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fatherboxx)
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NTRabbit posted:Originally 57 -A and 18 -B, last updated about 10 years ago, refurbed the air frames to keep them alive when the F-35 delays blew out, and I wouldn't call them unused as they were in service in the 80s. We sold the remaining ones them to some defense contractor in the US to use as trainers, who haven't paid for them or collected them yet, have folded and rebranded at least once, and seem to have pretended the agreement never happened. There have been calls locally to transfer them to Ukraine, but it's never that easy. The other issue with legacy F-18s is they are out of production entirely and have been for some time. Parts and upgrades are going to be a lot harder to source. Lockheed is still pushing out F-16s, there are thousands of them out there, there is a robust ecosystem of various upgrades and vendors for them. They are very adaptable to pretty much whatever roll you want to do with them. You want a EW SEAD/DEAD platform? Sure. You want a coastal defense fighter/bomber? Have at it. You want a A2A small fighter? We got it. You want a tactical bomber or CAS platform? Pull right up! I think ultimately the F-35C would be the best solution for Ukraine but that is quite some time away.
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May 22, 2023 18:30
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No one (in Ukraine) is going to start dropping artillery on a site known to hold nuclear weapons. Ukraine understands better than most countries the dangers of nuclear material.
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May 22, 2023 18:33
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I wonder if this "separatist" action in Belgorod will turn out to be a bad idea. Like I wonder if the Biden admin is pissed off at the Ukrainians right now. What if a bunch of Russian civilians get killed (unintentionally) in this operation ? I mean yeah a whole shitload of Ukrainian civilians have died in this war but Ukraine is supposed to be better than that. Another crazy thing is im hearing nothing at all about this operation in the mainstream news outlets like CNN and WaPo.
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May 22, 2023 18:36
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder if this "separatist" action in Belgorod will turn out to be a bad idea. Like I wonder if the Biden admin is pissed off at the Ukrainians right now. What if a bunch of Russian civilians get killed (unintentionally) in this operation ? I mean yeah a whole shitload of Ukrainian civilians have died in this war but Ukraine is supposed to be better than that. The Guardian is carrying news on it, but there's not much concrete coming out of it right now.
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May 22, 2023 18:37
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder if this "separatist" action in Belgorod will turn out to be a bad idea. Like I wonder if the Biden admin is pissed off at the Ukrainians right now. What if a bunch of Russian civilians get killed (unintentionally) in this operation ? I mean yeah a whole shitload of Ukrainian civilians have died in this war but Ukraine is supposed to be better than that. that's understandable, CNN and WaPo are primarily American media, so UK and German news carrying the story before they can is to be expected, we're a bit closer to Russia, after all
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May 22, 2023 18:49
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Charliegrs posted:I wonder if this "separatist" action in Belgorod will turn out to be a bad idea. Like I wonder if the Biden admin is pissed off at the Ukrainians right now. What if a bunch of Russian civilians get killed (unintentionally) in this operation ? I mean yeah a whole shitload of Ukrainian civilians have died in this war but Ukraine is supposed to be better than that. It's bouncing around the "latest updates" articles and such. They're probably working on a larger write up. https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-22-23/index.html
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May 22, 2023 18:53
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This incursion by, "Separatists," that are invading in American hummers will be played ad neuseum on Russian media.
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May 22, 2023 19:03
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MyMomSaysImKeen posted:This incursion by, "Separatists," that are invading in American hummers will be played ad neuseum on Russian media. Propaganda? On MY Russian state-owned television?
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May 22, 2023 19:06
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MyMomSaysImKeen posted:This incursion by, "Separatists," that are invading in American hummers will be played ad neuseum on Russian media. Seems like a good idea, home in on and really emphasis your humiliation and powerlessness resulting from your stupid war.
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May 22, 2023 19:10
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MyMomSaysImKeen posted:This incursion by, "Separatists," that are invading in American hummers will be played ad neuseum on Russian media. So far it got a whole minute of passing attention on the news because it is hard to spin positively
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May 22, 2023 19:15
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RT is covering this as a "Ukrainian sabotage group". I agree, they've not got much to work with.
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May 22, 2023 19:20
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Considering how well this is going for Ukraine so far, wouldn't it be smart to launch multiple similar operations across the front?
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May 22, 2023 19:30
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Keisari posted:Considering how well this is going for Ukraine so far, wouldn't it be smart to launch multiple similar operations across the front? Dunno if it would be smart to do it - Russians are now more alert at the border, and you need to plan such endeavours carefully not to end with a fiasco, and the people who are most capable of pulling it off are needed elsewhere right now. Also I wouldn't call it "going well" when we haven't seen anything conclusive yet, occupying a village does nothing to threaten Putin and it can still end in a disaster for the raiding party. But giving the impression that Ukraine could launch more such raids? Yeah that could result in some panic reactions like generals getting fired and morale dropping which would be nice at the eve of a counter-offensive.
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May 22, 2023 19:52
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Nenonen posted:Dunno if it would be smart to do it - Russians are now more alert at the border, and you need to plan such endeavours carefully not to end with a fiasco, and the people who are most capable of pulling it off are needed elsewhere right now. Also I wouldn't call it "going well" when we haven't seen anything conclusive yet, occupying a village does nothing to threaten Putin and it can still end in a disaster for the raiding party. Oh by "going well" I meant as a psy op it's going well. I don't expect them to run all the way to Moscow after all. But good point that this requires quite a bit of planning and can't just be copypasted.
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May 22, 2023 20:05
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Don't know the veracity of this but apparently they have captured a BTR from the border checkpoint and the guy driving it in the video is a former Russian FSB officer. https://twitter.com/jabuttee/status/1660723186940485633
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May 22, 2023 20:27
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fatherboxx posted:So far it got a whole minute of passing attention on the news because it is hard to spin positively Are you sure about that? Check this out. Russia Today posted:AFU Saboteurs fell into the trap of the security forces in the Belgorod region
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May 22, 2023 20:47
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MyMomSaysImKeen posted:This incursion by, "Separatists," that are invading in American hummers will be played ad neuseum on Russian media. Russians will be filled with patriotic fervor as the previous title-holder for second-strongest army in the world is unable to protect its own territory
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May 22, 2023 20:55
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It seems to be that Russia is responding very seriously to this with aviation and grad rockets - so not sure how successful this would be in the long run.
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May 22, 2023 20:59
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WarpedLichen posted:It seems to be that Russia is responding very seriously to this with aviation and grad rockets - so not sure how successful this would be in the long run. Depends on the intent - if they're trying to hold territory for leverage, it probably won't end well. If they're trying to distract and panic Russia's command chain from something else that's about to happen, I think it could be very successful. Rockets and planes here mean rockets and planes missing elsewhere.
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May 22, 2023 21:12
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KillHour posted:Depends on the intent - if they're trying to hold territory for leverage, it probably won't end well. If they're trying to distract and panic Russia's command chain from something else that's about to happen, I think it could be very successful. Rockets and planes here mean rockets and planes missing elsewhere. Yeah this is analogous to checking in chess. Russia absolutely has to put an end to this fast, or it could escalate domestically. And them diverting everything they can muster to counter this can be exploited elsewhere.
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May 22, 2023 21:17
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KillHour posted:Depends on the intent - if they're trying to hold territory for leverage, it probably won't end well. If they're trying to distract and panic Russia's command chain from something else that's about to happen, I think it could be very successful. Rockets and planes here mean rockets and planes missing elsewhere. It could also at least partly be a probing attack to see just how weak Russia’s border defenses are. I would imagine there was a plan to hightail it back across the border if they met stiff resistance.
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May 22, 2023 21:35
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Every helicopter and BTR redirected to Belgorod today is one that is not ready to react to a ukraine counterattack. They could keep making lots of jabs like this which neither us nor Russia knows if they are feints or not. Suddenly, blam, one of many flashpoints is backed by nine battalions.
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May 22, 2023 21:43
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ummel posted:It's bouncing around the "latest updates" articles and such. They're probably working on a larger write up. Front page story now on CNN. https://www.cnn.com 
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May 22, 2023 21:47
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The shitposters and trolls are on their business today: https://www.saintjavelin.com/en-us/search?options%5Bprefix%5D=last&q=belgorod&type=product%2Cpage
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May 22, 2023 22:02
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RUSI reported posted:Tank-on-tank engagements have become relatively rare, but when they occur they usually take place within 1,000 m. Engagement speed has been the determining factor in these clashes. Ukrainian tankers note that one-shot kills are possible if the point between the turret and glacis is hit. Russian explosive reactive armour (ERA), however, has proven highly effective, preventing most anti-tank systems from defeating the tank’s armour.49 Some operators have reported hitting tanks multiple times with barrel-launched ATGMs without knocking them out. Significantly, Ukrainian tankers report that mobility kills against the vehicle’s tracks are also an effective means of removing Russian armour from the field because they usually cause the crew to abandon the vehicle.50 This is because a tank’s mobility is considered the best means of protection against artillery and its survivability is compromised if it is immobilised. As a former armor officer I find this stuff fascinating. ERA being so effective is a bit surprising, but with tank-on-tank engagements being so rare it wouldn't shock me if most tanks are rolling around with a HEAT or HE round in the tube. If you come around a corner and a hostile tank is there, you're just going to shoot what's in the tube. Engagement time is part of US tank gunnery assessments. I wonder if we'll have enough hard data on engagement times required to win that it will change those durations. For all of those feckless pundits in early 2022 prating about "the death of the tank", I hope they read this. I'm not surprised at all that tanks are often taking several hits to disable or destroy (yes, even T-72s and T-64s and T-55s). The continued use of tanks-as-assault-guns give me more appreciation for the US decision to field Mobile Protected Firepower (MPF): essentially a light tank that looks like a baby Abrams. (It's still funny that tankers were posting that, "Congratulations. The US invented the Stug III.")
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May 22, 2023 22:04
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Curious if they mean the hull and turret, or just the actual glacis. I know the drivers port is a weakened zone, but that'd be surprising.
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May 22, 2023 22:18
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Dandywalken posted:Curious if they mean the hull and turret, or just the actual glacis. I know the drivers port is a weakened zone, but that'd be surprising. Glacis is the strongest part of the hull, and also the "this end toward the enemy" part. It would be major news if the side or rear of a T-72 couldn't be penetrated. I'm not sure what to make of the quote. Shortish engagement ranges are to be expected, but then it mentions barrel launched ATGM's which are intended for long range sniping. It sounds like tank on tank engagements are rare and they mostly take place at point blank range, but then there's still enough tank on tank missile engagements to make broad claims??? It sounds almost anecdotal.
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May 22, 2023 22:32
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If you read the full report RUSI calls out this flaw in their research to date, amd the reasons for it. They do mention that they have attempted to limit anecdotal evidence to that which is reported by multiple sources in different operational areas.
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May 22, 2023 22:59
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I think people/internet commentariat as a whole gets a very distorted view of how useful and effective tanks are from the tiny like .0001% of a tank's existence that they actually see in footage of it shortly before it blows up. Ukrainians have been clear for nearly a decade now that tanks are a huge pain in the rear end to deal with and even moderately outdated ones are extremely dangerous to go anywhere near, even with modern AT weapons. Hell, it's notable that even of the ones that you can see documented blowing up, the majority of them are blowing up to 1) unexpected threats (eg Ukraine had a ton of success recently managing to get mines behind Russian tanks and then causing them to retreat into mine fields) 2) getting used for assaults with no protection or cover or defilade or 3) getting hit by cutting edge precision munitions or 4) ambushed by atgms while on the move and otherwise unaware. I'd suggest there's a few other categories (eg AT-mines, strikes on barns tanks are being stored in, etc.) that are by nature not conveniently filmed from several angles. The one thing you see very little of is tanks getting destroyed while being used either from good defensive positions or from the front during assaults. On a related note, there's ample evidence of IFVs and AFVs getting destroyed by all manner of threats, but with tanks the range of threats that appear effective is much smaller and generally is not coming from head on. I need to read that RUSI piece. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:41 on May 22, 2023 |
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May 22, 2023 23:17
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https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/russias-new-nuclear-normalquote:The legitimization of the war by the Russian Orthodox Church is an extension of the years of ecclesiastical support for the Kremlin’s foreign policy gambits and nuclear assertiveness. The patriarch’s wartime sermons have transformed him into something like a national spiritual commissar. Prior to the war, the Kremlin actively portrayed itself as a faith-driven actor to enhance its coercive bargaining. Now, in war, the patriarch’s messianic and apocalyptic rhetoric, occasionally in unison with nuclear threats from the Kremlin, apparently assists Moscow in sending signals that line up with the “madman theory”—persuading adversaries that it is crazy enough to go to nuclear extremes to achieve its aims. The Russian public is not the target audience for this messaging. But inadvertently, the religious-military rhetoric has made nuclear employment more conceivable in the public’s consciousness. Good article, gets straight at the crux of the effects Russia's permanent nuclear posturing has on its society.
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May 22, 2023 23:34
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Reportedly Belarusian dissident Roman Protasevich has been pardoned. https://twitter.com/noelreports/status/1660594329142829057?s=61&t=V-HV35YWq0OSpug3yKk84g I don’t know what to make of it.
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May 22, 2023 23:36
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So has Russia blamed NATO for the incursion into Belgorod yet
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May 23, 2023 00:15
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Sucrose posted:Reportedly Belarusian dissident Roman Protasevich has been pardoned. Some ppl are saying he was pardoned because he sang and other activists and dissidents have been arrested because of his info. Who knows how true anything like this is.
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May 23, 2023 00:21
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Sucrose posted:Reportedly Belarusian dissident Roman Protasevich has been pardoned. He was broken in captivity and even married one of the cops (I think? can't find info right now but I definitely remember how fishy that whole deal was) and has been doing "redemptive" interviews on the regular. Recently proceedings against him were resumed but now he finally got a pardon. fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 00:22
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fatherboxx posted:He was broken in captivity and even married one of the cops and has been doing "redemptive" interviews on the regular. This is the one who was trotted out on state TV shortly after his capture with visible bruises still on his face and wrists, right? That’s a terrible shame to hear.
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May 23, 2023 00:25
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mutata posted:The shitposters and trolls are on their business today: https://www.saintjavelin.com/en-us/search?options%5Bprefix%5D=last&q=belgorod&type=product%2Cpage I don't assume any regions would, but if ever there was a good time to try leaving the Russian Federation, I assume now might be it.
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May 23, 2023 03:40
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The New Yorker should be boycotted for trafficking in insidiously pro-Russian propaganda.quote:https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/05/29/two-weeks-at-the-front-in-ukraine
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May 23, 2023 04:19
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fizzy posted:The New Yorker should be boycotted for trafficking in insidiously pro-Russian propaganda. So this isn't a glowing story about (some parts of) the Ukrainian military but I don't think that necessarily makes it pro Russian propaganda.
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May 23, 2023 05:08
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Care to explain why you think that is pro-Russian propaganda instead of just throwing a wall of text at the thread. The war is very difficult for Ukraine, they were thrown into this and it's taken a huge toll on the country and yes likely resulted in more extreme measures to defend itself for it's very survival. We shouldn't paint a false picture of Ukraine as a flawless and perfect hero that hasn't had to face difficult choices and put a heavy toll on it's population.
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May 23, 2023 05:16
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Popete posted:Care to explain why you think that is pro-Russian propaganda instead of just throwing a wall of text at the thread. They're probably just being smug about dead Ukrainians being reported by a halfway credible publication. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 05:46 on May 23, 2023 |
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May 23, 2023 05:17
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