2023 21:58
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knuthgrush posted:Well I just passed my written test and I'm gonna take a Harley themed basic rider course to waive the skills test. Be aware that both the old 250 and the 300 rally are not well sprung for bigger people. I image its eh.. interesting to do 2 up on. Supradog fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 16, 2023 |
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May 16, 2023 22:08
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The 300L Rally is a great bike that you can learn many useful things on. Last I tried looking for one it was impossible to find though, so maybe consider the non rally version and the KLX300 as well.
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May 16, 2023 22:09
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Kawi also make the KLX230 dual sport, but it's got a bit less power. And it's air cooled
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May 16, 2023 22:31
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Thanks for the info. There's a CR300L and the rally version at a nearby shop. They alsonhave the trail 125, which was allegedly hard to find when I bought my ruckus. Guess I'm just lucky. I'll consider the Kawasaki, too. Most of their bikes just look like buttcheeks to me but I know looks aren't important. I also considered a TW200 but they're hard to find here but seemingly easy to find elsewhere?
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May 16, 2023 22:51
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Slavvy posted:Forget having a passenger for the foreseeable future regardless of your bike How will I ever accomplish my dream of the 9 person pyramid while doing donuts in the Walmart parking lot?
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May 16, 2023 22:51
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You gotta start with not falling over when you've only got one person on the bike and go from there
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May 16, 2023 22:56
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