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Orange Devil posted:Other way around. Empire was unplayable garbage because the AI couldn't handle it at all. Like significantly worse than usual in TW games. Napoleon was very much playable and imo fun. Empire had a better elevator pitch imo though so big shame. iirc you could fix the empire ai with some ini tweaks? maybe it had to be a mod. but yaeh they just sorta hosed something up with it that got fixed in napoleon. idk why they never officially fixed it in empire (maybe they did) also i sort of recall some units in either being hosed. like i think some types of cannons were totally hosed in napoleon but not in empire?
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May 24, 2023 20:31
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I know cannons in both games needed a lot of attention cus they'd be happy to just unload into a tiny terrain rise directly in front of them which you hadn't even noticed when placing the unit with your camera all up high in its default battlefield settings. I've never spent time putting the camera at shoulder height of my dudes to figure out what's going on in any other TW at least.
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May 24, 2023 20:37
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Empire's problem was that it was a new engine, the development was rushed, and so the game was buggy and unstable, which nobody likes. It was never fixed lol, they basically threw out Napoleon like it was a patch. It happened to run okay so people were appeased.
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May 24, 2023 20:43
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Some of the NTW mods occasionally pique my interest, La Montee de l'Empire and Napoleonic Total War III, both of which have year-by-year rosters with quite a bit of research. The problem is that the battles are limited in size to those 20 unit cards, 40 with mods, so the scale is all weird, and the campaign is rough compared to modern era TW. The AI really is not up to the task of fighting the Napoleonic Wars without guide rails, and that's really disappointing. Cannons in both games were incredibly frustrating. Even something simple like relocating batteries was never guaranteed to work, especially since the game did weird things once it suffered casualties, with guns, limbers, horses and gunners impossible to control or reorganize.
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May 24, 2023 20:46
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Mister Bates posted:no, and the first major expansion, which will add a bunch of basic features to diplomacy, imperialism, and subject management, systems which currently barely exist in the game, is not due for another year I'll check back in 2-3 years then
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May 24, 2023 21:02
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Orange Devil posted:I know cannons in both games needed a lot of attention cus they'd be happy to just unload into a tiny terrain rise directly in front of them which you hadn't even noticed when placing the unit with your camera all up high in its default battlefield settings.
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May 24, 2023 21:03
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Typo posted:I can't remember if Napoleon had it but one of the funniest features of total war games was where you get to manually aim artillery pieces from 1st person PoV you could do it in fall of the samurai but i never used it since artillery is already accurate enough that learning how to aim was not worth it artillery in fots was very over powered against the ai but due to some bug or something the guns targeted the right edge of a unit instead of the middle so to be the most efficient you had to target a unit with another unit to the right of it
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May 24, 2023 21:17
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Manually aimed FotS artillery could hit significantly beyond its normal max range. My favorite strat was with the Saga clan where I'd use a mix of a traditionalist army behind a reverse slope and the starting unit of modern artillery manually aimed and just deleting any unit that looked like it's capable of putting up an actual fight. As the enemy gets close, I'd retreat the artillery, and then stab stab stab stabbity stab stab stab anything that goes over the crest of the hill.
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May 24, 2023 21:28
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call that frosting the flakes
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May 24, 2023 21:30
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Mister Bates posted:no, and the first major expansion, which will add a bunch of basic features to diplomacy, imperialism, and subject management, systems which currently barely exist in the game, is not due for another year it's going to add foreign investment game will have been out for a year and a half and has no way to promote the development of resource extraction infrastructure in colonies except by directly annexing the land and building the stuff yourself, while it's owned by local, usually native capitalists, who pay their workers well, and since nobody in unincorporated territory pays any taxes but the market costs for goods are the same as in your capitol, this usually results in a higher standard of living in african/south american rubber extraction colonies than in the metropole, which means those colonies will often pull immigrants more than like, NYC. at the same time immigration is only within customs unions & shared markets & immigration pull is from standard of living + employment opportunity, so if you you're a smaller country and join France or the US's customs unions and don't have enough stuff built up to employ people, your country will fully fuckin depopulate down to like 5,000 people left no scramble for africa because it gets totally locked down by abt. 1860 austrohungarian empire has no domestic cultural issues, often will form grossestdeutschland from austria, hungary, Prussia and all of the german minors in like, 1845 ottomans regularly convert all the Balkans to Islam by about 1860, never collapse japan regularly collapses under unemployment as they rarely modernize or open their markets before their pop growth starts to exceed their ability to develop b/c food gets more expensive and farm plantations hire half as many people as the subsistence farms they displace, which causes a radicalism/turmoil spiral that never stabilizes because Japan hasn't unlocked socialism or any labor/welfare laws and can't trade qing china either holds together or is completely conquered by the heavenly kingdom, neither collapse tsarist Russia never collapses the new dlc i guess has a bug where if you're France and Napoleon III has restored the empire, a nude Napoleon III clone will show up and continue to agitate for the restoration of the empire they dropped the ball
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May 24, 2023 21:42
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FirstnameLastname posted:they dropped the ball lol holy poo poo
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May 24, 2023 22:01
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what the gently caress. did an economist sketch out the design of the game systems or what?
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May 24, 2023 22:20
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The foreign investment is probably the biggest capability problem in the game right now; especially when combined with how questionable the ai is at developing its resources it means the only real way to do imperialism for resources is direct conquest and annexation. There's just a lot of numbers in the game and most of them are very wacky, like in theory Austria should have lots of problems with discrimination and they've even got scripted extra lovely landowners but it's still not that hard to work around it
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May 24, 2023 22:28
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so wait is it a paid expansion? jesus christ paradox
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May 24, 2023 22:46
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Cuttlefush posted:so wait is it a paid expansion? Most of the content is a free patch which means the paid expansion is basically like two marginal mechanics and a bunch of flavor events for one country. Whether this is an improvement is left ad an exercise to the reader
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May 24, 2023 22:48
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StashAugustine posted:Most of the content is a free patch which means the paid expansion is basically like two marginal mechanics and a bunch of flavor events for one country. Whether this is an improvement is left ad an exercise to the reader love that eu4 model!
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May 24, 2023 22:49
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StashAugustine posted:Most of the content is a free patch which means the paid expansion is basically like two marginal mechanics and a bunch of flavor events for one country. Whether this is an improvement is left ad an exercise to the reader well at least for stellaris those usually broke thing until the next expansion/patch cycle
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May 24, 2023 22:50
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Hey you know what game has all that? Victoria 2. They should make a sequel to that game
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May 24, 2023 22:51
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Frosted Flake posted:lol holy poo poo it's really bad and it's disappointing because the potential for something really good is there between all of the poo poo it does model or at least abstracts, but then the AI is braindead and the game allows for absurd stuff that doesn't make any sense way too often and inconsistently e.g. as Qing china in 1836 you can put a tarrif on corn imports and you get the Corn Laws journal entry, giving your landholder interest groups a market liberal leader, making the landholders, -all of them-, immediately think free trade and laissez faire economics are a loving imperative. even though your country has like 800 capitalist pops total in your tooling and furniture/clothing factories and like 19 million landholder aristocrats practicing serfdom who would have zero interest in any form of market competition but since the landholders are by far the most powerful interest group in china at the time, and the IG leader determines the entire group's secondary political views & they function as monoliths, you can push freetrade/LF through in 6 months each you can also do this as Persia, or Russia, and they become market liberal paradises overnight because once you get LF+freetrade and stack factories in your market capitol, you give the industrialist bloc so much clout that by the time your lib king dies the landowners are already behind them and you're the #1 GDP in the world, only limited by how much demand the other countries generate by developing then you increase the minimum wage & welfare, push through graduated taxation, worker's co-ops, council rule, planned economy, multiculturalist single party state w/o a revolution or anything  if you do it quickly enough you get so many loyalists from the rapid hyper industrialization that the capitalists just kinda let it happen, petite bourgeoisie never really have much impact because a ton of them are clerks/artisans a bunch of clerk/artisan income is from services instead of a physical resource that can be exported and the demand for services is brokenly low for some reason by the time there's enough development and demand to have and use a large service industry it's so devalued by oversaturation that players will often not use coal or electric lighting or have rail transportation in their urban hubs to create jobs, because they increase the supply of services until they're worthless & don't give a liveable wage people will also de-industrialize and de-automate their production methods later in the game to increase per-industry employment(ditch rail transport in the mines? +5k laborers each one!) as the amount of wood, iron, coal, and oil available on the map, period, let alone with the AI only developing 25% of it by endgame, isn't high enough to fuel the manufacturing industries which you aren't capped on producing that false bottleneck of primary resources ends up leading to game timelines of a ~90 year unbroken, national GDP size construction bubble that collapses as the amount of profitable developments dwindle and you realize you need to find work for the 4 5 million soon-to-be-unemployed construction workers, AND you need to find somewhere to sell the 25% of your GDP that's purely construction goods for your construction industry or those places will all shut down and fire their employees too, and nobody's able to fulfill demand because each one of your states is 10-30x more developed than anyone else's, no matter which country you started as
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May 24, 2023 22:56
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Cuttlefush posted:what the gently caress. did an economist sketch out the design of the game systems or what? 1000%
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May 24, 2023 22:59
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that last bit sounds pretty funny though to be honest
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May 24, 2023 23:01
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i wish i could find a way to push through the progressive laws without having to go through multiple rounds of shooting the landowners (repeatedly)
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May 24, 2023 23:02
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its def a typical paradox release a disaster of a game take 2-3 years to make it a good game and in the meantime release $200 worth of dlc
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May 24, 2023 23:02
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I remember when the game first dropped everyone was crying that Communism was OP in the game
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May 24, 2023 23:06
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FirstnameLastname posted:it's going to add foreign investment South Africa and America colonies are European, not native.  British Raj also. There are immigration events that happen outside of customs unions. It also takes into account state's free arable land and population. So it's mainly designed to drive migration to North America with a ton of arable land and low population density. North Africa is split between Britain and France but severe malaria should still be keeping everyone out of central and south africa.
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May 24, 2023 23:09
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oh my god... the game at least sounds incredible for that kind of nonsense. shoulda call the game Ideology and just run with it
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May 24, 2023 23:10
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My concern with the EU IV model is that by the time I decide Vicky is worth buying, it will be like a $300 buy in, with need-to-have features split in penny packets across tens of DLC. The old expansions had their problems but it sure made mechanics a lot more coherent - they didn't have to be designed to work with all or none of the other DLC features, which ... almost means you could live without them too. Someone on the forums posted about the problems with this approach and how systems don't actually interact, but all of the game design language is lost on me. By comparison, I've really been enjoying Field of Glory II and Medieval. I think their DLC is always worthwhile, but I don't feel like I'm suffering when I wait for one to go on sale before picking it up.
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May 24, 2023 23:13
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I do still feel like I'd rather play vicky 3 than 2 at this point, 2 is also ludicrously broken and ideologically silly and the core industrial building and to a lesser extend politics mechanics in 3 work a lot better imo. The actual biggest failing compared to v2 is that you don't have a railroaded Great War, though I've mostly been playing outside Europe E: vv a lot of that was true a few patches ago yeah, I think even the most recent patch made it so corn laws doesn't make the landowners immediately liberal anymore StashAugustine has issued a correction as of 23:20 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 23:16
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FirstnameLastname posted:e.g. as Qing china in 1836 you can put a tarrif on corn imports and you get the Corn Laws journal entry, giving your landholder interest groups a market liberal leader, making the landholders, -all of them-, immediately think free trade and laissez faire economics are a loving imperative. even though your country has like 800 capitalist pops total in your tooling and furniture/clothing factories and like 19 million landholder aristocrats practicing serfdom who would have zero interest in any form of market competition Corn laws are a generic event that happens to any feudalist tag. Funny enough Japan can't take advantage of it because of isolationism. But being able to force those reforms isn't important, since as a player all of that is mostly interchangeable. You only need it to get rid of serfdom which blocks most other laws and reforms. You can have industrial development and still be dominated by landlords. The multiculturalism part is outright wrong, so interest groups support it at the start. You need to get a leader with a trait that supports it. Same for co-ops and council republic. Loyalists are also super easy to get just from government legitimacy. You can tax your peasants into the ground and still have everyone loyal as a feudal monarch, because the peasants love their Tsar the father.
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May 24, 2023 23:18
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Cuttlefush posted:what the gently caress. did an economist sketch out the design of the game systems or what? It's even better. A lot of the devs are very proud and call it "Paradox's first materialist game". The reddit complaints about landlords have also reached the C-levels of the company, and the executive class is having a witch hunt for communists because they're convinced there's a cabal of communists using Paradox to spread evil communist propaganda. It is just genuinely stunning to me how completely and utterly they missed the point of colonialism. If you play as Indian minor, you end up only focusing on high end goods because that brings the most revenue and there is nothing stopping you, and you become the UK's main manufacturer of weapons\locomotives\etc, while it's the UK that ships raw resources to you.
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May 24, 2023 23:27
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rule the waves iii is very good
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May 24, 2023 23:29
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:It's even better. A lot of the devs are very proud and call it "Paradox's first materialist game". [THIS IS WHAT ECONOMISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE] man i tried to navigate the wiki for a second but there's a stupid rear end animated cookies nag thing that keeps spinning around. wtf. it even seems immune to ublock filters
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May 24, 2023 23:33
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:It's even better. A lot of the devs are very proud and call it "Paradox's first materialist game". The Scandinavian social democracies seem prone to suddenly cracking down on a whiff of socialism eh?
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May 24, 2023 23:36
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I think that's a joke? The latest DLC is all about playing the revolutionary. 
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May 24, 2023 23:38
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oops all wreckers
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May 24, 2023 23:46
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Lostconfused posted:South Africa and America colonies are European, not native. there's one mass immigration event that used to fire away too often and give a big pop up alert, it still fires occasionally but it's pretty much totally random iirc & the only non-market migration - your pops won't migrate INTERNALLY with closed borders, even if there's 30 hiring factories one state away. you can be closed borders with treaty ports scattered all around the world, no Navy, no army, no police force and have no migrants in or out of any of them, its nonsense. w colonial owners i mean the actual pops who profit from stuff, there's no overseas ownership extracting wealth to the metropole, The factories only employ/pay pops in their state, and unincorporated states don't pay taxes, so when an opium plantation or an oil platform goes up, the colony itself becomes wealthier, the only benefit that the overlord has is the resources entering their market there's zero reason to have non-annexed puppet colonies/dominion/protectorates of any kind because you can't build in them and they won't develop their key resources because theyre in your market with access to all of your primary manufacturing resources at the same cost as in your industrial core they also usually have loads of free labor that can get qualifications for skilled industrial work way fast tools and clothes and furniture are where the per-capita money is, so they build tooling clothing and furniture factories instead of the poo poo you actually want from them, steel & lumber gets shipped out of the British isles* & over to like, New Zealand to be made into fancy furniture for the wealthy new Zealander furniture tycoons (*using rail infrastructure all built in Hong Kong because rail transport capacity is market-wide. local avail. infrastructure affects market access but if it's above 0, there's no such thing as time or space or friction once any commodity is held by the Invisible Hand. Linking the us west&east coasts, building the trans-siberian rail, cape to cairo? all meaningless w/r/t any gameplay mechanics, might as well stack 20 railroads in your capital lol) once quinine gets developed by a GP, the interior of Africa & every tropical island, brunei, all of that gets eaten by them rapido they could make it make sense with the right changes, but as-is it's an incomprehensible mess when it comes to historical accuracy, economic simulation, the diplomacy system is hollow (but potentially fixable) the warfare is especially atrocious - you can't control where defenses are garrisoned, can't stockpile arms before a war because 1800s militaries functioned on Just-In-Time logistics, ofc, and also regularly executed several hundred thousand man multipronged amphibious invasions from ports 2500 miles away a fleet of Napoleonic line ships will kill an ironclad dreadnought it can't model the prelude, flashpoint, beginning, middle, end, nor aftermath of WWI - you can't join in to pre-existing wars, you can't demand disarmament, you can't give territory to other nations, you can't create a web of alliances and defensive pacts because the game only allows you to ally ONE country at a time and cobelligerents can't add wargoals every minor colonial conflict between powers through the entire game turns into a fully mobilized full-scale war there's zero economic volatility that isn't player or warfare induced, no booms, no busts, no investment, no interlinking of economic interests outside of trade deals or sharing the same market building the panama or suez canal isn't really useful because you can't control who uses it, there's no tolls, and all it does is let you use slightly less convoys for distant trade deals but you have 25,009 surplus anyways if you built a canal & you don't even need them for intra-market transport because everything teleports you can only build electrical power plants in the azores and use them to power the entire united states iron mined in Ohio and coal from WV gets teleported to steel manufacturing in NYC and that gets teleported to DC to be built into tools that're used in hawaii to cut down trees for a furniture factory in liberia: indistinguishable wrt game mechanics from if they were all in the same state, except for which pops have jobs vacuum economics
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May 24, 2023 23:55
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:It's even better. A lot of the devs are very proud and call it "Paradox's first materialist game". Wait is this real because the reddit posts about hating landlords were fantastic.
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May 25, 2023 00:01
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Cuttlefush posted:jesus christ paradox Thread title Cuttlefush posted:oh my god... Paradox *schniff* is ideology
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May 25, 2023 00:06
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:It's even better. A lot of the devs are very proud and call it "Paradox's first materialist game". when it first came out there was a game breaking bug because all industries would automatically increase laborer wages as much as they could while still making a profit and if you established wage laws, which raised the lowest wages up to the national median, it would cause most business to become unprofitable, go bankrupt and destroy your economy because your endless greed had betrayed the noble Job Creators iirc going command economy also would instabankrupt you because you'd lose all the investment fund dividends from the caps & were forced to subsidize every single industry no matter how profitable it already was
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May 25, 2023 00:10
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FirstnameLastname posted:there's one mass immigration event that used to fire away too often and give a big pop up alert, it still fires occasionally but it's pretty much totally random iirc & the only non-market migration - your pops won't migrate INTERNALLY with closed borders, even if there's 30 hiring factories one state away. you can be closed borders with treaty ports scattered all around the world, no Navy, no army, no police force and have no migrants in or out of any of them, its nonsense. Population migration depends on migration laws. They're mainly there to prevent oppressed ethnic groups from fleeing your oppression. Otherwise migration is a pretty large mechanic to transfer population to underdeveloped low population provinces that contain valuable resources within your market. Colonies are like other paradox vassal tags and pay a percentage of their income to the suzerian. The reason to not annex is reduced infrastructure and efficiency penalties that a newly annexed territory will get. It's also going to be harder to develop based on racial and culture groups involved. The war stuff you posted is just gobbledygook. I'm sure you're right about some stuff, but there's just so much stuff there that's wrong or nonsense that I don't even know where to start. Edit: If by garrisons you mean you can't control which provinces fall within which strategic region, then yes. But you can control most everything else other than that. It's another abstraction thing that paradox does, exactly the same thing happens with trade in Europa Universalis 4. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 00:19 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 00:12
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