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MJBuddy posted:Good. It's how it should be.
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May 23, 2023 01:36
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Let FPSes become like Ace Combat games, with all combat dictated by lock-ons and avoiding them
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May 23, 2023 01:40
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Pvt. Parts posted:What exactly would be the prompt for that?
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May 23, 2023 01:54
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IronicDongz posted:petition for anyone who unprompted brings up rule 34 in the overwatch thread to be thrown into the ocean Hey honestly they were only people producing content for this game for like two years. dogstile posted:Success doesn't mean good. WoW still has like 2 mil subscribers That's just sunk cost fallacy though
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May 23, 2023 02:31
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Pvt. Parts posted:What exactly would be the prompt for that? It's a part of the community, whether you like it or not. Hell it has a loving Wikipedia article lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwatch_and_pornography extremely normal behavior
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May 23, 2023 03:00
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Inept posted:extremely normal behavior I mean, in the grand scheme of human behavior, like, yeah. Yes.
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May 23, 2023 03:05
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never forget Battleborn’s sad attempt to copy the roaring success of Overwatch https://twitter.com/DuvalMagic/status/821140723135352832?s=20
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May 23, 2023 03:07
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comedyblissoption posted:honestly they should keep making it stronger and stronger b/c it would be funny Keep boosting it up until people start bringing recordings into local city councils demanding action. Then boost it again.
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May 23, 2023 04:30
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i am begging the pubbies to please shoot at the monkey bubble, or failing that the monkey
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May 23, 2023 04:34
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IronicDongz posted:petition for anyone who unprompted brings up rule 34 in the overwatch thread to be thrown into the ocean it's the only reason this game is popular, cope
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May 23, 2023 05:25
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:never forget Battleborn’s sad attempt to copy the roaring success of Overwatch Imagine the world where Battleborn beats Overwatch. Trump never would have won. COVID wouldn't have happened. Dammit...
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May 23, 2023 05:34
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Pvt. Parts posted:What exactly would be the prompt for that? It's a part of the community, whether you like it or not. Hell it has a loving Wikipedia article lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwatch_and_pornography I like how the "notable" cartoon porn of the modern age is both overwatch and mlp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pornographic_animation good job humanity.
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May 23, 2023 06:08
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PhazonLink posted:I like how the "notable" cartoon porn of the modern age is both overwatch and mlp. People really like those sexy sexy horses for children.
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May 23, 2023 06:42
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widespread posted:I saw inertia and remembered Tarkov's inertia patch. People hated it lmao. tarkov's playerbase will cry about anything but most of the most prominent tarkov sweats are pro-inertia as something that is clearly good for the game (current hotness is making GBS threads on the weight system as opposed to specifically the inertia) comedyblissoption posted:also it's not cherry picked. the tracking is demonstrated like half a dozen times in that twitter thread again that's a pretty egregious example, it's not always like that but I'm not in any way disputing that it's probably the single biggest problem with the game currently. I wish they'd just flat out remove it because it's incredibly stupid what it does to the high level meta where the single most important piece of info to know about a squad before you push them is what input they're using. it's so loving cancer. imo the biggest problem isn't the tracking assist it's that it just removes basically all recoil. there's zero gun or character combo in the game that outperforms a controller player with an r99 up close. except maybe bangalore in smoke lol (for anyone not following, the smoke disables the autoaim). the only thing it actually succeeds at is making cheaters impossible to notice because they'd have to be rage hacking to outperform aim assisted controller players at close range comedyblissoption posted:i think there's this trend by some game devs on certain games to be absolutely terrified at having too wide of a skill disparity between players so they cripple the gameplay to compensate in the belief they are catering to a wider audience. i'm always curious how popular skill disparity games actually are. Tarkov is the most prominent example I can think of where there is zero matchmaking going on and while it punches above its weight class wrt streaming, idk how popular it is. plus once you know the game a bit, you start to realize that most of the streamed tarkov content is basically just new players getting meat grindered by dudes with 5k+ hours. bsg claims to have 6 figures of daily players but I am suspicious about that after early wipe. also worth noting that a significant amount of the issues the playerbase has with the game trace back to stuff that is heavily connected to putting 250 hour fps players in the same lobbies as dudes with 10k hours. Rust is the other big one that comes to mind for skill disparity, albeit they tried to diminish that significantly when they reworked their entire recoil system to something that basically people could pick up in a day or two of practice (in the old system people spent hundreds of hours learning the pretty extreme recoil patterns on the meta guns). afaik that was basically a wash wrt making the game more popular. rust continues to do pretty well for how old it is, but its continued growth likely comes more from the continued development and the steady flow of content they keep adding. than making the gunplay moderately easier to learn. what other skill disparity games are there? I'm probably missing some. comedyblissoption posted:i think there's this trend by some game devs on certain games to be absolutely terrified at having too wide of a skill disparity between players so they cripple the gameplay to compensate in the belief they are catering to a wider audience. there's at least a couple of papers published and gdc talks on how skill disparities cause people to end play sessions and it certainly seems like that has become one of the contemporary axioms of game design. Most of the non-matchmaking games I can think of are the better part of a decade old or more Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:22 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 06:56
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I've said it before and i'll say it again. I don't hate dev's attempting to balance by player skill. I just really doubt that they all get it right. Bugs happen all the time.
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May 23, 2023 10:13
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Pvt. Parts posted:What exactly would be the prompt for that? It's a part of the community, whether you like it or not. Hell it has a loving Wikipedia article lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwatch_and_pornography we don’t need to know what you’re jacking off to lil bro
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May 23, 2023 11:54
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What do you even say about Overwatch at this point though. It will continue to be a mediocre to bad live service shooter with great characters that will never go anywhere. With their “focus” on the live game it is the same as OW1 but just a little faster. Dig a grave for Overwatch at this point, it has one foot in it and we are just waiting for the other to drop.
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May 23, 2023 14:40
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I can mention that i really don't vibe in current tank meta. Mostly because my last 20 games, i've lost 14 and in all of those 14 had been my team dying to hanzo/widow oneshots before i can even get in jump range and then screaming "stupid tank". I'm currently rated higher in dps than I am tank. That's insane. I might get back to GM as a soldier/junk/torb/mei/pharah player before I will as a tank player.
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May 23, 2023 15:04
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Herstory Begins Now posted:there's at least a couple of papers published and gdc talks on how skill disparities cause people to end play sessions and it certainly seems like that has become one of the contemporary axioms of game design. Most of the non-matchmaking games I can think of are the better part of a decade old or more i think overwatch is a game that striked a great balance on this. they weren't afraid to make a character like tracer with an insane 3+ blinks in a row and also put in characters like mercy and winston that still had depth while maintaining broader appeal. i feel like other types of developers may have been terrified at creating a monster like tracer. comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 15:39 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 15:36
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Saying this, they were also terrified of letting symmetra stay in her casual form, which was way more fun for a lot of people but worse. That auto lock beam was just a skill check that you had to learn to outperform if you wanted to climb past a certain elo and they hated the idea of that.
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May 23, 2023 16:02
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comedyblissoption posted:i'm saying that SBMM frees up the design space to not have to worry about intentionally making the game less fun due to fear of too large skill disparities. not that games should intentionally design skill disparities. yeah I get that, I'm pondering what games actually keep skill disparity around as a deliberate feature because on the positive end it's basically just asymmetry and it adds a lot of depth (and I think a surprising amount of people actually enjoy the challenge). I agree that OW probably did one of the better jobs of incorporating that into the game in a functional way, at least for much of its existence. They ran into a lot of problems when they started trying to walk that back, though half of that trouble was that the actual problem they were addressing was 'how can players 1000 sr lower neutralize smurf tracers' which is really just a matchmaking issue and not a balance issue. which goes full circle back to your point about opening up design space via functioning sbmm. My personal preference these days is for games to have basically strict but loose matchmaking. Loose in the sense that some variety in lobbies is fun: it's exciting to not know when you fight a squad/team/person whether they're going to be mediocre or really good. That uncertainty is really dynamic and it's fun changing up aggression depending on how good a squad you're engaging seems. On the strict end, it's also pretty apparent that there's just nothing good to be gained on either end to throw genuinely new players in with really experienced players. Personally I think that's the sweet spot of sbmm: keep the 50 hour folks on a proverbial newby island away from the 5000 hour folks, but also keep some range in the higher end lobbies, which in turn helps keep queue times down. I really wonder how OW would've turned out if blizzard just did small tuning patches every 2-3 weeks where they changed stuff a couple percent at a time instead of their massive +35% or -35% balancing passes twice a year. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 16:08
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i don't think skill disparity should be intentionally designed into a game, but it's often a natural outcome of fun mechanics. as an example, the aimbot devs are giving players is somewhat motivated by fear of skill disparities. but it makes the game less fun. they might think it makes the game more fun by giving total randos better than shroud level aim. but the problem with this is that everyone is now getting beamed by aimbots which is actually a lot less fun, and movement shenanigans become eyerolls. another example is street fighter 5. they crippled a bunch of fun things in that game moving from the open beta to release, terrified of how good players could abuse the game. the end result was on release good players were anti-airing with literal standing jabs, which was stupid and not fun for a fighting game.
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May 23, 2023 16:41
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comedyblissoption posted:i don't think skill disparity should be intentionally designed into a game, but it's often a natural outcome of fun mechanics. Aim assist exists because it's fun to shoot people and console players won't play a game in which they never hit the enemy. It exists on PC because cross play is valuable to people and 60-70% of the market for free to play shooters in western europe and the US are on consoles, so if you want fast matchmaking and good SBMM you need bigger player pools. And it's not less fun. Apex has hit new peaks of players and engagement ON PC since cross play and AA got introduced. I mean look you might not like it but no one cares. Anyone can plug in a $25 controller and immediately get the same benefits if they're there.
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May 23, 2023 19:04
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Gaming on a controller feels bad. I can't stand GTA type controls, and I don't think I'll even play an FPS with my thumbs. Hopefully some indie groups will still make good PC games. I've got to think that OW is looking at this so they can have competitive cross play and less to consider when balancing. headcase fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 19:35
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sorry youre wrong it makes the game less fun. not having shroud level aim has never been a problem for the fps genre historically. the game is doing well in spite of these problems
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May 23, 2023 19:42
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I can think of a small studio making a fun MP shooter without aim assist
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May 23, 2023 19:44
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How about giving everyone aim assist? And making the game about being good at something other than centering your screen on the red man.
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May 23, 2023 19:44
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Jack Trades posted:How about giving everyone aim assist? And making the game about being good at something other than centering your screen on the red man. I'm not a big fan of the hitscan aim game and think it is boring overall, but I also don't want anything besides my hands to move my perspective. One saving grace of OW is all the slow projectiles. AA would be detrimental for them. headcase fucked around with this message at 20:03 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 19:55
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Yeah I feel like there are tons of things you can do before adding AA. Removing headshots would be one. Smoothing out movement and adding more inertia would be another.
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May 23, 2023 20:19
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video games should make me feel like I’m good at them without my having to put any effort in because I’m a literal child who craves constant validation and can’t handle other people being better than me at a learned skill, thus AA is good actually
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May 23, 2023 21:37
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MJBuddy posted:Aim assist exists because it's fun to shoot people and console players won't play a game in which they never hit the enemy. It exists on PC because cross play is valuable to people and 60-70% of the market for free to play shooters in western europe and the US are on consoles, so if you want fast matchmaking and good SBMM you need bigger player pools. apex is doing well because the game is generally fairly balanced (especially since they old yellered information meta and made valk not literally a must-pick), has characters and skins people seem to like, and gets a fuckton of content/events/regular updates/balance tweaks and, crucially, is pretty much the only movement fps on the market it succeeds in spite of aim assist not because of it. aa no doubt helps consoles crossplay, which is good for the game, but idk how you would even prove that it needs to be tuned to the ludicrous extent that it currently is to make the game succeed Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 21:37
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I'm sure they're all just big loving idiots who don't do things like check retention models or survey feedback or play test. Yup everything they do is great except this one thing which you also conveniently hate.
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May 23, 2023 21:49
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SirKibbles posted:That's just sunk cost fallacy though Kinda ironic that Blizz didn't fall for that after sinking so much time, energy and money into the PvE part of OW2.
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May 23, 2023 21:53
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Overwatch actually removed aim assist from Symmetra
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May 23, 2023 21:57
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MJBuddy posted:I'm sure they're all just big loving idiots who don't do things like check retention models or survey feedback or play test. Yup everything they do is great except this one thing which you also conveniently hate. Every single pro thought it was poo poo for competitive play and this thread usually leans competitive, what do you think we're gonna think?
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May 23, 2023 22:04
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the most popular and profitable games are gachas that condition players to keep buying pulls to win underage anime girls, which means that is objectively the correct best game design and should be more widely implemented, sorry those are the rules
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May 23, 2023 22:10
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leftist heap posted:I can think of a small studio making a fun MP shooter without aim assist The 1 single weekend when people are actually playing this indie MP shooter will be very fun, it's true. Edit: I just realized that you're probably alluding to something specific, which kind of renders my cool edgy cynical take void, but whatever.
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May 23, 2023 22:14
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MJBuddy posted:I'm sure they're all just big loving idiots who don't do things like check retention models or survey feedback or play test. Yup everything they do is great except this one thing which you also conveniently hate. bear in mind that historically aim assist has usually not been as strong as it is in a game like apex. you do not need that level of AA to get console players on board. random example: halo 3's sticky reticule is noticeable, but a lot more mundane.
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May 23, 2023 22:32
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mutata posted:The 1 single weekend when people are actually playing this indie MP shooter will be very fun, it's true. I was making a joke about Overwatch
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May 23, 2023 22:48
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Wheeee posted:the most popular and profitable games are gachas that condition players to keep buying pulls to win underage anime girls, which means that is objectively the correct best game design and should be more widely implemented, sorry those are the rules Christ we're not discussing that at all. We're literally observing proof that the system is engaging and the alternative argument is "auto aim exists because game devs fear my elite skills"
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May 23, 2023 23:04
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