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Yeah, stuff like Pathbuilder, Wanderer's Guide, Archives of Nethys, et. al. already exist. I get that they're trying to provide a deeper platform experience than those tools offer, but I just don't understand expecting people to pay for this stuff when all the non-lore poo poo is free and easily accessible. If I wanted to be uncharitable, maybe I'd say they're banking off of people not knowing those free options exist. Still, that feels overly conspiratorial compared to what might just be just a weird business miscalculation. Is it mostly the platform and digital character sheet integration that's driving the price? Feels like they're wildly overshooting, if that's the case.
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May 23, 2023 21:46
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Ultimately, I think it's just that it's easy to justify your product being mostly free when it starts as a fan project, and it's hard to justify when you're a business. I'm sure Demiplane just did a cost-benefit analysis and it was better to not have some diehards buy the character builder options than it is to keep a program running indefinitely for free.
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May 23, 2023 22:29
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They do give you a discount on books you already own in PDF form from Paizo, and you can share it with your party like Beyond, but I still just don't see the appeal. Just not enough of a benefit.
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May 23, 2023 22:31
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I was able to get people to the table by saying I had the "Pathfinder version of DND Beyond." And that's worth a lot to me personally. Yes I own all the books, yes I'm a mark.
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May 23, 2023 22:36
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3 Action Economist posted:They do give you a discount on books you already own in PDF form from Paizo, and you can share it with your party like Beyond, but I still just don't see the appeal. Just not enough of a benefit. The discount part is the same deal that roll20 has iirc
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May 23, 2023 22:40
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3 Action Economist posted:https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sibf?Unleash-More-Heroes-Official-Pathfinder-2nd Some of my players asked me to run Crown of the Kobold King whilst one of my other players is busy, which I picked up on Demiplane for pretty much the same as the PDF with Paizo, and it's nice to get an offical copy from Paizo too. But I really can't see any reason to re-buy anything there (and subscribe to share the books) for character building whilst they can just use pathbuilder for free. I'm not likely to want to pick up many more adventures from them either as I'm better off getting one of the prebuilt Foundry campaings from Paizo anyway.
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May 23, 2023 23:00
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Boba Pearl posted:I was able to get people to the table by saying I had the "Pathfinder version of DND Beyond." But you just link pathbuilder and add "and it's free"
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May 24, 2023 00:01
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A Meatslab posted:If I wanted to be uncharitable, maybe I'd say they're banking off of people not knowing those free options exist. If that was the plan they probably wouldn't link to archives of nethys on their official product pages
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May 24, 2023 00:08
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Bottom Liner posted:But you just link pathbuilder and add "and it's free" You're thinking pure math, but all that stupid slide-y bullshit and pictures and stuff is super important to normie DND players. Pathbuilder is more functional, but it's not going to get people to the table in the same way.
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May 24, 2023 00:28
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Hasn't stopped any of the people I've been running games for from jumping in. I've got two campaigns and PFS going at the moment.
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May 24, 2023 00:31
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Yes it is true we are running games for different kinds of people.
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May 24, 2023 00:34
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I guess.
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May 24, 2023 00:35
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Taciturn Tactician posted:If that was the plan they probably wouldn't link to archives of nethys on their official product pages Ah, that's right! My bad! The wonders of closer reading 
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May 24, 2023 00:41
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Bottom Liner posted:But you just link pathbuilder and add "and it's free" As soon as somebody builds a Pathbuilder competitor that actually works well on iOS devices, whoever that is can charge people to rebuy every book if they want and still make money hand over fist. Until then? Good luck I guess. There’s definitely people coming over from 5E that think demiplane with its price tag is somehow a more “official” alternative to Beyond and have been champing at the bit for it, if my occasional conversations on the subject over the last few months have been any indication, but I have no clue how many of them there are.
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May 24, 2023 02:38
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Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.
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May 24, 2023 04:38
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Is the gm sharing of pathbuilder new? How well does it work?
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May 24, 2023 15:12
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Is the gm sharing of pathbuilder new? How well does it work? From the times I've used it, well enough? But I haven't used it extensively
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May 24, 2023 16:51
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Yeah, it's worked well for my group that's playing Abom Vaults. GM yoinked us all out of Pathbuilder and dropped us right into Foundry, zero issues aside from the druid's animal companion.
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May 25, 2023 00:15
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my only foundry complaint is that a lot of thaumaturge features aren't in automatically, it's hardly a big deal but it's still kinda annoying
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May 25, 2023 06:49
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:my only foundry complaint is that a lot of thaumaturge features aren't in automatically, it's hardly a big deal but it's still kinda annoying If you haven't seen it yet, check out https://foundryvtt.com/packages/pf2e-thaum-vuln for some help there.
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May 25, 2023 09:04
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SilverMike posted:If you haven't seen it yet, check out https://foundryvtt.com/packages/pf2e-thaum-vuln for some help there. our next session isn't for a few weeks but I'll try this and report back
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May 25, 2023 10:16
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It works great, there's a Thaumas in my group and he uses it constantly.
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May 25, 2023 11:29
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Are elite encounters kind of a grind at low levels? Our group of 4 level 1 PCs had a fight last night that the DM told us was elite after it took ages to resolve. One of the enemies had an AC of 21 which caused most of our attacks to miss. We flanked it or used feint on most turns to make it flat footed but the 19 AC was still tough to make. Just wondering if our tactics weren't optimal or if this was expected. We did have a monk who joined us for the first time and mostly attacked with a cross bow. I don't know the class well enough to know if he's not using all his tools or not. The others (thaum, magus, and investigator) have been pretty good in using our abilities IMO.
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May 25, 2023 13:28
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Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:Are elite encounters kind of a grind at low levels? Higher level enemies are always a pain to hit, but especially so at first level when you have fewer options, you really want to try to debuff it via spells/tripping/demoralizing/flanking/etc
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May 25, 2023 13:32
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Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:Are elite encounters kind of a grind at low levels? I think we had the same fight and issue a few weeks ago. Or a similar one. Our precision ranger did the bulk of the damage but we just kept rolling badly and didn't have any autohit damage like magic missile. The GM had the enemy just leave after we'd finally gotten it low but whiffed an entire round of combat. It's a running joke now that it is the campaign end boss and will be back for revenge. In case you're behind us in the same adventure, to avoid spoilers, I'll say without details that the big fight of the chapter was over fast in comparison as we had some insane rolls that worked out narratively. Level one can be swingy for sure. bagrada fucked around with this message at 14:04 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 14:01
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bagrada posted:I think we had the same fight and issue a few weeks ago. Or a similar one. Our precision ranger did the bulk of the damage but we just kept rolling badly and didn't have any autohit damage like magic missile. The GM had the enemy just leave after we'd finally gotten it low but whiffed an entire round of combat. It's a running joke now that it is the campaign end boss and will be back for revenge. The fight I was describing was the shifting fox and an oak steward . A lot of our other fights even with three PCs went pretty smoothly, so it just seems like the higher level enemy is tough to deal with at lvl 1.
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May 25, 2023 14:20
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Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:The fight I was describing was the shifting fox and an oak steward . A lot of our other fights even with three PCs went pretty smoothly, so it just seems like the higher level enemy is tough to deal with at lvl 1. Yeah that was the one. We defeated that second opponent almost instantly then the fight just went on and on and on with the first one. We're running 5 PCs, I'm not sure if our GM has adjusted the difficulty any. Our ranger would hit once every other round or so. Our barbarian, psychic and my oracle missed almost every round though I did fling around guidances to the point I got chewed out by a friend for not saving any for the upcoming boss fight. Our champion tried every round to trip it and resorted to crit fishing but missed every time. I could have used my spray of stars on it but thats not much damage especially assuming it probably has a great reflex save. I would have hit a PC or two in the cone, and the curse kicking in would have weakened my other attacks. I probably would have gone ahead and done it anyway had I gotten a final round before it fled.
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May 25, 2023 16:42
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an ac of 21 should be reasonably hittable at level 1. if you get them flat footed with flanking/grapple/prone you're at a +9 so you'll hit on a 12 without MAP, and a demoralize will get you to a 50/50. Bad rolls will make it hard, but it shouldn't be too bad.
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May 25, 2023 16:55
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Higher level enemies are definitely tougher to fight at level 1, because you just don't have as many tools to bring out, and the base number difference is larger in comparison.
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May 25, 2023 17:05
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sugar free jazz posted:an ac of 21 should be reasonably hittable at level 1. if you get them flat footed with flanking/grapple/prone you're at a +9 so you'll hit on a 12 without MAP, and a demoralize will get you to a 50/50. Bad rolls will make it hard, but it shouldn't be too bad. Grapple/prone are going to be even harder to pull off and demoralize is a single-round option. Ranged also aren't going to get flanking. It's doable, but it's not as simple as you make it appear and that's only for 1 swing per PC.
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May 25, 2023 17:09
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Toshimo posted:Grapple/prone are going to be even harder to pull off and demoralize is a single-round option. Ranged also aren't going to get flanking. It's doable, but it's not as simple as you make it appear and that's only for 1 swing per PC. A "single round option" is completely fine when, particularly when you can do it as your third action without penalty. You don't actually know they'll be harder. A Biloko Veteran has an AC21, and a fort DC of 18. If you have +7 athletics it's actually easier to grapple than hit even if you're flanking. A Caligni Stalker has 21 AC, good fort, high reflex, but weak Will, so your demoralize is going to be easy to hit and can set up everyone else right away. A Giant Stag Beetle, also CR4, has actually an AC of 22, but a 19 Reflex, trip is a lot easier. An AC of 21 is difficult but very doable at level 1 and using normal tactics makes it a lot easier. The reason that combat felt hard was the new player monk was apparently mostly shooting a crossbow.
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May 25, 2023 18:54
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They said elite not level 4, which might make a difference.
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May 25, 2023 19:01
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Arivia posted:They said elite not level 4, which might make a difference. how? they said they were level 1 and it has an ac of 21 so i'm picking stuff in that general range that would be a moderately difficult, severe level, solo encounter with an ac of 21 to illustrate that sometimes saves are lower than ac, and you can tactically take advantage of that and the encounter is actually pretty doable. im not sure how applying an elite template to something and it then having a 21 ac matters
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May 25, 2023 21:01
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sugar free jazz posted:The reason that combat felt hard was the new player monk was apparently mostly shooting a crossbow. This would make most fights harder
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May 25, 2023 22:18
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The hardcover Core Rulebook is back in stores.  Anyone know when they are going to reprint the pocket edition? I tried google but didn't get anywhere.
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May 25, 2023 22:21
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With the revised editions coming I wouldn't recommend buying any of the core books ATM. Get a cheap PDF if you need, or just use Nethys for the time being.
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May 25, 2023 22:24
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Facebook Aunt posted:The hardcover Core Rulebook is back in stores. I hope they wait until November to coincide with the remaster.
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May 25, 2023 22:24
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Facebook Aunt posted:The hardcover Core Rulebook is back in stores. the best place to look for this info is paizo's web store - if it's in stock it should also be in stock at other retailers. if it's not in stock, paizo staff will likely discuss when they've ordered the next printing for in the comments to the page.
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May 25, 2023 22:25
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Bottom Liner posted:With the revised editions coming I wouldn't recommend buying any of the core books ATM. Get a cheap PDF if you need, or just use Nethys for the time being. Yeah that's a good point. I got the pdf at the humble bundle. I'm just old and enjoy holding a book sometimes.
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May 25, 2023 22:36
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Is there a good resource I could point the monk towards? He didn't use flurry of blows, ki spells or any stances. I don't know how he built his character, but I'm sure he should have used some of those.
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May 25, 2023 22:46
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