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cuc posted:Meanwhile, in reaction to Return's 41% positive reviews on Steam (767+15 total reviews, including 334 English reviews at 56% positivity, 209 Simplified Chinese reviews at 16% positivity), they have relented and will port AoE1 campaigns over. Well, we still have 20something more campaigns to go (maybe even 30 with the Return ones we already have), at a rate of about 1 a week-ish, plus people asked about me showing off some custom stuff, so worst case scenario I just put off doing everything AoE1 related until the end of the year by which point this all resolves itself. Tying into this... Jossar posted:[...]Not porting the old campaigns would be a little bit of a gut punch, but it is possible that the development team might have thought they were bad and wanted to wholly replace them with the new campaigns. This has already happened: Definitive Edition has a missing campaign from The Forgotten, El Dorado, where a bunch of Conquistadors ran off into the jungle to look for the mythical city of gold, which was instead replaced with a campaign focusing on the Incas, Pachacuti. I'm not sure how to grade my predictions: I was right on the initial call that the absence of the old campaigns in the trailer meant that we weren't getting them at all, but I drastically underestimated the extent to which Microsoft seems to be invested in trying to make this work. But the poor reception strengthens my conviction that this is a long term failure, and Microsoft will eventually just cut their losses and stick to AoE2-only content. For better or worse (mostly better), we've moved on. Jossar fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 19, 2023 23:39
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Personally I always assumed this was a one-and-done thing, there's a reason Vietnam being so into AoE1 was noteworthy - pretty much everyone else moved on to AoE2 and there's no real reason to go back to 1 due to the lack of QoL features, early design clunkiness and civs being basically identical tech tree-wise.
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May 20, 2023 00:37
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Would like to see yet another take on the Yamato campaign. In the first versions of vanilla AoE there was a couple missions about the Japanese colonizing part of Korea and participating in the Battle of Baekgang and this did not sit well in South Korea, so Ensemble had to rewrite part of the campaign so it's just an invasion of Kyushu or something like that.
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May 20, 2023 02:07
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Some time ago now but I really think that the Genghis campaign has aged poorly, the pacing is just completely off. Having the entire Mongol Conquest of China be boiled down to a single scenario against 5 enemies, but dedicating the final mission to the Mongols ransacking little old Hungary, especially when the previous mission was about their campaign against the HRE and Poland is a terrible choice. It really shows the game's issues with Eurocentrism when that was the only mission where the Chinese were a major faction in the Ensemble era (they give some troops in the Korean Scenario but don't really play any role beyond that), and its a bizarre reduction in complexity for the final mission. I think the last Genghis mission is the only mission in the game outside of the tutorials where there's just one other player on the map. Mashing together the Mongol invasions of Russia and conquest of Khwarezmian (hey!) empire into one scenario was also a bad idea that doesn't give proper billing to either campaign. Ironically, if they wanted to have a separated two pronged attack against totally different enemies like they have with the Persian/Russian scenario, it would have made more sense to combine together the 5th and 6th missions since its meant to be a depiction of the almost simultaneous battles of Mohi and Legnica. It would have made far more sense there to use that concept since it kind of happened historically, much more than the campaigns against Persia and the Russians. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 03:11 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 03:07
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Alaric - Part 4: The Giant Falls Mission 4 Starting Text Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Uluzah "Never had I seen Alaric lose his temper, but Sarus' betrayal infuriated him. He ordered me, his brother-in-law, to commence the siege of Rome. The walls of Rome were huge and had not been breached since Brennus and his Gauls. However years of decline had weakened the city and its walls were badly in need of repairs. Inciting the men to battle, Alaric vowed, 'If the Romans want fire and steel, it is fire and steel that we will give them!'" So yeah, turns out that Ataulf is our campaign narrator. Like Henry the Lion, you can figure this out a bit early if you're paying attention to the in-game voice clips.  Scout: The Romans have twelve castles protecting the inner city. To take Rome, we must destroy all of them. There's your mission objective, plain and simple: the map consists of the city of Rome and its immediate outskirts. Destroy the city's twelve Castles to win, with an achievement for doing it in 30 minutes or less. The city itself is neutral, but is protected by two enemy factions representing the Legions and Rome's city garrison.  Visigoth Soldier: Our allies are ready to storm the Roman walls. All that they await is a message from our scouts.  Visigoths: Assail the walls, men! Alaric is here! You have two allies in this mission, but they start the game inactive and need to be woken up by sending troops to their bases. My starting army is sufficient to break through the perimeter forces of the Imperial Legions and wake up the Visigoths in the east of the map.  But I found that the path to Ataulf was a little too well defended, combined with the fact that I was getting raided by Roman forces at the edge of the city. After destroying a couple of the outer military production buildings, I pull back and boom a little.   Then I proceed to destroy the castle right next to my base, at the southern tip of Rome. This not only stems the flow of enemy troops, but also converts most of the military buildings in the surrounding area for your own use while advancing through the city. You also get a small gold tribute for capturing each section.  Your allies don't have quite as much initiative as a human player would, but they still do a decent job of attacking and destroying buildings, putting pressure on the Romans on multiple fronts.  Ataulf: It is a beautiful day for a sack, Alaric. I am glad that you could join us. By this point, my economy and military production have stabilized enough that I am able to destroy the rest of the Romans' outer buildings and wake up Ataulf in the west of the map.  Most of the rest of the scenario is just slowly overwhelming the Legions and city garrison, and setting fire to as much of Rome as humanly possible.    There's some unique architecture here too. Destroying the wonder-type buildings gives you get extra gold in tributes. Visigoth Soldier: What has become of this once-mighty city?   This well-defended cluster of buildings and fortifications at the edge of the map made for the most difficult area to approach, so it served as the finale to my mission, but I don't know if that's just a coincidence or if it's supposed to be something important like the barracks of the Caelian Hill. Ataulf: Rome has fallen! Take all of the loot that you can carry, brothers! Mission 4 Ending Text "During the long weeks spent besieging Rome, Alaric's calm nature returned. He issued an order to the warriors to spare the city when conquered. In his heart, he could not find the will to destroy the empire he had served, though it had betrayed him one too many times. Our brave soldiers breached the walls and the defenses quickly crumbled before the weight of Visigothic men rushing into the breaches. Our men looted the city for days. We stripped statues and monuments of their gold, and loaded carts with so many precious goods that the wheels were close to breaking. At the end of the third day, a caravan of ox-drawn wagons carrying plunder could be seen as far as the eye could see. The Romans would write of that day: 'In one city, the whole world perished.'" This scenario is the only one in this campaign that shares the map of its original Forgotten counterpart, but the gameplay is entirely different. It used to have a bunch of RPG elements, but is now more of a standard fight. I didn't find it to be as interesting as the other scenarios in the campaign so far: Rome is too big and the spectacle of it all is a bit diminished when everything feels so same-y. Could've used something like narration describing each of the areas surrounding the twelve castles for flavor, at least. Extra Slides Mission 4 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 4 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 4 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 4 - End Slide 1 Mission 4 - End Slide 2 Mission 4 - End Slide 3 Mission 4 - End Slide 4
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May 20, 2023 03:46
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khwarezm posted:Some time ago now but I really think that the Genghis campaign has aged poorly, the pacing is just completely off. Having the entire Mongol Conquest of China be boiled down to a single scenario against 5 enemies, but dedicating the final mission to the Mongols ransacking little old Hungary, especially when the previous mission was about their campaign against the HRE and Poland is a terrible choice. It really shows the game's issues with Eurocentrism when that was the only mission where the Chinese were a major faction in the Ensemble era (they give some troops in the Korean Scenario but don't really play any role beyond that), and its a bizarre reduction in complexity for the final mission. I think the last Genghis mission is the only mission in the game outside of the tutorials where there's just one other player on the map. Going to disagree with this: as I said when I completed it, mechanically I really liked the final scenario of that campaign. The real obstacle was that the enemy side of the river was a giant fortress that you had to break through in order to achieve victory, and if anything, that was made more difficult by the fact that it was all controlled by one AI rather than a number of disparate forces. If I had to rewrite the campaign, I would have reskinned the Hungarians to be Mongols and replaced the Kara-Khitai mission with it instead (and probably just have it be about chasing down Genghis' former blood brother Jamukha once and for all instead of Kushluk). Unfortunately, this is the part where six scenario limitation becomes a real problem. Even if you squished all of the Central European stuff together, you would still only get one additional mission to play around with. Either China gets stuck with the same amount of screen time as it currently has, or the player still has to fight Persia and Russia together. Given the choice I'd probably give China a second mission, but as long as the devs were committed to having everything besides the tutorial campaign be the same length and have the Genghis campaign try to cover all of the Mongols' conquests, we were never going to get everything dealt with in a satisfactory matter even if there had been different priorities. Jossar fucked around with this message at 04:40 on May 20, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 04:21
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Crossposting from the main game thread.Technowolf posted:Some of the original AOE campaigns are coming back to ReoR.
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May 20, 2023 06:31
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completing this mission in half an hour was one of the most difficult imo (although Sargon 3, destroying purple's wonder before it's completed is giving me great difficulty
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May 20, 2023 08:16
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Sally posted:maaan i started up the Alaric campaign to start playing along with the LP but i relented and got Return of Rome instead. p fun so far but the pathfinding of units seems worse than base AoE2. my boneheaded swordsmen and legionaries keep letting other swordsmen walk by them and destroy my ballistas. i have never had this problem in ApE2 before... its been a dogs age since I played AoE1... is this just true to the OG gameplay? I feel like pathfinding in general is worse than before, I've had lots of units getting stuck or pathing weirdly since the patch. Also, monks seems really reluctant to heal units now, unless you give them a manual order. Mazerunner posted:completing this mission in half an hour was one of the most difficult imo It's probably the hardest achievement in the game, imo. Even on standard and with a good strategy, the timing is really, really tight. The addition of the Romans likely increases the difficulty further; Legionaries were already a problem for the Goth swarm, and now Centurions will buff them further.
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May 20, 2023 09:38
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Having no time to write more detailed reviews of each level, here's some trivia about AoK's most hardworking background extra, filling in for all the assorted Slavs and Anglo-Saxons until their own civs arrived... or not. CastleDallasia The Goths Wonder: Mausoleum of Theodoric.  Icon: based on an Ostrogothic brooch. UI Emblem: AoK: the King from Lewis chessmen; DE: Gallic helmet.  Campaign Symbol: The Forgotten: Gallic helmet; DE: Gallic helmet and Late Roman spatha.  Unique Unit: Huskarl - Infantry with high pierce armor, making them resistant to ranged attacks. As you probably already know, these are "housecarls" in English, literally "house men", a lord's personal retinue troopers. They were a Northern European institution that spread to England by the Danish conquest. While similar structures existed in many societies, it's still a medieval Norse/Anglo-Saxon concept transplanted to the Late Antiquity Goths. The unit itself is modeled on a Late Antiquity foederati warrior, wearing a Gallic helmet... bell-bottom trousers?... And a muscle cuirass? According to Sandy Petersen's "Age of Kings Super Units" video, Huskarls are conceived from the common pattern for designing AoK unique units, by inverting a basic unit's function: an infantry that counters its normal weakness, the archers. He didn't give an in-fiction explanation to its ability, though I'd like to think it's an abstraction of shield walls. Huskarls feature again in Age of Mythology as an advanced anti-archer infantry of the Norse. Bonus: +10 population limit If you remember the Great Population Schism, this bonus is obviously designed for Ensemble's intended 75 pop game, giving the Goths a maximum population of 85. It feels quaint in the 200 pop era. However, it's equally obvious that the bonus cannot be balanced by simply scaling it up with the pop limit (+26 or 27 for 200 pop), which is why it has never been changed. Castle Age Unique Tech: Anarchy - Huskarls can be produced in Barracks. Thematically a boring truism about pre-state societies lacking a central government, this was the only "silver crown" Age 3 UT when The Conquerors introduced the UT concept, and Goths were the only civ to have 2 UTs. When 200 pop games upped the army sizes, the expensive 650-stone Castles could not match wood-costing normal buildings in numbers, in addition to its essential duties of map control and lategame Trebuchet maker. These factors have kept all but the most overwhelmingly powerful UUs like the Mangudai out of an army staple role, if they are used at all. And as AoE2DE nerfed the Mangudai, even their prevalence has diminished a little. It's frequently suggested that for most civs, something like Anarchy that enables UUs in normal buildings can give their UUs more time to shine and still be a ways from being broken. cncgnxcg posted:It's quite possible that Perfusion doesn't work for the extra barracks you get, because AoEII has always been weird about units/buildings that are given to you after already being controlled by another player Imperial Age Unique Tech: Perfusion - Barracks work rate x2, halving production and research times. The Age 4 "golden crown" UT completes the Goth "infantry zerg" package, inspired by the traditional, highly inaccurate image of barbarians pouring into the Roman empire in the Great Migrations. A community member who had some early association with Forgotten Empires traced the image, of barbarians so numerous they are impossible to count, to a passage about a passage in Res Gestae, about Goths seeking refuge in the Roman empire from the threat of Huns: Ammianus Marcellinus posted:the ill-omened officials who ferried the barbarian hordes often tried to reckon their number, but gave up their vain attempt; as the most distinguished of poets says: Virgil posted:Who wishes to know this would wish to know FE had incorporated this "Numerous As the Grains of Sand" reference into their official Goths description. It is also the name for the "win by building only infantry" achievement of Alaric 2. (To be cont'd) cuc fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 10, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 15:19
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It's funny too given that there's an (overly simplicistic) argument that the Goths were the ones who introduced Eastern shock cavalry to Europe
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May 20, 2023 15:33
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CastleDallasia The Goths cont'd Campaign: Alaric In the AoE2HD period, FE drew heavy inspiration from community writings of Sandy Petersen, sometimes almost like his words are a future roadmap. This campaign choice is likely based on a forum post by Sandy, who answered "Alaric" when asked about what figure he most wanted to make a campaign of. Since their formation, FE have never actively publicized their campaign authors. We know who made each commercial DLC campaign, but can't be sure about authors of the original The Forgotten ones without digging deep into old forum posts or campaign AI scripts. From DE campaign signatures, we know the DE version is remade by Freeman1302, who also worked on HD levels. His other known works include a scenario that was cut from The Forgotten, Kaesong (936) (HD version, DE version), a Historical Battle about Korean unification by Kingdom of Silla. In an alternate timeline, it would be the second official level to feature the Koreans. Tech Tree: missing Stone Wall The Cumans are the only other civ to share this trait. According to Ensemble's design document from a leaked early build, this trait was inspired by Totila tearing down Roman walls during the 6th century Gothic War, i.e. that time Justinian sent Belisarius to take back the Western Empire. I'll let the aforementioned community member speak: Battler posted:ES's justification is that the Goths didn't have have the manpower to defend cities with walls, which better explains why they can't build them.  Tech Tree: Dromon replaces Cannon Galleon The change introduced this week by Return of Rome. If designed today without AoE2's two decades of baggage, Dromons would most certainly be a Byzantine unique unit, and they would attack using siphons of Greek fire. (In original AoK, the Byzantine UI emblem is a manuscript Dromon drawing.) But a fact of life for the Definitive Editions, is that they have to paint inside the lines drawn by Ensemble and Big Huge Games. In Return of Rome, Dromons are armed with catapults, a non-gunpowder counterpart of Cannon Galleons, whose role in the meta is to smash through Castle-locked enemy beachheads in late-stage water games. Conceived as a unique Western Roman ship (evidenced by its UU tag at launch), it has been given to other Roman-adjacent civs: Byzantines, Goths and Huns, replacing existing Cannon Galleons in the former two's case. With Huns gaining the Dromon, the native Americans and Cumans are the only civs still lacking any coastal bombardment option. Cannon Galleons aside, the Goths have a good navy that's only missing Dry Dock, perhaps as a way to quietly lump in the Vandal conquest of North Africa. ====  This weekend's suggested reading is Rome Didn't Fall When You Think It Did. This is a decent pop introduction to the current academic consensus. That is to say, one of AoE2's basic premises (which FE has dutifully repeated in their new History entry for AoE2 Romans), that "Rome has fallen" in 476 CE, is propaganda fabricated by one of Justinian I's trustees, the historian Marcellinus Comes (not to be confused with Ammianus M. above), to add the Western Roman empire to a list of lost territories alongside North Africa, for his boss to gloriously reclaim in the future. It's laying groundwork for an Eastern invasion, detached from how the actual Western empire perceived themselves. The combined ambitions of Justinian and the Franks destroyed the Western empire, while the Ostrogoths tried to keep the system up and running. Notes not covered by the article: - Some historians tried to find Western empire sources for the 476 date. Apparently their arguments are unconvincing. - Justinian and his aides like Marcellinus and Belisarius were from Illyricum. They strongly identified with the Chalcedonian orthodox. The Ostrogoths' heretic Arianism was another reason they saw them as illegitimate. - The 476 fall idea lived on in Byzantine empire, and was introduced to the Western side by Paul the Deacon, a historian in Charlemagne's court. ==== cncgnxcg posted:I feel like pathfinding in general is worse than before, I've had lots of units getting stuck or pathing weirdly since the patch. cuc posted:"largest balance update ever" to AoE2DE since launch, bringing a fresh round of features and glitches, including another pathfinding-fix-that-breaks-it-some-more. cuc fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jun 9, 2023 |
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May 20, 2023 15:58
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Jossar posted:Going to disagree with this: as I said when I completed it, mechanically I really liked the final scenario of that campaign. The real obstacle was that the enemy side of the river was a giant fortress that you had to break through in order to achieve victory, and if anything, that was made more difficult by the fact that it was all controlled by one AI rather than a number of disparate forces. As a final scenario it was just too easy, and the quirks and extra scripted events that you would associate with something like this barely matter, like you can handily complete the campaign long before the bridge is destroyed or Subutai appears. I don't really know why you say that its more difficult to fight one AI instead of multiple ones, its easier to split a single AI's attention with simultaneous multiple pronged attacks and push them to the limits of what their pop cap and economy can handle, the final Genghis scenario just ends up being a very plain siege scenario without much flavour to it. Ultimately trying to represent the ridiculous sweep of Mongol conquests in one campaign was too much for what could be pulled off in this game. They probably should have straight up had two different campaigns for the Mongols if they wanted to show the Western conquests in some detail, Subutai could easily shoulder an entire campaign following things like his infamous scouting expedition, the battle of Kalka River, and the battles of Mohi and Legnica that would be focused more on the Western push. Genghis's campaign could flesh out the campaigns on the Eastern Steppe and China more than it is in game. It is interesting to see how some of these things are depicted from the other side later on with the Cuman campaign though.
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May 20, 2023 16:53
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Alaric - Part 5: A Kingdom of Our Own Mission 5 Starting Text "With Roman treachery repaid, Alaric looked to the future of our people. He planned to sail us to the fertile Roman province of Africa, but before we left, he passed from this world. Our people mourned for days and Alaric's body was buried underneath a river stream - the channel diverted to dig the grave, then made to flow again, hiding his tomb forever. Soon after, the fleet that was to take us to Africa sank in a storm. Once again, desperation fell upon our people. It was at that moment of despair that I, as the dead king's brother-in-law, spoke. I reminded everyone of Alaric's dream, of his commitment to the survival of our people, and of the impossible obstacles we had overcome. I told them that Alaric and I shared the same vision, a vision that we, in honor of his memory, ought to fulfill. I concluded, 'Alaric has carved a path for us, and that path leads to Gaul!'"  Visigoth Soldier: We still have much gold left from sacking Rome, but this gold will not last. We should use it to create our own kingdom and conquer all of the Roman cities in Gaul.  Western Roman Empire: Get out of Italy, you savages! You can use these transport ships to cross the Rhône, but never come back!  After a short starting segment where you're once again told by Romans to  , you cross the river and into Gaul. You're given a few run down buildings and some small mineral resource piles which makes this spot as good as any to build a base. The one big difference is that for most of the start of the scenario your gold piles will be very limited, so you have to make the most of what you already have until you've made decent headway into destroying the enemy factions. There's some larger stone piles further on, but they're guarded by a couple of towers that Sarus, back from the third mission, has up. They're not too difficult to take down, but they do serve as a warning sign of what's to come...    Starting at around 25 minutes in, most of the enemies on the map will start attacking in force, and Sarus is the most dangerous of them all with his flood of Huskarls, Champions, Halberdiers and Rams. He does a number on my base and it's only through spending a copious amount of resources that I'm able to fend him off.   Despite facing what are all ostensibly Roman cities, in practice your enemies are an eclectic mix of Civilizations. Narbo is the biggest immediate threat, they're playing as the Italians and will send Arbalesters and Galleys to supplement Sarus' attacks.  Valentia here is probably the weakest of the cities, playing Celts. The only thing I find particularly notable about them is their Scorpions. In this case, I'm destroying their forward Castle because I find it to be the easiest way to break into Sarus' base, going the other way around leaves your supply lines susceptible to being disrupted by troops from Narbo.  Sarus: I will not go down without a fight! Eat iron, Ataulf! No matter which way you choose to approach his territory, it's clear that Sarus needs to be taken out before anyone else. He's too dangerous to ignore and too good at bouncing back from nothing to contain for any meaningful amount of time.  Sarus: I die for the Empire! Fortunately, he does have a hidden weakness. Sarus is an actual hero unit on the map for this mission, a reskinned William Wallace, who starts garrisoned in his base's central castle. Destroy enough of his forces and Sarus will come out to deal with you personally. Kill him, and his army resigns, leaving you free to focus on taking down the cities.    Of these, Narbo is the biggest priority. Partially this is because they're the largest active threat left on the map, but also because they have this massive gold pile that will last you for the rest of the scenario. This is about the point that I otherwise would have started running out, and I even have to switch to massing Halberdiers for a bit before my gold supply reestablishes itself.    Fortunately, they also turn out to be useful for assaulting the next city, Tolosa. They're playing as the Franks so you know the deal, Throwing Axemen and Paladins. They're supposed to be the toughest city on the map, but with the partial pivot to Halberdiers I have all of their counters, so they're tough but not a threat. They also have a Monastery with two relics in it, if you wanted to get some more gold that way.    As mentioned, Valencia has nothing really special beyond the other two cities apart from a moderate amount of Scorpions.  So at this point you can complete all three Castles simultaneously and win the mission, but I feel like we're missing something... Romans: Our emperor, Honorius, has concluded that it is unwise to have a barbarian kingdom so close to Italy after all. Your little adventure ends today, Goths. Oh right. Building a Castle in an area marked with flags defeats the city in question, and it tributes 2000 Gold to you. However, once you do so in even a single city, the remainders of the Western Roman Army, having fled from Italy to a base in southern Gaul, will activate and become another aggressive force. There is no real reason to ever have to deal with them, as by the time you've claimed the territory of even one of the cities, you have enough gold to defeat the rest of the cities conventionally, and if you drop all three Castles at once you win immediately. But y'know what, the Goths are sick of backstabbing Romans, and so am I.     Only after the WRE's army is crushed. Only after its' Barracks and Castles are turned to smoking piles of rubble. Only after the last Legionary is backed into the shadows of the mountains of Gaul, mercilessly stabbed to death, and torn to pieces by twenty Huskarls...  Visigoth Soldier: Gaul is ours! The Goths now have a land to call their own. Only then do I build the final Castle, and claim vengeance, victory, and a kingdom for the Visigoths. Mission 5 Ending Text "Each night I have the same two visions. One of a field of wheat stalks swaying in the wind. Another of bright burning flames, trampling horse hooves, and loud screams. My people, the Visigoths, live peacefully in the rich lands of southern Gaul. Our farms flourish and our cattle grow in number every day. But for all our fortune, I cannot shake the ominous visions I have every night. Like Alaric, I've seen the future. The Huns are coming and they will stop at nothing..." So yeah, I may have gone a bit axe-crazy at the end. But it's a testament to how good this campaign is that I felt it couldn't end any other way than making my own narrative of the Goths getting their own chance to twist the knife. This campaign, in what I hope is going to be a prelude to the rest of the "later" campaigns, is not afraid to put gameplay front and center. Particularly the Goths' unique gameplay, since even in the Castle Age scenarios they still gave you Perfusion so you could feel like you were drowning the map in bodies. It is one of the most enjoyable experiences you are ever going to have with the Goths, unless you are exceptionally good at multiplayer. And on top of that, it still managed to have a decent story, at least as far as AoE II campaign stories go. A shame that from this point on we're going to be seeing a lot more campaigns with only 5 missions rather than 6, but that's how it is. Extra Slides Mission 5 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 5 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 5 - End Slide 1 Mission 5 - End Slide 2 Mission 5 - End Slide 3 Mission 5 - End Slide 4 Mission 5 - End Slide 5
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May 20, 2023 18:27
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Campaign Vote #8 A. Attila the Hun - Huns B. Montezuma - Aztecs C. Sforza - Italians D. Vlad Dracula - Turks/Magyars/Slavs E. Bari - Byzantines F. Pachacuti - Incas G. Prithviraj - Gurjaras Voting lasts for 24 Hours from the time of this post. In the event of a tie, I will act as the tiebreaking vote between the two tied options. Please bold your vote in order for it to be counted, as well as noting if you are changing your vote from something else.
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May 20, 2023 18:29
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A. Attila the Hun They have funny shaped heads.
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May 20, 2023 19:15
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Can't really go wrong with Attila and that immortal ending slide (just stick to the original since the definitive edition fumbles that particular element).
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May 20, 2023 19:16
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A. Attila the Hun
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May 20, 2023 19:22
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B. Montezuma
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May 20, 2023 19:28
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With the way Alaric's campaign here ends? There's no question. Going to A. Attila next just fits way too perfectly.
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May 20, 2023 19:36
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Attila
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May 20, 2023 19:47
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let's go with the OG Scourge of God, Attila
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May 20, 2023 20:35
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Attila. Let's get down to business.
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May 20, 2023 21:32
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Poil posted:Attila. Let's get down to business. No joke, its so funny to me the way that Disney probably inadvertently ended up taking a firm stance in one of the most hotly debated topics in Central Asian history just because they needed a steppe nomad villain that people might have heard about but weren't still around to be the source of offense.
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May 20, 2023 21:37
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Attila, lets go from an Infantry horde to a Cavalry horde. Alaric is a great campaign, every mission is fun to play and the last mission in particular just hits the right notes imo, and it feels very satisfying to finally corner and kill Sarus.
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May 20, 2023 22:49
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Attila
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May 21, 2023 00:39
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Vote's closed! By an overwhelming majority of the votes, we ride west with Attila the Hun!
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May 21, 2023 18:30
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Ah, Journey to the West is a classic. Oh, wait, it's not that one, it's not that one at all.
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May 21, 2023 18:54
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Attila the Hun - Part 1: The Scourge of God Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition - Huns Theme Very well, then let us begin, the tale of the Scourge of God.   Mission 1 Starting Text "A severed head on a pike seemed such a grisly trophy to be displayed in the chapel at Châlons. And yet it took me weeks before I got up the nerve to ask Father Armand why he kept it. The ancient priest stared out the window for a long time, recalling days gone by. 'I was there', he said finally. 'At the Battle of the Catalaunian Fields... fighting alongside Aetius and Theodoric the Goth.' I knew there had been a battle here, decades ago. Peasants still overturn skeletons and broken shields with their plows from time to time. 'Who was it, Father?' I asked him. 'Who were you fighting?' He turned back to regard me, paralyzing me with his old-man's stare. 'Attila the Hun,' he said. And then he told me the story. The Huns rode out from the wilderness sometime in the 370s, eager to feast on a Roman Empire weak from internal corruption and the expansion of other barbarian tribes. It was the Huns who drove many of these other barbarians before them. They were terrifying warriors from the steppes of Asia, their bodies disfigured from ritual scarring, their legs deformed from a near lifetime in the saddle. Despite their fearsome aspect, the Huns might have been little more than raiders, had it not been for the leadership of Attila. He called himself the Scourge of God. Attila and his brother Bleda led the Huns not just to raid, but to devastate Scythia and Persia."  Bleda the Hun: You challenge my every decision. It is as if you seek to lead the Huns yourself. Very well. The Iron Boar lairs near here. Let the one who kills this mighty beast lead our people. (after a few seconds) This way Attila... follow! Hun Commander: Bleda will lead us to ruin. Perhaps he should not return from his boar hunt. Accidents can happen... This is a great opening sequence. Attila and his brother have been feuding over leadership of the Huns, and so Bleda invites you to a boar hunt to settle things once and for all. There's a number of ways you can approach this: - You can do the hunt as expected, at which point you will be weakened and Bleda tries to kill you, complete with an ambush party of Archers to finish the job. You can try and fight them at the clearing, and it is possible to win, although rather dicey. Or you can run back to the main camp and reveal Bleda's treachery, at which point all of the Huns' forces except the assassination party turn on him. - You can assist Bleda with the hunt, but arrange it so he has an "accident" and the boar kills him. Return to camp and the Archers from the assassination group accuse you of plotting Bleda's death, but the leader of the Tarkans says that they must have been likewise plotting against Attila. Some of the Tarkans stay as enemy forces, but the majority convert to your side and help you defeat Bleda's loyalists. - You can just stab Bleda in the woods, which results in more damage to Attila, but avoids having to deal with the timing on the boar. Otherwise, this plays out exactly like the above scenario.  Hun Tarkan: Bleda wastes our time. Let us follow Attila. (after a few seconds) We ride with you, Attila! Let us go. Bleda will soon seek you out. Some of our families are across the western river. We should see to them. - You can also refuse to put up with Bleda's nonsense and leave.  Hun Tarkan: This road leads to a bridge in both directions. Northwest is the way we want. South leads to the Romans. Just as you're crossing the bridge: Bleda the Hun: Get out of my sight, Attila, and take your traitors with you. I have no brother!  Hun Villager: Attila! Welcome! We are not many who follow you, but we will follow where you lead - lead us to glory! Not going on the hunt and staying in the Hun camp gives you a couple of Tarkans including their commander (a slightly beefed up Tarkan), at which point you book it according to the instructions that you're given. Bleda and his forces chase you to the bridge, but will go no further unless you attack him or cross back over. It's a weird option: it's kind of worse than the standard start, but you also can't get these villagers and their extra resources unless you do this (or sequence break). You do need to unify the Huns eventually to complete the scenario, no matter how you choose to start.  Hun Tarkan: Some time ago, the Romans captured a number of Hun villagers. Bleda arranged for their return, but I did not trust Bleda and I do not trust the Romans. We should free them - no bargaining!  Eastern Roman Empire: Our arrangement was with Bleda! I will not turn the captives over to Attila! You must take them by force! Five minutes in and you get a mission to go and rescue some villagers from the Roman camp to the south. Predictably, the Romans refuse to deal with you, and you have to beat their garrison and free the hostages yourself. Once you destroy their troops, you might as well take out the rest of the Roman camp. The mission that you're going to get after unifying Huns is defeating two of the map's other three enemy forces and the Towers that the Romans have aren't going to dissuade even your small band of Tarkans from tearing down all of their military production facilities.  Scythian Scout: Wait! I am the son of Leipoxais, a leader amongst my people. If you free me, you will be rewarded.  Hun Villager: We are saved! Scythian Scout: My thanks for rescuing me. We nomads should work together. Perhaps if your leader, Attila, will visit our village in the west, our people can make an alliance. For now, a truce? In a set of palisades next to the ones where your own villagers are contained is a Hero Scout Cavalry. Free him and the Scythians turn Neutral and give you a side-quest. Incidentally, this only applies once you let the Scout Cavalry out of the palisades entirely. If you try to have the Villagers break him out from the inside, he remains hostile and will start attacking them.  Meanwhile, the Persians are trying to set up forward Stables right next to my base. I have no idea why they like doing this, but it happens at least twice throughout the scenario.  Leipoxais: We owe the Huns more than our gratitude, but we desperately need horses. If you could supply us with 10 horses, we will repay our debt of honor.  A bunch of Horses are scattered around the map, gather up 10 of them and deliver them to the marked area with flags, and the Scythians will ally with you. I've seen arguments for both sides as to whether to take out the Persians or Scythians as the second enemy, but the questline usually convinces me to side with the Scythians. You do get an achievement for ignoring the Scout Cav's pleas, killing him, and defeating the Scythians though.  I build a little too close to the bridge and Bleda's forces try to run across and attack my base. Bleda doesn't build additional troops, so they're no big deal by this point.  In addition to allying with you, the Scythians also give you a whole bunch of Mangudai, which they will replace for free if you lose all of them.  Hun Tarkan: Attila is king of the Huns! He will lead us to victory against our blood enemies. With my brand new Scythian mercenaries in tow, I go back to Bleda's camp and fill him with arrows. Everything that's left converts to my control and I get a sizable tribute of all resources.   Persian Shah: You would be wise to withdraw from our domain and pursue your petty conquests elsewhere, Huns! All that's left to do is build up an army of Cavalry Archers and Tarkans and defeat the Persians. They have a mining camp right to the south of the Huns' main base which needs to be taken out, but the majority of the action is in their main base to the south. You do need to be careful about managing their Galleys, as the Persians have a large presence on the water and will continually harass your land troops with their boats.  Persian Shah: You have foolishly tempted our wrath! The Persian Shah loves to banter with you as you rip his city apart. He has another line triggered by either you getting close to the city or sending villagers onto his turf. Persian Shah: You play a dangerous game with the lives of your people by sending them into our territory!  Destroy enough of the Persians' critical infrastructure and they resign. There's a Castle back there that I never even got to siege. Mission 1 Ending Text "I asked Father Armand more about this legendary Attila the Hun, whom the stories always treat as more of a monster than a man. 'He was a man,' the priest said, 'but he did not look like the Romans, nor did he worship the Roman god. That was the cause of all that was to follow.' Father Armand shivered as if from the cold breeze that blew in from the chapel's open window. Kingship among the barbarians was not by divine right or lineage, but by who had the strongest will. Attila was the strongest of the Huns, and he reinforced his position by brandishing a rusty old blade and proclaiming it to be the Sword of Mars, the old Roman god of war. Attila had a custom of fiercely rolling his eyes, as if he wished to enjoy the terror that he inspired... He had a power over other men, so that many chose to join him. Many foreigners joined his council, Scythians and Burgundians and Goths. It was not uncommon for Romans to do so as well - several decades prior, the son of a prominent Roman family had been sent to the Huns as a hostage to ensure peace. The name of this boy was Flavius Aetius, a name not soon to be forgotten." It's not quite entirely an RPG scenario, but it comes pretty close? The Attila campaign has a lot of scenarios like that, where the conditions are atypical, but it's still obvious that you're playing AoE II and not some other game. I learned that you do need a decent number of Tarkans to do the job of siege though, only a couple of them does not feel anywhere near weighty enough. Extra Slides Mission 1 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 5 Mission 1 - Intro Slide 6 Mission 1 - End Slide 1 Mission 1 - End Slide 2 Mission 1 - End Slide 3 Mission 1 - End Slide 4
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May 21, 2023 22:13
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I do appreciate how many ways there are to approach the first part of this mission.
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May 21, 2023 23:37
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Jossar posted:
How do you "fiercely" roll your eyes?
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May 22, 2023 16:58
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In the non-DE/HD ersion of this map, the Scythians will give you extra mangudai every x-minutes, so essentially infinite ones if you're patient enough. Also, in The Conquerors, and unpatched DE, it's possible to lure Bleda to the bridge across the river, and if you get him to move across the bridge as the event giving you the villagers triggers, Bleda will be converted to your control aswell. Bleda also isn't a Hero unit in The Conquerors, which means you can convert him with monks. Neither of these achieve anything, it's just funny.
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May 22, 2023 17:31
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Nostalgamus posted:How do you "fiercely" roll your eyes? i imagine it's a bit like Tyra Banks' smiling with your eyes but while also rolling them: https://youtu.be/IolPTBw6M9M
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May 22, 2023 19:10
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Attila was the original mean girl
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May 22, 2023 19:17
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Attila the Hun - Part 2: The Great Ride Mission 2 Starting Text "Now that the memories had stirred, Father Armand seemed eager to tell his tale. He explained how the Huns, like the other barbarians, had a style of warfare dramatically different from the ancient Romans or my own Franks. The Huns would charge as one group, often firing arrows as they came, and then suddenly retreat again. For the nations of Europe, who were used to forming up lines and columns and even issuing challenges for personal combat, this was an aberration. They were unable to comprehend warfare in this manner. Barbarians did not conquer lands. They did not try and hold and colonize the cities they attacked. Instead, they ravaged and pillaged, and took their loot back to their camps. By that time, there were two Roman Empires, the government having decided that the Roman lands were simply too vast for one city to manage effectively. Attila and the Huns began a series of raids into the Eastern Empire."  Hun Soldier: The Eastern Roman Empire is fielding their army. We must hasten with our raids so that we have enough resources to train our own army. This one's meant to be short and sweet. You start with a large raiding force and nothing else. The five small towns each have resources which will aid you in setting up a camp to build up the army necessary to defeat the main camp of the Eastern Roman Empire in the eastern corner of the map. Get in, smash the place up as much as you need to complete your goals, then move on.  Hun Soldier: Let us raze the Sofia town center with our Tarkans and see what loot we may find! (after destroying the Town Center) The Sofians had much food stockpiled in their Town Center. Sofia is just south of your position and has a few Men at Arms that you can kite with your Cavalry Archers, but is otherwise defenseless. Raze the Town Center to the ground for a whole bunch of food.  Hun Soldier: I remember this place. They took several of our raiders prisoner before. We must rescue our Hun brothers held at the Castle before they are executed.   Hun Soldier: Now that we have defeated Dyrrhachium, we can easily free the prisoners. Dyrrhachium has the largest army of all the minor towns, mainly comprised of Archers, Spearmen, and this really annoying Mangonel. Ignore the Wooden Palisade fortification, it basically serves no purpose other than to serve as a tar pit that wastes your time and troops. Instead, break through the town's gates and destroy the Town Center. That defeats Dyrrhachium and saves you the trouble of having to deal with the Castle. Dyrrhachium rewards you with several additional troops, and is the biggest expenditure of effort for the smallest gain, although it can be of use if you're really good at micro and trying to speed run the mission.  Hun Soldier: Huns do not need houses! Let us burn these to the ground and take these villagers with us. (after destroying the houses) Now these peasants will do our bidding! Let us find a suitable location to establish our camp. Well, he's not wrong... Burning down all of the houses in Thessalonica grants you all of their villagers. Be sure to watch out for a couple of Archers and a Monk they have lying around.  Hun Soldier: The gold mines of Adrianople deserve to be plundered! Let us destroy all of their mining camps. (after destroying the mining camps) Roman gold! There is no other metal that shines as sweetly. Adrianople gives you stone and gold when you take down their mining camps. They produce a bunch of Monks to try and slow you down by converting your units, but otherwise have no real defenses.  Hun Soldier: The locals speak of wild Scythians that dwell somewhere nearby. We should be cautious. To the east of this location is the ERE's camp. To the west is a special side-quest zone that I will get back to shortly.  Hun Soldier: The town of Naissus produces the best lumber in the region. Let us take all that we can by destroying their lumber camps. (after destroying the lumber camps) We have captured all of Naissus' lumber! Naissus has no army and is just a freely lootable town. With all five towns defeated I now have the resources to start building a base camp. You can't build up too much of an economy, because this mission sticks to the old 75 unit pop cap, but it's nice to get the resources to pump out a few Cavalry Archers and Blacksmith upgrades. I think in retrospect it would have been more efficient to reverse the circuit just to get the villagers to start working on a Town Center ASAP, oh well.  Hun Soldier: I do not like the looks of this... Going back to the side-quest, we find the return of the ominous trail of dead bodies from the first Mongol scenario.  Scythian Wild Woman: You are most foolish to trespass here. If you bring us 6 of your villagers, we will make it worth your while. In the center of the woods we find a trio of Scythian Wild Women hanging around a hut with their pet wolves. They call us idiots and then ask us to provide them with several villagers for... "reasons."  Scythian Wild Woman: We thank you for this gift. Your reward waits in the clearing to the north. Maybe they just really suck at gathering firewood? Anyway, the Villagers go off on their merry way and for your trouble you get a couple of Mangudai, a Mangonel and three Rams.   With the Cavalry Archers that I've been training, this is enough to attack the Roman fort. The ERE has a decently large army of Long Swordsmen, Pikemen, Crossbowmen, Knights, and Rams, but most of this is just their static forces. With them out of the way, the fort is open for sieging.    Eastern Roman Empire: The Huns have ransacked our fort! I fear for the future of the Empire! The game considers this to be a pretty early assault, at least on Standard. While the ERE will continue to produce troops to fight back with, having not gotten the chance to build a Castle, they just don't have enough numbers or static defenses to stop me running roughshod over their military production buildings and then Town Center. Mission 2 Ending Text "The Roman city of Naissus was erased from the earth. The Huns so devastated the place that when the Roman ambassadors passed through to meet with Attila, they had to camp outside the city on the river. The riverbanks were covered with human bones, and the stench of death was so great that no one could enter the city. Many cities of Europe would soon suffer the same fate. The ambassadors that the Romans sent to Attila concealed an assassination attempt. Somehow, Attila knew of the attempt on his life, and sent the terrified assassin back to his Emperor, with the gold he had been paid to do the deed in a sack tied to his neck. Following such a demonstration, the Huns had no difficulty convincing the Eastern Roman Empire to start paying them tribute, protection money to stave off the inevitable Hun invasion." This scenario sticking with the original pop cap limit really encourages you to just get up and go: in this case, sitting back and booming helps the ERE more than it helps you, so don't let it happen. Extra Slides Mission 2 - Intro Slide 1 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 2 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 3 Mission 2 - Intro Slide 4 Mission 2 - End Slide 1 Mission 2 - End Slide 2 Mission 2 - End Slide 3 Mission 2 - End Slide 4 Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:36 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 03:32
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You don't get the wolves from aiding the Wild Scythians in this version? Shame - not that they're especially good, but I don't think they take pop and are pretty fast.
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May 23, 2023 06:24
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Chronische posted:You don't get the wolves from aiding the Wild Scythians in this version? Shame - not that they're especially good, but I don't think they take pop and are pretty fast. they're also just very fun and flavorful, shame not to have them
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May 23, 2023 06:53
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Even as a kid the wild women were confusing to me. Who are these people supposed to be?
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May 23, 2023 09:05
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Probably my favorite mission out of the entire classic catalogue. The map layout makes riding from town to town such a smooth experience, and there's just the right balance of base building and more freeform combat. Attila campaign in general is the standout imo, its narrative and music have stuck with me ever since I was a kid.
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May 23, 2023 11:43
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:20 |
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Fun fact for dealing with the castle that Younger Me never realized, if for some reason you want to go for that instead of just taking out the town center: Dyrrhachium doesn't have Murder Holes researched on Standard Difficulty. They do research Murder Holes on Moderate Difficulty or higher, though.
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May 23, 2023 13:18
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