Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

except in the manner permitted by the pilot's operating handbook and any applicable placarded instructions

# ? May 21, 2023 14:27

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:09

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

No one wants to see your pitot tube.

# ? May 21, 2023 14:49

n0tqu1tesane: May 7, 2003; She was rubbing her ass all over my hands. They don't just do that for everyone.; Grimey Drawer

hobbesmaster posted:

Well, nobody has recommended a bonanza, but that does fit the bill and this is the classic �doctor killer� path.

My uncle, who is a doctor, had a v-tail Bonanza and used it to regularly take trips to his wife's family property in Big Bear, CA from the bay area, as well as cross country flights to his hometown in Alabama.

This is how his ownership of the plane ended:

quote:

FLIGHT LESSON: THE POWER OF HABIT
ANATOMY OF A GEAR-UP LANDING

In my Beechcraft Bonanza P35 it is a quick 90-minute flight from my airport in Santa Rosa, California, to Mammoth Lakes for skiing. On an upcoming trip I was taking a friend for a single day. Because the return landing likely would be after dark, I went to the airport to practice night stop and goes to become night current for carrying a passenger.

There was drizzling rain with a ceiling of 1,800 feet. I was cleared for takeoff on Runway 32 with a left closed pattern. On upwind and again on downwind I heard discussions between the tower and an inbound Alaskan Air flight and an aircraft inbound on the ILS 32 instrument approach.

On downwind, the gear warning horn sounded, and I increased the throttle slightly to silence it. Abeam the numbers, I contemplated an extended downwind to accommodate landing traffic. Tower asked if I could do a short approach. I quickly accepted and was cleared to land on Runway 32.

With the abrupt departure from the expected routine, the checklist went out of the window�or at least out of my consciousness�and habit took over. I retarded the throttle, lowered the flaps, began to descend, and turned toward the runway.

The tape of a subsequent radio transmission with poor-quality audio does not seem to have the gear warning horn in the background. I have no recollection of hearing the gear horn on descent, but I knew it was working a few minutes prior on the downwind leg.

I gradually reduced the airspeed to 80 knots during the short-approach turn and crossed the threshold faster than expected at 80 knots. I assumed that I was not performing as well as I expected because the flight was at night and I had no recent night experience, although I had performed well on a daytime short approach four days before. As the airplane settled on the centerline, a scraping noise began and the prop stopped.

Clearly, failure to lower the landing gear was the primary cause for the gear-up landing. Failure to perform the landing checklist was a contributing factor. An unplanned short approach had disrupted my anticipated routine. Of course, I had the ability to say �unable� and not accept the short approach.

One factor could have broken the accident chain and averted the gear-up landing but actually contributed to the problem: habit. My usual routine for local stop and goes is to raise the gear on takeoff, fly the pattern, and set power and trim for 100 knots. On reaching the numbers downwind, I use the GUMPS checklist. I lower the landing gear, retard the throttle, put in 10 to 15 degrees of flaps, and begin a descent. On turning base, I add additional flaps and pitch for 90 knots. On turning final, I confirm a green gear light and down indicator, add full flaps, pitch for 80 knots, and adjust sink rate with throttle as needed. Over the numbers, I pitch for 68 knots until the landing flare.

However, I use a different routine when approaching an airport from out of the area, which comprises the vast majority of my landings. I do a preliminary landing checklist after my initial call to the tower or initial position report. I use the GUMPS checklist, initially deferring the gear. Then, I lower the gear on entering downwind and repeat the GUMPS checklist. At the numbers I retard the throttle, lower the flaps, and begin a descent. On final I confirm a green gear light and down indicator for the nose wheel.

In this incident, I used the latter landing habit. At the numbers on downwind, I retarded the throttle, lowered the flaps, and began a descent. For a normal landing out of the area, my gear already would have been lowered.

I recall advice to always lower your gear at the same point on each landing so that it becomes ingrained. Why I seemed to think that this did not include stop and goes or touch and goes is beyond me. Making a habit of lowering the landing gear on downwind entry part of stop and goes�or always lowering the gear at the numbers�would have saved me embarrassment, money, grief, and time.

# ? May 21, 2023 15:59

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

My chief pilot, clearing me to instruct on the Seneca:

"What are your responsibilities?"

"Keep it over blue line and check gear is down."

"How many times?"

"At least three."

"Good to go."

# ? May 21, 2023 16:03

Warbird: May 23, 2012; America's Favorite Dumbass

n0tqu1tesane posted:

My uncle, who is a doctor, had a v-tail Bonanza and used it to regularly take trips to his wife's family property in Big Bear, CA from the bay area, as well as cross country flights to his hometown in Alabama.

This is how his ownership of the plane ended:

Is your uncle an Auburn fan by chance?

# ? May 21, 2023 16:39

Full Collapse: Dec 4, 2002

Warbird posted:

Is your uncle an Auburn fan by chance?

At least they escaped Alabama. :shrug:

# ? May 21, 2023 17:00

Arson Daily: Aug 11, 2003

Warbird posted:

Plz do not gently caress the aircraft and/or boats

Don't kinkshame

# ? May 21, 2023 17:14

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg: Oct 4, 2004; ha, ha, ha, og me ekam

Morning folks, here's a cool one (or I guess two) of a kind plane that came in to my local airport today on a stop over.

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 21, 2023

# ? May 21, 2023 17:24

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

ThisIsJohnWayne posted:

That first thing you suggest carries a prison sentence where I'm from. I support that law fyi

Yes, we have heard that you are a Swede.

# ? May 21, 2023 18:23

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

A Spanish F-18 crashed during air-show practice, pilot ejected before impact but apparently sustained some injuries

https://twitter.com/mgonzalezelpais/status/1659911295611678722
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/spanish-ef-18-hornet-crashes-during-airshow-practice-flight

Should've just given it to Ukraine to crash into some vatniks :colbert:

Here's a cool photo to make up for that.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/shockwaves-bend-light-around-transonic-f-35c-in-spectacular-images

# ? May 21, 2023 19:25

Freaquency: May 10, 2007; "Yes I can hear you, I don't have ear cancer!"

mobby_6kl posted:

Here's a cool photo to make up for that.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/shockwaves-bend-light-around-transonic-f-35c-in-spectacular-images

God drat that�s rad as hell

# ? May 21, 2023 20:23

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

mobby_6kl posted:

Here's a cool photo to make up for that.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/shockwaves-bend-light-around-transonic-f-35c-in-spectacular-images

Nice landscapes but this is the plane thread.

# ? May 21, 2023 20:24

MrChips: Jun 10, 2005; FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

FrozenVent posted:

Nice landscapes but this is the plane thread.

# ? May 21, 2023 21:16

n0tqu1tesane: May 7, 2003; She was rubbing her ass all over my hands. They don't just do that for everyone.; Grimey Drawer

Warbird posted:

Is your uncle an Auburn fan by chance?

Nope, he went to Bama.

Full Collapse posted:

At least they escaped Alabama.

He'd move back if he could talk my aunt into it. He's still got a house here.

# ? May 21, 2023 21:18

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

FrozenVent posted:

Nice landscapes but this is the plane thread.

I think I see something in that third picture.

# ? May 21, 2023 21:38

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg: Oct 4, 2004; ha, ha, ha, og me ekam

Wingnut Ninja posted:

I think I see something in that third picture.

Thought so too, but after looking closer finding something just felt hopeless.

# ? May 21, 2023 21:51

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg posted:

Thought so too, but after looking closer finding something just felt hopeless.

I know this is all a trick to get me to stare at a magic eye image with nothing in it

# ? May 21, 2023 22:01

Warbird: May 23, 2012; America's Favorite Dumbass

n0tqu1tesane posted:

Nope, he went to Bama.

Understandable, we�re not known for our aviation programs.

# ? May 21, 2023 22:13

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

FrozenVent posted:

Nice landscapes but this is the plane thread.

Nice to meet you, Mr. President.

# ? May 21, 2023 22:25

Elmnt80: Dec 30, 2012

Warbird posted:

Plz do not gently caress the aircraft and/or boats

Too late, I have hosed the bote. Or been hosed by the bote, one of those.

# ? May 21, 2023 22:36

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Trigger warning: picture of the wreck of the An-225

Ukraine has ID'd the Russian general who ordered the Mriya destroyed

# ? May 21, 2023 22:54

Blue Footed Booby: Oct 4, 2006; got those happy feet

mobby_6kl posted:

...
...

This is an unspeakably cool photo. God, those shockwaves.

I don't care that it's obsolete, I still love the nighthawk. :colbert:

I had to check wikipedia to make sure it was retired (from combat use). It was, in 2008. But apparently it's still flown as...a training aircraft? Training for what??

vvv oh that would make a lot of sense.

Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 21, 2023

# ? May 21, 2023 23:50

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Blue Footed Booby posted:

This is an unspeakably cool photo. God, those shockwaves.

I don't care that it's obsolete, I still love the nighthawk.

I had to check wikipedia to make sure it was retired (from combat use). It was, in 2008. But apparently it's still flown as...a training aircraft? Training for what??

Simulated opposition forces.

# ? May 21, 2023 23:53

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg: Oct 4, 2004; ha, ha, ha, og me ekam

Nebakenezzer posted:

I know this is all a trick to get me to stare at a magic eye image with nothing in it

If you look close enough you might be able to make out a hummingbird...

# ? May 21, 2023 23:55

PhotoKirk: Jul 2, 2007; insert witty text here

Brian Shul passed away last night at the age of 75. God Speed, Major.

# ? May 22, 2023 00:07

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Love the Nighthawk too, I had a toy one when it was still very much not obsolete and was probably busy bombing something.

Midjack posted:

Simulated opposition forces.

Coincidentally I read another story about it a week or two ago.

quote:

In response to queries from The War Zone, Air Force spokesperson Ann Stefanek has confirmed that the service is currently planning on operating at least some number of F-117A Nighthawk stealth combat jets through 2034. She further confirmed that, "on occasion, we fly certain [F-117A] aircraft to support limited research and training activities" and that there is currently no requirement to preserve any of these aircraft in any state for potential combat use.

In her statement, Stefanek also said the Air Force expects to eventually get rid of the entire F-117A fleet one way or another, but that she did not have exact details on a specific timeline for those divestments.

"We have approximately 45 F-117s currently. As we demilitarize the aircraft, they will be made available to museums, if requested, or be disposed of (scrapped)," she said. "Over 10 have already been approved for transfer to museums."

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/retired-f-117-nighthawks-may-fly-for-another-decade

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35748/f-117-nighthawks-now-appear-to-be-flying-as-adversaries-in-red-flag-aerial-war-games

# ? May 22, 2023 00:07

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

I lived next door to a stealth pilot when they were operational. He described it as "an F-15 with a body kit." I tried to press him for details, but he stuck to OPSEC....

I asked a maintainer at an airshow and he said it was basically parts-binned; F-15 engines and landing gear. A mix of F-16 and F-18 avionics. Weird paint and glass. "Just a normal Air Force fighter under the skin."

# ? May 22, 2023 00:32

Full Collapse: Dec 4, 2002

That sounds nothing like Jane�s USAF and I�m very disappointed.

# ? May 22, 2023 00:36

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

I lived next door to a stealth pilot when they were operational. He described it as "an F-15 with a body kit." I tried to press him for details, but he stuck to OPSEC....

I asked a maintainer at an airshow and he said it was basically parts-binned; F-15 engines and landing gear. A mix of F-16 and F-18 avionics. Weird paint and glass. "Just a normal Air Force fighter under the skin."

Skunk Works goes into this some, the prototypes were definitely just thrown together from whatever components they had handy. I guess if the design requirements outside of stealth are "fly somewhere straight and level and drop a bomb on it" you don't need a ton of crazy optimized bespoke parts.

# ? May 22, 2023 00:41

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

I lived next door to a stealth pilot when they were operational. He described it as "an F-15 with a body kit." I tried to press him for details, but he stuck to OPSEC....

I asked a maintainer at an airshow and he said it was basically parts-binned; F-15 engines and landing gear. A mix of F-16 and F-18 avionics. Weird paint and glass. "Just a normal Air Force fighter under the skin."

Likewise, the U-2 is an F-104 with a body kit.

# ? May 22, 2023 00:49

Salami Surgeon: Jan 21, 2001; Don't close. Don't close.; Nap Ghost

I saw a Nighthawk flying around sometime last year. It weirded me out a little bit.

hobbesmaster posted:

Likewise, the U-2 is an F-104 with a body kit.

That makes sense though since one of the main design parameters of both is "fly really high"

# ? May 22, 2023 04:10

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

Warbird posted:

Plz do not gently caress the aircraft and/or boats

(As seen at Geneseo, 2013)

And a couple others from that show

# ? May 22, 2023 04:21

Wombot: Sep 11, 2001

PhotoKirk posted:

Brian Shul passed away last night at the age of 75. God Speed, Major.

RIP. I should dig out my copy of Sled Driver.

# ? May 22, 2023 05:58

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Wombot posted:

RIP. I should dig out my copy of Sled Driver.

So it's always hard in this crowd to find something about the Blackbird not already known. Here's my attempt: an old blog series where a guy who loves hiking in the desert and aviation tells of his attempts to locate the '928' a ~~Porsche~~ A-12 that crashed in the desert and was subsequently lost:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the-hunt-for-928/

I forget how I found it exactly, but I found the site via the author's posts on the "death valley Germans", some German vacationers who through a series of innocent mistakes ended up dying in the desert:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

# ? May 23, 2023 17:19

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

Nebakenezzer posted:

I forget how I found it exactly, but I found the site via the author's posts on the "death valley Germans", some German vacationers who through a series of innocent mistakes ended up dying in the desert:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

I feel like I have to add "assumed innocent mistakes" since we can only guess at their decisions and motivations.

But it's a very interesting read, do recommend.

# ? May 23, 2023 17:26

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Nebakenezzer posted:

So it's always hard in this crowd to find something about the Blackbird not already known. Here's my attempt: an old blog series where a guy who loves hiking in the desert and aviation tells of his attempts to locate the '928' a ~~Porsche~~ A-12 that crashed in the desert and was subsequently lost:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire-main/bluefire/the-hunt-for-928/

I forget how I found it exactly, but I found the site via the author's posts on the "death valley Germans", some German vacationers who through a series of innocent mistakes ended up dying in the desert:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

I made this exact same blog journey a couple of summers ago. Both stories are fascinating.

# ? May 23, 2023 17:43

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Nebakenezzer posted:

I forget how I found it exactly, but I found the site via the author's posts on the "death valley Germans", some German vacationers who through a series of innocent mistakes ended up dying in the desert:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

Always reminds me of the WWII German POWs who were kept in a prison camp in Phoenix who decided they'd escape by building a wooden raft and floating down the Salt River to Mexico.

# ? May 23, 2023 17:59

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Nebakenezzer posted:

I forget how I found it exactly, but I found the site via the author's posts on the "death valley Germans", some German vacationers who through a series of innocent mistakes ended up dying in the desert:

https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/

Tragic though it turned out, going out onto terrain that can only be safely traversed by someone with a good amount of experience in a 4x4 in a rental minivan with nothing but beer for hydration and an imperfect understanding of said terrain's remoteness and lethality isn't "a series of innocent mistakes."

# ? May 23, 2023 20:00

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Tragic though it turned out, going out onto terrain that can only be safely traversed by someone with a good amount of experience in a 4x4 in a rental minivan with nothing but beer for hydration and an imperfect understanding of said terrain's remoteness and lethality isn't "a series of innocent mistakes."

Don't horrible death-shame

Not everybody gets that nature can be dangerous

fair point about innocent mistake, though

Phanatic posted:

Always reminds me of the WWII German POWs who were kept in a prison camp in Phoenix who decided they'd escape by building a wooden raft and floating down the Salt River to Mexico.

Please go on

# ? May 23, 2023 20:03

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# ? May 27, 2024 18:09

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Pretty sure this thread knows about Tom Mahood.

# ? May 23, 2023 20:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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