(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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Boris Galerkin posted:I read this wrong at first so I thought it was a meme post by Russian NASA showing off their “volunteer battalion to Uranus the planet”. Didn’t realize the name of the unit was called Uranus until after the video. If Russia wants to invade and claim ownership of Uranus, they can knock themselves out. I mean, there's the obvious joke, but then they can claim some sort of victory and gently caress off.
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May 24, 2023 13:33
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Boris Galerkin posted:I read this wrong at first so I thought it was a meme post by Russian NASA showing off their “volunteer battalion to Uranus the planet”. Didn’t realize the name of the unit was called Uranus until after the video. Uranus as a word has some historical connotations for Russians and the Great Patriotic War  So of course modern Russia has to poo poo all over it by associating it with their little special genocide operation 
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May 24, 2023 13:44
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I've heard about Kremlin goons going into companies for recruits, but I've assumed it was more about "provide x heads that will sign contracts if you want to be in our good graces". Is there some kind of Prigozin-level dude behind Roscosmos that builds his own miliatry unit? Also that last part of movie "For Great Russia". I know the mask fell long time ago, still pretty jarring.
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May 24, 2023 13:50
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alex314 posted:I've heard about Kremlin goons going into companies for recruits, but I've assumed it was more about "provide x heads that will sign contracts if you want to be in our good graces". Is there some kind of Prigozin-level dude behind Roscosmos that builds his own miliatry unit? Rogozin used to be an insane Roskosmos guy with media presence, but he has been gone from that for some time. You are correct on the first point - it is not a PMC or self-managed unit. Most likely they are going to be shipped out to help some existing forces and swiftly die because these are night guards - the Gazprom "PMC", similarly made up from internal recruitment already saw that misfortune. Much like Wagner, they are selling the fantasy of independent, super badass force of loose cannons seen in movies, in reality they will dig trenches and be living bait for artillery. fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 14:08
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Surely they can manage to assign them to protecting important national infrastructure like Plesetsk from saboteurs?
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May 24, 2023 14:13
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fatherboxx posted:Rogozin used to be an insane Roskosmos guy with media presence, but he has been gone from that for some time. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why anyone would volunteer for these positions unless they were voluntold to do so. Being a nightguard for a NASA building seems like a cush job and if they wanted to fight they could have volunteered to the army. What amount of additional money would it take to convince someone to leave your entire life to go die in another country in a war your own country started?
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May 24, 2023 14:22
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Boris Galerkin posted:I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why anyone would volunteer for these positions unless they were voluntold to do so. Being a nightguard for a NASA building seems like a cush job and if they wanted to fight they could have volunteered to the army. What amount of additional money would it take to convince someone to leave your entire life to go die in another country in a war your own country started? "We have less business, and will need to let some people go. If you sign up I promise in one year you will get your job back and also get a promotion. Otherwise look around - noone is hiring. What will it be?" edit: also can add a lot of "Are you a man, or a child? Go and prove yourself, you single sack of poo poo"
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May 24, 2023 14:27
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alex314 posted:"We have less business, and will need to let some people go. If you sign up I promise in one year you will get your job back and also get a promotion. Otherwise look around - noone is hiring. What will it be?" “In 1 month I’ll reapply for my cush security job after Petr here fails to return from his vacation to Ukraine. Otherwise look around, who are you going to hire?” Seems like an easy problem to fix but then again I’m saying this from the comfort of my home. But then again, so are the Russians that are volunteering for these PMC inside a company jobs.
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May 24, 2023 14:37
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Boris Galerkin posted:I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why anyone would volunteer for these positions unless they were voluntold to do so. Being a nightguard for a NASA building seems like a cush job and if they wanted to fight they could have volunteered to the army. What amount of additional money would it take to convince someone to leave your entire life to go die in another country in a war your own country started? Base 200k roubles a month (around 2.5-3k usd) is much more attractive than the regional guard salary of 40-50k (if lucky, thats not a cushy job). Money is the main reason why people go die in Ukraine (unless it is convicts who get pardons signed by President). Survive for half a year, get a wound and you can get a very decent down payment for mortgage or send a kid to study in Moscow university.
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May 24, 2023 14:39
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I think if your organization gets a quota to provide a certain number of bodies, you underestimate the brutality with which Russian authorities will treat you if you refuse to contribute. Good luck getting a job or any benefits for your family with "sabotaged national defense" in your permanent record
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May 24, 2023 14:43
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Boris Galerkin posted:I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around why anyone would volunteer for these positions unless they were voluntold to do so. Being a nightguard for a NASA building seems like a cush job and if they wanted to fight they could have volunteered to the army. What amount of additional money would it take to convince someone to leave your entire life to go die in another country in a war your own country started? Money and lies. It has been what has convinced people do this poo poo since the dawn of time. The US Military is little different they offer these huge signing bonuses, free college and healthcare along with a ton of lies that come from the recruiters. You get people signing up because they are desperate or conned by the recruiter and by the time they realized their mistake it is too late. If you know any former US military member ask them what lies their recruiter told them every single one has at least one.
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May 24, 2023 14:44
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Djarum posted:Money and lies. It has been what has convinced people do this poo poo since the dawn of time. The US Military is little different they offer these huge signing bonuses, free college and healthcare along with a ton of lies that come from the recruiters. You get people signing up because they are desperate or conned by the recruiter and by the time they realized their mistake it is too late. If you know any former US military member ask them what lies their recruiter told them every single one has at least one. "if you join and do the band enlistment, you can pick your duty station" that's what got me.
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May 24, 2023 14:50
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aBagorn posted:"if you join and do the band enlistment, you can pick your duty station" I think the Russians are told stuff like "you'll just get to guard the border with Finland", and then they get shipped off to Bakhmut.
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May 24, 2023 14:53
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Djarum posted:Money and lies. It has been what has convinced people do this poo poo since the dawn of time. The US Military is little different they offer these huge signing bonuses, free college and healthcare along with a ton of lies that come from the recruiters. You get people signing up because they are desperate or conned by the recruiter and by the time they realized their mistake it is too late. If you know any former US military member ask them what lies their recruiter told them every single one has at least one. US recruiters are bad, but the reality is that most enlisted are middle class who want to military bc yeeeehawwww boom boom, not for the benefits. Poor people of this generation remember Fallujah and we want none of it. It's quite a bit different from the russian military
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May 24, 2023 14:54
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:US recruiters are bad, but the reality is that most enlisted are middle class who want to military bc yeeeehawwww boom boom, not for the benefits. Poor people of this generation remember Fallujah and we want none of it. Really, are there stats on income/education of recruits from recent years? Hard to believe that.
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May 24, 2023 14:57
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Yeah I’m mostly talking about Boris the night shift security guard at the Russian nasa research center who gets to go home to his wife and kids every day and eat 3 meals a day. What is his incentive for volunteering into the research center’s PMC to give up his life and go to Ukraine? I mean I guess a 4x increase in salary is quite a bit but in my mind I can’t see anyone volunteering for it, so I guess I was more wondering if these were just people who were voluntold to die, and if so, why didn’t they just quit and find another job (or even the same job, after the other guy that didn’t quit dies and they still need to fill the security guard position).
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May 24, 2023 15:02
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fatherboxx posted:Really, are there stats on income/education of recruits from recent years? Hard to believe that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.br...on-problem/amp/
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May 24, 2023 15:10
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fatherboxx posted:Really, are there stats on income/education of recruits from recent years? Hard to believe that. In very broad strokes, kind of: quote:Most members of the military come from middle-class neighborhoods. The middle three quintiles for household income were overrepresented among enlisted recruits, and the top and bottom quintiles were underrepresented. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/demographics-us-military But really the one of the biggest predictors now is apparently "had a relative who served," not really loving boom-booms: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/us/military-enlistment.html Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 15:14 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 15:11
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah I’m mostly talking about Boris the night shift security guard at the Russian nasa research center who gets to go home to his wife and kids every day and eat 3 meals a day. What is his incentive for volunteering into the research center’s PMC to give up his life and go to Ukraine? I mean I guess a 4x increase in salary is quite a bit but in my mind I can’t see anyone volunteering for it, so I guess I was more wondering if these were just people who were voluntold to die, and if so, why didn’t they just quit and find another job (or even the same job, after the other guy that didn’t quit dies and they still need to fill the security guard position). It's mad that someone would volunteer for a gamble where there's a 50% chance you die a horrible death, 50% chance you get $25000. There must be easier ways to get that amount of money if you're willing to do absolutely anything for it.
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May 24, 2023 15:14
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Boris Galerkin posted:Yeah I’m mostly talking about Boris the night shift security guard at the Russian nasa research center who gets to go home to his wife and kids every day and eat 3 meals a day. What is his incentive for volunteering into the research center’s PMC to give up his life and go to Ukraine? I mean I guess a 4x increase in salary is quite a bit but in my mind I can’t see anyone volunteering for it, so I guess I was more wondering if these were just people who were voluntold to die, and if so, why didn’t they just quit and find another job (or even the same job, after the other guy that didn’t quit dies and they still need to fill the security guard position). i sort of figure that he wakes up one day to find out that he signed, when he has no memory of him signing and the signature looks a lot like his boss's, and his boss's bank account is a little fatter that day too
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May 24, 2023 15:18
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You underestimate how much of a reach Russian State has outside of a couple big cities. I can easily believe that the example Boris security guard could have his wife fired, whole ostracized, kids harrassed by teachers. And that on top of regular visits from Police just by being marked as "non-patriotic and difficult". My friend lived in some small city near Rostov, and most of the jobs were government/state admin adjacent. You would be blacklisted from all of them, and probably have your employeer blacklisted from working with those clients if you found other job. There are also other reasons to sign up, for example military service means all your debts are frozen. It might further your career, especially if you don't know "people". Also as people mentioned people are straight lied to. "We will send you to Vladivostok to guard naval base", etc.
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May 24, 2023 15:20
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Wow, thank you, guess i was fooled by sterotypical "high school dropout from Dead End, Kentucky" image as a core for American military.
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May 24, 2023 15:24
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aBagorn posted:"if you join and do the band enlistment, you can pick your duty station" OddObserver posted:I think the Russians are told stuff like "you'll just get to guard the border with Finland", and then they get shipped off to Bakhmut. alex314 posted:Also as people mentioned people are straight lied to. "We will send you to Vladivostok to guard naval base", etc. To be honest this sounds more like a feature for military recruiting than a bug. I imagine that the people who believe this stuff at face value lack critical thinking skills and isn’t that who you want for enlisted?
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May 24, 2023 15:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:US recruiters are bad, but the reality is that most enlisted are middle class who want to military bc yeeeehawwww boom boom, not for the benefits. Poor people of this generation remember Fallujah and we want none of it. *shrug* I joined for the benefits. I grew up in a complete shithole of a town, that would fit perfectly in any of those "dying Appalachian town" documentaries, that has no future for anyone that stays there. I think by now my high school graduating class is up to 1/3 or 1/2 people who are dead to overdose or in jail mostly for meth. Anyone still left is topping out at poo poo like Dollar General manager or warehouse work until their bodies break and they get tossed aside, only to inevitably increase that first statistic. Military was the only way out so I took it. GI Bill ended up paying a little over $60k for my degree. Depending on the job that's pushing close to two full year's salary and four years not working.
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May 24, 2023 15:27
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Drakhoran posted:Is this kind of vehicle directly helpful on the attack or is it mainly to help prepare defensive positions and pull stuck tanks out of the mud? Dick Ripple posted:The latter. Engineering vehicles are a big asset and you generally do not want to risk losing them. It's used for vehicle recovery and maintenance, such as pulling engines out for overhaul. They are in some ways just as important as engineering vehicles, albeit for different specific reasons: both are fundamentally mobility assets. One of the weaknesses in Russia's task organization is the lack of enough organic vehicle recovery assets such as this one. Ukraine also didn't have enough at the beginning of the war, and likely still doesn't have enough. Djarum posted:Money and lies. It has been what has convinced people do this poo poo since the dawn of time. The US Military is little different they offer these huge signing bonuses, free college and healthcare along with a ton of lies that come from the recruiters. You get people signing up because they are desperate or conned by the recruiter and by the time they realized their mistake it is too late. If you know any former US military member ask them what lies their recruiter told them every single one has at least one. "Your family can see any doctor they want!" The change to Tricare in the late 90's was one of the biggest reasons I left when my five year commitment was complete. Edgar Allen Ho posted:US recruiters are bad, but the reality is that most enlisted are middle class who want to military bc yeeeehawwww boom boom, not for the benefits. Poor people of this generation remember Fallujah and we want none of it. I'd be very surprised if "loves things that go boom" is a major contributor of recruits. It's certainly a factor--particularly in some job categories--but I'd be shocked if it moved the numbers a lot.
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May 24, 2023 16:07
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Boris Galerkin posted:To be honest this sounds more like a feature for military recruiting than a bug. I imagine that the people who believe this stuff at face value lack critical thinking skills and isn’t that who you want for enlisted? wow thanks for the insult i appreciate it show me a case of an 18 year old with good critical thinking skills.
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May 24, 2023 16:16
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https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1661375158693634054 So is the threat to reach Moscow a bluff? How big are the two groups?
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May 24, 2023 16:28
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1661375158693634054 Did you seriously think these groups had the ability to drive on Moscow?
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May 24, 2023 16:29
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Zhanism posted:Did you seriously think these groups had the ability to drive on Moscow? It really depends how many layers of wet cardboard are between them at Moscow, because they might not be able to generate enough momentum to defeat the drag
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May 24, 2023 16:31
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Zhanism posted:Did you seriously think these groups had the ability to drive on Moscow? Well a group was able to get a few drones to get to the Kremlin
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May 24, 2023 16:46
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"Caesar" from LSR and the entire organization of RDK are well-known as being literal nazis, and no, they are not a local coup or storming Moscow, or going to change the course of the war, or anything but be a thorn in the vatnik side, please stop pretending they are good guys storming Belgorod city on their way to Moscow
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May 24, 2023 16:49
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Boris Galerkin posted:To be honest this sounds more like a feature for military recruiting than a bug. I imagine that the people who believe this stuff at face value lack critical thinking skills and isn’t that who you want for enlisted? It's kind of a feature for military recruiting, but ironically the US military is reasonably good at teaching critical thinking, albeit within specific contexts. There's a reason, "You enlist the soldier, and re-enlist the family." Officers, Warrant Officers, and senior Non-commissioned Officers in particular are expected to think critically, to analyze, and, yes, to question.
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May 24, 2023 16:52
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:"Caesar" from LSR and the entire organization of RDK are well-known as being literal nazis, and no, they are not a local coup or storming Moscow, or going to change the course of the war, or anything but be a thorn in the vatnik side, please stop pretending they are good guys storming Belgorod city on their way to Moscow People in general seem very sloppy on difference between cities and oblasts. Half the comments on previous counter-attack make it sound like the Russians controlled the city of Kharkiv proper...
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May 24, 2023 16:55
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1661375158693634054 "Legion" is purely a PR project for making GBS threads up social media and RVC, judging by the raid this week, is less than 100 people strong.
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May 24, 2023 17:16
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tatankatonk posted:Genuine question for those in the thread who are currently against a ceasefire or peace while Russia has illegally occupied/annexed Ukrainian territory - what do you think Ukraine should do if the counteroffensive fails to achieve a significant result? Is there any price in casualties and infrastructure that you would consider too steep for Ukraine to pay? This question assumes two things that are, in fact, not true: 1: that Ukraine is not in charge of determining whether they fight or not (hur hur the West is going to fight to the last Ukrainian amiright) 2: that Russia would negotiate in good faith, presumably because the invasion was primarily out of concern for an oppressed Russian-speaking minority
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May 24, 2023 18:31
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1661375158693634054 i'm afraid they're not actually able to take moscow, but the good new is that i have this here one-of-a-kind shiny rock which is guaranteed to give ukraine victory before christmas. now most people wouldn't be willing to part with such a valuable item, but since i am a generous man, i'm ready to contribute it to the war effort for a modest fee. but this is a limited time offer so you'll have to act fast!
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May 24, 2023 18:35
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I have a hard time believing the Ukrainian government didn't greenlight the raid into Belgorod and I can't see what the upside of it was. Like it feeds into every bullshit narrative Russia has been spewing since this war started and what exactly did it accomplish military?
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May 24, 2023 18:40
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I feel like it completely humiliates Russia, and Putin especially, and exposes the deplorable state of the Russian military and its war effort in Ukraine, but sure.
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May 24, 2023 18:45
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It can also likely force Russia to relocate its more mobile units to an area in Russia near a week defended border.
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May 24, 2023 18:49
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Charliegrs posted:I have a hard time believing the Ukrainian government didn't greenlight the raid into Belgorod and I can't see what the upside of it was. Like it feeds into every bullshit narrative Russia has been spewing since this war started and what exactly did it accomplish military? If I didn't care what the Russian narratives were I might try to pull attention (and troops) away from the front like this. Can't really say what it accomplished until later.
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May 24, 2023 18:51
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